Idk I guess it's mostly a combination of that the "EU koreans" aren't among the very best koreans, and that they are not
in korea practicing as much as koreans that stay there.

I mean I like e.g. Stardust and he's good no doubt... but what I do doubt is that we'd see him in Code S anytime soon, or ever.
Naniwa, Stephano and Scarlett (you could argue Huk, Sase, Nerchio, Jinro etc..) has been able to beat really top-tier Koreans (pretty much in that order of magnitude too), and Naniwa also did his code S runs. We have yet to see other foreign players really do a deep run in a big tournament (IEM, MLG, WCS Finals etc) against the stronger Koreans. So well I guess saying that Europeans has "improved" is a huge overstatement.. maybe the average level/lowest level has been lifted a bit.

ps. I know Scarlett and Huk aren't european, but I was more talking about the foreigners vs koreans in general compared to the recent European results

Dracolich70

Denmark3820 Posts

March 29 2014 11:57 GMT

#23

It is like badminton. If you beat one chinese another just pops up. At some point experience will level mechanics, then it sways back.

Both sides learn from each other, so it will be a tug of war. Hard to beat the training regimen they put in while in Korean, coupled with the team help they get. It is still like fulltime pro vs semi pro, where fulltime pro overall always will have the edge.

Josh_Video

Canada798 Posts

March 29 2014 14:41 GMT

#24

I don't know, Snute was talking about how Koreans on EU ladder was helping Europeans train, so i guess it could be that Europeans are getting better.

Or koreans are just slouching and will go and dominate again in a week or two.

Zorkmid

4410 Posts

March 29 2014 19:56 GMT

#25

Euros are mostly having success against the koreans that have been playing outside of Korea for awhile. It's not like any foreigner would even make it into Code S.

lessQQmorePEWPEW

Jamaica921 Posts

March 30 2014 08:17 GMT

#26

I think korean dota teams have a long way to go against EU teams. In general even the worst CIS teams can bring down the topo tear KDL teams so yeah

Greenei

Germany1754 Posts

March 30 2014 09:25 GMT

#27

Statistical anomaly. Move on citizens.

paddyz

Ireland628 Posts

March 30 2014 13:53 GMT

#28

Does Nani really have to come back and do really well in tournaments for people to realise Europeans are capable of beating koreans?, this is not the first time this has happened. Sjow some faith, plz.

parkin

1079 Posts

March 30 2014 16:28 GMT

#29

There's a difference between koreans and koreans. Korean Proleauge players will always beat foreigners that don't play in Proleauge.

TTBest

Germany74 Posts

March 30 2014 19:00 GMT

#30

I dont't think the Europeans as a whole improved. There are just a few players outstanding (Vortix, Welmu) that maybe will take Naniwa's place as the best foreigner. However, i really hope this is going to become a larger trend...

darkscream

Canada2310 Posts

March 31 2014 01:18 GMT

#31

Pfffhahahaha, "european players have improved" my hiney. They're where they always were, by and large competitive but not korean competitive. What has changed is the quality of players filtering down, since the GSL has a larger prize pool and better players.

The koreans in WCS EU are strong but gray in the hair and long in the tooth. While some are even former GSL champions, the majority could barely keep themselves in Code A while in korea, many falling teamless and learning english to make themselves more marketable.

If you take the names of korean players from WCS EU and make a list, it looks like a 2010 GSL bracket - And we all know what has happened to ALL of the champions from that era.. They can't even make it to be called "jobbers" by Tasteless in the GSL.

Lets wait to see some foreigners carve their way into GSL or the WCS Finals again, as far as I'm concerned no one has recently reached the peaks that Idra, Huk, Naniwa, Scarlett etc have, for this very reason. That represents improvement. Beating GSL's B and C teamers doesn't.

Blizzard and the community have placed the GSL, and the Finals, on a pedestal higher than WCS AM and EU. AM and EU are the minor leagues, and that's why you see so many more foreigner victories. The big leagues remain 99% korean, especially with Naniwa taking a step back from the game.

MiniFotToss

China2430 Posts

March 31 2014 09:30 GMT

#32

I guess most of the people think that foreiners are getting more and more upsets against koreans, but so? It's ust the Ro32 and Ro16, in the finals it probably going to be Korean vs korean or korean vs foreigner, besides, when it comes to the big things, like blizzcon and IEM WC, only one foreigner and that guy (Naniwa) has retired, just because Foreigners are getting better in their respective regions does not mean they can go toe-to-toe with top tier koreans, Jaedong ,MC, MMA, Mvp, those guys, you CAN'T really call them top tier anymore, they had their prime time, they had their fame and wealth, and ffs they are still wining stuff, but their time is past, for other players like Soulkey, Rain, sOs, Maru, these guys are the real beasts, and only they can beat each other, I doubt any foreigner can go toe-to-toe with them (Polt might be Captain America but he's still korean so he doesn't count asa foreigner, if your planing on bringing that up due to the fact that he beat Rain, it doesn't count), so even if Vortix or Snute or Welmu and foreigners win against MC, Mvp or Stardust, they still cant beat the top tier koreans that is Rain, Soulkey, Maru, sOs..... So its just a fluke, in the end its always the koreans dominating, just go look at the standings, and did any of you notice that in 2013 all the champions of the Season finals and Global Finals/Blizzcon (Innovation, Bomber, Dear and sOs) are all from the Korea region, proving that really, Koreans will never stop dominating!!!!!!

aeligos

United States172 Posts

March 31 2014 13:59 GMT

#33

Any way to see the data to make an objective comparison between the two regions???

moofang

508 Posts

March 31 2014 16:19 GMT

#34

Think foreigners beating koreans per se don't mean much, I'm sure they do that on the ladder more often than one might think. The Koreans have always mainly dominated in the important elimination rounds of tournaments, so I won't look too closely at foreigner victories unless they're semifinal or at least quarterfinal victories.

hyuu

163 Posts

March 31 2014 16:24 GMT

#35

On March 29 2014 17:32 showBanquo wrote:
Naniwa, Stephano has been able to beat really top-tier Koreans (pretty much in that order of magnitude too)

Hmmm swedish ?

VArsovskiSC

Macedonia563 Posts

March 31 2014 18:02 GMT

#36

It wasn't a fluke, but Koreans will dominate again.. They surely won't be able to win IMO, if they however DO - then really more congratz than ever

We'll have a new Stephano-reborn..

Zerg.Zilla

Hungary5029 Posts

March 31 2014 20:02 GMT

#37

Europe holds!Once again!Sorry Murica...

ThePlagueJG

Sweden1010 Posts

April 01 2014 22:04 GMT

#38

On April 01 2014 01:24 hyuu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hmmm swedish ?

What the problem with the nationality when he's clearly crediting multiple players from different areas? He's not wrong about NaNiwa or Stephano if thats what you mean.

Im curious.

Btw, I think its nice to see all these upsets, but Im not going crazy about it until after EU ro8 is played.

Aries1066

United States18 Posts

April 02 2014 04:24 GMT

#39

Can we get a color coded world map with the ip address of the voter? Would be amusing I think. EU definitely stepping its game up, it's the next step of centralization in gaming outside of Korea.

Kaeljin

Mexico25 Posts

April 02 2014 04:40 GMT

#40

Americans answer = fluke
Europeans answer = improve
Koreans answer = don't now