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On December 10 2013 22:01 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 21:59 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 21:55 Plutarch wrote:
Is it wrong to be paranoid about scum rayne right now? I'm not seeing any crazy omgyouarescumrightnownothingcanchangemymind mentality, so it's always a possibility. Rayn.. why are you so agreeable in this game?? This. Also he isn't spamming or getting drunk. Like clearly nothing he has posted is scummy at all and he is contributing and all that. That is why it is paranoia. It is unjustified fear of rayn being scum right now.,
Then why mention it? Is his play normally the inverse of his actual alignment? I just dove his filter and other that speculating as to your identity I find him quite townish (same as HF).
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On December 10 2013 22:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:00 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 21:55 Plutarch wrote:
Is it wrong to be paranoid about scum rayne right now? Well, I think he's certainly being more productive than he was in GoT Mafia (as Mafia). There he was mostly just distracting and hindering the discussion. I guess his string of posts about my meta is a bit like that, but there are also valid points in that (unlike most of what he talked/spammed about in GoT).I'm still slightly paranoid after GoT, though. Could you elaborate more on that because afaik i did never try to "distract people's read on you" as you seem to be implying here. I was not calling you scum for what i posted. I was calling out people who gave an incorrect meta-read on you.
Well, you didn't actually call me scummy... But you did call me scummy without *really* calling me scummy... Which is more worrying in itself than actually calling me scummy.
On December 10 2013 20:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 13 2013 10:00 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 09:50 jaybrundage wrote:On January 13 2013 09:27 Xatalos wrote:That smilie doesn't really mean anything, but rather look at jay's post before it. On January 13 2013 09:01 jaybrundage wrote:On January 13 2013 08:49 kushm4sta wrote:Wow I was going to try hard this game but then prome said what he said now I have to play like shit just to spite him. ~~~ On January 13 2013 07:08 Dandel Ion wrote:If Kush goes retard in this game I'll just modkill him  I'll have no qualms about that. Define full retard.
I will not play illegally that is all I can promise. The way your entering the thread is terrible your setting the town up for failure. Its hard enough to play mafia when people are trying there best. If your gonna play like shit and it make it intentionally hard to read you I have no problem lynching you. You looking scummy as it is. You can step it up, Or get lynched your call. That's just too aggressive for my taste. Did anyone else react like that to Kushm4sta's (trollish) posting? Why would it be scummy to draw attention without any need? Xatalos I dont know about you. But I dont want someone trolling in a mafia game. Why put up with someones bullshit so he can spite someone. If hes scum then he can just use to get away with scummy shit. I dont want to put up with that. So I rather put a stop to it now. Yeah, his behaviour is anti-town. But is it scummy? Have you ever seen a scum player opening the discussion with something that will make people less opposed to lynching him? On January 13 2013 11:07 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 09:47 kushm4sta wrote:
fyi i dont read megacases, so keep that in mind.
k this is my last intro post.
Next time I post it will be telling you who i think is scum. Why are you even playing this game if you don't want to put in effort? I can't imagine scum playing like that, but that's still not an excuse to play anti-town. On January 13 2013 11:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 11:08 jaybrundage wrote:
@Xalalos
Well Zentor is already defending me lol. I can see him being townie again. Althought i never seen a scummy Zentor.
But as it is so far im leaning town. But regardless i rather not talk about town reads. Anything you think is scummmy as of yet? Well, I haven't seen anything really scummy yet. Mostly I'm concerned with your entrance to the thread and thrawn's lack of engagement. And Kushm4sta's attitude, although it's not actually scummy, but it's still anti-town. On January 13 2013 13:56 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:19 MrZentor wrote:
Well, he was in it, I suppose, but he didn't read the last half. Well, you did make a huge comeback later in the game. But you've posted more stuff so far in this game than during the early game there... On January 13 2013 14:12 Xatalos wrote:
Well... I can actually relate to that kind of thinking. I was under heavy suspicion last game for switching my reads based on others' opinions. It's still scummy though, but on the other hand, it's a blatantly scummy thing to do that actual scum wouldn't do (at least so clearly). Conclusion? Tentatively town, purely based on you doing too many anti-town/scummy things for it to make any sense as scum. It sounds stupid, yeah, but it's actually logical. Playing like that makes you get heavy pressure and you end up most likely claiming scum at some point unless you're an amazing player.
(It's pronounced Ksatalos btw, lol) Here is a series of extremely wishy-washy posts from Dessert Mini mafia from Xatalos. Compare this to what Artanis said and quoted from him and tell me if they are similar or not? This is also ~20% of Xatalos' posts from D1 in Dessert - Sloosh made a case on him based on this and some other things right after those posts. I also looked over Xatalos' posts on Sicilian and NWM and in no posts he uses this "this could be scummy but is it in fact?" he does in this game and Dessert. Here is what JJD said in reference (this game): + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 14:29 JarJarDrinks wrote:FOSing Xatalos. I agree w/ the whole flinging poo analysis. And this post: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:10 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town. Just really seems like he's trying to explain how he's trying to play to his town meta and he's pissed that Artan isn't seeing it that way. I'm also noticing that he's giving alot of his reads a qualifier. A bunch of "this guy is scummy but he could be town too" or vice versa. Check these: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:30 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 Spaghetticus wrote:
Xatalos do you think Artanis' point about you scatter-shotting is a good one? Artanis has a good eye. Maybe I ought to calm down a bit. However, I'm tired of slow first days. It feels good to get something going fast. Do you think my pressure on you is indicative of my alignment? Hard to say. I'd say slightly leaning town based on the fact that you're apparently trying to unravel my alignment. But I think you're a veteran player? How many games have you played? In that sense, it could possibly be almost anything. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:36 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh wait I can just click profile here. 15. OK. Well, it's definitely possible that this is a "play" to get town credit. But then again, the more likely scenario is that you're town and trying to figure out the game. Your experience makes the former option more likely, but still less likely than the later option, I'd say. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:09 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information. On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more? On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit. Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is? I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further. On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question. _____________________________ In regards to the point that you made about cora, I don't think he's "putting himself out there" like you suggest, he said that he couldn't dedicate some time towards the game but would still post actively and got picked up on it and was like OMGNUUWRONGRAWRRR!!!!!! and then didn't discuss why with people further or indicate that he had reads on other people because of what happened. He left the thread and then returned when people started mentioning Xatalos and piggybacked upon that with no new reasoning other than what people had said before. He mentions how people in the thread were piggybacking previously (me, etc.) and had qualms with them but then does the same thing here: On December 10 2013 07:10 Corazon wrote:
I do feel like Slam was right as well. If Xatalos was using good logic and pushing me like a townie, I wouldn't have a problem with him. However, he is using faulty logic on purpose and trying to pass it off as correct when in fact his conclusions only come about because he needs to fake pressure on me. This is contradictary with his previous approach of disliking people that piggybacking and is essentially +1ing another players points. Take this in B2B for example, people had a bad read on him and he DISCUSSED why it was bad: On November 21 2013 01:00 Corazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one". He mentions WHY the case was bad etc etc, discusses it and outlines why he thinks it was bad croming from X player. Where is that here? It was a dissmissal of a case from me and a sheep onto townish consesus Xatalos. __________________________________________ I don't like how these things are most definitely brushed off for simplicity that "I don't think scum do this" when there is a body of evidence that suggests a player does not play like this. Vote Cora for best lynch. These are definitely some good points. It's surely premature to declare Corazon as today's lynch, but it would be a good pick in the current situation. I dislike Artanis's dismissal of Corazon's play as well, but I doubt Artanis and Corazon would be scum together. It would seem risky to make a connection like that. That's WIFOM, though. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think? Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:25 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:20 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think? Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess. Be not dodging the question as askt What do you think? I think you're being suicidal if you're scum, so it's a bit more likely that you're town, but overall somewhat null so far. Does he have any reads he's confident about? Notice the similitaries? Now wtf are you talking about Plutach and kush?
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On December 10 2013 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:02 Grackaroni wrote:On December 10 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 21:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I see you "don't like" Artanis either. Do you think he's less scummy than purple?
What about Corazon?
What's the purpose of this? If you have read my filter and know who's my vote on you'd know the answers to these questions. Also what do you think of Grackaroni's answer to my case on purple? Your vote is on purpletrator, so I'd assume you think he's the scummiest. What I meant to say is: what's your opinion on Artanis and Corazon at the moment? Hmmm. I don't really understand what Grackaroni is saying. Apparently he means to refute your case by saying it's obvious.......... Well, I guess he means that it's just stating the obvious and not much of a case. Weird to randomly point that out though. And why would being obvious make a case "weak", I really wonder. My thoughts on Artanis have not really changed since i last posted them (after the "i don't like him" post). I agree with what Plutarch said about Corazon as i said, i don't think anything else in his posting is scummy. Grackaroni basically does not even address my case because it's not about if purple is clueless or not. That's scummy as hell. That is the entirety of your case. You said he had a shitty reason for a vote/unvote. He thinks that LSB not reading his comment somehow makes LSB scum and that LSB wanting him to reveal his identity is scummy. I agree that his vote is stupid. That is all that you have shown. dumb does not always equal scum. My case on purple is that his interactions with LSB have no intention in proving his towniness or figuring out LSB's alignment. You certainly are misrepresenting the case intentionally or do not understand it.
I don't see how that matters in the slightest. How is that different than picking out LSB's vote or picking out some of Slam's votes and saying the same thing? In fact, just single out his posts of not doing that because he has the really shitty vote which looks bad. That can come from town or scum.
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On December 10 2013 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should i be worried when people call me scum because i have not done anything scummy?
You played like this in persona 4. that is what I am worried about I guess.
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On December 10 2013 22:10 Holyflare wrote:
Well in lxiii the moment I cast some misrepresentation you jumped all over it as a scum tell and wouldn't let down about it. What's changed that you are so compliant with Grack doing it now?
you would need to be more specific.
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On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here.
1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it.
2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him.
3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
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How about we let cora defend himself hey?
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On December 10 2013 22:13 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should i be worried when people call me scum because i have not done anything scummy? You played like this in persona 4. that is what I am worried about I guess.
Afaik i was town in that game and not really, no, i did not play like this.
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On December 10 2013 22:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:13 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should i be worried when people call me scum because i have not done anything scummy? You played like this in persona 4. that is what I am worried about I guess. Afaik i was town in that game and not really, no, i did not play like this.
Wrong game. Trying to find it now.
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On December 03 2013 12:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No worries Bereft i played like shit.
On December 03 2013 12:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I promise i will never be this bad in a mafia game ever.
On December 03 2013 16:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:48 yamato77 wrote:
It's really depressing to me that the two players who need to learn the most are both convinced they did nothing wrong. If you are referring to me i do know exactly what i did wrong.
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Catch 22. Is the game I meant.
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On December 10 2013 22:20 Plutarch wrote:
Catch 22. Is the game I meant.
Well if you think i am playing like in that game you have no worries as i will still lynch scum on D1.
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His Filter
This game is the reason I am paranoid about rayn. He played a top notch scum game and only died cause of the weirdest successful vig shot I have ever seen.
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On December 10 2013 22:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Well if you think i am playing like in that game you have no worries as i will still lynch scum on D1.
lol
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The plot thickens marv, someone will soon find out who you are.
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On December 10 2013 22:22 Grackaroni wrote:
sell your case Rayn.
I think my case is pretty clear and i think you should comment on my conclusions instead of the posts i quote.
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This is the reason scum rayn dies
On July 05 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 08:07 Coagulation wrote:
rayn I shot you cause I dont like you. I knew it. ^_^
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On December 10 2013 17:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The whole evolution of his LSB-read and interactions with him are completely nonsensical, can't possibly achieve anything and do not even have any sort of logic behind them.
Is this your conclusion? Because it sounds an awful lot like you calling somebody scum for being having a dumb vote.
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Plutarch what's the point of your paranoia posts?
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EPT
