[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 21

He really wants to kill Vayne. this is BS
He asks Rayn a question. -SO??
Asks VE a question. -SO??
Now he wants to lynch me but wants to delay the reasons. - I would just rather play 400 days since i am not all that invested in this game.

On July 18 2013 06:14 layabout wrote:
gumshoe i picked out the point which you were being dickish to me over, cus you know, i dont like that

VE always posts like that and i never said i thought he was scum, your points sucked so i thought i should point it out.

On July 17 2013 08:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
DESPITE THIS - I think it's interesting that you chose to attack me after I defended you and the way you did is making me lean that you are town and this is just a bad misunderstanding, actually. Or I did. But your phrasing is odd in your latest post. It makes it seem like the fact that I backed off AT ALL is scummy to you. Why? Should you always tunnel the first person you vote for 100% of the time? Should you ignore a persons defense under every circumstance?

If FT Is town, he knows he is town and he perceives his posts likely to be very townie. If FT defends himself from Player X who then says "ah, the way you defended yourself indicates you're town" why would FT then turn around to say "How suspicious that you think I'm town, you must be scum". If FT truly was town, wouldn't he accept that argument? If Player X (Me in this case) decides his defense is town-indicative (assuming FT is town) then player x is CORRECT and FT should feel as though his argument/defense was a success. Implying that it is scummy to defend you implies INHERENT GUILT.

Let me reference my argument against Promethelax in LX which was almost proof that he was scum:


If FT is town then I was CORRECT to back off of him considering he put in the effort to defend himself, there can't possibly be anything scummy about that INHERENTLY but in his latest post he's not even referencing the context of my change of heart he's calling it scummy IN and OF itself.

^ a more succinct way of putting it. I'll wait for FT's explanation of this, because there is another aspect to his attack on me that differs from what Promethelax did although it's getting closer and closer to Prom's confirmed scum arguments so I'll just have to wait.

On July 18 2013 06:30 Koshi wrote:
Ok, so this vote is incredible close and I am going to bed in 40 minutes. My targets are VE and Malongo. IF there is nothing solid I think I am going to vote Malongo so that everything can happen with the last votes.
VE just made a big post and I believe he proved that he is willing to keep doing that in future days. Malongo isn't doing anything and I am afraid he might up being a lurker for the rest of this game. Or keep doing these stupid posts.

On July 17 2013 23:55 marvellosity wrote:
Typical I replace in for someone easy to read. I have 15 posts total including this waste of a post, so 14 after. I've not been reading at all yet, so proper posts will come later this evening when I've had time to read and digest.

One post that I did read was FirmTofu's large post right at the start of the game. I'm fairly sure Firm did in fact lie at least once as town in his last newbie game, and defended his actions repeatedly in the obsQT of that game. I'm curious to know why the sudden change of heart about not lying as town.

On July 18 2013 04:19 gumshoe wrote:
Tofu: We really need to hear about someone other than Dh, what do you think of hapa?

On July 18 2013 06:35 slOosh wrote:

What has VE accomplished with his big post? He drops his main scum read that he has had all day, to follow general thread sentiment. How is his big post in any means a useful contribution?

I don't think FirmTofu is scum. Continuously choosing to attract attention by engaging with DrH seems really difficult for fresh off newbie games-scum to pull off.

I checked out the game and I think you have confirmation bias. His first post in Nuclear Winter is ~20 hours into the day, and his mega post is ~32 hours into the day, opposed to less than an hour in this game. I read maybe half of D1 in NWM, and the most he is called out for is inactivity.

On July 18 2013 06:42 Koshi wrote:

Nothing, but at least he posted something. What has Malongo done? Who will be easier to read, the guy that posts or the guy that doesn't post. I need a good reason not to vote Malongo.

On July 18 2013 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
16/15

PS: I'm America

Original Message From slOosh:

Since you conveniently ran out of posts, let's do this in PMs and I'll quote our dialogue.

Describe to me how the votes on me are apart from anything mechanic?

Why are you dropping your scumread on Malongo despite your grand certainty on it?

Original Message From slOosh:
Hrmm ...

What do you think of layabout's stance on PM usage?

Original Message From VisceraEyes:

No he was talking about MZ. I misread that and just never clarified it. I'll say as much in thread because it's the truth if you want, but he's not even paying any attention to the game and hasn't mentioned it so it's meh.

I just want him to die. He's not doing anything. I desire no thread presence this game because I'm trying something new this game. We'll see how it goes.

I'm under 50% of my allotted posts already. I'm not sure what more you expect of me anyway XD

Original Message From slOosh:
What's going on VE? I can see you have thoughts but you have no desire for any thread presence. Y'know. Like Carnival Cruise.

Malongo didn't even mention me or is that just another ploy?

On July 18 2013 06:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm fairly certain layabout is scum in this game, either that or a blue role playing really scared.

It's my policy never to analyze what VisceraEyes is doing. No matter what his role is - I will always come to the conclusion that VE is scum. Every single game I have read (and I have blind read several of his games I have not played with him in) I have come to the conclusion that he is 100% scum without any doubt. My opinion on VE is worthless. I have expressed this sentiment in several games (in which I am town in all of them).

So sloOsh is in the hotseat. Fine. I'll look at him in a moment, but I'm not willing to drop it just because town sentiment has changed a little bit.



No one cares or should care about your conspiracy theory.



You're correct. I rescind my meta argument against FirmTofu because I lost sight of the context. Unlike NWM, he is under direct pressure from me in this game which will of course cause him to act differently. However, I think a few things are important.

In NWM, he does a good job sticking to the point. He chooses to come swinging out of the gate with a "megapost" which contains absolutely no useful information. I define useful information as anything that will lead to the lynching of scum. Setup analysis is fine Day 1 because it generates discussion -> discussion leads to finding scum. However there is a particular sort of setup analysis/fluff post that comes out Day 1 that is troubling. That is the sort of post that is designed to portray the poster in the towniest light possible without being actually constructive. Rather than reading into the sort of things being said, it's important to look at the tone.

In his attacks on me, he has continually misrepresented/twisted my positions/actions and jumped to conclusions rather quickly.

---

---

1. FirmTofu stated that sloOsh was making a consolidated effort to prevent people from PMing.
This is false. sloOsh states that people who do not know how to mason constructively, should not do it at all. I do not agree with this point, but it is not a "consolidated effort". It is just sloOsh's position on how PMs should be utilized in a game. I would not be surprised if this is an opinion sloOsh had coming into the game, before he received his alignment. Arguing about this particular statement by sloOsh is absurd.

2. FirmTofu states that by claiming the above point, I am thereby giving a strong townread on sloOsh.
Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point.

3. FirmTofu isn't making a real effort to start a bandwagon on me NOR is he posting cases in a constructive manner.
Read FirmTofu's first case on me. It's very reactive, filled with misunderstandings and irrelevant information and thoughts on other happenings/players. A strong characteristic of his play in NWM is the surgical manner in which he approachs his scumreads. A huge majority of the content in his cases is filled with quotes from the accused player, he dedicates his entire post to this approach. Rather, he is being far more vague, accusing me of lying without specifying clearly and constructively what my lie is.

Imagine you are town and I am scum in this game. You caught me in (apparently) a very obvious lie. What do you do?

There is only one answer. Bring down the hammer of justice. There is no way a town FirmTofu isn't trying very hard to get me lynched right now, unless he is scum. I still don't even know what he is accusing me of lying about, which means he is doing a very unconvincing job of demonstrating what exactly I'm doing wrong. His cases in NWN were way more logical than this and I refuse to believe he simply became much much worse as a town player over the course of a week or so.

I already explained why I originally stopped attacking FirmTofu and WHY I changed my mind. When I said I thought FirmTofu was town - this was related to him defending the pressure that was on him early in the game (related to his post about the traitor and nothing else). This occurred BEFORE he made a post calling me out for not attacking sloOsh and then both misrepresenting sloOsh AND myself. There is another window of time here that is critical but I need to reconsult filters to make sure I'm not remembering things wrong. <- If this is my "so called lie", then he's full of shit.

When he told me that it was suspicious for not attacking sloOsh for discouraging PMing when I had criticized VayneAuthority for that, I told him "I didn't read sloOsh's post." FT claimed I was probably lying. However, I have no way to prove/argue this otherwise. There is nothing I can point to that would somehow prove I did or didn't read sloOsh's post at the time. But this is a shit argument. Regardless of the fact that they were saying completely different things about the PM mechanics at the time, this is a classic mafia tactic. Someone attacks the lurker who is on your team? Ask them why they're ignoring lurker Y and call them scum! These are shit arguments. No one has the diligence to pressure every player in the game at the same time.

Yeah but why would a newbie scum like FT even argue with you?

Why not?

Why would a scum FirmTofu be particularly afraid of me? I can think of several games in where I had drawn out arguments with scum, newer scum, every type of scum. That's more WIFOM than a meta argument. Some wine is easier to drink. In Arkham City Mafia: scum were assigned specifically to attack/annoy me because Radfield knew my style of play. I tend to get either tunnel-vision in these situations, or lose confidence and become ineffective for the rest of the game.

If you start to think of the games in these terms, town already lost. Do yourself a favor and google "no true scotsman".

Based on this information I'm inclined to believe that sloOsh is the mafia bandwagon.

Can you explain what you found odd about Vayne in your first PM please?

On July 18 2013 06:14 layabout wrote:
gumshoe i picked out the point which you were being dickish to me over, cus you know, i dont like that

VE always posts like that and i never said i thought he was scum, your points sucked so i thought i should point it out.

On July 17 2013 06:00 layabout wrote:

I really want to kill vayne. Why sign up to a pm game if you are not going to use them? They benefit town the vast majority of the time.