EPTYou bring up two things:
1. Me saying I didn't read sloOsh's post
2. Me backing off of you
both of which I have explained at least three times each now. Why won't you tell me what I'm missing?
[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 22
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
You bring up two things: 1. Me saying I didn't read sloOsh's post 2. Me backing off of you both of which I have explained at least three times each now. Why won't you tell me what I'm missing? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
Would you say that you are playing different from the Nuclear game? If so, what is different? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I just reread your posts and it's absolutely unclear as to what you are accusing me of lying about? You bring up two things: 1. Me saying I didn't read sloOsh's post 2. Me backing off of you both of which I have explained at least three times each now. Why won't you tell me what I'm missing? Okay, I will point out the exact questions that are relevant to the lying. On July 17 2013 10:56 FirmTofu wrote: 1) Why did you tell Oats, "FirmTofu is confirmed scum." when you backed off of me? We know that you had this conversation after you backed off, but before you started flinging shit at me. I want to know why. 2) Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him as if he was 100% confirmed town? A townie in this position would not be so quick to deduce slOosh's alignment based on one post, so why did you feel the need to defend him so vehemently? Expanding on my questions: 1) My gripe was not with you backing off of me. That is not alignment indicative. I had a problem with the inconsistency of you backing off of me and sending Oats an completely different message. It indicated that you were lying. 2) I had a problem with your behavior here. You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
And rereading SlOosh, I actually feel dumb cause he got heavily misrepresented at the start by Rayn/Hapa/FirmTofu, that doesn't change the fact that he lacked a scumhunting effort until his comeback into a thread with the sentiment to lynch VE. SlOosh should have some more time to show if his scumhunting is genuine. Nevertheless, I think ace should be lynched today,, or anyone being a lurker. This "leave it to the blues" attitude is like a virus of stupidity that spread through the forums at some point. There is no fucking point in not lynching someone who is either actively useless or detrimental, or openly mocks town, especially Day 1 when there's a high chance of crapshooting. VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace. Scum's ideal D1 strategy is to keep their head low. Tendentially, you can't easily shit over someone who doesn't post anything you could use against him. And if you try to lynch him, the "leave it to the vigs" jubjubs come out of the holes to call the policy lynch decision bad, when it's simply a legit way for scum to play (to the point of being considered a policy lynch). | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:09 Koshi wrote: FirmTofu Would you say that you are playing different from the Nuclear game? If so, what is different? I would not say I am playing different at all. Stylistically, I am playing exactly the same. I push my reads with no fear. I call people out when I feel that they have inconsistencies in their behavior. Activity-wise, I would say I have been equally active, if not more active in this game specifically. In NWM, I was busy for most of the weekend and there were more posts to read to it was hard to keep up with the thread. In this game, I am able to stay more active and push my reads because I have less catching up to do. I am running out of posts. Could I get a small donation from someone? Thanks! | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace. If he truly is dayvigi, why can't we ask him to prove it by shooting a lurker? Why doesn't he shoot Ace? I don't see his role claim absolving anything unless he can prove it. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
I'm kinda annoyed Vivax is posting coherently and in detail, thought he was pretty scummy from his first long bollocks post, but apparently not. Would love me some Vivax lynching. Moving on. I think VE is a bad lynch. Don't really see why he should be scum other than the normal reasons people jump all over his ass every game. Logs with Vivax seem to indicate some thought. On July 18 2013 03:09 HiroPro wrote: VE do you even realize that Malongo has never posted anything about sloosh? In other news, I'm like 95% certain that sloosh is mafia. 95%? Don't throw out numbers if you're not gonna justify how you're THAT sure he's scum. so why? I'm not 100% sure I buy Firm's reasoning for switching his stance on lying as town. I don't get why the fact it's a closed setup means that lying is suddenly totally awful, whereas in a semi-open setup you can lie repeatedly. Makes no sense. Further, I don't like how his suspicion of DrH went. By about page 16-17 (I just read the whole game in a row) I was thinking DrH looked really quite town, and Firm's continued suspicion of him seemed pretty off. I also don't like how he's graciously now calling DrH less suspect, without actually responding to DrH's case on him. On July 18 2013 06:41 FirmTofu wrote: I will be voting VE. He hasn't said anything to convince me that he isn't scum and many people share my sentiment of him. He is much more likely to get lynched than DrH and is a far better lynch than slOosh. ##Unvote:DrH ##Vote: VisceraEyes *Why* is VE a far better lynch than slOosh? This is just saying things. I literally can't see the rationale for slOosh having played so townie (he hasn't) that he's a much worse lynch than VE. Finally, if VE is right that Chez is smurfing as Kholly (I assume it was the edited out post Chez made?) then Kholly is actually a good lynch. I've no idea how to be certain enough to gamble the whole lynch though. If Kholly IS Chez, this kinda post is really bad: On July 17 2013 06:34 kholly wrote: First impressions: DoctorHelvetica VayneAuthority Hapahauli gumshoe All the names there were the townier names in the thread at that point. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
1. I didn't say that. Oats said I said that. Here is what I said (and I've posted the entire PM logs, another reason I think oats is scum.) Here is what I said: FirmTofu is in a position where he has a direct argument opportunity with me but wants to misdirect attention onto lurkers instead that's bad if he doesn't respond to what I said about sloOsh because somehow kushm4sta is more interesting then I'm absolutely voting for him. 2. And here is what I said about sloOsh: On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting! slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.) slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way. How could anybody interpret this as a strong townread? You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. But I'm NOT REACTING to his alignment. Strongly. Or otherwise. I'm explaining why what he is doing isn't a "consolidated effort". I mention the word townie ONCE! slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. Scum can easily fake townie perspectives. This hardly counts as a hard and intense reaction. In fact it is much softer and less reactive than your accusation of a "consolidated effort" which is ridiculous considering it is - as you emphasize - a single post. Yet you're calling me a liar here again - Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him How do you know I pretended? You're assuming - confirmation bias - you were told to attack me and need a reason. You're the one that's backtracking. 1. Do you believe I lied about having missed sloOsh's post initially? 2. Looking at those two posts next to eachother, who's the one really having a strong reaction here? Now you're semi-dropping the argument, you won't concede that I'm not a liar or that I'm town but you can't go after me because you don't actually have any ammunition. Weird. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
VE should shoot oatsmaster or kholly | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: Ok, everyone who votes VE now is dumb. And rereading SlOosh, I actually feel dumb cause he got heavily misrepresented at the start by Rayn/Hapa/FirmTofu, that doesn't change the fact that he lacked a scumhunting effort until his comeback into a thread with the sentiment to lynch VE. SlOosh should have some more time to show if his scumhunting is genuine. Nevertheless, I think ace should be lynched today,, or anyone being a lurker. This "leave it to the blues" attitude is like a virus of stupidity that spread through the forums at some point. There is no fucking point in not lynching someone who is either actively useless or detrimental, or openly mocks town, especially Day 1 when there's a high chance of crapshooting. VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace. Scum's ideal D1 strategy is to keep their head low. Tendentially, you can't easily shit over someone who doesn't post anything you could use against him. And if you try to lynch him, the "leave it to the vigs" jubjubs come out of the holes to call the policy lynch decision bad, when it's simply a legit way for scum to play (to the point of being considered a policy lynch). Why hasn't VE shot Malongo or me then? And why the preference for Ace? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:04 slOosh wrote: Nothing. No real reads, no desire to engage me either to read me or get reads on other people, and he only started "pushing" Malongo after I sent this message. He is typically one of the most dominant thread presences in all his town games and only tends to lurk (if ever) in his scum games. ##Vote: VisceraEyes This is some prime bullshit by the way slOosh. Anyone who knows VE also knows that in the past several months he's been significantly less active in general, in both his town and scum games. What's particularly ridiculous is that you're calling him out for lurking (?) when this is a post-count restriction game and he's used up almost all his posts already. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:08 slOosh wrote: VE has been dicking around the whole game and he throws out his main scum read despite having much conviction in it, just to go with the flow. When have you seen a town VisceraEyes cede so easily? You haven't because he doesn't exist. Oh don't even try this. If viscera hadnt unvoted, you would be in here clamoring about how viscera was wasting his vote and had no good reasons. Marvel, just check my filter. I think I explained after that. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
#vote Malongo | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Original Message From kholly: Knolly:Hello gumshoe, : This is Unizehc speaking. I was under the impression that your teammates could translate Chezinu's cryptic messages. You have survived the troll test because you are still speaking to me. Most mafia members would ignore the trollish. So, let us get down to serious business. I will speak as if American English is my native tongue. What do you think about VE? Why do you think there is a bandwagon forming against him? Why is there so much resistance to lynching Dr.H? Why does mafia want kholly to live? Original Message From gumshoe: Is english not your native tongue? maybe we can use google translate to talk, whats your first language? 1: No one can translate Chez's posting because he doesn't want to be understood, he plays to have fun and having fun for him is about sowing chaos and disorder, hes an anti town fixture even when hes town. 2: I think people are picking and choosing which shallow argument they want to attack based off agenda or preference. Yes Ve is wishy washy but so is Sloosh or Firm Tofu or Malongo, I think mafia are trying to throw the thread in as many directions as possible, taking advantage of what will remain an undeveloped thread (because of the posting limit). This day 1 is exceptionally hard for us, I'm sure at least one person on the Ve wagon or Sloosh wagon is scum but no more than that. They wont act as a cohesive group so early on. Rather watch out for the people who bandwagon new accusations. 3: I think theres alot of resistance to Dh because he reads town to alot of people based off his posting, me included, the stuff with oats and him pming one another is fishy though. I dont think scum are actively pushing or defending one target. 4: What makes you think mafia wants you alive? Who do you think is mafia? 5: What do you think of Koshi and Hapahauli? Knolly :No one is lynching me besides you for one. Have you seen my list? Koshi,,, koshi....kosh..eee.... Yeah, I'll read the thread later. ---------------------------------------------- Original Message From gumshoe: how do you feel about strong and big? Knoly: He is very generous to Dr. Evil... ------------------------------------ Gumshoe:Hey, let's talk. What did you mean earlier about traps? Why did you feel the need to mention the possibility of you bieng traitor? How do you feel about OAts and Mon? Knolly Do you still think I'm scum? Why? Who do you wanna lynch if not me? Who else are you pming if anyone? YAY!!! SOMEONE TO TALK TOO!!!! YOU THE BESTEST FRIEND EVER!!! What did you mean earlier about traps? The more the mafia knows the more they can coordinate. I have tons of exp in this PM games. We Gotz to keep them in the dark Why did you feel the need to mention the possibility of you bieng traitor? I no did that. How do you feel about OAts and Mon? Oats - he wants to live and not be perceived as scum no matter the alignment. If scum, he would bus teammates. Well, I called him out on it... so that could counteract... or he can call me crazy. . . cause you know... I'm so so crazy. Mon? who's that? Monday? Monster? Do you still think I'm scum? Why? Who do you wanna lynch if not me? Who else are you pming if anyone? You see, I was getting lonely and just wanted someone to talk too. Cause you know, scummy people are fun. BUT YOU KNOW, trying to get yourself lynched is a hard thing to do. Btw, you did a townie thing by pming me. As I said earlier, I'm talking to town (not sure how you read the word traitor here -- was obv referring to who I was pming. I feel like the people I have talked to are town. So what's going on in PM LAND?!?!?!?! PS: YOU KNOWS ME CAUSE AUSTIN KNOWS SHHHHHHH TROLOLOLOLOLOL THIS IS R NNOTT FAKE PMs!!!! ------------------------------------------------- Knolly: Are you mafia? Who do you think I am? Reading Time with kholly Hello ladies and gentlemen. To counteract the post limit, I will try to address the whole thread in one post. On July 16 2013 12:35 kushm4sta wrote: sup sup On July 16 2013 12:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys! I'm going to be keeping a running tally of my posts to try and remind myself that I can't spam in this game as I'm wont to do. Feel free to PM me though, because though the mods can remove my ability to spam the thread, they cannot remove my desire to allow my thoughts on players and their motives to freeflow...though with as many superior scumhunters as are in this game, I wouldn't be surprised or offended if you don't. Just throwing that out there. I will say that I think most players should hold back at least one of their mason choices for past D1. The threat of masoning scum is always there, plus if you just start masoning strong scumhunters you run the risk of them eating it N1. It's probably just best practice to mason people you trust, and though you might think that goes without saying people play this game in a really weird way sometimes. Freely I will feel in Pming you my dear fear and humble master. I am more than a mere ghost now for I have the power of possession. I allow my thoughts on players too, like this one. I being not most players, will not hold back. Masoning scum? Challenge accepted. On Ju What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game. ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later. For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."ly 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum. Why are you looking for odd player choices? Are you saying making friends in the bestest PM Land mafia sprouts red? Don't worry, I'm am watching people like you waste their posts. Why you no follow you own advice? Good thing you never said that and only asked for more posts On July 16 2013 12:49 kushm4sta wrote: haha wow you two's posts were just about as useless as mine. Why would you tell scum how not to play... hehe, you funny On July 16 2013 12:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: You should explain why its a trap then. I disagree, at least I'm getting the ball rolling. The post limit and pm system are unique about this game, its a better way of digging at people's attitudes than random ads lurker votes. Them mafia is getting in on our privacy! They want to know when we are sleeping and when we are hunting. They want to spread thems lies! On July 16 2013 13:05 FirmTofu wrote: FirmTofu's MegaKickstarting Post: Hey y'all! I know I've been waiting for this game for a long time and I'm sure you all have as well. This game is somewhat non-standard, so there are a few things I'd like to address before we get started. Show nested quote + Because this setup is closed, we have to make sure we do not make any unnecessary assumptions that center around speculation about the roles. Speculation is largely a waste of time given the amount of information provided in the OP, so we should stick to the basics. Additionally, we definitely should not be directing blue roles that we aren't even sure exist. Big Plays: If you think of some mastermind play that you think will fool mafia and confuse them, please don't use it. As brilliant as your plan may be, a closed setup has too many variables to account for and your plan could potentially confuse the town more than the mafia. Lying: If you are town, DO NOT lie. If all of town follows this rule, we can separate town and mafia into two distinct categories, liars and non-liars, respectively. We can lynch liars without fear of them flipping town AS LONG AS every town member strictly adheres to this rule. The Traitor: Show nested quote + 5 mafia, 1 traitor. Anyone up for some math? 5/24=0.20833333333 (5+1)/24=0.25 The one traitor adds about 4% to the strength of the team. As the game progresses, the denominator gets lower. Assuming we don't get insanely lucky, the percentage of mafia will increase over time. The influence of the traitor will start to compound and he will become a greater threat. We obviously need to keep an eye out for the traitor, but specifically hunting for him in the early days will be a waste of resources, in my opinion. How to catch the traitor! The traitor might get antsy and try to drop a few hints for mafia to pick up (to try and join them). We need to stay vigilant to find these subtle hints and make sure we call them out as soon as we see them. PMs: I'm thinking that we should choose our best town reads as PM targets. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this mechanic, so if a more experienced player can give his thoughts about it, that would be great. This goes without saying, but remember to choose your pm targets wisely! This means NOT wasting both of your choices on Day 1 based on weak reads. Post Count Limit: We have a moderately strict 20 post limit during day. This means absolutely NO one-liner posts. Try to make longer posts that include multiple quotes. Respond to multiple points simultaneously. If you want to give your reads, do it all in one post. We need people to also save posts to ensure they can respond to accusations should they be accused. Plan ahead. Most of this stuff should be obvious, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Alright, that's all I've got for now. Let's have a good, clean game. GL HF! This guy is right. If you speculate, you could be the crazy conspiracy nut like me. Yeah, let's not lie. It hurts the town. Spot the traitor is fun. If your bad enough, mafia might think your the traitor. On July 16 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote: VE is scum, and Im town. Game too ez. In other news, Firmtofu pre typed that and its not alignment indicative. Pming people isnt a big deal and should be claimed, but honestly, if you dont mason a strong town read, you be bad or scum. How does that make me bad? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone get anything out of this? Just seems ridicules to me. I cant imagine someone just sitting at a computer compiling quotes and planting subtle crazy messages for half an hour just to troll one person as scum... Knolly not my first scum pick anymore but if anyone thinks this indicative of scum I can get behind his lynch. ##Unvote | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:31 marvellosity wrote: This is some prime bullshit by the way slOosh. Anyone who knows VE also knows that in the past several months he's been significantly less active in general, in both his town and scum games. What's particularly ridiculous is that you're calling him out for lurking (?) when this is a post-count restriction game and he's used up almost all his posts already. Ok so do you think he used his posts in a meaningful manner? No he hasn't, so he is lurking and skating by without saying much. If anything the post count restriction should be a motivator to make the most of your posts, but he has done the opposite. On July 18 2013 07:33 HiroPro wrote: Oh don't even try this. If viscera hadnt unvoted, you would be in here clamoring about how viscera was wasting his vote and had no good reasons. So my argument is unsound because an alternative one would exist? What kind of garbage is this? I'm going to miss the deadline so I'm giving whatever I have left for distribution. ##Donate; DrH | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:35 marvellosity wrote: No, Hiro, you really haven't. On July 18 2013 04:49 HiroPro wrote: but he is in afk lurker mode - he's barely posted and hasn't indicated a single person he finds suspicious. he's one of the most gifted town players in this game and massively struggles to put forth any effort as mafia. nobody has mentioned talking to him in PMs at all or even indicated any hint of conversation with him. It also seems quite unnatural that he still can't understand why people thought he was discouraging PM usage or why kushm4sta said he was nitpicking about that. What didn't you understand? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Not sure about slOosh. I think he's being terrible with this VE thing but... arg. But I'll probably vote anywhere to save VE if it came to that. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:40 HiroPro wrote: What didn't you understand? I don't understand where 95% comes from, like those are reasons to think he might be mafia, but to be that certain? slOosh was inactive/bad/whatever day 1 in Nomination Mafia, and (much like VE) has had a lot less time to post as of late, so I assume you've factored this in to your unusually high evaluation? | ||
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