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On July 03 2013 04:19 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 04:10 kitaman27 wrote:On July 03 2013 04:05 Crossfire99 wrote:On July 03 2013 03:50 gonzaw wrote:
The fact he shot solstice as soon as he claimed Doctor (or WOS claimed for him) which almost single-handily fucked scum, instead of like shooting me or BC or Acro, shows that he's not bullshitting with the TARDIS claim.
If he was traitor, fucking shoot me and let the lynch on solstice go through
If he was SK....then again shoot me or Acro, let town go crazy and shit, maybe misslynch more dudes, etc.
Instead he shot A GUY THAT WAS GETTING LYNCHED
That proves to me he is not SK.
Hell that could prove to me he's not traitor, since he wouldn't know the scumteam's plans by then (if he did he wouldn't have shot solstice to out the whole scumteam, scum would tell him "ehmm dude, why don't you shoot gonzaw or Acro or Xata and leave this D1 misslynch be, okay? Don't wanna get austin lynched".
I mean, unless the TARDIS is a super powerful shit that gives him 100 KP and makes him bulletproof or some shit I doubt kita would do that (if he DOESNT win with town). And if it does....then where is his 100 KP and bulletproof and shit? Gonzaw, I don't think he is a SK. I think he is an anti-town 3rd party. There is also something in role pm mentioning the TARDIS. I agree that's why he shot Solstice. But I disagree saying why would he do that if it hurt mafia. It is day 1, he doesn't know who scum were day 1. In fact he figured it out because of what he did with his shot. Look at what he did from Day 2 on and tell me how that comes from a neutral survivor and not scum-aligned survivor. An anti-town 3rd party that you are describing based on the win conditions listed in the OP has never existed in team liquid mafia history. It doesn't make sense from a game perspective and it doesn't make sense from a balance perspective. You're confusing what a neutral survivor actually means. A neutral survivor isn't neutral to both factions. He is going to pick one faction to win with and one faction to back stab. He win condition is surviving. I had an opportunity at 2v1v1 and I took it. It was an anti-town action to take a join mafia win, but a survivor is not an anti-town alignment and I can still win with town. I'm not saying neutral survivor doesnt choose a side. I'm saying he chooses the side he is most likely to win with. In this case it was town since bc shot scum day 2 and you could have too, but you decided to actively hinder town at every opportunity even though it made no sense to do so.
This is different than what you apparently said before..
Hmm...so Xfire, can you tell me exactly how anti-town kita would do that and why neutral kita wouldn't?
Do you mean something in particular, like the Dandel shot, or something else?
At that point kita's sole mission was not: dying to geript's shot, and not getting lynched. I don't think we could use D2 as evidence for anything.
Yes he could have shot austin with the TARDIS, just as easily as he could have shot Dandel. He's 3P he doesn't give a shit about pro-town stuff and that, he wants to do what's best for him.
I could see him thinking killing Dandel would be the best thing for him at that time, specially if austin/sk8 would get lynched (and he thought both were scum).
...or maybe not. I personally don't want to take that into account too much.
If you mean his later behaviour (stopping to make cases, etc), then yes it's a little worrying I suppose.
...ehmm...I dunno. It was night it'd be foolish of him to be pro-town at night without bulletproof shit. I guess he could have tried something else on D3 instead of insta-contacting scum if he knew there were only 2 of them...
...but yeah I dunno
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Just gonna note that, unless you think I'm psychic and pre-altered a couple of random posts in the middle of my conversation with geript, kita either altered his logs, selectively posted, or is lying about not knowing what happened to BC's shot.
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Didn't Kurumi claim the RB on BC or something?
Anyways that makes no sense since Zepphird didn't say anything about the role he created having a day-RB. Maybe hosts derped again and made it so the TARDIS refunds bullets without telling anybody else about it
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On July 03 2013 04:30 austinmcc wrote:
Just gonna note that, unless you think I'm psychic and pre-altered a couple of random posts in the middle of my conversation with geript, kita either altered his logs, selectively posted, or is lying about not knowing what happened to BC's shot.
Hmm, I'll think about that.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 03 2013 04:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:
(we still have no idea what happened to BC's shot refunded shot).
Show nested quote +
120
Geript
06-27-2013
07:18 PM ET (US)
yes and yes
119
austinmcc
06-27-2013
07:16 PM ET (US)
Did he kill solstice or rb BC D1? We still don't actually know what either of those things was.
There's a chance BC is actually some kind of 3P or...something. I dunno.
Dis game.
I asked geript about the RB on BC, and whether you were responsible. He said you were. Note that I posted these logs yesterday, when the rb on BC wasn't even mentioned. If I'm the one altering logs, then I had to realize YESTERDAY that the roleblock might come up, and alter logs before it was ever mentioned just to have them in the future.
You would know the roleblock might come up if you were the roleblocker. Is now a good time to point out that the mafia doesn't have a flipped roleblocker in a setup with all blues?
Furthermore, zeph confirmed my role does not have a roleblock. So if I didn't do it, town didn't do it, who did?
Furthermore, even if you didn't rb the bc shot, we have no proof that your role doesn't have any other abilities. It doesn't make sense for a role to just suddenly stop working after day two.
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On July 03 2013 04:30 gonzaw wrote:
Didn't Kurumi claim the RB on BC or something?
Anyways that makes no sense since Zepphird didn't say anything about the role he created having a day-RB. Maybe hosts derped again and made it so the TARDIS refunds bullets without telling anybody else about it
No, kurumi made him an inventor.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Also, does your 75% calculation take into account that mafia almost certainly have a bus driver or self protect in their pocket?
We've established that I'm not mafia. Therefore, mafia would have no idea what I did to the TARDIS. When I asked if the TARDIS was a worry with my day shot, they flat out replied no. You don't speak in certainty like that unless you know it's not an issue.
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The only options are:
1)Zepphird lied about the role
2)The day RB is part of kita's "alignment powers"
If (1) happened...why would town lie about that shit? Also wouldn't have Zepphird KNOW BC WAS RBed? He made a day-RBer and someone was day-RBed, wouldn't he say something?
If (2) happened...then why wasn't anybody else RBed? Is kita's day-RB only one-shot?
Why didn't he day-RB BC on D3 when BC explicitely said 100000 times he was going to shoot kita? Why didn't kita RB geript on D2 when geript MK'd him, so he could not waste his TARDIS ability?
Why didn't he RB Xfire today so he could actually vote and insta-win with scum?
What other alternative is there?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Additionally, a roleblock on a vig shot makes no sense for me. I want the game to end sooner, not extend things out. Also, I would have claimed the block for town cred long ago.
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Austin, maybe geript was just lying to you lol
Did you check if geript isn't actually a pro-town survivor that infiltrated the QT and was actively lying to you? I mean, he has a resurrection, role, what if he resurrects this N4 and decides to side with town?
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Gonzaw this sums up why I think kita is a scum-aligned 3rd party.
He knew who was scum pretty early in this game and he has quoted the numerous posts where he was suspicious of austin and geript. What doesn't make sense is this. Meapak dies and pretty much confirms austin as scum for kita. Kita claims survivor because he got too trolly and obvious. Important note here is that he is spamming up the thread with nonsense and playing antitown even though he now knows who scum are and has KP that can deal with them. He know geript and austin are scum. Geript challenges him to mortal combat but kita has the TARDIS and can do whatever he wants with it. He could have used the TARDIS to hit austin because he knows geript's ability only protects at night. This would prove that he's 3rd party working with town by killing scum. Instead of this, he kills Dandel and tries to lynch sk8r instead of austin. (Even if he thinks sk8r is scum, he is more sure of austin at this point and has been pushing him previously.) This is actively working against town. Day 3 comes along and he attempts to work with mafia!? Why if he is just a survivor does he need to work with mafia? He can just dayvig austin thus proving he is 3rd party working with town. Geript then gets lynched and worst case scenario is that scum down to 1 member. Kita then skates along and never will get nk or lynched because it isn't in scum or town's best interest to do either. But no, Kita shoots Dandel again because Dandel wants Kita dead and has been pushing it relentlessly.
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Anyways I haven't actually read all posts here since I left last night, gonna do that while I have time.
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On July 03 2013 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:
Also, does your 75% calculation take into account that mafia almost certainly have a bus driver or self protect in their pocket?
We've established that I'm not mafia. Therefore, mafia would have no idea what I did to the TARDIS. When I asked if the TARDIS was a worry with my day shot, they flat out replied no. You don't speak in certainty like that unless you know it's not an issue.
Yes, and I even might put my chances at 80%. The TARDIS is accounted for in my plans for tonight.
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Xfire, is there any time limit to using the TARDIS if someone shoots you?
Like, if someone day-vigs you 1 second into the day phase, what is the "deadline" in which you have to use the TARDIS, and if you do not you die to that shot? If you get day-vigged 1 second into the day phase, can you use the TARDIS to protect yourself 1 second before deadline? Or should it be instant?
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On July 03 2013 04:38 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:
Also, does your 75% calculation take into account that mafia almost certainly have a bus driver or self protect in their pocket?
We've established that I'm not mafia. Therefore, mafia would have no idea what I did to the TARDIS. When I asked if the TARDIS was a worry with my day shot, they flat out replied no. You don't speak in certainty like that unless you know it's not an issue. Yes, and I even might put my chances at 80%. The TARDIS is accounted for in my plans for tonight.
Well...I don't wanna put pressure on you or anything, but it's your choice then.
If we have like 80% chances of winning I don't give a shit about lynching kita either lol.
I made your role and have no idea wtf makes it so we win 80% of the time lol. Maybe hosts made it more OP without telling me > : (
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On July 03 2013 04:39 gonzaw wrote:
Xfire, is there any time limit to using the TARDIS if someone shoots you?
Like, if someone day-vigs you 1 second into the day phase, what is the "deadline" in which you have to use the TARDIS, and if you do not you die to that shot? If you get day-vigged 1 second into the day phase, can you use the TARDIS to protect yourself 1 second before deadline? Or should it be instant?
I don't know. I'd ask sk8r and kita since they both did it and I never intended for the TARDIS to be used during the day lol.
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On July 03 2013 04:30 gonzaw wrote:
Didn't Kurumi claim the RB on BC or something?
Anyways that makes no sense since Zepphird didn't say anything about the role he created having a day-RB. Maybe hosts derped again and made it so the TARDIS refunds bullets without telling anybody else about it
No, I asked about that. Kurumi claimed an action on BC, turned out to be the invention-giving and not rb. He explicitly said he wasn't the roleblocker.
On July 03 2013 04:31 kitaman27 wrote:
You would know the roleblock might come up if you were the roleblocker. Is now a good time to point out that the mafia doesn't have a flipped roleblocker in a setup with all blues? As far as me being the dastardly roleblocker - roleblock is one of the options in my nightly survey. I didn't create a role that roleblocks AND can double roleblock. Nor does it matter that we haven't seen a flipped roleblocker, because it's a PTP game...we haven't seen a flipped watcher, tracker, framer, doesn't mean they exist.
Moreover, you're suggesting that I, as mafia, roleblocked a townie one-shot day vig using his day vig on a ... townie? Why would I do that? I get a dead townie AND I get rid of a town vig shot.
Also, if I altered my logs, why did I wait until 1:30 before lynch and at the moment someone else mentioned the rb to point that out? You don't think I might have wanted to do so sooner? I didn't notice it until you mentioned that, then it clicked.
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I will only say, yes, that story you said "fits" with him being anti-town 3P
Him just being an idiot who made "bad" decisions (well...anti-town decisions, we don't know if they are bad or not really) because he was pressured, about to die, and with little time (to use TARDIS for instance), is also a story I could believe with him being neutral 3P
Again, just because he's neutral doesn't mean he HAS to do everything pro-town ever. Killing a townie that was tunneling him to level the playing field a little bit (while still pushing a lynch on scum, since well in his mind scum would get lynched today maybe) would have made more sense to him.
I dunno, I dunno how 3rd parties think I was never one, so I dunno if that's how neutral survivor would think or not
But I know he was not town so I can't really make any assertion of him being "less" or "more" town...because he is not town period, he could theoretically do whatever the fuck he wants, even if he tells the truth and is neutral survivor.
If he was anti-town why did he make cases on the guys he thought were actually scum then (specially if he wins with scum)?
Well, for now I'll vote him just in case I leave or something unexpectedly
##Unvote: austin
##Vote: kitaman
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 03 2013 04:37 Crossfire99 wrote:
He knew who was scum pretty early in this game and he has quoted the numerous posts where he was suspicious of austin and geript. What doesn't make sense is this. Meapak dies and pretty much confirms austin as scum for kita.
If austin was confirmed scum to me, then why wasn't austin confirmed scum to town? I didn't have any additional information. austin was apparently helping out town by passing out vig shots and medics. I had a suspicion that austin could be mafia, but he almost certainly was not confirmed scum to me.
On July 03 2013 04:37 Crossfire99 wrote:
Kita claims survivor because he got too trolly and obvious. Important note here is that he is spamming up the thread with nonsense and playing antitown even though he now knows who scum are and has KP that can deal with them. He know geript and austin are scum.
I do not know geript is scum. I accuse him of being scum for mortal combating me, but that is more an omgus than anything. You're making a huge leap in logic by saying I know the identities of two mafia. I don't have any more information than town has.
On July 03 2013 04:37 Crossfire99 wrote:
Geript challenges him to mortal combat but kita has the TARDIS and can do whatever he wants with it. He could have used the TARDIS to hit austin because he knows geript's ability only protects at night. This would prove that he's 3rd party working with town by killing scum. Instead of this, he kills Dandel and tries to lynch sk8r instead of austin. (Even if he thinks sk8r is scum, he is more sure of austin at this point and has been pushing him previously.)
I thought sk8r was scum just as much as austin. In fact, probably more. Remember that sk8r was my day one lynch and that I banked on the TARDIS confirming my alignment when I passed it to kurumi using the anti-mafia clause. Like I said earlier, shooting austin would have worked out better for me, but hindsight is 20/20. Why didn't you lynch the obvious scum in austin? That doesn't make you some weird anti-town survivor role.
On July 03 2013 04:37 Crossfire99 wrote:
Kita then skates along and never will get nk or lynched because it isn't in scum or town's best interest to do either.
Yes?
On July 03 2013 04:37 Crossfire99 wrote:
But no, Kita shoots Dandel again because Dandel wants Kita dead and has been pushing it relentlessly.
Exactly. Survivor mentality.
Crossfire, a scum aligned 3rd party does not exist. It has never existed. It isn't balanced. It doesn't make sense.
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I dunno gonzaw, all I know is geript said that kita was responsible for the RB. He never posted their conversation in our QT, although I shoulda thought of that and had him post it so I'd have it.
I assume that Zephir would have mentioned kita having an RB. But zephir didn't write kita's full role, because stuff like draining the TARDIS wasn't a Zephir-thing.
One thought is that, if kita has to get the TARDIS, kita can tell where it is at all times. He can't directly grab it from someone, but he can track it? He sees that sk8r starts with the TARDIS, protects sk8r, but sk8r sends the TARDIS to solstice. Kills solstice, realizing that keeping it in someone's hands does him no good, or thinking that solstice may not cooperate with the "HEY GUYS GIMME THE TARDIS" plan.
However, that still doesn't explain the rb. Maybe he just gets one? Strange, so I dunno.
All I know is I didn't rb bc, and based on what geript told me, kita altered his logs.
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EPT
