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In class. Read up to page 34
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Still want Xatalos lynch, he's squirmed his way out of answering my case and refuses to reveal his thought process behind his town play, other than calling it town play
When I was talking about HF/purple, they were people I would lynch if Xatalos lynch doesn't fall through.
Will explain more later
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On December 11 2013 00:46 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:40 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 00:30 Spaghetticus wrote:
Why do you think it more scummy that I would policy vote scummy play, than someone effortfully attempting to break the too scummy to be scum barrier? The scummy part is what I bolded. Saying that your vote "is not changing at all regardless of anything that comes afterwards." is what's scummy. Like, what if nobody else is voting slam close to the deadline? Are you planning on wasting it and leaving it on him? I don't see the issue. Well... I see it, but I don't see why you see it as such a big deal. It's sort of a minor offense, considering the caliber of misdemeanor hoodie-swaggering around the thread. You keep pussyfooting around my question w/o giving me a direct answer. So I'm gonna say that this is basically you saying: YES, you plan on wasting your vote if slam isn't one of the leading wagons.
Feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting.
I don't understand how you can say that you don't see that as a big deal.
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On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Be less bad please.
How do you expect to convince anyone with this garbage?
So we should take you word for it that not only are you trustworthy, you are able to discern smurfs at a glance, and you deem that this smurf is marv, and you also deem that Marv tunnels you, that he does so unfairly, and we should therefore disregard it? How can you not see that this is too much to swallow?
HF is biased because he thinks you're scummy and doesn't change his vote with the wind?
Artanis can't be scum because you agree with him on something?
You're either making terrible arguments because you're terrible town, or you're just bullshitting to look like you're doing something. Can someone weigh in on how good Corazon is supposed to be? If he's at all capable at mafia I want him hung.
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Is anyone else concerned that Xatalos is taking pains to call his own play townie?
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Spag please read the thread and read the posts HF quotes and see if they really makes me scum or if one point makes me look bad and the rest are him misinterpreting posts to make me look scummy
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EBWOP: They really make me
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On December 11 2013 01:03 Corazon wrote:
Is anyone else concerned that Xatalos is taking pains to call his own play townie?
I am more concerned in you finishing up reading the thread and commenting on things you should comment on / feel are worth commenting.
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Also Spag you should read a game with Marv and I in it and see that what I say is true
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@Rayn
I would but I need to reread things and take notes and I can't do that from phone.
All I see are two people tunneling me and attacking Artanis based on the fact that he is defending me. The rest is either kush bs or random ass banter
I need to reread and I will but for now those were my thoughts
Ok I need to pay attention in math or else I'm gonna fail the final. Be back later
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On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
In class. Read up to page 34
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Still want Xatalos lynch, he's squirmed his way out of answering my case and refuses to reveal his thought process behind his town play, other than calling it town play
When I was talking about HF/purple, they were people I would lynch if Xatalos lynch doesn't fall through.
Will explain more later
What do you mean by "refuses to reveal his thought process"? Ask and I shall answer. Though my thoughts should be clear from the thread.
Not much worth replying to in your earlier case. I can go through it when I get home, I guess.
Holyflare? Really? Why is he scum? This just seems like an OMGUS war by you.
And Artanis is town for agreeing with you... Right..
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On December 11 2013 00:58 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:46 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 00:40 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 00:30 Spaghetticus wrote:
Why do you think it more scummy that I would policy vote scummy play, than someone effortfully attempting to break the too scummy to be scum barrier? The scummy part is what I bolded. Saying that your vote "is not changing at all regardless of anything that comes afterwards." is what's scummy. Like, what if nobody else is voting slam close to the deadline? Are you planning on wasting it and leaving it on him? I don't see the issue. Well... I see it, but I don't see why you see it as such a big deal. It's sort of a minor offense, considering the caliber of misdemeanor hoodie-swaggering around the thread. You keep pussyfooting around my question w/o giving me a direct answer. So I'm gonna say that this is basically you saying: YES, you plan on wasting your vote if slam isn't one of the leading wagons.Feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting. I don't understand how you can say that you don't see that as a big deal.
Your play, you are niggling over and over on a thing that doesn't feel right to you. You are self confident in a non-scum way "lol look at him squirm" since inciting a big fight with a townie is counter productive to scum agenda and I am a big fan of your answer when I asked you why you didn't build up a case you didn't flounder you simply stated that you didn't know what was right, only what was wrong. It suggested someone who was objectively reading cases and, if they had an issue with that case, making the issue known. All in all it seems likely that you are town. If you are scum you are one of the top scum players I've ever seen. So I'm going to assume that ockham had it right and you are town.
+ Show Spoiler +
I plagiarised the above paragraph on the offchance Slam is a lazy town. I don't want him to click the spoiler and thought it less likely if there was more volume to my post, and if it felt like something he'd read before.
FFS. How am I supposed to pressure someone into playing the game if you won't leave me alone? I was posturing to get him to actually do something. Maybe he won't bother clicking the spoiler... He probably will. The vote is a non-issue. Votes don't mean anything until someone actually hangs. If you are town, you should have let me do this then jumped me D2. The amount of posturing bullshit that goes on and you decide to tunnel mine... You have my attention now, this doesn't seem to have been conducted with a townie mind-set.
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On December 11 2013 01:04 Corazon wrote:
Spag please read the thread and read the posts HF quotes and see if they really makes me scum or if one point makes me look bad and the rest are him misinterpreting posts to make me look scummy
Do you really want me to? You know I already think you scummy. You know I'm under the gun to produce a red-read. How do you think this is going to end?
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EBWOP:
Also Cor, I'm not going to go read an entire other game on the offchance you've got mad meta-read skills and I'm able to somehow catch this. Be reasonable. Look at the path you're asking me to take:
1) read other game
2) agree with Cor with any degree of actual certainty that Pluto is Marv
3) agree that Cor's assessment of Marv tunneling him every game unjustly is correct
4) infer that Marv is sticking to his normal meta even though he is on a smurf and has no obligation to do so (and loses the advantage of using a smurf by being so predictable).
5) infer that plutos pressure on you is motivated by a meta-decision rather than an alignment one.
6) ...
7) profit?
Nobody cares if it's a meta-decision. Look at the points and address the argument. He raises legitimate criticism, it seems wise to look into it. If you want to argue that's he's town that is wrong, that's fine. If you want to argue that he's scum that's wrong, fine. Just shut-up about speculative-meta-potshot-bullshit.
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On December 11 2013 01:17 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:58 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 00:46 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 00:40 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 00:30 Spaghetticus wrote:
Why do you think it more scummy that I would policy vote scummy play, than someone effortfully attempting to break the too scummy to be scum barrier? The scummy part is what I bolded. Saying that your vote "is not changing at all regardless of anything that comes afterwards." is what's scummy. Like, what if nobody else is voting slam close to the deadline? Are you planning on wasting it and leaving it on him? I don't see the issue. Well... I see it, but I don't see why you see it as such a big deal. It's sort of a minor offense, considering the caliber of misdemeanor hoodie-swaggering around the thread. You keep pussyfooting around my question w/o giving me a direct answer. So I'm gonna say that this is basically you saying: YES, you plan on wasting your vote if slam isn't one of the leading wagons.Feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting. I don't understand how you can say that you don't see that as a big deal. Your play, you are niggling over and over on a thing that doesn't feel right to you. You are self confident in a non-scum way "lol look at him squirm" since inciting a big fight with a townie is counter productive to scum agenda and I am a big fan of your answer when I asked you why you didn't build up a case you didn't flounder you simply stated that you didn't know what was right, only what was wrong. It suggested someone who was objectively reading cases and, if they had an issue with that case, making the issue known. All in all it seems likely that you are town. If you are scum you are one of the top scum players I've ever seen. So I'm going to assume that ockham had it right and you are town. + Show Spoiler +
I plagiarised the above paragraph on the offchance Slam is a lazy town. I don't want him to click the spoiler and thought it less likely if there was more volume to my post, and if it felt like something he'd read before.
FFS. How am I supposed to pressure someone into playing the game if you won't leave me alone? I was posturing to get him to actually do something. Maybe he won't bother clicking the spoiler... He probably will. The vote is a non-issue. Votes don't mean anything until someone actually hangs. If you are town, you should have let me do this then jumped me D2. The amount of posturing bullshit that goes on and you decide to tunnel mine... You have my attention now, this doesn't seem to have been conducted with a townie mind-set.
OK, but it's unnecessary. If he doesn't stop playing that way. Then he'll get vigged or lynched. Your vote should be enough. The whole thing about not moving it no matter what isn't needed.
The reason I wanted to get you to take a firm stance is because if you're scum, then come deadline time, you have a conveinient excuse to not vote if it doesn't look like your team needs it. And if your vote is needed then you can go ahead and say that you were just "posturing to get [slam] to actually do something".
So sorry if you're town and I ruined your plan but I think it's important to know that you are taking responsibility for where your vote will end up.
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Yes, but if I'm scum I'll be even more accountable once I've actually committed an action like that, and you have more chance of catching me. See? Vigi-shots aren't free. There's a limited number of them and a larger number of useless players.
Let's talk about you.
You have a half page filter.
Ten posts in the game total.
Five of these pertain to my posturing.
I think it's fair to say that the bulk of your contribution is getting me to explain some meaningless D1 play. You're a more experienced player than I, what would your opinion be if someone else had done the same as you have? Would you think them red?
Do you think me red? If so, have you any reason other than the possibility that I was looking to negate my vote?
Do you have any other reads?
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Class ended early. I have 45 minutes to phone post.
@Spag
What argument do I have to answer? His whole case is centered around him twisting my words, as I've said already. You're not reading the thread. Stop your ménage-à-quatre with HF, Xatalos, and Plutarch and start reading the game. You four are ganging up on me because Plutarch twisted my words and you are now attacking Artanis simply because he disagrees and is defending me. Doesn't that scream confirmation bias to anyone?
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Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain
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On December 10 2013 11:46 Corazon wrote:Xalatos Case So I'm still trying to understand the case meta. My newest attempt to get people to read my cases will be to put it in TL;DR and spoiler the proof/bigger arguments. TL;DR to why Xalatos is scum: 1. Has attacked myself, Slam, Kush, purple, Artanis, and rayn. this game. If he was trying to solve the game and was changing his mind, this would be ok. However, he is just throwing baseless accusations and votes around. 2. Using faulty logic to falsely attack me and justifies it as "aggression", then takes pains to point out that his "aggression" is his town meta. 3. Jumped on the bandwagon Plutarch started and was the first to vote for me, sensing a bandwagon forming. Filter dive (the actual case): + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 06:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:07 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active....
....If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all. I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active? Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum? Indeed that's a starting post leaning on the scummy side. 1) Why mention these time restraints right after receiving the role PM rather than... before the game started maybe? 2) Focusing on policy/lurker lynching (the easiest target for Mafia). 3) Overall a pretty careful and and meek post with no content, yet managing to look reasonable on the first glance (somewhat) Looks like this game is starting well. These are really bad reasons to be focusing on me. His first point is WIFOM, his second point shows that he fails to think about why I would say that, and his third post is a blatant lie because of the nature of the beginning of the game. This looks like scum trying to jump on an easy lynch early. On December 10 2013 06:25 Xatalos wrote:May I ask... Where did you disappear to? This is the kind of non-contribution that Mafia love to make. Especially combined with fading to the background right after that. He makes this post right after attacking me. If he was town, he would be focusing on one read and trying to work with me instead of side-tracking himself on Slam. Also, didn't he just say I was scummy for talking about lurkers and non-contributors? He just contradicted himself. On December 10 2013 07:10 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town. This just screams to me of "hey, look how townie I am!". Xalatos is hoping that the town does not understand the difference between aggression and shit-flinging. His logic is bad (which I've proven) and his opinions are completely wrong because he just wants to paint me as scum by twisting the facts. He is trying to justify his shit-flinging by saying that it makes him town and that he does not like slow D1s. It's really suspicious in my eyes. He also made a post where he attacked me for being defensive. It's really hypocritical to say that because I've had to defend myself from the shit-flinging from him and HF. He's just looking for ways to kick me while I'm down and say "hey guys, I have a developed scum read!" when in fact he is just reaching for things to call me scummy. You guys have all seen the posts of him attacking others. He attacked Rayn for sleeping. WTF is that? Why call Rayn (someone who spams in every game he is in) a lurker because he was sleeping? That accomplishes nothing and it just shows he is trying to attack people for the sake of getting town credit. Unlike Xalatos, who will throw his vote around willy-nilly, I'm ready to lynch this guy.
1) None of my accusations have been "baseless". They've all been part of a bigger picture (pressuring players to make the game to focus on scumhunting faster) and backed with reasoning (contentless posting, active lurking, etc.).
2) Falsely attack you...? It was normal pressure for opening like you did (no content despite a somewhat lengthy opening post) and you continued with OMGUS -> disappearing for a long time. You seem to take this very personally. Perhaps you have a guilty conscience.
3) It wasn't really a bandwagon. Plutarch just questioned you a bit, I took it further and put on some real pressure. That's how you get reactions. And you did react with OMGUS on me/Holyflare/Plutarch and then leaving the thread for a long time... Not exactly what I'd expect from a townie.
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On December 11 2013 01:49 Spaghetticus wrote:
Yes, but if I'm scum I'll be even more accountable once I've actually committed an action like that, and you have more chance of catching me. Did you read what I wrote? My whole point was that you could either stick w/ your stance or change it and both would look fine for you. I made you commit ahead of time so you couldn't base your decision on who the main wagons were gonna be @ the deadline.
On December 11 2013 01:49 Spaghetticus wrote:
I think it's fair to say that the bulk of your contribution is getting me to explain some meaningless D1 play. You're a more experienced player than I, what would your opinion be if someone else had done the same as you have? Would you think them red? Silly question. Obviously I don't think my play is scummy.
On December 11 2013 01:49 Spaghetticus wrote:
Do you think me red? If so, have you any reason other than the possibility that I was looking to negate my vote? I think you look better now that you admitted that you're not gonna keep your vote locked.
[B]On December 11 2013 01:49 Spaghetticus wrote:[/B
]Do you have any other reads?
I've posted reads. Is there someone specific you'd like me to comment on?
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Nice word. Inapplicable, but nice. I'm actually responding directly to you, and similarity between our posts must be entirely coincidental + Show Spoiler +or maybe we all perceive a similar reality because there is evidence to support such a view
I haven't talked to or about Xatalos since the start of the game (if at all). Plutarch is think my head may best be removed from my neck, and I've hardly spoken to or about HF other than that he is probably town, and that he should stop pissing around. He might want me dead too? I can't remember.
It's funny the way you keep using these sensational word: "tunnel vision" and "confirmation-bias". I hate being the one to ruin irony by pointing it out, but I haven't attacked Artanis, I simply said it's stupid to think he must be town just because he agrees with you. I also haven't ganged up with anyone, if anything I've left you alone because you already have enough problems. You'd be an easy and acceptable lynch, but since it looks like you might get lynched anyway I've been focusing elsewhere.
You must understand, as I'm only going to say this once more. I'm hardly reading what they say about you. I'm reading your responses. They are giving me scumchills. Stop defending yourself by slinging mud on your assailants as it's not at all relevant to my perspective and it's doing you no favours. All I see is someone who has not done any townwork who is showing no intention of doing anything but making other look more scummy than themselves despite the lack of scumsign. Calm yourself. Use reasoning. Be useful.
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EPT
