Carnival Cruise Mafia - Page 112

Single Adult (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! You heard cruises were filled with women ready to get laid so you booked your ticket. Ready to enjoy endless booze, possible drugs, and raunchy behavior your loins ripen at the thought of spreading your progeny. Bad news bro - some major cockblockers have snuck on board and plan to take over the ship. And if you know anything about the opposite sex it's that no one puts out with a gun to their head outside of a Chuck Norris flick. Stop the cockblockers from taking over the ship and ruining your fantasy on the high seas.You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!

Unregistered Sex Offender (Voyeur) - Running from the law since you're suspected of sex crimes, you end up on a cruise full of beautiful people. The alcohol infused blood now coursing through your body has heightened your voyeuristic powers to Dirk Diggler levels. You pull out your trusty x-ray binoculars and get a tingling sensation in your fingers. This time you're sure it isnt gonnorhea. At night you can target a player and find out what kind of actions were performed on them: None, investigative, protective, status modified, roleblocking or killing. You can not target the same player on consecutive nights, passive roles dont return results to you and you can not target yourself. You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck!

Jeb Bush (Vote Thief) - hailing from the mighty land of Florida, where mysticism in the arts of politics and passing fishy gun laws are rampant, you sit back and enjoy the cruise and the political backwater money funding your trip. Unfortunately the ship only hands out 1 meal ticket per passenger and this doesn't sit right with your greedy ways. At night you can coerce a drunk passenger out of his ticket by buying it off of him (steal the vote), showing up the next day to the mess hall and proving to the greedy ship waiters that you do indeed have an appetite for two. Since no one checks the names on the ticket you can just slip it in the serving trey and get a free meal (PM the mods, it will show up as "Anonymous vote" when you use it). Sadly you can't buy tickets off the poor sap on consecutive nights - he has to eat sometime. As drunk as he was when you conned him he will realize his meal ticket is missing and will be informed by the authorities he can not eat that day (no vote). You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck!

Thomas Jefferson (Framer) - in the spirit of Tupac Shakur the whole world thinks you're dead, but little do they know you were resting on the beaches of Cuba and sailing the world these past 200 years. As you prepare to embark on another cruise you see the outrageous prices for a vodka and coke (not cocaine), scoffing at the notion of your ideas of a weak central government have given way to America letting corporations run amok. No bother, you've found 3 allies (Players w, x, y, and z) also ready to skirt the fare on the high seas and enjoy life! Being a former lawyer you are well versed in tampering with evidence and public speaking. If any authorities show up and question anyone you are with (targeting that night) you can talk them into believing the person is Town or Scum. Being a Framer of the constitution has its perks. Unfortunately you can't hang out and frame the same person on consecutive nights - the authorities would find it strange. No self targeting either. Also fix your wig - you look silly. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

FC: Disco Dave (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! A blast from the past! You've been cruising since the 80s and wont stop till the sounds of that disco music stop and the glittering silver ball shatters! With an unbuttoned shirt, uncombed chest hair, gelled afro and a vile of cocaine tucked into the bottom of your shoe you're ready to party and get your wave on. Some scummy guys want to stop the party, and as all us true disco heads know the party doesn't stop till the drugs run out. Tell those jive turkies to chill! You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!

Cruise Captain (Captain) - endless voyages around the world have made you weary over the years, fueling your contempt for passengers that leave your boat without so much as a thank you or a $2 tip. You've turned to the dark side, smuggling illegal goods and teaming up with the likes of (Players w, x, y, and z) to get by. As captain of the ship you have the passenger quarters list and are aware that a Cop and a Vigilante are on board. You do not know who they are but you know they exist. At the start of the DAY you may PM the mods to send a request to each of them, asking them to perform a night action the following night on any target you choose. They will have a choice: to OBEY you or DISOBEY you. If they choose to obey you will be informed and the action will go through. If they choose to disobey you will also receive notification. If they change their mind you will also be informed. Send a PM in the form of <Tell Cop/Vigi to target Player X>. You can also choose not to send any messages and let them be. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

FC: Cruise Bartender (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! You just got out of college ready to conquer the world and make endless amounts of loot. Unfortunately you had a C average because you partied too much in the frat house. Not one to be phased by a little thing like being broke and living in your parent's basement you got a job as a bartender. Score! Pouring drinks down some chicks' throats is the only thing you were good at in school anyway. But some mean bros have showed up on the ship and want to take it over. Man that would suck worse than the time the campus police confiscated all the booze because drunk Jimmy was in the street riding a toy Big Wheel bike over the Glee Club's lawn. Good times tho! But it wont be good if these dudes get control of the boat. Stop em bro! You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!

Hammerhead Shark (Scum Hammer) - yea you read that correctly - a fucking shark!Life in the aquatic seas has been boring you for a while, so you hopped aboard this cruise ship to see what humans actually do. Shocked you are to find out what this alcohol thing is all about and the amount of human sex happening on the cruise. Everyone is even drunk enough that they don't notice a giant hammerhead shark walking around. Everyone except your scheming Scum allies (Players w, x, y, and z) that is! Being a shark you have no concept of democracy so during a vote, if you are not on a wagon and said wagon reaches L-1 where 1 vote will lynch the player you will have the option of placing the hammer vote by PMing the mods. The vote will show up in the voting list as "The Hammerer" and your original vote will be unmoved and still counted so as not to reveal your identity. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

FC: Parent with 6 kids (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! You and your spouse were supposed to be on a family trip with all your kids around the world. This cruise was the perfect family bonding experience to bring your hearts back together. Alas, he ditched you and the kids back in Thailand when he find out how far the American dollar goes when prostitution is concerned. Now you're stuck with 6 bratty, angst filled kids for the rest of the trip. Over the loudspeaker you hear an announcement that the ship is being taken over by some bad guys. Maybe they'll kill your kids and rid you of this headache? Nah, that wouldn't be very parental of you. Your kids need you, and besides you will need to claim all of them in court papers when you file for divorce. Get rid of the bad guys, dont let them lower America's divorce rate. It's the only natural resource we have left. You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!

Bullet Tooth Tony (Mafia Tough Guy) - hailing from the foreign land of The United Kingdom you show up to the cruise and what do you find? The rotten stink of American Capitalism. You turn up your nose in contempt at the price of a fucking beer on this cruise, aware that even the lowdown pubs in South Hampton ain't this shitty. Your anger leads you to joing up with other unscrupulous forces (Players w, x, y and z). Since you're actually a mobster, or you just played one on the set of Snatch and no one can tell if this is real life, you've got the tough guy thing already down and are always ready for a good scrum. You've snuck a 2-shot bulletproof vest on board the cruise so if anyone tries to harm you while you sleep, you will survive unless enough attackers go after you. Typical, since it took the French and the Americans to beat you in that war that spawned the USA.You can also choose to give the vest to any player in the game for a night (removing your own protection), protecting them from however many kills the vest can stop. (ie a 3 shot vest being hit twice turns it into a 1 shot vest for the rest of the game). You can not give the vest to the same player on consecutive nights (doesnt apply to yourself). Being roleblocked in any form will stop you from being able to give the vest away as it counts as an action. Anyone shot while wearing the vest will be informed of the attack. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

FC: Drunken Brawler (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! SO. MUCH. LIQUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! Oh hell fuckin yes! Shelves upon shelves of that sparkly goodness! And nothing makes you more excited than being drunk than fighting. And fighting drunk is the best thing ever when you cant feel the pain of taking an iron crowbar to the face. Some sober panzies are trying to take over the ship and they dont fight with fists - they use guns. Bad news for you. Stop em before they pour all the alcohol in the sea and fight you with a gun butt to the back of the skull. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

Spongebob Scumpants (Absorber) - freed from the shackles of cartoon television you want to return to your natural water-borne environment. You've played the good guy on tv for far too long and its time to change sides. Your allies are (w, x, y, z) and its time to take over the cruise ship so you can set sail for dark waters. If you are night targeted by any non-Scum aligned powerrole and survive to the next day you will absorb that role for use (one use only) up to the next night. If you do not use it on the next night the power will be lost. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

FC: Micky Arison (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! You're the renowned international celebrity owner of the Miami Heat basketball team Micky Arison! You're also the billionaire owner of Carnival Cruise lines! Clearly you didn't pay to be on this ship. Then you get an emergency text message on your phone telling you some dickheads are trying to take over the ship. At first you think its just LeBron and Dwyane pulling another silly prank, but you remember they are currently playing the Chicago Bulls in the playoffs. Shit just got real. If the ship is taken over insurance will go through the roof. You've just finished getting through your latest PR disaster when the CC Spirit crashed in Italy. Stop them from ruining your empire. Besides - how bad would it suck if you had to sell the Miami Heat when you win your second championship because you have to cover your losses? Damn. Hurry up. You win when you control at least half the voting power of the cruise (town) at the beginning of the day and/ or nothing can stop you from doing so. Good luck!

Day 1:

DarthPunk starts the game in Night 0 with a self aware Miller claim. Sadly, people want to call him scummy for it immediately. DP makes a slight mistake by bringing up a WIFOM scenario saying he doesn't need to do so as Scum. It isn't a bad play - but with this playerbase (he might not know them) they are rabid and dont think, or dont know of alternate scenarios.

The simple Town scenario does exist: he is a self aware Miller that is trying to avoid a cop check. If he doesnt claim and is lynched later jub jubs will blame him for not claiming. So he claims at the earliest time possible to get it out of the way. Town should collectively take a wait and see approach. Self aware Millers aren't rare, and possibly better in a closed setup. The town has no way of knowing the number which is why the claim is partially bad (really, just problematic early on at worst), but its equally bad to get rid of him immediately. DP does the right thing and says to eventually vigi him if they dont believe him but not to mislynch him. If I was Town I'd lean on him being Town and take a wait and see approach.

Rayne who can be an asset decides to go into immediate tunnel mode. He makes a HUGE mistake saying DP should be scumhunting right now. We're going to ignore the fact that what constitutes scumhunting is subjective and just focus on the game being 11 pages long and DP having to explain himself to everyone doubting him. Why even undermine him if you are Town? Versus good players you're just asking to be underminded yourself because its just a ridiculous post to make. Lo and behold right now rayne has been targeted by the vigilante for a Night0 kill. It wont even be considered a bad shot because of that post.

Also from a personal note I'd rather keep DP around anyway. From memory he is super useful to have around as he thinks things through before he posts. One of the better players to play with especially if you're logical and need support from people that actually read the thread objectively.

Not sure what OO is doing but nitpicking DP to death isn't doing any wonders. It's a miller claim, not a scum claim. Just leave him alone for now and do something else. It is Night 0 after all - do people not fear being shot by Vigilantes for being antagonistic so early on?

chaoser shows up and attempts to stop the argument - steering discussion away from it by asking both of them what they think of other people. I'd probably give him a small nod for Town favor here as Scum would probably want them to keep arguing and get night killed.

Apparantly DP did his job because he is targeted for Scum Nk at the moment. Which imo is a good play by Scum because DP may not get lynched Day 1 and end up becoming valuable. Better than a random shot right now except if they want to power role hunt. Either way this is a win/win for them: game starts with finger pointing, a role claim in addittion to them knowing at least 1 Cop and Vigilante exist, and none of them under suspicion yet.

shirokami writes: I dont have much history with miller-claims, and Im not eating this claim before he contributes into at least 1 scumlynch.

This actually is a solid post in case DP is lying. At least Scum would know that if DP doesnt try, or appear to lead a lynch on Scum he might get ran up on.

Poor fucking kita: in addition to being targeted by the SK minutes into the game, now Scum is debating on shooting him. Dude must be on a scum killing rampage to get fucked over this bad. This is by fay the BEST outcome possible for an SK: Scum hits his target and the vigi rescinded his shot on rayne. 1 person shows up dead Day 1 = hidden KP. Nice!

Scum changed to hit DP, and Cop chose not to investigate Blazing Hand. Going to be an interesting Day start! Town might think the 2nd hit was a vigilante and not realize it was an SK. Scum of course shot DP and probably know no vigi would have shot kita Night0 unless they were remarkeably dumb. So they may be alerted to the presence of 3rd party.

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well while Vayne is right that prp is scum, saying hi to kita is a lol reason. prp should be able to eat that accusation with ease. Even funnier since Scum actually didn't kill him and hit DP. WOuld be so screwed if they end up taking the fall for the SKs hit.

super random but 4 of the scum team have been called out, and the serial killer too. all by the cop who will probably be shot at this rate lol. weird - because if it happens I bet no one will go back and read his posts.

There are some high level professional trolls and gifrollers in this game. Makes me shed a tear at the quality of lulz displayed so far and its only page 19.

Currently Promethelax is doing a good job. He deflected some light suspicion, spoke up for rayn (always good to have a super tunneler look at someone other than you!), and is doing a passable job of being active early. This could potentially reap benefits later as we all know thise that seem to post a lot are never included in the dreaded "inactivity" pool. Which is code for "please vigi me" in my games.

Interesting that Promethelax and Vivax have a history of tunneling each other. One has a gun, the other also has a gun and a bulletproof vest. This could end badly. If I'm an infinite shot vigi I'd be a bit careful if I think the guy is scum and will NK me.

Hold up - is Prome copying my "buddy rayne and corral him into my voting block" approach from LXI when I was SK? /shameless plug

I think by now most of these players should be able to call bs on claiming people are scum for not posting enough or "not scumhunting" which are usually empty arguments. There is a sharp divide between actual effort - looking for intent in people's posts and generating discussion that advances the game, and bs that is just nitpicking at low quality stuff like "you're being aggressive and you normally aren't" that doesnt move the needle. One of these types of players is actually trying to understand the game and is most likely in a ProTown mindset. The other is anti-town behavior because it is biased already and calls people out on something that usually doesn't even matter - stuff Scum, antaganostic, and bad players like to do. Good luck dealing with that when several are posting at the same time.

Also WoS is being called out for playing like an asshole. Whether its true or not from experience I'll tell you - as Town since you need people to help you push lynches if you're seriously not being an asshole for further gain down the road just stop and "play nice". People are far more willing to sheep you. You could claim a dt check on scum and players will be skeptical to vote with you because you're a dick.

ANd as I return home I see Oatsmaster, the Cop, catching major flak for what looks to be stirring things up. Hope he's good at arguing.

Another thing that would tilt my gun towards players if I'm a vigilante: "i've seen scum/town do this once before so it's just as likely it will happen in this game". Just no. This is straight up false and this kind of logical fallacy should be hammered by Town paying attention and reading the thread. This kind of thinking can lead to anti-town players justifying all types of bullshit scenarios to get a wagon moving.

A few of the Scum team members are all posting right now throwing dirt on WoS and Oats - aided by the SK. This is awesome because they are quoting posts and coming to conclusions making themselves look active. Good luck being Town trying to pick out whats a bad argument there. They all look loosely buddied up at worst and it is multiple people undermining 2 guys that have been receiving some flak for a while. I can see a double townie wagon forming soon.

sl0osh wrote: Oats do you think WoS is scum or not?

This is right after WoS goes tunnel mode and drops a vote on Oats. Nice way to start a townie fight. He doesn't know it but WoS has the gladiator role and is being way too impulsive. Imagine he uses it on Oats and gets the Cop lynched. SHITSTORM FROM HELL!

Hirpro wrote: BH, do you actually believe that WaveofShadow is trying to blend in with his posts? Is there a reason that you haven't mentioned players like shirokami or prplhz?

Obvious, point out exactly where I implied that mechanics are more important than behavioral analysis. I haven't made any such statement.

Super protown points for this. Scum need to kill him right now - if the Townies picked up on it. Intent to understand whats going on >>>>>> dudes coming to quick conclusions early on. Keep this guy around at all costs if you're town.

Amazing that ObviousOne is once again being antagonistic. The only people that will support his lynches are Scum at the moment. He doesnt have any Town cred yet - can't be an asshole without it or the stupid "vet" cred people freely give out.

and now the wagon on OO starts. If Town loses I dont want to hear any complaints when 2 of their important power roles stick their neck out so crazy on Day 1. OO not using his head and thinking critically about DP's claim is being brought up by HiroPro who has a real solid point. If you're Town maybe its not a good idea to be in LYNCH HIM IMMEDIATELY mode on Night 0. I mean - when else would a self aware miller claim? o.0

the kicker?
the last list post where he said three people that would be good lynches looks like a straight fluff post. there's almost nothing in that post that's actually relevant to this game (most of it is just a lazy attempt at "meta") and what little is there isn't even true. He doesn't even say anything about oatsmaster beyond "i'm not sure how to tell if he's mafia. i'll look at his games later".

also note the way that obviousone responds to any accusations or suspicion which actually have reasons behind them (not just "oh you scum"). in almost all cases he responds with some irrelevant comment and tries to brush it away. in general this is something that mafia are much more likely to do instead of trying to explain their own actions further.


Damning at the moment. Some people can get away with laziness, some can't. Good idea to know how people perceive you before you post stuff. Whether OO was lazy or not doesn't even matter because the Scum are active and probably will push this wagon.

OO's response to HiroPro:
You ready to die after I flip? This is a serious question. You can tunnel me all day but you still haven't done fuck all original and if lynching me is going to be your claim to towniness you might want to start tightening your sphincter.

Well, definitely fucked now. Imagine for a second that HiroPro is Town. So you are already blaming your future death on him. Clearly you dont want to lynch Townies but who do you think will run with the Hiro is scum for lynching our Power Role sentiment? Its going to be scum, possibly fronted by the tunnelers. Really need to hope a cooler headed Townie shows up and derails this possible shitstorm.

Wos calls Bh out for posting bullshit. Too bad he doesnt follow it up with a vote. Oh well.

people are already reading filters. no wonder they get so easily sidetracked - no sense of context. There are 3 important people right now: BH, WoS, and Oats with OO and prp right there too. This isn't the time to be filter diving. Just read them from the start and see how people got to their conclusions.

rayne is still stuck on using meta and calling people out for being careful. Unfortunately the two he has are both Town. Unless you know for a fact that someon'e posting style is a tell (ultra rare) then dont even bring it up as something to talk about. Not unless you have some other stuff to go with it. It's weak and doesnt move the thread anywhere. What meaningful response do you expect to get back that isn't easily justified by Scum or Town?

chaoser shows up with his super thinking cap on and lobs a fucking grenade at Prome. I've got 6 to 1 odds it gets picked up on. Prom's answer can probably be "lol wut" cuz people aren't paying attention (Scum are but they could care less about quality Town posts at the moment) - 3 pages later no one else references it. I win.


"As he claimed miller he should have not defended himself and his claim after that. Of course people are going to jump on a scummy claim like that". <---I'd probably vigi someone for writing this

BH is just lobbing WIFOM bananas around, complete with subtle bullshit stickers coupled with solid play advice and coming off nicely. All the little suspicions against him will probably be gone soon.

rayne has too many suspects at the moment. way too many. I know he's trying to figure stuff out but I pray he has a notepad narrowing things down. He is everywhere and no where right now and he can easily do better.

BH wrote: Clearly your goal is to paint me as scum rather than figure out if I am scum, because I literally make posts like this in every game. There is a simple counter argument to it - if you keep doing things you know are scummy you should get lynched for it. Too bad WoS doesnt have a vote on BH right now because he also thinks Oats is scum. Good luck rebutting this. But Bh saying WoS is just painting him as Scum and not actually calling him scum is dead on.

Well good luck WoS. Shoulda thrown a vote on BH earlier to show you meant serious business. I think he was trying to actually understand if BH was misguided or really scum but arguing with the guy resulted in lol OMGUS and now his little wagon is forming. He doesn't need to worry yet since it is still small.

There are so many meta references to past games you can tell why people are lost. People misuse it so badly I'm amazed how Towns actually manage to win games.

shit...BH. You were doing so well. Attacking Vivax who ALREADY has sheeped your vote? Do you want to derail the wagon and have him turn against you? why why why!? Add in VE's post before yours saying he thinks your town but WoS might be a wrong target.../sadface. Don't piss off potential allies.

--------- 5 hours before Day 1 ends
Just got home to read the thread, WOS is in deep shit. Spazzing out of control and trying to convince people to vote OO it seems. He's getting ignored. Ouch. Scum team told the Cop to target Grush. Not sure why since they framed him last night but w/e.

Vivax is quoting a WoS post from another game. /facepalm
People aren't static - they can play the same alignment in different ways. This is especially true of newer players who have few games and dont have an established style yet. They will learn the hard way.

I still can't believe suspicions are based on people commenting on a Night Kill. Seriously - that isn't a tell one way or another. What else is someone going to talk about after Night 0? so much derp - except from the Scum and Prome who keep urging the Town to swallow the bullshit pies.

Finally figured out how vote stealing works. Well glad thats over. They havent thought it through and one guy assumes vote stealing = scum power. Not unless there are other voting mechanics in play to seriously hamper it. If the Scum team ever gets a voting thief they get one of the most overpowered roles possible for them. Better than godfather, 1 shot scum vigi, framer and bulletproof. They get more powerful in the day game (their weakest phase) and are guaranteed to hit town for a vote awinf of +2 and one vote closer to majority. Thats brutal. If you currently believe Scum also has 2KP then holy shit Town would need some monster power roles to survive.

WoS thinks BH is playing poor but the Scum team is doing what they should be against the Town - throwing so many cases around to see what shit sticks. WoS sees it but he already pissed off a bunch of people. So now it takes extra effort to get them to see. Not going to work when the rest of the guys are in tunnel mode.
There is 1 redeeming quality that exists but wont work in this Town, especially since some of the critical thinkers are dead, absent, or dont have any interest in helping the Town: assume Bh is Town. If he truly believes WoS is scum why is he spending so much time arguing with him and undermining him instead of panning to everyone else to get votes on the wagon? That is super duper fishy - the guy said on a scale of 1 to 10 Wos is a 10. Intent and behavior. Too bad people are busy reading other games for meta and not the one they are actually playing.

Bh makes a mistake trying call a Vivax bus on Wos potential. rayne and shikorami totally skip it and chide Wos. lol.

no idea what OO is doing but dont ever play around with self voting unless you know what you are doing. He clearly doesnt. another possible vigi target.

VE shows up with a new post asking to lynch VA hours before deadline. It isn't even convincing. Will anyone give him a scum nod for this? lets see.
update: not really. It would probably help if the Cop that investigated VA to be innocent shadowed his reads and pushed his suspects for questioning too. Oh well.

VA wrote:only person id be even remotely down to lynch on the current list is Hiro and I dont see that happening anytime soon. And before you ask why I have no reason since frankly I dont like any of these wagons, including my own. Seems like mafia has a lot of control over this game as of now.

If only he knew.

kush votes BH, Prom asks for convincing and kush cant be bothered. No wonder people thinks he is terrible. In a familiar theme in this writeup: VIGI SHOT. Every setup on teamliquid should include unlimited shot vigilantes or Russian vigilantes. I dont care how swingy the game gets eliminate the useless players asap.

Getting close to lynch and OO might be a goner. A few people believe he might be Town but aren't exactly resisting the wagon. Perfect atmosphere for scum to thrive. Even with a night start this Town is confused more than they should be. The worst thing anyone could do is mislynch OO and he flips town, then get caught on the wagon while calling him a Town read. Don't lynch your townreads unless you have no choice and at least tried HARD to stop the wagon.

Luckily OO avoids the noose by 1 vote. lol wow.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18609589 - this post by Hiro is gold. Vivax isnt scum but it isnt exactly easy to tell by him sheeping BH for nonsense reasons.

some surprising night actions. The Cop and Vigi are doing some very odd things.

BH wrote: basically what i'd expect. a lot of meaningles babbles (about chaoser) and some attempts to look more townie. absent the hideous no-lynch today, he looks a bit better, but none of the reasons have changed and really it's inexcusable not to lynch him now

It's a new day with 3 dead bodies (all Town) which means new info. Not even stopping to consider it and immediately throwing dirt on OO is a huge, huge mistake. Intent and behavior! Doubt anyone will catch him though so maybe it isn't a mistake.

lol Oats reads Prome's post and dismissses it because it doesn't have quotes. WoS is hysterical and lost and is spazzing out. Prom tells Oats to stop being lazy and find it himself. Can't convince people of shit if they dont want to read.

WoS made a meta read? Oats calls him dumb for it and scummy. This wont ever end.

VE shows up and votes OO. Great move imo lol. The reasoning is absolutely horrid but still, no one in this town reads posts.


s&b wrote:
oatsmaster's vote was stolen by some terrible townie who should be shot
oatsmaster is scum
OO is scum


I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1.

So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum.

Now if he gets away with this give him the Scum MVP award. There are so many loophopes in this thinking a townie would have to be super biased to fix their brain that one of these two must be scum, and the guy not getting hammered is the reason why. He assumes the vote stealer must be Scum which crumbles for reasons already explained.

OO finally using his head again and realizes the bs pie snb is selling, at the same time nabbing VE. Well now he has to convince people. Lets see how he does at this aspect.

It's working! People are reading Ve's posts (hiroPro to the rescue). kush has some hidden meta read on VE (thank god he keeps it hidden). This will be a funny ending.

VE is screwed. Shows up and in his defense does a 180 on OO and votes for HiroPro. Worst possible move ever. He says that he hadn't considered the point previously made that OO wasn't hammered because the scum were already on the wagon. Fair enough. In the same post he goes on to say that Hiro has new aversion to lynching OO which makes him scum. For a second we'll ignore that this isn't a scumtell by itself at all. If Ve takes the counter point that scum could already have been on OO's wagon as true - then why does he jump directly to hirpro and single him out? If he is truly taking that data in then shouldn't he be evaluating everyone on the wagon fairly? GG.

oats and OO cant keep focus. now hiro might be scum? loh lord

WHAT THE FUCK VE HAS SQUIRMED OUT OF ANOTHER LYNCH!? This is Pandain levels of survivability. My head seriously hurts right now.

6:30PM ET May 17th

Scum team is accusing each other and voting each other lol. Oats better pray tonight because not checking the people he argued with or people on the wagon is going to haunt him. That chaoser check was a waste. Townies still doing stupid meta arguments so obviously, the Scum team does it too. Great - no one is arguing based on fact and everyone has switched votes a good 3 times already. Sign of no one being able to keep focus (outside the SK and Scum because they dont need to).

Why does one of Oats/OO have to be scum? That is just plainly false. Why is no one shitting on this?

Too bad for HiroPro. Players talking sense always get lynched by the jubjubs.

Prom switches up and drops a vote on BH. lol BH rages. Hiropro o.o's. Obviousone probably has a gif ready. This game makes no sense. Pretty much a Caller game in disguise.

VisceraEyes posts OBEY in large bold font in the thread. WIFOM grenade incoming.

according to scum QT VE is setting a trap for Prom. This game is full of so much misdirection (including from the Townies). Still dont know why bussing BH here over a sure death of Hiro was the plan.

Ok Hiro ends up dying due to hurr durr collectiveness from the Town. I'm rooting for a Scum team win since they've outplayed the Town badly. They read the thread better than the Townies do.


kush finally reads some posts and comes to the conclusion that prp is only posting stuff based on past games. About time someone catches the obvious. This point is his post (all were solid) is damning:

4 his top scumread is hiro d1. Nothing he says ever indicates that that changes. Yet on d2 he makes this random ass out of the blue case on me to distance himself from the hiro mislynch. If you are town and your top scumread has a huge bandwagon, why wouldn't you help push that wagon instead of introducing some lynch that's never going to happen.


Serial Killer saves town by killing BH. No actions from Cop or Voyeur last night. Ouch. Vote stealer misses another night also. WoS should use his role on prp today if he has been reading.

Best meta case I've seen in ages - a specific tell unique to prp that kush points out. prp references past games like crazy to try and act like he's active (simple reading should result in him getting lynched for this too). Maybe kush is good when he actually tries.

It looks bad on the surface but the Scum team still has more control of the thread than it seems. Most of them have been implicated but voting wagons arent even moving. Still lots of time to avoid the lynch.

For example: Another Oats vs WoS confrontation

happy to say I was wrong about kush. Actual effort being shown right now.

damn sl0osh just took a shit on Prom and didn't even wipe his ass. what a filthy post. damn brutal setup analysis (except there could still be a medic protecting Prom but Town wont even really read his post critically). Major issue is sl0osh outs himself by calling Prom 3rd party the day after a missing NK with no regards to proving Prom isnt scum.

kush shows up and nails the sentiment. gg sl0osh? kush has no support anyway. The other two active townies are still in 'just ask questions' mode and not 'figure shit out mode'. If it's Day 3 and so much information has been revealed AND you know game is close to ending because you've barely caught scum - why are you still asking questions? Or at least, not the right questions. Who the hell cares what X thinks of Y's arguments, or who A thinks is Scum? Ask relevant shit. I don't know, maybe asking sl0osh how he came to the conclusion Prome must be the SK and how no one else can? Will someone comment on kush's post about BH mentioning sl0osh and snb 0 times? Just no critical thinking going on here. Bad players stay bad because in the face of given information they go looking for stuff that doesn't matter. If I gave you recipe to make pancakes and provided you with eggs, milk and butter would you really go to the store and buy some noodles? Use what is given to you.

snb wrote: you're right, 5-4 tomorrow is pretty bad. however, we still have a fighting chance. it's infinitely better than 4-3-1.

4-3-1 is far, far, far, better for Town. Jesus please let someone use their head and read the posts.

snb slips up in his post confirming Prome is an SK thereby confirming he is Mafia. Only way he'd know is if he shot Prome last night. ouch. Town is just braindead though so who cares. Even worse the Town has 2 power roles that neutralize both factions going forward. WoS has the best role since he can cause 2 Scum or Scum AND SK to die on the same day.

Scum make a brutal mistake and ask the cop to target sl0osh, their most powerful endgame role. With him and 5-4 voting power they only need to convince 1 townie to slip in order to win. If people thought of the day game as a number of votes they wouldn't make such a simple mistake.

WoS now thinking Oats is scum and snb possible town(wtf?). Imagine if Oats claims and Scum counter claim him lol the horror. Scum also knows the Cop exists so can claim first and win the game with 1 mislynch. Let's see what they do.

ObviousOne is a boss. SSecond game I've seen him play where he shows he shows he knows how to read. This point is crucial to his argument: "Drawing associations with flipped players that are rather convenient, no consideration for thinking one step ahead". This is what most people would recognize as not trying to figure stuff out. More than likely VE is Scum off this because he doesn't need to pretend to go 1 step further to figure stuff out - he already knows the answer.

Oats has no response to OO's case and simply says he doesn't think VE could be Scum. :/

No idea why Scum choose to shoot WoS as he is lost and could be easily convinced. Very big mistake.

sl0osh screwed up - serial killers should return the same as Town, especially in my games. Only way to waffle this would be if sl0osh considered Prom as being Scum - which he clearly never did. Bad claim. So he goes to the OO must have been framed to screw up my investigations route. Now that is another stretch since it retroactively explains his screw up on Prom - but now must explain how one of the most protown looking people is scum when 3 other people are pretty much confirmed scum by analysis (town hasn't done it but lets pretend) - one of which is making this very case. If DP is a miller, then he has no point in dropping his focus on OO the next day if OO returns SAME. The only people that can are Scum. OO is scum, and this happens before framer shenanigans are even considered. Major screw up. Add in the busdriver mention = gg. Throwing Oats in is even worse as he is Town and will survive the night. Assume that Oats was paying attention - he'd clearly side with OO on any wagon against you. kush is already against you. You need to secure at least 1 protown vote to win tomorrow :/. Killing WoS tonight may undo this even more and would technically be a nail in the coffin for the Scum team. Let's see if they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

OO calls bs on sl0osh's claim because he is watcher and didn't see sloosh visit. ouch.

VE has a plan to salvage the situation but it will fall on deaf ears. Then again this town doesn't read so he SHOULD try it. Without OO's claim, sl0osh's claim by itself is off. The actions he stated are impossible to occur with the explanations he has given. Might as well turn it into something else and get attention off the claim. They were so far ahead of the Town and that unncessary bussing stunt with BH, and outting of Prom dropped their advantage. The town is so bad that they still have a chance to win, but they better not kill the worst town players.

OO now rethinking Sl0osh'a claim? :/ By the way Oats has a redcheck on sl0osh and is actually debating whether he can be Scum with VE. just useless.

sl0osh is lynched, and Scum loses their best lategame asset due to carelessness. Now instead of getting any townie to L-1 and ending it they have to work a bit harder and now have lost all thread they are trying to find the cop but not using their Captain role to the fullest.

shirokami has been largely worthless this game and now its coming back to haunt the Town. Imagine how bad it is that the Scum team has provided just enough activity to appear a little less suspicious than him if he contributed any thoughts the past 3 days. /facepalm

Oats is going to check shirokami. He'll flip innocent, but I wonder if the Godfather possibility will come up? Interesting if it does and results in a mislynch and game over.

btw this is why I sometimes don't give scumreads during the night. Mafia can WIFOM the Town into a mistake and end the game. Very true when you have players who are still confused by what is going on.

VE makes a post claiming OO is scum. jesus christ. Oats should know for sure VE is scum now. grush shows up and asks VE if he just scum claimed. good god... :/
COME ON VE WTF ARE YOU DOING!

--- May23rd, 9PM

VE picked the right person to accuse in shirokami. He has done nothing to help the town in recent days. A few people are bringing up prp but VE has a point: why not shirokami? They are both essentially worthless and VE is doing a good job falsifying their degrees of uselessless. All prp has to do is show up and post anything relevant to put pressure on shirokami. Short of Oats actually using his head the Scum team would have this sealed. If they actually shoot Oats this game should be over.This is also the rest of the Town's fault too for not going back to the Promethelax lynch and realizing snb and prp outted themselves. Or re-reading sl0osh's lol posts. This should be an easy endgame for the Scum team.

lol OO says Oats didn't claim. Indeed how unbelievable is it a cop lives to LYLO and doesn't claim? well, he has no investigations to give you about the remaining players even though he is guaranteed sane. So he's right back to square 1 unless he re-reads the Prome lynch. Oats is in the QT trying to validate his failed WIFOM on VE. Not even taking into account a dead Cop calling VE town before lylo makes the town think VE is clared due to cop check. This is why you should be careful of WIFOM - sometimes the scum team doesn't even notice it and just shoots you

Just got home to see shiro lynched and scum team outting themselves for forgetting town has a vote stealer who isn't of much help anyway.(a recurring theme) OO getting trolled by snb who is trying to convince him that there is a Jersey Shore Janitor 3rd party. Not even phased. Going to end the game now because there is no way the Town can win. GG all.

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