EPTAs for better reasons, I think Storr is more scummy than owb in that Storr has done more of the scummy "make easy posts without actually contributing".
Plus I don't like Storr's defenses to his accusations. I actually prefer how owb just admits when he looks scummy (admittedly, you're supposed to follow that up by being helpful to town, so it doesn't help much). But Storr decided to focus on trying to shut down valid accusations and calling his attackers scum, which is far worse imo.
I've already explained why I thought Storr's defenses were bad.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 04 2013 04:54 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Addressing Storr:
I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia.
Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess.
No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy.
Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have.
Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts.
Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now.
If you live, I hope you continue with that.
That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg
I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia.
Addressing Storr:
I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia.
Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess.
No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy.
Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have.
Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts.
Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now.
If you live, I hope you continue with that.
That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg
I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia.
I'm not sure Storr ever addressed the core of my points.
He had this:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 04 2013 03:34 StorrZerg wrote:
Bad pints against myself, and other scummy behavior as well yes.
You realize nearly everyone has asked me to say something, or have said something about me... A bad point your bringing up.
"Took to long" Sorry if my approach to the game is different than yours.... on the note of "taking to long" Yeah lets just disregard half the town now because they have been inactive on Halloween. People live outside of this game cake, and im not one that usually cares to bring my RL into this game. I have reasons for being "inactive" and sometimes other people have pointed out why i am "inactive" How about you stop looking at arbitrary crap that has nothing to do with scum or town. I prefer to post, and do things in the game, rather than explain my inactivity from outside events.
Bad pints against myself, and other scummy behavior as well yes.
You realize nearly everyone has asked me to say something, or have said something about me... A bad point your bringing up.
"Took to long" Sorry if my approach to the game is different than yours.... on the note of "taking to long" Yeah lets just disregard half the town now because they have been inactive on Halloween. People live outside of this game cake, and im not one that usually cares to bring my RL into this game. I have reasons for being "inactive" and sometimes other people have pointed out why i am "inactive" How about you stop looking at arbitrary crap that has nothing to do with scum or town. I prefer to post, and do things in the game, rather than explain my inactivity from outside events.
The inactivity was NOT my accusation; as I'd later pointed out my complaint was TOO MUCH activity without some scumhunting to go with it. Excessive barely-useful and easy activity is the scum move of blending in. And then Storr later lashed out at town again for accusing him of inactivity, but that time he just said he wasn't inactive instead of implying that he had good reasons for inactivity. Inconsistent responses while misrespresenting of an argument against him? Scum trying to look better at all costs.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 04 2013 05:33 StorrZerg wrote:
EBTWOP (meant to click preview)
btw no duh town wins by killing mafia.
And saying right now that im not scum hunting is a blatant lie. You have said, i have taken "too long" to make my reads" I have given an opinion on pretty much every person in this game so far. You are not attacking my reads at all, you are attacking me because i was "slow" to come up with them.
EBTWOP (meant to click preview)
btw no duh town wins by killing mafia.
And saying right now that im not scum hunting is a blatant lie. You have said, i have taken "too long" to make my reads" I have given an opinion on pretty much every person in this game so far. You are not attacking my reads at all, you are attacking me because i was "slow" to come up with them.
Yeah, it's obvious that town needs to kill mafia. That's why Storr wasn't contributing! He was barely hunting mafia! yet he at some point said he was contributing more than I said he was.
Then Storr dismisses my attacks as saying that he was just too slow to come up with reads. --That's bad! Considering that he was definitely active early on, being so slow to come up with reads, and only on major attackers or people he was specifically asked about, seems like he was avoiding having to come up with opinions.
Plus, his comment about "right now" is misdirection: yes, he had begun to post more productively. That does not in any way erase his scumminess from earlier, which is what he seemed to be trying to make us think by brushing past his terrible start (and it's a bit inaccurate to just call it a start, Storr's unhelpfulness lasted pretty long)
Oh, also: there's a difference between people addressing him and him being asked about specific people. He had to be asked about specific people to give reads on them (fairly inconclusive ones at that, iirc). He seemed to imply at one point that he could only address people who had addressed him first. I'll give him that, but it doesn't change the fact that he could and should have formed opinions on people who hadn't been brought to his attention with specific questions or with a case on him.
I can't even accept being bad or not caring enough to look as his excuse. He obviously cares, since he responded so vehemently to attacks on him.
Also:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote:
disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it.
This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so.
Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin.
Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well.
Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town?
He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx?
Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL!
Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him.
No shit you are.
This is at @owb
No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter.
DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting.
disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it.
This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so.
Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin.
Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well.
Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town?
He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx?
Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL!
Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him.
No shit you are.
This is at @owb
No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter.
DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting.
This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points.
And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for.
Also:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote:
disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it.
This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so.
Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin.
Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well.
Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town?
He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx?
Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL!
Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him.
No shit you are.
This is at @owb
No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter.
DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting.
disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it.
This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so.
Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin.
Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well.
Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town?
He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx?
Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL!
Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him.
No shit you are.
This is at @owb
No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter.
DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting.
This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points.
And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for.
##Vote: StorrZerg
Please guys? Can we lynch Storr first? owb is scummy too, but he shouldn't be too troublesome to kill if Storr somehow flips town. Storr feels a lot scummier to me, and I want the highest chance of a scumflip.
