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On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it.
the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway
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Rayn, describe your PMs with Acro please
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Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you.
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On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway
I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn.
You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn.
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On August 13 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you.
..............
What have you done except throwing slight suspicion at most people in the game?
What I have done:
- Pressured grackaroni during N0 (for his passive attitude to the vote)
- Pushed you for most of the game, ranging from slight suspicion to great suspicion
- Pushed Risen starting earlier today
- Softpushed several more people (every push can't be a hard push sadly)
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Before I fall asleep please RIsen
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On August 12 2013 18:40 Dandel Ion wrote:Agreed. That's actually why I told chrom to shoot the scum slot last night, so that this could be avoided. At that time I didn't know there was a list On which the hyperlurker wasn't even on. For no discernable reason. I blame the maker of the list.
Dandel can you explain why you thought/think Nacho was scum and should be shot above the other semi-lurkers?
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Okie dokie big post incoming. I thought it would be similar to my last post, but everything I have pales in comparison to my case against Sharrant and, by a REAL connection, Acro.
The whole thing with rayne was an attempt at getting the thread to react. Everyone reacted, and I was going to use those reactions in my cases, but then I stumbled upon this. So I'm sorry for wasting people's time.
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On August 13 2013 05:17 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn. You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn.
I think you're quite deserving but iamperfection keeps saying me you're town so I try to hold back. Otherwise I'm starting to lean town on strongandbig and Koshi. The ones I have mostly started to lean scum on are Risen, jrkirby, Vivax and Ace. I think I've made my point about Risen already at several points in my filter today so let's make a case on jrkirby.
1) Lurking pretty hard but trying to look like he's making some effort at least. This even had me mistaking him as town earlier. But on second thought, this is exactly the most scummy position: overall useless, but appears to be a bit useful. This is the classic scum play.
2) Very soft and wishy-washy in his accusations. I dare you to read through his posts and find even one clear stance about anything. You could argue that about his "scumlist" post, maybe, but it was basically just a list of names that he didn't do anything with.
On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum? Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him? + Show Spoiler +I just got caught up on the thread.
On August 10 2013 06:49 jrkirby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, finally caught up again. This thread grew 15 pages while I was reading 10. People I want lynched/shot: 1) s0lstice. He claimed he didn't want to elect DI even though he thought that could easily determine if DI was scum. Enough reason to lynch right here. 2) sharant. I've heard he has a bunch of PM's but I haven't seen them. When he get into the thread he just starts defending Kush out of nowhere. None of it seems that useful and the evidence is largely meta. Kush hasn't been getting that much pressure anyway, so why does he need to defend like this? 3) oatsmaster. He posted a bunch of useless arguing with yamato at the beginning, which would be good if he had started making scumcases by now, but he's mostly given out townreads with the occasional we should lynch X with no real case. 4) Yamato. He is clearly the scummiest guy in our house. He didn't PM me until nearly the end of N0 for me to realize I got his real username wrong, and also was asking oberyn and onegu to vote for him. His arguments with oats just served to lengthen the thread without any real substance, and he hasn't posted any scumreads with substance.
On August 10 2013 09:42 jrkirby wrote:
I just checked tofu's filter. Yeah, that guys is always way more active than this. That's not guaranteed scum, but it certainly is a sign.
On August 10 2013 09:52 jrkirby wrote:Why does s&b say: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. That seems scummy. It would make sense if he asked acro to stop playing in character, but lynch him for it? Also this is after Oberyn puts his vote on acro. Perhaps he's trying to push a wagon on someone he knows is town. The rest of his filter seems fine, but that's pretty scummy there.
3) Likes to fill his filter with useless setup speculation when the topic was already over with.
On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it.
4) What originally got my attention was Oberyn's post about yamato and jrkirby not being interested to PM with each other. This line of thought is even confirmed by jrkirby himself:
On August 10 2013 06:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:54 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 10 2013 06:52 jrkirby wrote:
Also, Onegu is probably the biggest reason why we elected Oberyn, so if one of them is scum, there's a decent chance the other is scum too. Could you explain this please? The first PM I got from onegu was that we should elect oberyn because he was experienced. I PM'd Oberyn a bunch before deciding to elect oberyn, but the campaign kinda started with onegu. Without the association though, this isn't inherently scummy in my opinion.
He doesn't mention yamato at all regarding the process to elect Oberyn?
So there you go. Your turn, Acro.
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Sharrant
I don't know why I didn't see some really scummy things from Sharrant earlier. I was possibly tunneling my initial scum reads. Plus he's a claimed one shot cop.
Regardless... + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 02:34 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 02:27 Oberyn wrote:
I think town should strongly try to influence the Lord elections for day two. I've bolded my preferred Lords. Please post if you disagree with my assessment.
House Tyrell:
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
Is it terrible that I'm picking the guy with one post? kush is a martyr so I wouldn't consider him. johnny is suspicious to several players, although I haven't spent much time on him yet and I have a scum read on Acro. I wish we had one of Dandel's house nukes.
House Greyjoy
raynpelikoneet
FirmTofu
Nachomamma8
Risen
I'm content with rayn staying as Lord based on activity.
House Stark
strongandbig
Clarity_nl
Oatsmaster
Vivax
This was a tough choice since most of these individuals are townish null. I'd like to see s&b's play today before making a final decision on this one.
House Lannister
iamperfection
Xatalos
Grackaroni
Gumshoe
Xatalos appears more town to me than iamp thus far. I don't like iamp's preferred house kp target and he hasn't done enough in the thread.
House Baratheon
Chromatically
Koshi
S0lstice
Dandel Ion
I would be pretty opposed to any of the other three at this point. Chrom has been pretty active in PMs.
House Martell
Oberyn
jrkirby
yamato77
Onegu
I feel I've been the most active among my house and I know my own alignment. Talk to me about your scum read on Acrofales. I'm interested in this and it seems like a much more fruitful discussion than what has been going on for the last few pages.
I crucified FT for just the same thing. Just because FT flipped town doesn't mean what he did was right. Similarly, what Sharrant is doing here is posting filler and trying to "get the thread back on track" without actually getting the thread back on track. You know what gets the thread back on track? You posting your thoughts on Acro and then asking for other people's opinions. What's the hardest thing for scum to do? Hunt for scum. Did Sharrant hunt scum anywhere at all this game through day 1? No. Instead we have him jump on the wagon and do nothing of any use. + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 10:21 Sharrant wrote:
The wagon of justice definitely has my support. I would vote with you if I could. I hope when Acrofales returns he'll place our house's vote there as well. His strange "my case is original" is definitely the most damning part in my eyes.
I think we should concentrate on where houses should be using their shots. We have four hours until we can no longer plan inter-house.
Since Acrofales is not here at the moment, I will be suggesting that he fire at either Yamato or Nacho, with Nacho being the stronger recommendation.
I think that 3 houses should be elected as shooters. And fire at three agreed upon targets. The remaining three houses will be assigned to each target, and if the target is not dead before day break, they should fire upon them. If the targets die, then they are free to pick their own targets.
So how does someone get their cred back? A "cop check". Despite a complete lack of scum hunting through d1, what is one way to "confirm" yourself green? A one shot red check on someone who appears scummy to the thread and is likely going to be shot. I've bussed the shit out of scum buddies before, it works. The buildup to a fake claim. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 15:06 Sharrant wrote:
At any rate, here's reason that you should've picked up on big time already. That whole argument with you at the beginning of the game was not Yamato playing as a townie. I watched you two basically get each other killed arguing with each other as town last time I played with both of you. Yamato has acted very similarly to how he has there, with the exception that he was always driving to make a point or do something useful last game. He was very disruptive, and frustrating, but purposeful and his actions had merit.
In this game he's basically just disrupted conversation, but done so without helping the town. He's been shutting people down, and causing arguments to stifle discussion. There's been nothing useful in his play.
He is mafia, guaranteed. Can you not see the difference in how he argued both games being on the receiving end of it both times?
Where is this case coming from? Why didn't you have this yesterday before we were lynching FT? You certainly didn't have any reservations, and even as a cop trying to lay low you should have given some sort of justification.
Now for the reveal. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote:
Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be revealed so quickly.
I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.
After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good.
An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely.
At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member.
How this reads to me...
"Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!"
If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. I don't know how it has slipped by the thread, but the final thing that bugs me about this post is how he says yamato is someone who was relatively out of the spotlight. I guarantee you ask anyone in this game or watching about a major event d1 and they'll say oats/yamato was something worth remembering.
I don't think this works with a town acro, and it makes me really suspicious that Sharrant comes to the defense of Acro here + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2013 23:25 Sharrant wrote:
@oats/acro
I think we can agree that waiting would have been the ideal move rather than outing me publicly. Outing me to the thread doesn't seem scum motivated to me though. Oats, you're chasing sub optimal play as if it were scum oriented play.
Scum oriented play: pretend to have been gone after reading the pm, reveal it to the scum qt. Have yamato drop real wifom bombs before he was "caught" and have members of the scum team express suspicion of him in preparation for the reveal of the red check. Then tell the other lords.
Acro's handling of the situation is bad if he is scum, and acceptable but sub optimal as town. At worst that he revealed is null, at best it's kind of townie.
@koshi
Why would you even ask that? You've also discounted all the possibilities of a vig that is not instant kill. What if he too only has one kp? What if he has 3? Why haven't you discussed that? Why assume he has anywhere around the 7ish we knew were required to kill gum shoe?
That hypothetical he weaves for acro's scum oriented play is just plain wrong as I've already explained. Now that Sharrant is "confirmed" and has sufficiently defended acro without going overboard, he slips away back into lurker land. Why do that if your one shot is gone? Why do that if you're still an active cop and just faking one shot? Scum already has to kill you they can't risk you getting more checks off if you're lying about one shot. Why? Because you're scum and you're not worried about getting night killed.
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On August 13 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you. .............. What have you done except throwing slight suspicion at most people in the game? What I have done: - Pressured grackaroni during N0 (for his passive attitude to the vote) - Pushed you for most of the game, ranging from slight suspicion to great suspicion - Pushed Risen starting earlier today - Softpushed several more people (every push can't be a hard push sadly)
You haven't pushed me, I can attest to that. At best you are starting now, but your earlier suspicions can be summarized by you every now and then interjecting that you think I'm a Blackfyre, with no reasons or any useful pressure to speak of. I have been ignoring it until now because of the utter lack of conviction behind it and figure it is just the same as in PTP when you had nonsense reasons that just went away during the game.
You started "pushing" Risen AFTER Strongandbig's case. I call that bandwagoning. You have not made an original case this entire game.
I have no idea whether you pushed Grack or not, because it happened at night, in private missives.
As for softpushing, if it was any softer than you pushed me, it must have had an adverse effect. In fact, it probably did, because I can't remember any of it. I remember some of your town reads, but that is it. Your liege seems to think you are a loyalist, and the happenings at night seem to indicate that also, but I find your claims to activity beyond preposterous.
Now make that case on me or shut up about it.
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So in my mind the lynch needs to be Yamato and the shots need to be fired at Sharrant.
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I really just look at everything that goes into the thread and makes assumptions from there, maybe not the best assumption with yamato being scum but still not a bad one. (besides Onegu has confirmed that I was right.) At the time I also think I believed they only elected Oberyn because of lore.
jrkirby seemed pleasant enough, but we really didn't take about much of importance. -oberyn
With my PMs I felt oberyn was town, jrkirby null, and null/scum on you as I only got 2 PMs from you -Onegu
For the record, my house is Oberyn, jrkirby and Onegu. I haven't really talked for very much with any of them, really. -Yamato
A lot of time being wasted on this supposed scum slip.
On August 13 2013 00:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:02 kushm4sta wrote:
neither. i honestly believe this. for this game and future games we need to start plynching fake claimers so they stop doing it So should I be lynched also, why not actually scum hunt and try to win, once people figure out fakeclaiming is bad they will stop dont need to policy lynch them.
I want clarification on this. You are saying fake claiming is bad but you didn't dissuade Oberyn from fakeclaiming and in fact went out of your way to fake claim yourself. If you truly believe this why did you fake claim?
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On August 13 2013 05:42 Risen wrote:SharrantI don't know why I didn't see some really scummy things from Sharrant earlier. I was possibly tunneling my initial scum reads. Plus he's a claimed one shot cop. Regardless... + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 02:34 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 02:27 Oberyn wrote:
I think town should strongly try to influence the Lord elections for day two. I've bolded my preferred Lords. Please post if you disagree with my assessment.
House Tyrell:
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
Is it terrible that I'm picking the guy with one post? kush is a martyr so I wouldn't consider him. johnny is suspicious to several players, although I haven't spent much time on him yet and I have a scum read on Acro. I wish we had one of Dandel's house nukes.
House Greyjoy
raynpelikoneet
FirmTofu
Nachomamma8
Risen
I'm content with rayn staying as Lord based on activity.
House Stark
strongandbig
Clarity_nl
Oatsmaster
Vivax
This was a tough choice since most of these individuals are townish null. I'd like to see s&b's play today before making a final decision on this one.
House Lannister
iamperfection
Xatalos
Grackaroni
Gumshoe
Xatalos appears more town to me than iamp thus far. I don't like iamp's preferred house kp target and he hasn't done enough in the thread.
House Baratheon
Chromatically
Koshi
S0lstice
Dandel Ion
I would be pretty opposed to any of the other three at this point. Chrom has been pretty active in PMs.
House Martell
Oberyn
jrkirby
yamato77
Onegu
I feel I've been the most active among my house and I know my own alignment. Talk to me about your scum read on Acrofales. I'm interested in this and it seems like a much more fruitful discussion than what has been going on for the last few pages. I crucified FT for just the same thing. Just because FT flipped town doesn't mean what he did was right. Similarly, what Sharrant is doing here is posting filler and trying to "get the thread back on track" without actually getting the thread back on track. You know what gets the thread back on track? You posting your thoughts on Acro and then asking for other people's opinions. What's the hardest thing for scum to do? Hunt for scum. Did Sharrant hunt scum anywhere at all this game through day 1? No. Instead we have him jump on the wagon and do nothing of any use. + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 10:21 Sharrant wrote:
The wagon of justice definitely has my support. I would vote with you if I could. I hope when Acrofales returns he'll place our house's vote there as well. His strange "my case is original" is definitely the most damning part in my eyes.
I think we should concentrate on where houses should be using their shots. We have four hours until we can no longer plan inter-house.
Since Acrofales is not here at the moment, I will be suggesting that he fire at either Yamato or Nacho, with Nacho being the stronger recommendation.
I think that 3 houses should be elected as shooters. And fire at three agreed upon targets. The remaining three houses will be assigned to each target, and if the target is not dead before day break, they should fire upon them. If the targets die, then they are free to pick their own targets.
He suggests shooting yamato or nacho, but nacho's the stronger choice. Why? Where has he mentioned nacho at ALL up to this point? Where does he mention nacho again? Nowhere. No justification, no anything. Just him trying to shift shots from yamato to nacho. So how does someone get their cred back? A "cop check". Despite a complete lack of scum hunting through d1, what is one way to "confirm" yourself green? A one shot red check on someone who appears scummy to the thread and is likely going to be shot. I've bussed the shit out of scum buddies before, it works. The buildup to a fake claim. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 15:06 Sharrant wrote:
At any rate, here's reason that you should've picked up on big time already. That whole argument with you at the beginning of the game was not Yamato playing as a townie. I watched you two basically get each other killed arguing with each other as town last time I played with both of you. Yamato has acted very similarly to how he has there, with the exception that he was always driving to make a point or do something useful last game. He was very disruptive, and frustrating, but purposeful and his actions had merit.
In this game he's basically just disrupted conversation, but done so without helping the town. He's been shutting people down, and causing arguments to stifle discussion. There's been nothing useful in his play.
He is mafia, guaranteed. Can you not see the difference in how he argued both games being on the receiving end of it both times? Where is this case coming from? Why didn't you have this yesterday before we were lynching FT? You certainly didn't have any reservations, and even as a cop trying to lay low you should have given some sort of justification. Now for the reveal. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote:
Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be revealed so quickly.
I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.
After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good.
An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely.
At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member. How this reads to me... "Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!" If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. I don't know how it has slipped by the thread, but the final thing that bugs me about this post is how he says yamato is someone who was relatively out of the spotlight. I guarantee you ask anyone in this game or watching about a major event d1 and they'll say oats/yamato was something worth remembering. I don't think this works with a town acro, and it makes me really suspicious that Sharrant comes to the defense of Acro here + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2013 23:25 Sharrant wrote:
@oats/acro
I think we can agree that waiting would have been the ideal move rather than outing me publicly. Outing me to the thread doesn't seem scum motivated to me though. Oats, you're chasing sub optimal play as if it were scum oriented play.
Scum oriented play: pretend to have been gone after reading the pm, reveal it to the scum qt. Have yamato drop real wifom bombs before he was "caught" and have members of the scum team express suspicion of him in preparation for the reveal of the red check. Then tell the other lords.
Acro's handling of the situation is bad if he is scum, and acceptable but sub optimal as town. At worst that he revealed is null, at best it's kind of townie.
@koshi
Why would you even ask that? You've also discounted all the possibilities of a vig that is not instant kill. What if he too only has one kp? What if he has 3? Why haven't you discussed that? Why assume he has anywhere around the 7ish we knew were required to kill gum shoe? That hypothetical he weaves for acro's scum oriented play is just plain wrong as I've already explained. Now that Sharrant is "confirmed" and has sufficiently defended acro without going overboard, he slips away back into lurker land. Why do that if your one shot is gone? Why do that if you're still an active cop and just faking one shot? Scum already has to kill you they can't risk you getting more checks off if you're lying about one shot. Why? Because you're scum and you're not worried about getting night killed.
Lol. So we should kill the claimed cop who gave us scum on a silver platter? Think again.
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On August 13 2013 05:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you. .............. What have you done except throwing slight suspicion at most people in the game? What I have done: - Pressured grackaroni during N0 (for his passive attitude to the vote) - Pushed you for most of the game, ranging from slight suspicion to great suspicion - Pushed Risen starting earlier today - Softpushed several more people (every push can't be a hard push sadly) You haven't pushed me, I can attest to that. At best you are starting now, but your earlier suspicions can be summarized by you every now and then interjecting that you think I'm a Blackfyre, with no reasons or any useful pressure to speak of. I have been ignoring it until now because of the utter lack of conviction behind it and figure it is just the same as in PTP when you had nonsense reasons that just went away during the game. You started "pushing" Risen AFTER Strongandbig's case. I call that bandwagoning. You have not made an original case this entire game. I have no idea whether you pushed Grack or not, because it happened at night, in private missives. As for softpushing, if it was any softer than you pushed me, it must have had an adverse effect. In fact, it probably did, because I can't remember any of it. I remember some of your town reads, but that is it. Your liege seems to think you are a loyalist, and the happenings at night seem to indicate that also, but I find your claims to activity beyond preposterous. Now make that case on me or shut up about it.
That's simply a lie. I made my original case before strongandbig made his, you can go check that. I was just starting to suspect him then and I started pushing harder when I noticed the contradiction in his thought pattern later.
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lol I just wasted 30 minutes looking through PMs from rayn looking for connections from a "confirmed scum" -_-
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And the point stands that you haven't pushed anyone yet (besides softly throwing dirt).
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On August 13 2013 05:47 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:42 Risen wrote:SharrantI don't know why I didn't see some really scummy things from Sharrant earlier. I was possibly tunneling my initial scum reads. Plus he's a claimed one shot cop. Regardless... + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 02:34 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 02:27 Oberyn wrote:
I think town should strongly try to influence the Lord elections for day two. I've bolded my preferred Lords. Please post if you disagree with my assessment.
House Tyrell:
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
Is it terrible that I'm picking the guy with one post? kush is a martyr so I wouldn't consider him. johnny is suspicious to several players, although I haven't spent much time on him yet and I have a scum read on Acro. I wish we had one of Dandel's house nukes.
House Greyjoy
raynpelikoneet
FirmTofu
Nachomamma8
Risen
I'm content with rayn staying as Lord based on activity.
House Stark
strongandbig
Clarity_nl
Oatsmaster
Vivax
This was a tough choice since most of these individuals are townish null. I'd like to see s&b's play today before making a final decision on this one.
House Lannister
iamperfection
Xatalos
Grackaroni
Gumshoe
Xatalos appears more town to me than iamp thus far. I don't like iamp's preferred house kp target and he hasn't done enough in the thread.
House Baratheon
Chromatically
Koshi
S0lstice
Dandel Ion
I would be pretty opposed to any of the other three at this point. Chrom has been pretty active in PMs.
House Martell
Oberyn
jrkirby
yamato77
Onegu
I feel I've been the most active among my house and I know my own alignment. Talk to me about your scum read on Acrofales. I'm interested in this and it seems like a much more fruitful discussion than what has been going on for the last few pages. I crucified FT for just the same thing. Just because FT flipped town doesn't mean what he did was right. Similarly, what Sharrant is doing here is posting filler and trying to "get the thread back on track" without actually getting the thread back on track. You know what gets the thread back on track? You posting your thoughts on Acro and then asking for other people's opinions. What's the hardest thing for scum to do? Hunt for scum. Did Sharrant hunt scum anywhere at all this game through day 1? No. Instead we have him jump on the wagon and do nothing of any use. + Show Spoiler +On August 10 2013 10:21 Sharrant wrote:
The wagon of justice definitely has my support. I would vote with you if I could. I hope when Acrofales returns he'll place our house's vote there as well. His strange "my case is original" is definitely the most damning part in my eyes.
I think we should concentrate on where houses should be using their shots. We have four hours until we can no longer plan inter-house.
Since Acrofales is not here at the moment, I will be suggesting that he fire at either Yamato or Nacho, with Nacho being the stronger recommendation.
I think that 3 houses should be elected as shooters. And fire at three agreed upon targets. The remaining three houses will be assigned to each target, and if the target is not dead before day break, they should fire upon them. If the targets die, then they are free to pick their own targets.
He suggests shooting yamato or nacho, but nacho's the stronger choice. Why? Where has he mentioned nacho at ALL up to this point? Where does he mention nacho again? Nowhere. No justification, no anything. Just him trying to shift shots from yamato to nacho. So how does someone get their cred back? A "cop check". Despite a complete lack of scum hunting through d1, what is one way to "confirm" yourself green? A one shot red check on someone who appears scummy to the thread and is likely going to be shot. I've bussed the shit out of scum buddies before, it works. The buildup to a fake claim. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 15:06 Sharrant wrote:
At any rate, here's reason that you should've picked up on big time already. That whole argument with you at the beginning of the game was not Yamato playing as a townie. I watched you two basically get each other killed arguing with each other as town last time I played with both of you. Yamato has acted very similarly to how he has there, with the exception that he was always driving to make a point or do something useful last game. He was very disruptive, and frustrating, but purposeful and his actions had merit.
In this game he's basically just disrupted conversation, but done so without helping the town. He's been shutting people down, and causing arguments to stifle discussion. There's been nothing useful in his play.
He is mafia, guaranteed. Can you not see the difference in how he argued both games being on the receiving end of it both times? Where is this case coming from? Why didn't you have this yesterday before we were lynching FT? You certainly didn't have any reservations, and even as a cop trying to lay low you should have given some sort of justification. Now for the reveal. + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote:
Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be revealed so quickly.
I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.
After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good.
An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely.
At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member. How this reads to me... "Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!" If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. I don't know how it has slipped by the thread, but the final thing that bugs me about this post is how he says yamato is someone who was relatively out of the spotlight. I guarantee you ask anyone in this game or watching about a major event d1 and they'll say oats/yamato was something worth remembering. I don't think this works with a town acro, and it makes me really suspicious that Sharrant comes to the defense of Acro here + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2013 23:25 Sharrant wrote:
@oats/acro
I think we can agree that waiting would have been the ideal move rather than outing me publicly. Outing me to the thread doesn't seem scum motivated to me though. Oats, you're chasing sub optimal play as if it were scum oriented play.
Scum oriented play: pretend to have been gone after reading the pm, reveal it to the scum qt. Have yamato drop real wifom bombs before he was "caught" and have members of the scum team express suspicion of him in preparation for the reveal of the red check. Then tell the other lords.
Acro's handling of the situation is bad if he is scum, and acceptable but sub optimal as town. At worst that he revealed is null, at best it's kind of townie.
@koshi
Why would you even ask that? You've also discounted all the possibilities of a vig that is not instant kill. What if he too only has one kp? What if he has 3? Why haven't you discussed that? Why assume he has anywhere around the 7ish we knew were required to kill gum shoe? That hypothetical he weaves for acro's scum oriented play is just plain wrong as I've already explained. Now that Sharrant is "confirmed" and has sufficiently defended acro without going overboard, he slips away back into lurker land. Why do that if your one shot is gone? Why do that if you're still an active cop and just faking one shot? Scum already has to kill you they can't risk you getting more checks off if you're lying about one shot. Why? Because you're scum and you're not worried about getting night killed. Lol. So we should kill the claimed cop who gave us scum on a silver platter? Think again.
Did you even read it....
On August 13 2013 05:49 Oberyn wrote:
lol I just wasted 30 minutes looking through PMs from rayn looking for connections from a "confirmed scum" -_-
Sorry about that!
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Someone other than us two answer this. Does anyone think I could possibly be more wishy-washy than Acro? Even a single person?
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On August 13 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:
Someone other than us two answer this. Does anyone think I could possibly be more wishy-washy than Acro? Even a single person?
Anyone who reads the filter will tell you Acro is softer. Whether this is a product of the RP or not is another thing entirely. I don't like how Acro defended me just now, especially in conjunction with my case on Shar.
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EPT
