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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town. errmm OK o.0 Will have to talk more about this post-game. Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
I have two games played together with Vivax (LX and Fruity) and I was interested in getting a preliminary read on him based on what we've seen so far. I did a (pretty weak) meta case on him in LX and I have a not-entirely-unfamiliar handle on his play, but I wanted to see if my read agreed with yours. Surprisingly he's been talking a lot of sense, but he's got Rayn as his #1 town read according to his filter: On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote: Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections? I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on. If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later. That's why scum will try to stop this plan. 1. Rayn 2. Gonzaw 3. Vivax (duh) 4.-5. : To find out. It seems the reason for this was because Rayn's opinion was that there was a low likelihood of there being scum in the most active/outspoken of townies for D1. This doesn't seem to jive with the concept that people are being active/outspoken about disagreeing that we should have had a plan to begin with. Each time I read the next quote I get more and more confused about what Vivax is actually saying here, to be honest. It seems as though Vivax is reading Rayn as town because Rayn is active/engaged, but Rayn is conversely suspicious of people who are active and engaged. Is this some kind of process of elimination or how did Vivax form his read? I'm not seeing it... On April 05 2013 02:50 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I would probably support you as candidate cause I don't think that there can be mostly mafia among the most active and engaged candidates you proposed, so that makes you look quite townie. ##Pick #1: Rayn  I guess I should extend this question to Vivax as well, then. Vivax, does your town read on Rayn waver at all based on what I've demonstrated before (that Rayn's scum reads are all people pushing against the current/trending of town's intentions during pre-picks). Moc, Yam, do you think Vivax' town read of Rayn is unfounded? Maybe you can explain it better than I understand it since I could be misinterpreting it. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Roles we want to attempt to deny: Inventor CPR Doc Janitor Thief Roleswapper Hooker Other roles that both teams probably want, so maybe some of these should be taken in the next few slots: Rock Star Jailkeeper Bulletproof Hero NRA Member Meth Man Vigilante Russia (Maybe...depends on if they have to use the Nuke publicly like America...if they don't then this goes here) Assassin Politician Vote Rigger Jack Role Reverser Prince of Darkness Moderator BloodyC0bbler Roles that are (almost) strictly town roles and good picks anywhere you can get them: NKVD Agent Detective Role Cop Parity Cop (**Note: Detective roles listed in order of strength. DT and NKVD are basically equal, though) Witch Doctor Medic Veteran (This is arguably a solid scum pick too, but I'm not sure they would actually pick it with stronger roles in the game. ..............Depends on how far down the order are, probably) Capitalist Priest Roleblocker Bone Breaker (Although this is arguably not super useful) Fake Steve Some roles that townies basically have 0 reason to pick except for trolling/funtimes: Martyr Bodyguard Floridian (This role isn't terrible, I just feel like its weak unless you are very late in the draft and just want to get a role) Cupid Showtime! Justice Vigilante (Unless you are just a 100% master scumhunter never wrong, don't pick this) There are some obvious roles that I didn't mention because I'm not sure where to put them. America!: This role is "strong" for both teams. But, I honestly just feel like we would be better off as a town to just refuse to pick it. Make mafia waste a pick on it, if they want it. And if they do, we can lynch them. If someone from town does pick this, you will 100% be held accountable for your shots. If you're going to use it, you better be DAMN sure. Day Vig: This is basically in the same boat as America!, except its a lot weaker. Oddly, that might make mafia more likely to pick it, because of WIFOM. Use/pick with extreme discretion. Kingmaker: This is the hardest one to pick. Obviously scum could use it quite effectively, while it would be extremely hard for town to use while having any accountability. Being forced to use it every day makes it hard to use for town. Who knows where it goes. Admiral Ackbar: Another weird role, because it is reasonably strong in scum hands, but it's not necessarily gamebreaking when the scum has no idea how many people it would kill. Maybe 0. Might be worth attempting to deny, but I'm not sure. Framer: I originally had it in my town Do Not Pick list, but I didn't realize it had the "redirects any night action by the player. So its basically a roleblocker, but hurts town if it happens to coincide with a check. Yea, I still think town doesn't have much/any reason to pick this. There are a few more that I didn't mention, but they are generally just mediocre and/or super hard to use. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
If someone from town does pick this, you will 100% be held accountable for your shots. If you're going to use it, you better be DAMN sure. I dont see how mafia cant abuse this liberty. They tunnel a guy, then nuke him. And we dont lynch him Policy regarding nukes, if you launch one, you are scum bro. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont see how mafia cant abuse this liberty. They tunnel a guy, then nuke him. And we dont lynch him Policy regarding nukes, if you launch one, you are scum bro. Maybe an addendum: If you launch one, and you hit town, then you get lynched no questions asked. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
Vivax' town read of him is not that odd. What is odd about Vivax is that he's not screaming at someone for being scum yet. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:26 Keirathi wrote: Maybe an addendum: If you launch one, and you hit town, then you get lynched no questions asked. haha. That works too. How I could see this abused is politician but honestly thats a horrible role. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:27 yamato77 wrote: Rayn is probably town. He's an idiot at times, but eh. I don't think he'd be so spammy and carefree as scum. Vivax' town read of him is not that odd. What is odd about Vivax is that he's not screaming at someone for being scum yet. SHEEP ME. Vivax is scum bro. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:26 Keirathi wrote: Maybe an addendum: If you launch one, and you hit town, then you get lynched no questions asked. Arguably, nuking at all should get the person lynched I guess. Scum with the role could nuke scum for the town cred (really stupid and wifom but it's in the realm of possibility) and to bypass all of that, we could just agree to policy lynch America when they are outed in the thread to be 100% sure. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:27 yamato77 wrote: Rayn is probably town. He's an idiot at times, but eh. I don't think he'd be so spammy and carefree as scum. Vivax' town read of him is not that odd. What is odd about Vivax is that he's not screaming at someone for being scum yet. The problem with this is that I think he was either drunk or high. Its easy to make bad decisions that you normally wouldn't make when you're fucked up. But he was basically just quoting a "Scumtells For Dummies" book at people while yelling scum. Who knows. Hopefully he calms down tomorrow. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:31 Keirathi wrote: The problem with this is that I think he was either drunk or high. Its easy to make bad decisions that you normally wouldn't make when you're fucked up. But he was basically just quoting a "Scumtells For Dummies" book at people while yelling scum. Who knows. Hopefully he calms down tomorrow. He kinda did this is Red team after his kill on Acro. Like went completely bonkers. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:29 ObviousOne wrote: Arguably, nuking at all should get the person lynched I guess. Scum with the role could nuke scum for the town cred (really stupid and wifom but it's in the realm of possibility) and to bypass all of that, we could just agree to policy lynch America when they are outed in the thread to be 100% sure. If someone is scum and starts nuking his buddies, then I'm fine with letting him live TBH. Think about it like this: If that person is trying to emulate town, then what is the normal mafia reaction? To NK said person. If they are still alive 2/3/whatever days later, then we can talk about it again. I think its dumb to say "We're going to policy lynch anyone who uses a nuke, even if they hit scum" because then if a townie  OES* pick America, and they O* hit scum, then scum don't have to use a kill to get rid of him because they know town is going to do it for them. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:19 ObviousOne wrote: Hey Mocsta! I'll direct this question to you and Yamato since he's all AMA right now. + Show Spoiler + I have two games played together with Vivax (LX and Fruity) and I was interested in getting a preliminary read on him based on what we've seen so far. I did a (pretty weak) meta case on him in LX and I have a not-entirely-unfamiliar handle on his play, but I wanted to see if my read agreed with yours. Surprisingly he's been talking a lot of sense, but he's got Rayn as his #1 town read according to his filter: On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote: Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections? I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on. If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later. That's why scum will try to stop this plan. 1. Rayn 2. Gonzaw 3. Vivax (duh) 4.-5. : To find out. It seems the reason for this was because Rayn's opinion was that there was a low likelihood of there being scum in the most active/outspoken of townies for D1. This doesn't seem to jive with the concept that people are being active/outspoken about disagreeing that we should have had a plan to begin with. Each time I read the next quote I get more and more confused about what Vivax is actually saying here, to be honest. It seems as though Vivax is reading Rayn as town because Rayn is active/engaged, but Rayn is conversely suspicious of people who are active and engaged. Is this some kind of process of elimination or how did Vivax form his read? I'm not seeing it... On April 05 2013 02:50 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I would probably support you as candidate cause I don't think that there can be mostly mafia among the most active and engaged candidates you proposed, so that makes you look quite townie. ##Pick #1: Rayn I guess I should extend this question to Vivax as well, then. Vivax, does your town read on Rayn waver at all based on what I've demonstrated before (that Rayn's scum reads are all people pushing against the current/trending of town's intentions during pre-picks). Moc, Yam, do you think Vivax' town read of Rayn is unfounded? Maybe you can explain it better than I understand it since I could be misinterpreting it. I will look into Vivax for you, but will have to read the filter first. As for rayn, unfortunately, you just blew my mind... The rayn quotes identify that he thinks non-planners are scummy. Hence, technically, his actions towards RO as weird as they were, could be substantiated as town through that mentality. e.g. On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I still want to hear from Rayn regarding my comments on our CPR exchange though. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:34 Keirathi wrote: If someone is scum and starts nuking his buddies, then I'm fine with letting him live TBH. Think about it like this: If that person is trying to emulate town, then what is the normal mafia reaction? To NK said person. If they are still alive 2/3/whatever days later, then we can talk about it again. I think its dumb to say "We're going to policy lynch anyone who uses a nuke, even if they hit scum" because then if a townie OES* pick America, and they O* hit scum, then scum don't have to use a kill to get rid of him because they know town is going to do it for them.SHHH MAKE THEM FEAR THE RETRIBUTION, KEI! | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? I plan on finding 2-3 townies that I trust and look to sheep them for the first couple of days. I'm trying out a certain strategy a veteran suggested. You'll see my full plan once the day post actually rolls out. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:34 Oatsmaster wrote: 1 for 1 trades are never good. On April 05 2013 14:51 Oatsmaster wrote: No. We dont shoot. On April 05 2013 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Policy regarding nukes, if you launch one, you are scum bro. Oats, I just find stuff like this really disruptive Oats. Like fair enough, the points you raise have validity; but the iron fist manner in which you are dropping those points; in my opinion acts to cease discussion. Your essentially coming across as: my way, or the highway. As I said before, some of your points this game have been very valid; I just think you need to work more on trying to develop others ideas to a common ground, rather than just.. shit on it. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote: @VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. Quiet VE is scum VE. so Vivax/VE is scum. LETS KEEP GOING. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote: @VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... | ||
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