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On February 16 2013 14:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:10 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:00 warbaby wrote: Sevryn, I've been working on the assumption that there are 3 scum. Let's assume you're right that sylencia and Mandalor are scum. Who do you think the 3rd scum could be?
Do you think any of the active players have been attacking you harder than sylencia and Mandlor, because they know you're the one remaining town lurker?
Does anyone think we can extend this hypothetical to scenarios where sevryn and sylencia are scum? Or sevryn and mandalor?
My point is that if two lurkers are scum, then one active player is scum, and perhaps we can spot a difference between the way active players have been treating the different lurkers. Nobody thats still alive. So there's 2 scum? ahh no that was too the second question. if we assume that there are three scum I would probably say you cora are at the top of my list which would go 1. cora 2. warbaby 3.mocsta/sno 4.zera 5.TS who is confirmed town? that actually makes me wonder is there a scenario where TS isnt confirmed townie?
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On February 16 2013 14:15 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 10:59 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 16 2013 10:31 TestSubject893 wrote:What's your opinion on this, Corazon? On February 16 2013 10:29 warbaby wrote:For reference, here's geript's case on Mocsta. Would this be enough to elicit a defensive kill? Geript has a point. While geript's early vote on me was odd, but why did Mocsta immediately jump on board? His other points about Mocsta are basically part of what I was talking about last night. Mocsta was being really pushy and manipulative D1, which I extend to a meta case based on his scum play in XXXV. Anyway, I'm not going to go on another Mocsta witch hunt, it would be tunneling. I just want to bring highlight this now that we have info from the OO flip. I don't think it's enough to elicit a defensive kill for certain, it certainly was an attack on Mocsta. I think it's too hard to tell for sure without going into a whole lot of WIFOM. However, I think that Warbaby's own criticism in Mocsta's play "being manipulative and pushy D1" can't be place as part of his scum meta. He acted exactly the same in XXXIV as town. He got massive amounts of confirmation bias and really put the town in an atmosphere where it was his way or the highway, which led to several mislynches and let a lurker scum (Sylencia) slip by and win the game without really taking any pressure. I think Mocsta's game has been half old Mocsta, half new Mocsta. At times he has been very patient with people and let others play the game as well, but at other times he has tried to be the mayor. While I do not enjoy an inconsistent game out of anyone, I'm not too fond of Mocsta's aggressive side (I locked horns with him about 85% of D1 in XXXIV). I'm happy with the patient Mocsta I have seen, and I'm really just trying to stay out of his way and play my own game. However, he is trying to intertwine himself with me a lot. It's suspicious, but it's obviously not enough to say he is scum. So if this isn't a good explanation for the geript kill, what is? I'm feeling some confirmation bias from you here. You think Mocsta is town, so you are quick to write off evidence that might suggest the opposite.
Why do you think I proposed the question to everyone if I knew the answer? I really don't. His biggest read was me. If I had killed him because he was on the right track, why would I be bringing attention to it?
You need to step up your play. Being confirmed town doesn't mean you can sit here and tunnel. Whereas I put out a question to facilitate some discussion, you are just trying to point everything back to me.
I never said I thought Mocsta was town, I said that I could not find any huge differences between his town and his scum play, and that I was trying to avoid him. You are trying to put us together, when in fact besides our votes for Glurio, most of my actions have been either from my behalf of the behalf of someone other than Mocsta.
I propose a question to you: Who is trying harder to associate themselves with the other, me or Mocsta?
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@Sevryn: Can you bring anything new to the table in the argument against me? If so, I'd love to hear it.
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On February 16 2013 13:59 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:54 Sylencia wrote: Sorry guys, wasn't around last night.
Corazon: I'm still sure that Warbaby is scum, potential slip during day 2, one of the weirdest statements I've read during day 1, and he's now also claimed I've fake roleblock claimed. Remember when you were scum and you managed to slip under the radar for another 3 days while we flailed around until the other scum kind of screwed up your plans? This is something I don't want to let happen again.
Sevryn: It's not like I'm even talking about my level of scumhunting wihtout backup - you can check my filters for the other 3 games I've been in. How many cases have I truly brought up? Not too many. You guys all mention how I talk about the potential blue claim for quite a while on Day 1 - I didn't even say it's likely he's blue unless it's a Vig.
talking about it at all isnt really something thats good for down it can only help scum on Day 1
How is reasoning someone is potentially scum good for scum?
On February 16 2013 14:16 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 16 2013 14:10 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:00 warbaby wrote: Sevryn, I've been working on the assumption that there are 3 scum. Let's assume you're right that sylencia and Mandalor are scum. Who do you think the 3rd scum could be?
Do you think any of the active players have been attacking you harder than sylencia and Mandlor, because they know you're the one remaining town lurker?
Does anyone think we can extend this hypothetical to scenarios where sevryn and sylencia are scum? Or sevryn and mandalor?
My point is that if two lurkers are scum, then one active player is scum, and perhaps we can spot a difference between the way active players have been treating the different lurkers. Nobody thats still alive. So there's 2 scum? ahh no that was too the second question. if we assume that there are three scum I would probably say you cora are at the top of my list which would go 1. cora 2. warbaby 3.mocsta/sno 4.zera 5.TS who is confirmed town? that actually makes me wonder is there a scenario where TS isnt confirmed townie?
If OO was scum, possibly could make a case where TS isn't confirmed, but it'd be the greatest shot in the dark if TS guessed OO did something, seeing as how he was SK and so scum have no info as to who that is.
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On February 16 2013 15:03 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:59 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 13:54 Sylencia wrote: Sorry guys, wasn't around last night.
Corazon: I'm still sure that Warbaby is scum, potential slip during day 2, one of the weirdest statements I've read during day 1, and he's now also claimed I've fake roleblock claimed. Remember when you were scum and you managed to slip under the radar for another 3 days while we flailed around until the other scum kind of screwed up your plans? This is something I don't want to let happen again.
Sevryn: It's not like I'm even talking about my level of scumhunting wihtout backup - you can check my filters for the other 3 games I've been in. How many cases have I truly brought up? Not too many. You guys all mention how I talk about the potential blue claim for quite a while on Day 1 - I didn't even say it's likely he's blue unless it's a Vig.
talking about it at all isnt really something thats good for down it can only help scum on Day 1 How is reasoning someone is potentially scum good for scum? Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:16 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 16 2013 14:10 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:00 warbaby wrote: Sevryn, I've been working on the assumption that there are 3 scum. Let's assume you're right that sylencia and Mandalor are scum. Who do you think the 3rd scum could be?
Do you think any of the active players have been attacking you harder than sylencia and Mandlor, because they know you're the one remaining town lurker?
Does anyone think we can extend this hypothetical to scenarios where sevryn and sylencia are scum? Or sevryn and mandalor?
My point is that if two lurkers are scum, then one active player is scum, and perhaps we can spot a difference between the way active players have been treating the different lurkers. Nobody thats still alive. So there's 2 scum? ahh no that was too the second question. if we assume that there are three scum I would probably say you cora are at the top of my list which would go 1. cora 2. warbaby 3.mocsta/sno 4.zera 5.TS who is confirmed town? that actually makes me wonder is there a scenario where TS isnt confirmed townie? If OO was scum, possibly could make a case where TS isn't confirmed, but it'd be the greatest shot in the dark if TS guessed OO did something, seeing as how he was SK and so scum have no info as to who that is. talking about blues is good for scum not who is scum
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On February 16 2013 15:05 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 15:03 Sylencia wrote:On February 16 2013 13:59 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 13:54 Sylencia wrote: Sorry guys, wasn't around last night.
Corazon: I'm still sure that Warbaby is scum, potential slip during day 2, one of the weirdest statements I've read during day 1, and he's now also claimed I've fake roleblock claimed. Remember when you were scum and you managed to slip under the radar for another 3 days while we flailed around until the other scum kind of screwed up your plans? This is something I don't want to let happen again.
Sevryn: It's not like I'm even talking about my level of scumhunting wihtout backup - you can check my filters for the other 3 games I've been in. How many cases have I truly brought up? Not too many. You guys all mention how I talk about the potential blue claim for quite a while on Day 1 - I didn't even say it's likely he's blue unless it's a Vig.
talking about it at all isnt really something thats good for down it can only help scum on Day 1 How is reasoning someone is potentially scum good for scum? On February 16 2013 14:16 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 16 2013 14:10 Sevryn wrote:On February 16 2013 14:00 warbaby wrote: Sevryn, I've been working on the assumption that there are 3 scum. Let's assume you're right that sylencia and Mandalor are scum. Who do you think the 3rd scum could be?
Do you think any of the active players have been attacking you harder than sylencia and Mandlor, because they know you're the one remaining town lurker?
Does anyone think we can extend this hypothetical to scenarios where sevryn and sylencia are scum? Or sevryn and mandalor?
My point is that if two lurkers are scum, then one active player is scum, and perhaps we can spot a difference between the way active players have been treating the different lurkers. Nobody thats still alive. So there's 2 scum? ahh no that was too the second question. if we assume that there are three scum I would probably say you cora are at the top of my list which would go 1. cora 2. warbaby 3.mocsta/sno 4.zera 5.TS who is confirmed town? that actually makes me wonder is there a scenario where TS isnt confirmed townie? If OO was scum, possibly could make a case where TS isn't confirmed, but it'd be the greatest shot in the dark if TS guessed OO did something, seeing as how he was SK and so scum have no info as to who that is. talking about blues is good for scum not who is scum
I'm pretty sure making one post comparing the list of blues to justify WB's weird actions is not a detriment to town. He made it in one post and then moved on. If he had dwelled on the fact, sure. The way Syl handled the blue list was alright in my eyes.
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This game is hard.
My 2 cents. I'll be filter diving tomorrow, too lazy today. Actually tomorrow is weekend so I may be too lazy then as well. Sometime before next lynch is the goal
So much crap being tossed around in this thread, at this point I think that EVERYBODY should seriously consider just taking the time to read a filter or 2 seriously. If 2 people call each other scummy, well that doesn't make progress (he said/she said doesn't get us anywhere).
The night actions tonight will hopefully be revealing.
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I think everyone should come into D3 (ideally the very end of N2) with a full list of their reads, and who they suspect the most after doing some filter work.
I'll be spending what time I have today doing another filter dive and come out by the end of the night with my reads.
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On February 16 2013 15:02 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:15 TestSubject893 wrote:On February 16 2013 10:59 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 16 2013 10:31 TestSubject893 wrote:What's your opinion on this, Corazon? On February 16 2013 10:29 warbaby wrote:For reference, here's geript's case on Mocsta. Would this be enough to elicit a defensive kill? Geript has a point. While geript's early vote on me was odd, but why did Mocsta immediately jump on board? His other points about Mocsta are basically part of what I was talking about last night. Mocsta was being really pushy and manipulative D1, which I extend to a meta case based on his scum play in XXXV. Anyway, I'm not going to go on another Mocsta witch hunt, it would be tunneling. I just want to bring highlight this now that we have info from the OO flip. I don't think it's enough to elicit a defensive kill for certain, it certainly was an attack on Mocsta. I think it's too hard to tell for sure without going into a whole lot of WIFOM. However, I think that Warbaby's own criticism in Mocsta's play "being manipulative and pushy D1" can't be place as part of his scum meta. He acted exactly the same in XXXIV as town. He got massive amounts of confirmation bias and really put the town in an atmosphere where it was his way or the highway, which led to several mislynches and let a lurker scum (Sylencia) slip by and win the game without really taking any pressure. I think Mocsta's game has been half old Mocsta, half new Mocsta. At times he has been very patient with people and let others play the game as well, but at other times he has tried to be the mayor. While I do not enjoy an inconsistent game out of anyone, I'm not too fond of Mocsta's aggressive side (I locked horns with him about 85% of D1 in XXXIV). I'm happy with the patient Mocsta I have seen, and I'm really just trying to stay out of his way and play my own game. However, he is trying to intertwine himself with me a lot. It's suspicious, but it's obviously not enough to say he is scum. So if this isn't a good explanation for the geript kill, what is? I'm feeling some confirmation bias from you here. You think Mocsta is town, so you are quick to write off evidence that might suggest the opposite. Why do you think I proposed the question to everyone if I knew the answer? I really don't. His biggest read was me. If I had killed him because he was on the right track, why would I be bringing attention to it? I don't expect you to have an answer, but I expect you to be willing to accept one proposed by others. As for the latter question here, I can WIFOM right back at you and say, you'd do it just so you could use it now as town cred. As you can see, the fact that you brought it up is an entirely null point, as it could be an honest play or a leveling move and there's no way to know.
You need to step up your play. Being confirmed town doesn't mean you can sit here and tunnel. Whereas I put out a question to facilitate some discussion, you are just trying to point everything back to me.
I don't know what you mean by step up my play. Are you accusing me of not trying? The majority of my experience playing mafia is in real life where using cues in context and wording of what people say has treated me very well. Its not the same way most people play online, sure, but I its the way I think I can help town most. Do you think I'm just mailing it in because I'm confirmed town or what? This isn't the first time you've brought this up.
I never said I thought Mocsta was town, I said that I could not find any huge differences between his town and his scum play, and that I was trying to avoid him. You are trying to put us together, when in fact besides our votes for Glurio, most of my actions have been either from my behalf of the behalf of someone other than Mocsta.
The reason I posted that actually was to point out how silly it is to call confirmation bias on people's arguments so often. It seriously applies to half the things people say. You throwing it around willy-nilly is in my eyes detrimental to the town.
I propose a question to you: Who is trying harder to associate themselves with the other, me or Mocsta?
I don't have an answer to this question and frankly I don't care given the information or lack there of that we have right now. I don't think there's anything to be gained from a discussion of it right now either.
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Sn0 and zare very much right. WB, Moc, Cora and myself have shared enough opinions of each other for now. Let's hear some new angles please.
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I agree with testsubject and zarepath. I don't have a lot to contribute right now. Mandalor is lurking hardest at this point, hopefully he'll pop in soon.
Anyway, I'll do my best to review the thread and post reads before N2 is out.
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On February 17 2013 06:45 warbaby wrote: I agree with testsubject and zarepath. I don't have a lot to contribute right now. Mandalor is lurking hardest at this point, hopefully he'll pop in soon.
Anyway, I'll do my best to review the thread and post reads before N2 is out.
I would also like to say that Sevryn said I was the top third scum, but just started lurking again when I asked him to provide some new information against me.
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*IF you were town* I am not sure why you have the confidence to make these types of posts; before the final hour deadline to be honest.
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On February 17 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote: *IF you were town* I am not sure why you have the confidence to make these types of posts; before the final hour deadline to be honest.
I am perfectly happy working with hypotheticals that involve my own alignment. I don't think this is scummy in the least. I did the same thing as town in 36.
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On February 11 2013 14:46 cDgCorazon wrote: 2. Continuing to play the victim from the mislynch in NMM 36.
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On February 17 2013 08:39 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 14:46 cDgCorazon wrote: 2. Continuing to play the victim from the mislynch in NMM 36.
I'm not playing the victim, I'm pointing to the fact that I'm always happy to work with hypothetical scenarios that involve my own alignment, and consistently so.
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That's it for night actions. 1 hour til daypost
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