EPTAnd you're still not seeing the point of what you bolded Xata. If you had responded to anyone else like that my response would have been the same.
GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 122
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
And you're still not seeing the point of what you bolded Xata. If you had responded to anyone else like that my response would have been the same. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
Replace Dandel Ion in Koshi's post with any other person in this game. You respond with, "Oh XYZ... Are you scum again? What's your take on this post?" and I say the exact same thing replacing Dandel Ion with XYZ. Are you making this useless post distancing yourself from XYZ for when XYZ flips scum? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18172 Posts
Since then he has disappeared except to come in every now and then to yell that person X or Y is a Blackfyre. In the past, he has always shown a lot of interest in uncovering plots, and while he may not always be the friendliest fellow, he is more useful than he is today. I feel we should really look at Ser Ion tomorrow. Funky stuff happened in Baratheon politics and a Dragon amongst the Stags would explain a lot. The whole house should be scrutinized tomorrow, but Ser Ion should not be given a free pass just because he has been an outspoken loudmouth. He really hasn't said much of anything useful. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:32 Risen wrote: EBWOP: I swear in a previous game I got into an argument about what is and isn't a contradiction that took up way too much time. To save time, I'll make this final post on the matter... Replace Dandel Ion in Koshi's post with any other person in this game. You respond with, "Oh XYZ... Are you scum again? What's your take on this post?" and I say the exact same thing replacing Dandel Ion with XYZ. Are you making this useless post distancing yourself from XYZ for when XYZ flips scum? That's not the biggest problem here. I can sort of see a townie thinking like that. The actual problem is that you later stated that your scumread on DI was based on a connection of his to me. There is nothing like that in your filter (actually the opposite, with you assuming DI is scum in your case against me). Why would you clearly forget or forge your own thought process if you actually were town and trying to find scum? | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:35 Acrofales wrote: In reading the minutes of the start of our meeting I am really surprised by how absolutely useless Dandel Ion was. I thought he had been helpful in sorting out the mess regarding Baratheon politics, but he was instead disruptive and caused more harm than good. We're starting to agree on things. This feels quite strange. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
"was only scum b/c of connection to xatalos unsure" Right? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:44 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Nvm I think you mean this and you're beginning to make sense "was only scum b/c of connection to xatalos unsure" Right? Yes. 1) You never based your scumread on DI to any connection. 2) Even if you did, there were plenty of other reasons in your post. There's no consistent town logic here. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Yeah, I had a feeling that you had both Grack and JrKirby as scumread and dnu... It was bad. Ignore me -_-. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote: Yes. 1) You never based your scumread on DI to any connection. 2) Even if you did, there were plenty of other reasons in your post. There's no consistent town logic here. What is town logic? Acting to benefit town and hunt scum is the only "logic" there should be. That only applies to how the individual is thinking at any given time. Too often people in these games get wrapped up in, "oh I can't see why he would do that" without realizing they only see the game from one perspective. Every town player will act in what he thinks benefits town most at any given time. Any scum player will try to appear as town as possible, and will therefor attempt to emulate your "town logic". I can not understand people who make arguments based on town logic and town motivation. "Where's the scum motivation in X doing Y"? Well maybe X did Y so you would say that. I'm going back to building my cases. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Saying "what you're saying is WIFOM" is not only, dumb, it's also untrue in this case. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote: I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post. Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:55 Clarity_nl wrote: Scum try to emulate a town mindset but they don't always succeed, if they did scum would win 100% of the time. Saying "what you're saying is WIFOM" is not only, dumb, it's also untrue in this case. "I'm failing at emulating a town mindset. But hey, maybe it's because I'm town and I'm doing that to lead people off my track so it's all just WIFOM... Oh wait." | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18172 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote: I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia? well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. Huge post - makes him scum how? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. "Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote: Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. You haven't taken any hard stances at any point though. You've only made weak lists and softpushed a lot of people. When are you going to start pushing things? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18172 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:06 Xatalos wrote: You haven't taken any hard stances at any point though. You've only made weak lists and softpushed a lot of people. When are you going to start pushing things? Hello Pot, I'm Kettle! | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
Do you seriously compare yourself to me? I've pushed several people, you haven't (unless you mean softly throwing suspicion at anyone you can). | ||
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