Newbie Mini Mafia XLVI - Page 36

On August 16 2013 08:55 Alakaslam wrote:

Rrgh

Yes I get it. I will be more concise when unsure and post better cases and stuff. And I know I'm not usually fun to have around at LYLO, so I will try and see if I can change that this game.

However+ Show Spoiler +

This is why please, guys, lynch for info- fine, but when it is clear someone is just playing badly... Lets not hasten to LyLo. (I hate Lylo in case you didn't notice). I think iVLosk! is a great guy to listen to in that case assuming he isn't scum. Doesn't look like scum so far- but skilled scum never do...

He has been helpful however, and I like the point about captain obvious-ing around. If someone asks by all means reply. But let us not waste time clearing up stuff like that, that people should know from reading guides or asking coaches.

So here I am! I'm here off & on for a bit, any questions? I mean, I know it's early but that is kinda my point.

On August 16 2013 12:56 Alakaslam wrote:


Actually it was lynching the spammer- many of the things I said were trying to express my opinions, spamming was me trying to dick around. I promise not to do that anymore except maybe in spoilers if I can't help it.

Therefore I am really glad you laid this out. There may be people like me who just get the juices flowing and go nuts, they will disregard you until they are the scummy one tunneling the wrong guy at Lylo- then they will have to fight not to become stimaddict 2.0, (sorry bout that but u know its true ing one) so like I say- rock and a hard place with "don't spam don't lurk" for me- so gimme a little grace and I will try to help out. For now, I have this:
Ivlosk! - town, he is bamcis for lookin so, especially so early, therefore keep an eye out for even more badass scum play later if I am wrong (and I am wrong often...)
HolyFlare- kinda early. I'm null, in fact, I'm null on everyone but ivlosk! and myself. It's pretty early guys.

"Speak up!" -Seige Tank Driver (selected, Starcraft 2)

Fellows, pleeeze!!

On August 16 2013 23:11 Alakaslam wrote:

Well I can answer this.

So far, I'm liking iVLosk!. If I were still messed up on the lying thing I would have pushed (perhaps even tunneled) DeusXmachina into the ground based on that. That being said, one rolling scum might implicate the other for the same reason. This is highly unlikely, however, based on iVLosk!'s advice & etc.

So like deus, I'm looking for activity from the current "lurkers", if I don't see what I would like to see by the time I wanna see it? Voting into that. Also I'm considering squibbles a bit of a lurker, he may have actually posted, however he only really made one
post and seemingly left. Also, that post was called into suspicion by another player- which will always prick my ears up!

But by his own logic plus lone, and my reply to lone, he's got about 10 hours I guess.

On August 17 2013 08:08 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok at the computer is fun

Look the thread is only actually a few pages long- the game doesn't actually start until page 10. But here is what I notice, and think:

iVLoski may be messing around some- I messed around a lot as town as well, so that's not enough for me but yes, I am aware he could be dangerous scum. I'm Watchin' him and Y'all should too.

But I think your suspicion of him has brought out something interesting Holyflare;

justanothertownie. look at this





K look at this- What are your reads JAT?!? Holyflare has asked you for your reads, this isn't the clearest thing in the world and seems pretty reserved. I mean, I understand, I can be reserved, but make a stand- if you are wrong, or someone points out it doesn't make sense, admit it and move on- But don't sheep! Make a position and defense it. (<3 WhiteRa)

Speaking of which, Yes Holyflare- I will work on my read on Deus in a minute.

On August 19 2013 14:09 Alakaslam wrote:

Hi I'm back

Read Holyflare's filter

But basically I need to help convince town we aren't scum team because I went and was an idiot and got wishy washy

The juices flow

Ok so I voted vlosk because he hasn't been explicitly helpful, and then I remembered my meta impression of him was fallacious...

Then I get the juices of reservation flowing and lo and behold deus is reserved too and I think to myself "I was reps hammer last time and in the event iVLosk is messing around to later be bamcis town he would be a great loss as a mislynch crap crap what we do now" and he voted Xzavier and I remembered HolyFlare and was like "oh yeah" and I was in hurry like 5 minutes from deadline so I just did it was not thinking straight and boom.

So scummy like "ok let's bus vlosk and then not do it lol and since I think he is so bamcis I should just not make sense" or I don't even know what my scum motive for that mistake is.

On August 16 2013 07:29 justanothertownie wrote:
I won't guess anything based on the little I know right now. I kinda like his posts though.

On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote:

Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content.
I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game.

On August 17 2013 07:24 justanothertownie wrote:
Why do you ask me about those 2 specifically?

Ivlosk: I said earlier I liked his first posts. There isn't anything else to say for me right now. No idea about his alignment.

LoneMeow: Sounds reasonable to me. He brought up the policy thing but someone has to start discussion somehow.

On August 17 2013 08:17 justanothertownie wrote:
Null. Whoever has a clear town or scumread on one of those based on what happened until now is suspicious to me.

On August 17 2013 21:19 justanothertownie wrote:

Maybe you should read the context of my post? Alakaslam asked who was around and I answered so he could ask me questions or whatever he had in mind.
Would you mind explaining why doing this instead of lurking is a scumtell to you?

I will be here most of the time until the deadline btw. so if anyone wants to discuss something with me go ahead. I will read some filters right now because I think I caught something on the last pages (have to make sure).

On August 17 2013 22:32 justanothertownie wrote:


I have a question, sir. Why are you pushing these 2 while completely ignoring Xzavier who didn't post anything at all?

On August 17 2013 22:49 justanothertownie wrote:
Well, Squibbles should speak up then.

##Vote: Squibbles

On August 18 2013 02:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Yeah... he is the only one I would vote for besides the fucking afk people.
##Unvote: Squibbles
##Vote: iVLosK!

On August 19 2013 03:14 justanothertownie wrote:
I agree with your reasoning itself, Omni. Deus and Alakaslam look quite scummy with their voting behaviour.
I am not so sure about IVLosk being town - I don't think his careless posting is enough to give him a town read especially because he is a veteran mafia player.
You raise some interesting points about HolyFlare. I will read him again (he was null to me before your case).

On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it.

He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game.
I don't see that at all in this game.

He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down.
He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this:


After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that).

His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum.

What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him.

Then he is suspicious of him:


Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly:

But why don't vote for our townread, right?

Then there is this:

Followed by:

Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting.


I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him.

On August 19 2013 19:46 justanothertownie wrote:
So Deus, you don't like it if I quote you - ok. I don't like to quote such an enormous post anyways.
So here is my answer to you but first:
I thought about the whole thing since yesterday and I will admit that the lynch conclusions alone are not enough to forge a solid read on someone. I got caught up in this because your voting was really stupid even if it wasn't scum motivated. If you read what I said you know that I already mentioned it doesn't make so much sense for scum to voteswitch like that if iVLosk is town. And iVlosk is right that this is kind of an association case and that they are bad.

Still I don't really like how you responded to my case on you and I will tell you why.
Yeah, I quoted a shitton if you want so say it like that but I always explained what's scummy about it if it doesn't speak for itself like your voting pattern. You don't even adress one point of my case directly instead you are saying I am scum for pushing you? Wow, now I am impressed. Thats's the scummy way to "defend" against a case.

You are absolutely right - a townie should change his reads if there is new information but did you really do that? What happened between your vote on iVlosk and your vote on Xzavier that changed your mind and if there is nothing why did you vote for iVLosk in the first place? If you can explain your thought process through yesterday to me instead of just claiming there is no way scum would do that I would consider changing my read on you. Also please explain to me why you didn't know it was plurality lynch when it was mentioned several times before the lynch (did you read the thread at all?).
So far I see your case on me is that I am agreeing with people on things + OMGUS. Yeah, great case.

Other than that:
I am suspicious of Omni myself. He is obviously right about me but if I understand him correctly he obsed before he replaced so it is easy to know who looks townie to people and who doesn't and scum likes to give townreads. It is easy for them to give strong reads because they know who is town and who isn't.
But what really gets me thinking about him is his reasoning. He doesn't even really consider iVLosk to be scum and still insists on you or slam being scum and I don't follow that.
There still is only one alive player who I really have a considerable townread on and it's not him.

I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it.
The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him.
It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw.

I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it.
The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him.
It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw.

On August 19 2013 20:08 justanothertownie wrote:

Also I am still waiting for this.

On August 20 2013 01:14 justanothertownie wrote:
For now it is just a question I want answered.

On August 20 2013 01:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Just post the whole thing HolyFlare.

Omni it is important dammit. I don't see any scum motivation behind this voteswitch if iVLosk isn't scum Newbie mistake or not.

On August 20 2013 02:33 justanothertownie wrote:
IVLosk since you are here:

On August 20 2013 02:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, well you could try to convince the people who want you lynched by showing them a scummier target. If you think thats Deus you should maybe raise some points against him.

On August 20 2013 03:10 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok.

Omni I would like you to make a summarized post on why you think Deus is scum. Try to stick to why scum Deus would do something instead of just pointing out contradictions please.

On August 20 2013 03:49 justanothertownie wrote:
I feel so alone here...

HolyFlare would you do us a favor and post the rest of your information if you have the time?
What's with the other people - Lone, any input? Also Deus has gone mia again...

On August 20 2013 04:11 justanothertownie wrote:
This game has just gotten way more complicated for me.

When you are finished defending yourself give some reads please, Deus.

On August 16 2013 05:14 DeusXmachina wrote:


If you have a weak scum read on someone and they lie, well that might be evidence against them. I would try to understand the intentions behind the lie. Not crazy about the lynch liars policy.

I don't know how to define lurking, but people who are being useless are equally as bad as lurkers. In fact, in some situations, I think spammers can be more detrimental to town than lurkers. I equate non-contribution to scum. I am glad you brought this up. I was thinking about this a lot in my last game.



Well this is a newb game. Hopefully players can read some of the initial policy and learn what not to do. Lynching people who say stupid stuff got me into a lot of shit my last game. That being said, I am all for aggressive play and doing whatever it takes to weed out scum.

On August 17 2013 09:38 DeusXmachina wrote:
I am growing suspicious of iV. The way he handled holy's pressure seems scummy. He seemed more interested in discrediting Holy than actually contributing.

+ Show Spoiler +

This is a good example. Attacks holy and contributes nothing to town.

On August 17 2013 13:36 DeusXmachina wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I went back and read Squibb's posts and one line stuck out to me. This seems overly defensive. Slam passively called him a lurker but did not pursue it. There was not any real suspicion on Squibbs, yet he felt it necessary to defend himself. Squibb's could you elaborate on why you felt it was necessary to preemptively defend yourself, please.

On August 17 2013 13:55 DeusXmachina wrote:
Last thing before I go to bed.

I thought I would post my thoughts on day 1 so far.

I peg iV for town because he seems aggressive, and antagonistic at times, and to me these are definitely town traits. In addition, I believe Slam is town because he is trying to promote dialog and cut down on spam.
For example,
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
And finally, I like Holy for town, only slightly, because he was the first one to get some solid discussion going, other than the policy chat.

That leaves 5 other people. Of which my favorite targets for scum and lynching day 1 are xzavier, reps, and squibbs. These lurkers on hindering discussion, they are not putting forth new ideas, and they are not scum hunting. I will continue my firm stance on this, lurking is scummy.

Reps why did you poke in today but not really contribute? Xzavier why are you not posting?

On August 18 2013 02:48 DeusXmachina wrote:
[b]##Vote: iVLosK!

On August 19 2013 14:23 DeusXmachina wrote:
So here it is, like promised, my long post. My so much writing that some of you may not read this post.

Overview:

I. Introduction
II. Day 1 Voting
III. Omni, iV, and Holy
IV. Lone/JAT
V. Slam
V. Final thoughts

I. Introduction

To prepare for this post I went back and reread the entire game. In addition I studied filters. The reasoning behind this is simple, my early game reads were weak, almost non-existent, and I wanted to start fresh and unbiased. In this post I will go over all my town reads and more importantly my scum reads. I tried to base my reads on a variety of factors. Even if they are not entirely accurate, they are well thought out and will illicit responses.

II. Day 1 Voting

It is almost comically to see everyone so caught up on day 1 Xzavier voting. Right off the bat I will say that the day 1 voting catastrophe is a perfect opportunity for scum to mislead town. Furthermore, it is irrelevant to scum hunting, therefor any analysis based off of day 1 votes is useless, and possibly scummy. I will explain both of these points.

Why is the day 1 voting catastrophe irrelevant to scum hunting? Well, to begin, look at the candidates. We had iV, Squibbles, reps, and Xzavier. Two of these candidates we know to be town, xzavier and reps, and the other two were arguable in that we did not know if they were scum or town. The fact of the matter is, before the day 1 lynch there was no clear scum favorite. Okay, that's the setup. Point 1: It would be a huge misstep for scum to vote xzavier last minute. Why would scum a) put themselves under so much scrutiny by switching votes last minute and b) take their vote off of a controversial lynch target? It would be absolutely horrible play by scum. At the time several people had what I would call a weak scum read on iV. So what do you think, that between slam, holy, and myself one of us was trying to protect a fellow scum? HA! That's ludicrous.The biggest advocates of scum reads based on the Xzavier lynch aren't even convinced iV is scum. Furthermore, if in light of new information we find out that iV is scum, wouldn't that reflect poorly on the people who didn't vote for him? The whole argument that scum voted for xzavier is bs. Of the 4 potential candidates for lynching its likely that three of them are town. It is just as likely that scum voted for Squibbles, or scum voted for iV. So here is thing. My vote on xzavier is because I genuinely thought he was the best candidate. I did not believe iV was scum, and I was neutral on Squibbs. To me, it genuinely seems like slam was in the same boat. I cannot speak for holy.

If I have lost you, ill reiterate, simple and sweet: Interpreting a vote on xzavier as scummy is asinine. It is a terrible basis for a scum read. And most importantly the day 1 lynching catastrophe is a perfect opportunity for scum to lead town, by targeting the wrong people, by building cases on the wrong people. And for this, I apologize. I should have know better than to let something like this happen.

Quickly, last thing, why the hell are people looking at my meta and saying, "oh he is not as aggressive as last game, that's scummy". We had a discussion on meta during policy chat and came to the conclusion that is not very useful in newb games. Furthermore, how much do you have to fucking compare? 2 games, of course I am not going to play the exact same in my only two games. Which brings me to an interesting point: that is similar to one of the arguments against iV. Might be scummy to make that argument, or bad town.

II. Omni, iV, and Holy

There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other? I wanted to talk about them together, to compare mentalities, contributions, etc. Furthermore, I think that it is very likely that 1 is scum, and is attacking/being attacked with scum motives. So let's begin.

Omni
I had a neutral read on Squibbles so that does not affect my read on Omni. The first thing he does upon entering the game is post some quick, poorly thought out scum and town reads. He makes a really poor case against me initially, more on that later.

+ Show Spoiler +

So what does he do? Jumps on the Xzavier vote fuck-up train. In a way, he mimics Koshi, but doesn't really offer anything new to the table. If I was scum I would do exactly what he is doing, use the day 1 lynch opportunity, and come in loud and big to appear active and town.

After that he has a couple posts that target holy, ending in a case against holy, then drops holy.

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

It's possible that Omni begins pushing a lynch on Holy, using the voting catastrophe, and drops it when it doesn't seem to be working.

There is a little tiff between these two. So i ask myself, would scum bus each other in this way? Unlikely. So it's safe to say both are not scum. So from here I tried to look at who is pushing a case for the wrong reasons? Is holy even pushing a case? Is Omni being genuine? Ill answer these questions.

Holy
Here is Holy's side of the argument:

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

and a few others. Here is the thing. Holy's defense is strong, and it seems like a town defense. He did bring up good points. Holy was the one to get real discussion going day 1. Holy was the first one to show real aggression. Holy built a decent case against iV based othe information he had. But is that proof? I wouldn't say so. Holy didn't vote iV despite attacking him. Holy went to great lenths to defend himself, and Holy has not really contributed that much post day 1. As you can see there is 2 sides to the coin.

Back to Omni. What upsets me about Omni is he does have some good points. Furthermore, he has been one of the most active members considering he only joined us a short while ago. But a feel like like he is building cases for all the wrong reasons, and I can't shake a scum vibe from him, but he seems genuine.

All things considered, It is possible that both are town, and simply misguided in their efforts.

iV
So what about iV? Well iV is someone who I will watch closely. I keep going back to his antagonistic behavior. That and he doesnt seem to give a shit what is said about him. I admit that is a weak reason to call him town, but it's something to go on. It could be a damn good poker face, so with that in mind I will keep my eye on him.

On August 19 2013 14:23 DeusXmachina wrote:
So the questions I want answered:
Holy:
1. What are your reads, and why have you not been contribution to the town after day 1?
2. Why did you spend so much effort defending yourself?
3. Do you think Omni is scummy?
4. Are you dropping the case against iV? If so why?

Omni
1. Why can you not come up with better reasons to suspect someone?
2. Why push hard against Holy and drop him?
3. How are you still hung up on the Xzavier vote being a reason to suspect someone?

In conclusion:
Holy: Slightly Town. Because of his initial aggression and contribution to town. Because if he is pushing an agenda he is doing a terrible job, by not contributing post day 1 lynch. Still wary of his actions.
Omni: Scum. Seems to plausibly be pushing an agenda. Weak reads. Wary of his seemingly genuine contributions.
iV: Neutral. Antagonistic grump who seems to be doing his own thing.

IV. Lone and JAT

JAT
Why the hell do people have a town read on JAT? Lets look at what he has done so far. Where are his noticeable contributions? How can anyone be convinced that asking questions/giving advice is strong town. I think that reflects very poorly on Omni. Omni claims his strongest town read is JAT. W T F. Go filter dive this guy and look how many times he says, "I agree with that" or "I can't disagree there". It's silly.

Here is his first big post, and first case against someone:

+ Show Spoiler +

First thing of note: He quotes a shit ton but doesnt give that much explanation. Weak case.
Second thing of note: He argues that I am scummy because of my inconsistency. Let me just make something clear. Why is that scummy? Shouldn't town BE inconsistent. Reads are constantly changing, new information constantly surfacing, the game is fucking changing. Hell yes I am going to be inconsistent at time, especially at the beginning of the game. Weak weak weak argument.
Remeber when I said scum will use the xzavier lynch as an opportunity to push and agenda? Well this is it folks. Targets me because I have come under recent suspicions, and makes a really shitty argument. His first real stance comes after the xzavier lynch on an easy target.
JAT mimics other people. He bandwagons. This kid is scum. I can feel it. Main target for pressure these day 2.

Lone
Although I cannot say this with complete confidence, I believe Lone to be town. He asked some good questions, and seems genuinely invested in promoting discussion. Furthermore, he is playing moderately aggressive, is pointing fingers (like his case against JAT), and he is bold in his votes. I would like to hear in-depth analysis from Lone. I would like to see real town effort.

Conclusion:
JAT: Scum. This guys filter is BS. Not contributing. Weak stance. Bandwagon. Using Xzavier lynch to push agenda. Low key.
Lone: Slightly town because of noticeable contributions and efforts to further discussion.

V. Slam

Slam is a weird one. He is goofy and hard to follow. I have a very tough time reading him. I don't think slam is scum but I will look into him in the days to come. He seems to be trying to improve his play, as Holy mentioned, and I think that is pro town. He is asking good questions, has actually taken stronger stances this game than I have seen in the past, and seemed genuinely confused about the iV situation.

VI. Final thoughts

I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni. I plan on looking into Omni more in the days to come. I would like him to answer my questions. Because I am much more confident in JAT being scum I will vote him instead of Omni for now. We will see how things play out.

-Sincerly
A devoted townie you loons!

##Vote Justanothertownie

On August 20 2013 04:27 DeusXmachina wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I don't say town should be allowed to lie. I say it is unlikely that you will catch scum lying, so I would rather focus on lurkers over liars.

I don't really understand what you are saying in the next paragraph. I was trying to pressure lurkers.

At that time no one had really contributed much, except for holy, so that wasn't a scummy tell in my mind. Holy didn't clearly communicate his main reason for being suspicious of iV.

Not basing any cases of mine on connections. The most I said was I could foresee a connection between JAT and Omni. I am probably off base with that one.

I have already addressed in detail why I think scum hunting based on the Xzavier lynch is detrimental to town. Like I said Scum will try to capitalize on that opportunity.

You, holy, and iV have a connection as far as the thread goes. Arguing among each other.

Again you go back to me talking about connections, that is weak. I admit, It was preemptive for me to say that you guys were connected, but that was not at all the focus of that post. It was a very small tidbit of information. Furthermore, both of you were building cases based on the Xzavier lynch. JAT to a lesser extent, but he did bring up the voting prior to the lynch in his case.

I did stick to one story. Your argument is weak. You are trying to find evidence when there is none. Here is the story. I think you are pushing an agenda, capitalizing on the Xzavier lynch. I think you mimicked Koshi to a certain extent, and your arguments are super weak. I think you are scummy. But at the time of that post, my biggest read was JAT. I outlined all the reasons I thought JAT was scummy. Furthermore I said Holy has attributes that seem scummy and that seem townie, and I am leaning town. I said you "seemed" genuine, and have other townie traits, but I am leaning scum on you.

On August 20 2013 04:39 DeusXmachina wrote:


Okay if you believe one person on the lynch is scum why are you not focusing on Holy anymore?

On August 20 2013 04:52 DeusXmachina wrote:


Why isn't Holy's vote as bad? It is substantially more under the radar (which is more scummy than attracting everyone's attention). It was done for equally as bad reasons. The fact that he went afk after does not mean that the vote is not scummy.

Ok guys I really have to go.