EPTWhat do you think recent European success against Korean p…
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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horbo
Germany1 Post
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DarkstarTV
Sweden7 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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Maegi
Finland174 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Kompicek
Czech Republic245 Posts
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
On March 27 2014 19:22 Maegi wrote: lol upsets vs shit tier koreans that ran away from korea. It's still a sign of improvement. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Innovation and Dear would know. | ||
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yido
United States350 Posts
Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world. MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents. Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently. But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not. | ||
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di4m0nd
United States297 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:39 yido wrote: We have seen this from Koreans, living outside of Korea. Koreans playing in Korea are still miles ahead of the rest of the world. MC and Jaedong are isolated incidents. Foreigners have gotten better, like Dayshi and Vortix have been impressive recently. But Proleague/GSL Code S players they are not. I believe this guy would like a word with you :D + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://esportsdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/x5VnDRk.jpg) Polt | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
I'll start with the positive. Perhaps, the 3 I named in particular have improved and will go on to ascend to what Naniwa and Scarlett were in 2013, or what Stephano was in his prime. Truly legit guys that probably could crack code S if they worked at it and stayed in Korea. Now the negative, maybe it's just the Koreans they're mainly playing against lately have stagnated. MC, Jjakji, Mvp, MMA, San, Jaedong, Leenock etc can all still be really good when they want to but are not exactly what I consider top-tier atm. In addition, most of them are already pretty accomplished and likely less hungry than someone like, say, Zest who still eagerly yearns for his first big win. All in all, I'm looking at the overall scene and that makes me lean more towards fluke, and wondering why this is even a poll. This is nothing substantial even after the advent of WCS that increases the encounters between EU and Koreans. We've always had a few really good foreigners who likely could go toe to toe with the best on a good day. Yet, the majority of the time Koreans own face. We're just coming off a year where Koreans won every premiere event ffs (granted Scarlett came pretty damn close at the last minute against Jaedong. Canadian though :p). Also, what about WCS AM? There's some upsets there as well. It's not just EU lately, it should really be foreigners in general if we're going to do this kind of poll. | ||
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
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for_the_swarm
United States48 Posts
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On March 28 2014 11:19 jax1492 wrote: So they beat some Koreans ... if they played in KR and not EU they would not make it out of groups. How's WCS AM doing? | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19237 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
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damoonwolf
France98 Posts
This is not a balance whine, just an observation of the recents results. | ||
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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showBanquo
Sweden182 Posts
in korea practicing as much as koreans that stay there. I mean I like e.g. Stardust and he's good no doubt... but what I do doubt is that we'd see him in Code S anytime soon, or ever. Naniwa, Stephano and Scarlett (you could argue Huk, Sase, Nerchio, Jinro etc..) has been able to beat really top-tier Koreans (pretty much in that order of magnitude too), and Naniwa also did his code S runs. We have yet to see other foreign players really do a deep run in a big tournament (IEM, MLG, WCS Finals etc) against the stronger Koreans. So well I guess saying that Europeans has "improved" is a huge overstatement.. maybe the average level/lowest level has been lifted a bit. ps. I know Scarlett and Huk aren't european, but I was more talking about the foreigners vs koreans in general compared to the recent European results | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
Both sides learn from each other, so it will be a tug of war. Hard to beat the training regimen they put in while in Korean, coupled with the team help they get. It is still like fulltime pro vs semi pro, where fulltime pro overall always will have the edge. | ||
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Josh_Video
Canada798 Posts
Or koreans are just slouching and will go and dominate again in a week or two. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
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parkin
1080 Posts
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TTBest
Germany74 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
The koreans in WCS EU are strong but gray in the hair and long in the tooth. While some are even former GSL champions, the majority could barely keep themselves in Code A while in korea, many falling teamless and learning english to make themselves more marketable. If you take the names of korean players from WCS EU and make a list, it looks like a 2010 GSL bracket - And we all know what has happened to ALL of the champions from that era.. They can't even make it to be called "jobbers" by Tasteless in the GSL. Lets wait to see some foreigners carve their way into GSL or the WCS Finals again, as far as I'm concerned no one has recently reached the peaks that Idra, Huk, Naniwa, Scarlett etc have, for this very reason. That represents improvement. Beating GSL's B and C teamers doesn't. Blizzard and the community have placed the GSL, and the Finals, on a pedestal higher than WCS AM and EU. AM and EU are the minor leagues, and that's why you see so many more foreigner victories. The big leagues remain 99% korean, especially with Naniwa taking a step back from the game. | ||
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MiniFotToss
China2430 Posts
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aeligos
United States172 Posts
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moofang
508 Posts
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hyuu
163 Posts
On March 29 2014 17:32 showBanquo wrote: Naniwa, Stephano has been able to beat really top-tier Koreans (pretty much in that order of magnitude too) Hmmm swedish ? | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
We'll have a new Stephano-reborn..  | ||
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
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ThePlagueJG
Sweden1010 Posts
What the problem with the nationality when he's clearly crediting multiple players from different areas? He's not wrong about NaNiwa or Stephano if thats what you mean. Im curious. Btw, I think its nice to see all these upsets, but Im not going crazy about it until after EU ro8 is played. | ||
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Aries1066
United States18 Posts
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Kaeljin
Mexico25 Posts
Europeans answer = improve Koreans answer = don't now | ||
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
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dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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stardog
556 Posts
In general, European ladder grew stronger so many players do or can improve faster. However, Koreans also improve and they've got better ladder and better practice conditions so it should be expected that for them the process is faster. On the other hand, it's easier to reach code A level of play for which foreigners are aspiring, than improve while playing at solid code S level. That's why some catching up is still possible and the aforementioned players definitely made a big step in that direction. I wouldn't dismiss their progress by comparing them with top15 Koreans. It's not fair because no foreigner in history (with possible exception of Stephano and the early Idra/Jinro/Huk period) ever surpassed code A / weak code S level. And only a few foreigners ever had code A skills. | ||
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jekku
Canada1640 Posts
At the same time these koreans who left korea and playing in europe prob dont get the same level of support/top level practice they would in korea so they have prob declined a little bit. Also most of the koreans that euros are beating are players who are on the downhill of their career. It's an interesting question definitely. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
But in major international tournaments (real) Koreans will always dominate. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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RanScream
Korea (South)231 Posts
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On April 12 2014 19:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Well there you have it. Once again, all 3 regions will have a KR champ. Not 1 European in the semis for WCS EU and all ro8 games for Koreans were won by a 3-1 or better. Just seems like once we get to the offline portion we really see the gap again. I mean I guess there were some good results where Europeans were beating Koreans in Europe but I feel like there have always been occasional upsets throughout SC2. Koreans still winning the majority like usual | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
Unless a foreigner rises with the motivation to endure 10h+ sc2 training per day, i dont think we will have a foreigner in the world top50. | ||
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