EPTWhatever we should drop this it leads nowhere.
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVI - Page 33
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
Whatever we should drop this it leads nowhere. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17321 Posts
So I you like holy's case vote me, if not what you want me do. I voted deus, and I think this because he stifled discussion mainly coupled with prior gutread.. So if you MUST discuss me, go for it but don't ask for my take. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17321 Posts
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
Omni I would like you to make a summarized post on why you think Deus is scum. Try to stick to why scum Deus would do something instead of just pointing out contradictions please. | ||
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
HolyFlare would you do us a favor and post the rest of your information if you have the time? What's with the other people - Lone, any input? Also Deus has gone mia again... | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17321 Posts
On August 20 2013 03:49 justanothertownie wrote: I feel so alone here... HolyFlare would you do us a favor and post the rest of your information if you have the time? What's with the other people - Lone, any input? Also Deus has gone mia again... Anything you want from be besides am I scum? I am willing to check stuff out | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6590 Posts
On August 20 2013 03:10 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Omni I would like you to make a summarized post on why you think Deus is scum. Try to stick to why scum Deus would do something instead of just pointing out contradictions please. sure thin, although I'll say now most of his contradictions do point to very scummy behavior. He starts off by saying town should be allowed to lie and we should lynch lurkers, this also means it's ok for scum to lie as he says town will never catch lying scum. Town's mindset is to catch scum lying because they NEED to lie to stay alive, not to ignore it and let anybody say what ever they want. The policy lynch for Lynch All Liars exists for that very reason. In a newbie game you don't need to fake claim your role, in fact by town lying you just add more confusion to the rest of town. Although this was just his policy talk I felt it was a very important start to his game. He goes on to say he wants to put all the policy talk away, and follows it up by saying he's voting for a lurker because they are lurking and haven't posted. I know he's played a few games before, he knows you don't claim to cast a vote for pressure. EVERY vote should have the intention to lynch behind it. As town you want to get lurkers to contribute but you don't say "hey, this is only a pressure vote but you better start contributing or maybe it'll become a real vote!" That is not a town oriented move. It's scum focusing on a "easy" target and being very non-committal about it on top of that. If we still had hardcore lurkers I'd bet he'd still be voting for them doing the exact same thing. he goes on to talk to Holy and asks this question, "Yes he hasn't contributed, but do you want to make a case against him because he hasn't contributed or because he is a hypocrite?". This isn't something town says... "yeah he hasn't contributed and he's going back on what he's saying BUT that's no reason to make a case on him!" actually... that's called scum hunting and it's exactly what town should be doing. Unfortunately this comment stops Holy and Deus effectively stops any potential attempt at town talking about it at all. Which he has done several times now. Again this is not how a townie behaves. You don't try to stop people from talking about the only leads they have to go on, you contribute and try to find something else that other people have missed. Scum try to stifle conversation and tell people that it's scummy to continue trying to scum hunt. He has constantly been trying to work out association cases based on nothing, which although many townies unfortunately were doing, scum loves this and tries to hop in with their own, because it's pointless but it makes them seem like they are contributing. Once people see an association case it becomes very difficult for them to think about it in another way which effectively shuts down their helpfulness. Deus was completely on board with doing just that. his vote has been covered, but again it's scummy and there is no town benefit for him voting for a modkill. It only adds confusion. He goes on to claim that the voting catastrophe is irrelevant to scum hunting which it certainly is not. Town tries to gather information from clusterfucks like that but he claims it's scummy to talk about it and we should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Makes sense considering he made the jump to Xzavier from LosK first. Claims myself Holy and ivLosK have some sort of connection..... not really sure how. "There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other?" Mmmmmmmm WIFOM bombing town is so helpful. After everything he says about thinking I'm scummy, he then claims I'm genuine and have been actively contributing and posting and then calls Slam town. - then says JAT and myself are the scum team. Can not even make up his mind in the same post. literally has 0 direction and claims I'm trying to mislead town. Let's see what he's said... "II. Omni, iV, and Holy There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected?" and "VI. Final thoughts I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni." one (two) large post which comes down to an association case based on nothing. Baffle them with bullshit guys! they won't see through the smoke. Townies don't do this crap. Scum try to lie and confuse us, they try to stop scum hunting, stop conversation, and try to convince town that everybody else is scum. so yes, I believe Deus is scum and actively trying to mislead town by throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, he himself certainly has not stuck to one story even in the same post. The only thing he's stayed consistent on is that the Xzavier lynch should stop being looked at. - scummy. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6590 Posts
On August 20 2013 03:49 justanothertownie wrote: I feel so alone here... HolyFlare would you do us a favor and post the rest of your information if you have the time? What's with the other people - Lone, any input? Also Deus has gone mia again... it takes awhile to write the post ok?! lol | ||
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
If you have the time I guess it would be a good idea for you to have a look at Deus if you really want to lynch him. If you have even more time I would like your opinion on Omni and iVLosk. | ||
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6590 Posts
On August 20 2013 03:52 Alakaslam wrote: Anything you want from be besides am I scum? I am willing to check stuff out give us an update on your top 3 scum reads, if I'm one of them I want to know why, get into some real details for why your vote is on Deus right now and why you were sheeping him for the entire D1 lynch cycle if you are now voting for him D2. Also your thoughts on why Koshi was killed when he said we should go after you and LosK for the lynch on D2. As it directly impacts you I'd like to know what you actually think about it. | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 19:46 justanothertownie wrote: So Deus, you don't like it if I quote you - ok. I don't like to quote such an enormous post anyways. So here is my answer to you but first: I thought about the whole thing since yesterday and I will admit that the lynch conclusions alone are not enough to forge a solid read on someone. I got caught up in this because your voting was really stupid even if it wasn't scum motivated. If you read what I said you know that I already mentioned it doesn't make so much sense for scum to voteswitch like that if iVLosk is town. And iVlosk is right that this is kind of an association case and that they are bad. Still I don't really like how you responded to my case on you and I will tell you why. Yeah, I quoted a shitton if you want so say it like that but I always explained what's scummy about it if it doesn't speak for itself like your voting pattern. You don't even adress one point of my case directly instead you are saying I am scum for pushing you? Wow, now I am impressed. Thats's the scummy way to "defend" against a case. You are absolutely right - a townie should change his reads if there is new information but did you really do that? What happened between your vote on iVlosk and your vote on Xzavier that changed your mind and if there is nothing why did you vote for iVLosk in the first place? If you can explain your thought process through yesterday to me instead of just claiming there is no way scum would do that I would consider changing my read on you. Also please explain to me why you didn't know it was plurality lynch when it was mentioned several times before the lynch (did you read the thread at all?). So far I see your case on me is that I am agreeing with people on things + OMGUS. Yeah, great case. Other than that: I am suspicious of Omni myself. He is obviously right about me but if I understand him correctly he obsed before he replaced so it is easy to know who looks townie to people and who doesn't and scum likes to give townreads. It is easy for them to give strong reads because they know who is town and who isn't. But what really gets me thinking about him is his reasoning. He doesn't even really consider iVLosk to be scum and still insists on you or slam being scum and I don't follow that. There still is only one alive player who I really have a considerable townread on and it's not him. I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it. The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him. It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it. He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game. I don't see that at all in this game. He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down. He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this: After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that). His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum. What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him. Then he is suspicious of him: Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly: But why don't vote for our townread, right? Then there is this: Followed by: Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting. I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him. For starters, scum reads based on the xzavier lynch are extremelly unreliable, and I will try to explain that by detailing my thought process. Ill say this again, the xzavier lynch is a MASSIVE opportunity for scum to capitalize on. It's a gateway to mislynching a townie. There was some talk about my inconsistency. I wouldn't call the moments before the Xzavier lynch inconsistent. At least in my case, the better word is impulsive. So my thought process: The most impulsive thing I did that day was vote iV. Shortly after, I posted what I was thinking. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 02:56 DeusXmachina wrote: Sorry guys. I couldn't be around this morning. Read the thread. Although I don't completely agree with Holy stance against iV, everyone else seems convinced. Not sold on squibbs. I would rather vote Xzavier but that is clearly not going to happen. Fuck I might change my vote. iV seems to aggressive/antagonistic to be scum. I got in right before the lynch. I pan through the posts. Wow people seemed convinced iV is the best lynch candidate. Vote iV. Wait a second, I don't really agree with that. He is way to antagonistic, and aggressive to be scum. I don't think this is right. Well how many votes against him, we need 5 right? (Yes I genuinly thought it was a majority lynch. No I didn't catch where it said plurality. Yes when slam responded right after saying plurality I discarded it because I thought wtf does that mean). Nope this isn't right he is not scum. Unvote, vote Xzavier. Why vote Xzavier? Yes I actually thought it was a majority (Guys do you really think scum would say something so stupid?). I thought, you know what, I am sticking to my guns this game. I don't want to tolerate lurking. Why such a strong stance against lurking? Well I had a major lurker in my last game who turned out to be scum. Another lurker, although not as bad, who turned out to be scum. Okay, so in retrospect Xzavier was beyond a lurker. He was a no poster. But I thought to myself, I don't think Squibbs is scum just yet, I don't think reps is scum just yet. So he is the only one I can vote for. I kick myself for not voting no-lynch. But don't you see! That inconsistency, that impulsiveness is not scummy. Who is more likely to be impulsive? A scum who is constantly thinking about the ramifications of his actions, or a townie who is interested in scum hunting, not constantly making sure he does not look suspicious. Look how much shit that Xzavier lynch got slam and I? That would be, like I said earlier, a massive misstep by scum. That's why talk of scum reads based on the Xzavier lynch are so silly. That's why I think Omni is trying to capitalize on the lynch. Ill respond to JAT's case point by point. The first little bit is based on my meta. I think that is a weak argument. He is talking about how I am not being as aggressive. Well different game different situation. Second point. Back off the policy talk was not defensive at all. I was heading your advice/agreeing with you. My scum hunting was based off of only lurkers? I didn't have anything else to scum hunt at the time. I didn't want to talk about inconsistencies in IV's play and over-analyze his first post, so I didn't chime in with Holy. After that is the best example of my inconsistency. My read on iV was changing, that's all that needs to be said. The rest I explained above. Overall it's still a weak case. My case on you was not just based on you agreeing with things. | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 00:24 OmniEulogy wrote: just got on the computer, read through things quickly and I'll give a more detailed answer to everything in a little bit but I've played with a lot of people who play like LosK has been doing, all of them have been town. Most of what he's said and done has largely just messed with town, and although he is my weakest town read he is still town imo. All of the association cases against him are useless till we know Slam/Deus's alignment. Also from what I quickly read it looks like Deus didn't actually address anything in JAT's case and tried to brush it off and then redirect suspicion at others. I'd be fine with him trying to give his scum reads if he actually tried to clear up his mess and explain his own posts. Also Deus from how I read it, the inconsistency isn't the constantly changing reads town has, the inconsistency is you saying one thing, and then doing another immediately after with no reason behind it. Did you even care who you voted for D1? I can't tell. Also cases don't need to be long and lengthy, having a short case with a ton of incriminating posts doesn't make it weak. How about you actually talk about those posts instead. I'm going to grab some lunch / late breakfast and then get back to the questions directed at me  I clearly cared who I voted for day 1 otherwise I would not have taken my vote off of iV | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 01:03 Alakaslam wrote: Now more on Deus. I personally like him shutting down discussion of the Xzav tomfoolery, because no more suspicion of me- Yay! However, as a Town oriented player, I really dislike it. Why should any discussion be stifled? And here he is using bully tactics too; "It is scummy to talk about it anymore"- no it isn't! Although I wish everyone would just forget it, we need to hash out whether or not scum was involved. I really don't like stifling that. That being said, I think Deus could be thinking about "Priority 1: establish your innocence", so this is the best way to do that. However, it could be "Scum priority: stay alive" so not anything better than null from me. I will keep looking into things and talkin I am not stifling discussion. That is just stupid. Do you expect everyone to stop and say "ok no more talk on the xzavier lynch". I am expressing my opinion and that is: The Xzavier lynch is unreliable for scum reads. | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 01:42 OmniEulogy wrote: I'm back, I think one if not both of them scum slipped in the worst way possible. Scum make mistakes and it is our job to find those mistakes and lynch them for it. In my first game scum literally said "this is my first game as mafia" and because I didn't push that lynch hard enough we ended up lynching a townie who tried to defend him. I see the vote on Xzavier by Slam and Deus as pretty much the same thing. "Oops I'm not used to playing as scum and I panicked" LosK's alignment doesn't fucking matter until we know which one of Deus or Slam is scum. If they both are we win the game but if it's only one of them and the other sheeped him or tried to make it look like a sheep vote THEN we can discuss LosK being scum. I've mentioned it before but trying to figure out LosK's alignment from this is pointless right now. This is cringe worthy. You are jumping to massive conclusions. Your reads are based on the assumption that scum fucked up. | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 02:02 OmniEulogy wrote: Anyway to cover everything else that has been said. Deus immediately starts his thoughts on me by again being inconsistent "After that he has a couple posts that target holy, ending in a case against holy, then drops holy. " "It's possible that Omni begins pushing a lynch on Holy, using the voting catastrophe, and drops it when it doesn't seem to be working. " and finally "and a few others. Here is the thing. Holy's defense is strong, and it seems like a town defense. He did bring up good points. " I say Holy doesn't look as bad as Slam and Deus anymore as well. Holy has not cleared himself with me but he looks a lot better than Deus or Slam, Why would I continue to push for his lynch when I've said multiple times D2 lynch should be focused around Slam and Deus. moving on I appreciate that Deus at least admits that he believes I do make some strong points and have been actively posting along with those. He also says that I seem genuine to him. Deus your first question doesn't actually apply to anything. Nobody had said anything more other than discussing the vote and I did make some other points on Holy for why I suspected him other than just his vote. I dropped Holy for reasons mentioned above. He was no longer my top scum read. 3) Because either all three of you are fucking useless as town or there was scum on the Xzavier lynch. How can you not see that is the better question. Deus goes on to mention that the only way you should ever use the lynch on Xzavier to scum hunt is if you make a case against Holy for it. Holy shit. (pun not intended) He then claims that I am trying to mislead town when apparently he thinks I'm genuinely scum hunting, making a case against Holy when in his opinion that is the correct thing to do and actively contributing to towns discussions. Fake Paranoia is so annoying. JAT sorry, I hadn't read your response to Deus when I had posted and I realize I did pretty much rehash what you had already said to him. My objective in giving my town reads is to try and strengthen / unify town when there was some very obvious shit that is happening around the Xzavier lynch. I also give my scum reads, and why they changed twice, please don't ignore that. Also stop trying to convince yourself there is a connection between Deus/Slam and LosK before we see any flips. It's hurting you if you assume there is one as it will impact your ability to see them as individual scum. I think I covered your question on why I still think LosK is town JAT. You're right. That was not a good point to bring up. I was a little alarmed at how you focused so much attention on Holy than just abruptly moved on. Maybe I missed something. I should not have assumed I knew what you were thinking. | ||
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DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 02:09 Alakaslam wrote: You is JAT but y'all are as convinced as deus last game. Both seem like they could be town I do care who I lynch. It is like what happened to vlosk He was gone, I am only AFPC but still, I can't make detailed reads and stuff from my phone. Deus is stifling the very conversation you guys are having and you jump me lololol See I encouraged this very conversation but nooooooooooo man that is scummier than stifling it oh and btw you are all scummy for discussing this Ya seriously ##Vote: DeusXmachina I be the reps this is your page 35 moment "Hermano! Aiuda me!" (K, I switched now tell me why) "El viva rey!' (Silence, Xzavier is town) "HWOAOAH" Nooooooooooooo! This is soo soo bad. He votes me because I am stifling conversation. Well, I would like to think that my post last night generated a good amount of conversation. | ||
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justanothertownie
16308 Posts
When you are finished defending yourself give some reads please, Deus. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6590 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 08:34 Koshi wrote: guis guis guis. No worries. Just remember. Need to kill Alaksalam,Holyflare, DeusXmachina or iVLosK. Just kill the one that is the most useless day 2. Alaksalam knows better than to create such a shit environment and to do 0 scumhunting the entire game. And I am certain he knows that voting a 0 poster is horrible. His biggest contribution were giving out general advice. It is a newbie game but I don't like it. You need to get rid of scum. Not of guys that can't defend themselves. Especially when they flip town most likely. This guy is trying to WIFOM me and I don't like it. 5 spamposts in the same minute these are 3 of it. He knows he shouldn't vote for a modkill. He votes for the modkill. And then he says it is majority lynch when it is plurality. So bad it hurts my soul. iV and Alaksalam should be lynched next time unless magic happens on day 2. The other 2 follow closely. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 10:14 Koshi wrote: I am still wondering why you guys voted iVLosK. Please also redirect me to the scumhunting you guys did. I have trouble finding it. Setup Information: This means there are 2 scums right? It's fair to say that town will have 1 power role and 6 VT and then scum 1 power role and 1 goon. Gameplan for town is simple. We find 4 confirmed townies and we win the game. Confirmed townie status: Koshi Close to confirmed townie status: OmniEulogy Probably town: JAT, Meowie I still agree with what he said during N1 and I know I'm town which means scum DID fuck up. I'm not sure how many people you think are in this game but scum was on Xzavier if my reads are correct. I know you're paranoid about literally everybody as I think the only person you've given town reads to are Slam (lol?) LosK and Meow. which funny enough has two people Koshi was telling us to lynch. I strongly believe the two scum are in your group of 4 as did Koshi and you trying to push everything away from going in that direction isn't very convincing. | ||
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