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On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much!
Why is Artanis[Xp] town?
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On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town?
Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone.
2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")?
I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how.
3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)?
Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself.
4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)?
It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On December 10 2013 22:55 kushm4sta wrote:
Maybe he does know LSB's alignment?? really inappropriate for anyone to talk about that game at all.
oh my baddd, either way, he shouldn't use that as a reference because it means nothing
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On December 10 2013 22:55 kushm4sta wrote:
Maybe he does know LSB's alignment?? really inappropriate for anyone to talk about that game at all.
That's another point, as i said. You can't even say if you agree/disagree with his meta-read....
How fucking stupid is that?
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On December 10 2013 22:56 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much! Why is Artanis[Xp] town?
hes got a lot of decent scumhunting so far.
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@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On December 10 2013 22:58 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much! Why is Artanis[Xp] town? hes got a lot of decent scumhunting so far.
Ehhh, most of artanis' posts are him defending cora or attacking xata based on his "scum agenda", I don't think there has been much scum hunting tbh.
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just the peopel who have done shit basically! the list is not set in stone or anything. it's very level 1 town reads.
cant really go into detail atm cause i gots shits to do
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On December 10 2013 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:49 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 22:43 Grackaroni wrote:On December 10 2013 22:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Ok then.
##Vote: Raynepelikoneet Are you scumclaiming? Rayn has a shitty vote (target someone for being dumb), when I explain to him that its shitty he makes no effort to convince me and instead tells other people I am scummy for shutting down his dumb case. I won't be surprised if he is scum and if he is town then he can go lose. GRACK how is his case bad in any shape or form? On December 10 2013 13:12 purpletrator wrote:
@xata
My initial read of LSB was that he was scum for throwing a shitty vote down and only following up when rayn pointed it out. He said how he never noticed my offer to reveal my identity, which I didnt think was townie mentality. If he'd seen it and just ignored it, then sure whatever hes just trolling. But to neglect to read the guy your voting, when his post was literally 1 above yours? That seemed messed up to me. On reading his PYP filter he does similar things where he misses key points in peoples posts. I dont want to go into detail because that game is ongoing. This post alone could just be an entire case and it would be fine, I've highlighted the relevant bit for you (yes all of it). Purple states that his vote on LSB was because he was neglecting to read posts about the target he was on. He then justifies his unvote by saying that he has read an ongoing game - where he does NOT know LSB's alignment - and he does the same thing. What logical thought process is that? TL:DRHe does not know LSB's alignment in PYP so how can he unvote based on that game unless he knows his alignment in this one. It's not even a matter of if he knows LSB's alignment in that game. Whatever his alignment in PYP is if he does something he did there in this game it does not make him any alignment here. If he does "miss key points in posts" as town, he could as easily miss them as scum and vice versa. It's a weak ass backpedal from a vote that was weak-ass in the first place (as i clearly pointed out in my case). The whole interaction between purple and LSB does not make any sense because nothing purple says is can't evolve into an alignment indicative answer from LSB and he does not even give a clear read on LSB after the interaction. He is not interested in finding out LSB's alignment -> what's the point of the conversation?
I don't understand why you would reasonably expect somebody who gives an accusation of, "he didn't see my post? Now I know the truth. He is not trolling; he is scum" to make a lot of posts that would be helpful in finding out others alignment.
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On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. Show nested quote +2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. Show nested quote +3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. Show nested quote +4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted):
On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target?
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On December 10 2013 22:58 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much! Why is Artanis[Xp] town? hes got a lot of decent scumhunting so far.
Really? All I see is him piling illogical accusations on me while defending Corazon for weak reasons.
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On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm smelling some OMGUS here.
1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it.
2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him.
3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
don't agree with this quote but I find it pretty strongly town. Points 1 and 2 feel like townie reasoning. My read on him is not super strong though.
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On December 10 2013 23:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. 2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. 3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. 4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how. Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted): Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
Are you seriously saying a first post in which he half contradicts himself is crafted? There was no thought to it at all. He just posted whatever was on his mind then left.
Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target?
Your posting is careless in that you don't care who your target is, as long as it isn't you or other scum.
You had to change target because if you kept sticking to Corazon and didn't address me you'd be screwed. You changed target because you saw the opportunity with thread sentiment changing against me, yes.
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On December 10 2013 23:01 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 22:49 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 22:43 Grackaroni wrote:On December 10 2013 22:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Ok then.
##Vote: Raynepelikoneet Are you scumclaiming? Rayn has a shitty vote (target someone for being dumb), when I explain to him that its shitty he makes no effort to convince me and instead tells other people I am scummy for shutting down his dumb case. I won't be surprised if he is scum and if he is town then he can go lose. GRACK how is his case bad in any shape or form? On December 10 2013 13:12 purpletrator wrote:
@xata
My initial read of LSB was that he was scum for throwing a shitty vote down and only following up when rayn pointed it out. He said how he never noticed my offer to reveal my identity, which I didnt think was townie mentality. If he'd seen it and just ignored it, then sure whatever hes just trolling. But to neglect to read the guy your voting, when his post was literally 1 above yours? That seemed messed up to me. On reading his PYP filter he does similar things where he misses key points in peoples posts. I dont want to go into detail because that game is ongoing. This post alone could just be an entire case and it would be fine, I've highlighted the relevant bit for you (yes all of it). Purple states that his vote on LSB was because he was neglecting to read posts about the target he was on. He then justifies his unvote by saying that he has read an ongoing game - where he does NOT know LSB's alignment - and he does the same thing. What logical thought process is that? TL:DRHe does not know LSB's alignment in PYP so how can he unvote based on that game unless he knows his alignment in this one. It's not even a matter of if he knows LSB's alignment in that game. Whatever his alignment in PYP is if he does something he did there in this game it does not make him any alignment here. If he does "miss key points in posts" as town, he could as easily miss them as scum and vice versa. It's a weak ass backpedal from a vote that was weak-ass in the first place (as i clearly pointed out in my case). The whole interaction between purple and LSB does not make any sense because nothing purple says is can't evolve into an alignment indicative answer from LSB and he does not even give a clear read on LSB after the interaction. He is not interested in finding out LSB's alignment -> what's the point of the conversation? I don't understand why you would reasonably expect somebody who gives an accusation of, "he didn't see my post? Now I know the truth. He is not trolling; he is scum" to make a lot of posts that would be helpful in finding out others alignment.
Because he is a smurf! He's supposed to know how to play this game! People who are supposed to know how to play this game do not as town:
1) Ask questions / make arguments that do not contribute towards scumhunting.
2) Reason their reads / voting / unvoting with something noone is not even allowed to question or with something they are not even allowed to talk about more themselves and that is btw bullshit and non-alignemnt indicative.
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On December 10 2013 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:02 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. 2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. 3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. 4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how. Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted): On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all. Are you seriously saying a first post in which he half contradicts himself is crafted? There was no thought to it at all. He just posted whatever was on his mind then left. Show nested quote +Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target? Your posting is careless in that you don't care who your target is, as long as it isn't you or other scum. You had to change target because if you kept sticking to Corazon and didn't address me you'd be screwed. You changed target because you saw the opportunity with thread sentiment changing against me, yes.
It's crafted in the sense that it's supposed to look like a post unworthy of being remembered (no content, but seems decent enough on a quick look). Just like Mafia like to start the game (often). There's a contradiction in what he says, but I can believe him not noticing it (if he considered that lurkers lurk for the whole game, while he would only lurk for D1).
Clearly I care about the lynch, since I've been pressuring all game. It's the best way to get reactions. Should I just stick with one target like you've done? That's more scummy than changing your opinions and pressuring different players.
How would I be screwed? What? Nobody is pressuring me except you. And nobody else is really pressuring you yet, either.
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rayn, comment on this. Do you think what Artanis is saying makes any sense?
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On December 10 2013 23:19 Xatalos wrote:
rayn, comment on this. Do you think what Artanis is saying makes any sense?
I think what he says about Cora's posting makes sense.
I don't understand you two going against each other because both of yours original reasons were not good imo and now it has turned into an OMGUS war from what it looks like to me. You are both kinda missing the point and arguing about something that's clearly not alignment indicative.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
Shouldn't artanis be trying to convince US on why we should be lynching Xatalos rather than constantly trying to convince Xatalos that he is scummy?
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I don't think the perspective from which he speaks is particularly relevant. It's the same either way.
In fact I'd say it's better this way since it puts on more pressure, where as when you talk about them in the third person you're allowing them to ignore you.
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I mean:
- Artanis saying Xatalos is scum for flinging shit left and right (could also be townie seeking for information)
- Xatalos saying Artanis is scum for his read on Cora and inconsistancies in his read on Xata (when imo the only thing that could be alignment indicative in Cora's posting is what Plutarch pointed out - and while i think Artanis' read on Xata is based on false assumptions that cannot be proven to make him scum as his read makes sense regarding the thought process - it could make Xata scum but impossible to prove)
To me it looks like you are both missing the original point and arguing about something that is already explained by the other one of you and i don't think what you are arguing about makes either of you scum.
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EPT
