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On September 05 2013 03:57 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote:Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. The post you quoted is just pure WIFOM either way; town trying to trip scum, or scum trying to look like town trying to trip scum. I'd prefer to just ignore it, for now.
I assume WIFOM means useless, but as a general request, can people explain what acronyms mean the first time they use them? Another one was FoL or something, and I don't want to misunderstand anyone just because I misread an acronym. (also mylo/lylo or something.)
And i agree that it's a post which we shouldn't focus on, that's why I would like him to just post what he meant by it ASAP, so we can forget about it. It just forces him to put his cards on the table now, while also preventing it from popping up again later and causing trouble. Given that he seems to be here right now, why not get it out of the way rather then leaving it in the corner to fester.
Gotta go for a while, but I'll be back in a bit.
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On September 05 2013 03:43 LoneMeow wrote:
While we're at it:
Chairman Ray, ignoring myRZeth who hasn't posted even once, who do you think is scum and why? And what do you think about the Umasi/HolyFlare argument?
I am currently working on my scum reads right now, and will post them in a sec.
As for Umasi/HolyFlare, one of the best scum tactics is to have two scum ragging on each other the first day. It monopolizes the discussion preventing productive town discourse, paints them both as very pro town, and in the case that one of them turns mafia, there's a strong argument for the other one being town. Because of this, I am not willing to read them both as town. Right now, there's a possibility of both being scum, both being town, or one being mafia, so lynching one will not give us ANY headway, I say keep them both alive on day 1. Based on who gets lynched and who gets killed by mafia, we may be able to eliminate one of the possibilities.
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On September 05 2013 04:02 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 03:57 LoneMeow wrote:On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote:Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. The post you quoted is just pure WIFOM either way; town trying to trip scum, or scum trying to look like town trying to trip scum. I'd prefer to just ignore it, for now. I assume WIFOM means useless, but as a general request, can people explain what acronyms mean the first time they use them? Another one was FoL or something, and I don't want to misunderstand anyone just because I misread an acronym. (also mylo/lylo or something.) And i agree that it's a post which we shouldn't focus on, that's why I would like him to just post what he meant by it ASAP, so we can forget about it. It just forces him to put his cards on the table now, while also preventing it from popping up again later and causing trouble. Given that he seems to be here right now, why not get it out of the way rather then leaving it in the corner to fester. Gotta go for a while, but I'll be back in a bit.
The post was just an attempt at and easy first day mafia lynch
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On September 05 2013 04:02 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 03:57 LoneMeow wrote:On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote:Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. The post you quoted is just pure WIFOM either way; town trying to trip scum, or scum trying to look like town trying to trip scum. I'd prefer to just ignore it, for now. I assume WIFOM means useless, but as a general request, can people explain what acronyms mean the first time they use them? Another one was FoL or something, and I don't want to misunderstand anyone just because I misread an acronym. (also mylo/lylo or something.) And i agree that it's a post which we shouldn't focus on, that's why I would like him to just post what he meant by it ASAP, so we can forget about it. It just forces him to put his cards on the table now, while also preventing it from popping up again later and causing trouble. Given that he seems to be here right now, why not get it out of the way rather then leaving it in the corner to fester. Gotta go for a while, but I'll be back in a bit.
I use Mafiascum wiki to look up terms I'm not familiar with.
In this case:
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
Basically, you cannot deduce anything useful out of it.
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On September 05 2013 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 03:43 LoneMeow wrote:
While we're at it:
Chairman Ray, ignoring myRZeth who hasn't posted even once, who do you think is scum and why? And what do you think about the Umasi/HolyFlare argument? I am currently working on my scum reads right now, and will post them in a sec. As for Umasi/HolyFlare, one of the best scum tactics is to have two scum ragging on each other the first day. It monopolizes the discussion preventing productive town discourse, paints them both as very pro town, and in the case that one of them turns mafia, there's a strong argument for the other one being town. Because of this, I am not willing to read them both as town. Right now, there's a possibility of both being scum, both being town, or one being mafia, so lynching one will not give us ANY headway, I say keep them both alive on day 1. Based on who gets lynched and who gets killed by mafia, we may be able to eliminate one of the possibilities.
......so in other words, you prefer to ignore the entire thing because one or both of us might be scum or town.
Here, ray, let me say this much
a good scum tactic is to look town. (shocking, I know).
Based on who gets lynched and who gets killed by mafia
I agree with the who gets killed by mafia, kind of. If I get shot, it slightly implicates holyflare because of my read on him.
However, based on who gets LYNCHED?
HOLYFLARE HAS SPECIFICALLY KEPT HIMSELF AWAY FROM ASSOCIATIONS.
CLEARLY.
Like, did you even pay attention to anything? That was the original point, he didn't want to share reads.
That paragraph is pretty null, as in you said little of worth. Why do you think that pressure, however obvious, is counterproductive discourse?
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Also,
WIFOM
I was in class when you asked and didn't get to respond with that comic :<<<
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heavenz post was 'this is what I think and why' and then 'why' is really iffy, but at least he's willing to tell us what he thinks.
Infii, you didn't really address much current in your post, but I'll give you time.
Don’t you think the effect of a lynch threat will be reduced when you always have someone voted? If you want other players to know who you are targetting just write it in this thread for everyone to see.
I obviously do not, but I don't want to bother with this discussion.
I like killerdog for town for being very forthcoming with everything, and I'm waiting on Ray to tell us his reads.
Lonemeow is doing a lot of asking questions, (which I am a fan of), he addresses the lurker thing which I am 100% on board with, but you'll notice he hasn't given opinions on anyone but Holyflare/me and phar (who only posted a useless one liner).
gonna go full lonemeow style;
Lonemeow, Why have you only commented on Holyflare and me? (and phar, with his one liner)
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So I think Killerdog is safe to say town because of his willingness to give reads, scummy or not scummy, on everybody who provided information, because if he was mafia then he could've gave his Mafia buddies away with the reads but that would be a major slip so I'm going to assume that he's town just purely on that like, page long read list. I would base a circle off him if I were trusted but I'm pretty sure I'm not getting into any circles right now.
Now I think that Holy is more iffy in the whole, Umasi/Holy argument seeing as Umasi wants to know more about the group we have before us and he wants more reads on who he should trust (Forgive me if I got that wrong umasi) and who could be trusted. But Holy hasn't pointed any suspicion towards anybody else and he's targeted me this game and a little bit of focus went onto Umasi but I believe that's resolved now. I personally would like to hear more of Holy's reads on others, prefferably his thoughts on Heavenz and Lonemeow.
I've already stated that Umasi seems more town of the pair, and Killer seems town, ummmm sorry I just focused more on them this post because they stood out the most so I read their stuff so I will now go read people individually, feel free to ask me who you want a read on and I will get back to you, I just got home so I might be doing hw for the next hour or so maybe
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I find it ridiculous that people asked for reads within the first 5 hours of the game. That is why I'd like to refrain from it. What is anyone going to say other than a rehash of the previous persons 'reads'? "This guy hasn't posted." "That guy said something stupid." are all things that we most definitely already know because we have eyes and it was literally 1-2 pages of posts when the person asked for them.
It's silly to make circular discussion theories of who may be connected to whom until we actually see somebody flip, save these connections for yourself and don't post them until you have something more substantial. Also do not try and fall into the trap of confirmation bias either as that can make you tunnel in the later stages of the game.
As far as how this game has gone so far, I understand that it is a newbie game and people are heavily weighted by posts on how to play pro town and read mafia posts etc but be careful on doing this too as it is a double edged sword within newbie games. People are new and will post things that will be regarded as scum tells in any normal game, however, these people may also be doing just what they think is right and may end up town. So, instead of trying to point out the person that is scummy, point out a post you have disliked and ask somebody to fully explain it. If they don't have a proper justification of it or they write a post that is substantially lacking then sure, you can lynch them off for being useless later.
What you want to do is elaborate suspicions so that people are forced to talk upon them more than they would like. Take them out of their comfort zones. When people have flipped later on the game these elaborated responses are often the most revealing ones that you can gain information from.
If you don't watch mafia meta games on twitch here MAFIA META: Playing town
Also, in regards to lurkers. Do not vote them if they are not posting. It's a waste of a lynch. A lot of you are discussing how one post from somebody all game implies they are scum but it's just as much reasoning that they could also be vanilla townie and so don't want to play because they can find it boring. They will get modkilled so ignore them till they post.
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On September 05 2013 05:28 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 05 2013 03:43 LoneMeow wrote:
While we're at it:
Chairman Ray, ignoring myRZeth who hasn't posted even once, who do you think is scum and why? And what do you think about the Umasi/HolyFlare argument? I am currently working on my scum reads right now, and will post them in a sec. As for Umasi/HolyFlare, one of the best scum tactics is to have two scum ragging on each other the first day. It monopolizes the discussion preventing productive town discourse, paints them both as very pro town, and in the case that one of them turns mafia, there's a strong argument for the other one being town. Because of this, I am not willing to read them both as town. Right now, there's a possibility of both being scum, both being town, or one being mafia, so lynching one will not give us ANY headway, I say keep them both alive on day 1. Based on who gets lynched and who gets killed by mafia, we may be able to eliminate one of the possibilities. ......so in other words, you prefer to ignore the entire thing because one or both of us might be scum or town. Here, ray, let me say this much a good scum tactic is to look town. (shocking, I know). I agree with the who gets killed by mafia, kind of. If I get shot, it slightly implicates holyflare because of my read on him. However, based on who gets LYNCHED? HOLYFLARE HAS SPECIFICALLY KEPT HIMSELF AWAY FROM ASSOCIATIONS. CLEARLY. Like, did you even pay attention to anything? That was the original point, he didn't want to share reads. That paragraph is pretty null, as in you said little of worth. Why do you think that pressure, however obvious, is counterproductive discourse?
My intention was not to suggest ignoring the entire discussion. My intention was two things: firstly, to the few people suggesting that either you or Holy may be town (or both), I disagree completely and I would like to consider both of you just as much as everyone else. Secondly, your discussion with HolyFlare and everyone else set up a lot of variables and a few equations. This is the best thing to carry into the second round since we have almost enough information to deduce pairs of people who cannot both be mafia. This is why I'm suggesting lynching either you or holyflare first turn is unproductive for town.
I will give my first set of reads. When HolyFlare said that he was withholding his reads, he dug himself an obligation. By the end of this day, he must make a play justifying that he withheld his reads with good reason, or else he's mafia. If we see his posts and decide that there's no reason why he didn't give his reads in the first place, I think he's a good mafia candidate. When you started attacking HolyFlare and threw in a vote, I don't think at that point there was any good indication that HolyFlare is mafia. I think that either both of you are mafia, in which case the discourse was counterproductive for town because you misled everyone, or you are town, in which case you were both pressuring HolyFlare and seeing who would ride the lynch train. This gives me a reason to ease up on the possibility that you are mafia and HolyFlare is town.
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I like that post vel. Is there a reason you want him to talk about heavenz/lonemeow specifically, or was it just 'cuz?
Also, what do you think of Bereft and Blurry?
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Holyflare, stop justifying your viewpoint. I've decided to drop the subject, I think it's ridiculous, I think it's pro-scum, but I'm not going to talk about it anymore for the sake of talking about it.
We've moved on from talking about things for the sake of talking about things and into talking about things for the sake of finding scum. last I've heard, finding scum is not done through policy discussion. If it were done through policy discussion, the policy that was pro-scum is the scum poster, so that'd implicate you!
Which is why it isn't done through policy, because it's possible you're just mistaken.
Ray, I messed up there :| as long as we hold holyflare to the expectation that he will give reads at a time other than the passing of seasons.
However, I doubt anyone would intend to ignore the entire discussion,
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misspost, was still composing the portion to ray, more coming in a sec
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It was personally just 'cuz and Blurry started off by saying "I'm already doing something entirely different from my previous game just because I have a better handle on how its supposed to be played and not because I have a different role" which now that I look at it seems a bit weird. But I can't judge because I haven't seen his last game, and what role he was in his last game. and he started off the whole "Who's your strongest reads right now" conversation as well. Ummm he said things about voicing suspicions one might have and prove innocence, so it was more of a coaching post then anything genuinely useful for me at least. Most of his posts are actually more coaching then a lead to get a read, you know? And then continued to claim you (Umasi) as his strongest town read. But he seems more useful right now in getting you(the player) to make the best decisions as to not cast suspicion where it isn't needed. So he hasn't really put much out there? But he is being helpful, I will get back to you on Bereft.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I find it ridiculous that people can post pages about lurker lynching, their ideas on what people are doing that is town and not town but when I post it then what? It's "let's stop talking about policy bla bla"..... calm down, i'm redirecting conversation to more applicable topics rather than what is going on which is a lot more helpful than shitting all over the post.
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reasonably speaking. You should be using what happened to build reads, compared to saying 'well they could have talked as town or scum so the entire thing is null'
it's still a town trait to talk a lot early game. It's not necessarily TOWN, but it's a town trait.
people are considering us as much as anybody else, no one is giving us a free pass, but it's like 'this was a pretty townie thing to do.'
opinions can change :|
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I don't care if people are considering us, if they are doing that then they are dumb. There are 100x more viable people in this game than us to lynch based on what has happened so far.
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I want to respond to that, holyflare, but I'll specifically hold back, because talking to you about this more is just blatantly counterproductive.
uMasi out.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
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but I'm not going to talk about it anymore for the sake of talking about it.
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EPT
