EPTOn December 11 2012 10:03 Clarity_nl wrote:
Stupid.
Stupid.
Well then, I guess a lynch will reveal which
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Well then, I guess a lynch will reveal which | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
Now, I'm going to sit down and watch Palmars video and give my thoughts. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On December 11 2012 09:41 debears wrote: Please stop telling me who I should have a town read on. You don't like it? Vote me Because I won't stop telling you who you should have a scum or townread on, that's kind of my job as town. First I convince myself and then I convince others. Anyway I'm off to bed, please look at jay's filter, my case on jay and his reaction to it. Notice how he tried to slip away from all the thrawn stuff by explaining why he voted for him, but not explaining why his reasoning changed. Please notice he has yet to pressure anyone and he has yet to put an original thought together. All he's done lately is tell others to be productive On December 11 2012 09:17 jaybrundage wrote: im curious at what point did you check your role. I wish you would push more content out palmar the day is more then half over and you have mostly posted about your stream. On December 11 2012 07:49 jaybrundage wrote: Tunkeg your here no reason to lurk. Its bad for town. @Z-Boston Your case on Djodref is pretty good. He has a lack of scum hunting going back and forth with out any good reasons. I would also like to see from our MunkE and adam hasnt been here for a while. Also I would like to see WBG and VE's thoughts on Djodref and Z-Bostons case GUYS WHY DON'T YOU DO THE STUFF I'M NOT DOING?! Do the right thing, vote jaybrundage! Cya'll tomorrow. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:06 Adam4167 wrote: Dabears, you seem to be misunderstanding what I mean by "If I wanted to call you scummy, I would have". This is not me giving an indication as to my read on his alignment one way or another, this was me saying "I will call you scum when I am more confident that it is the case". I found his initial opening to be strange as its not something I can imagine myself doing, so I wanted him to explain his motives behind it. He did, eventually and I can relate to hating the initial policy discussion. I find Thrawn most likely a town with a risky opening. I did what I did early game to try and get a reaction out of him, it wasn't entirely productive, but I have a tentative read on thrawn from it. Now, I'm going to sit down and watch Palmars video and give my thoughts. Are you sure I am just misunderstanding what you are saying? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:14 debears wrote: Are you sure I am just misunderstanding what you are saying? Well, no. I thought that was implied with 'seem to be'. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
He doesn't accuse me of twisting his words. He doesn't accuse me of being scum pushing a mislynch. He just says "misunderstanding", as if he thinks I'm townie. He explains his whole reasoning for his thrawn thing to someone that he thinks is scum. That's weird, cuz he has a vote on me. On December 10 2012 12:51 Adam4167 wrote: Right now, leaning scum. I would like to know why he thinks I should of been voting for Thrawn from my exchange with him. On December 10 2012 13:07 Adam4167 wrote: In fact, why are you not voting me dabears? You say you don't like me (I assume this means you think i'm scum?), you find my lack of vote strange and that my reactions feel forced. Why make a case like this if you aren't going to follow it with a vote? ##Vote: dabears On December 11 2012 10:06 Adam4167 wrote: Dabears, you seem to be misunderstanding what I mean by "If I wanted to call you scummy, I would have". This is not me giving an indication as to my read on his alignment one way or another, this was me saying "I will call you scum when I am more confident that it is the case". I found his initial opening to be strange as its not something I can imagine myself doing, so I wanted him to explain his motives behind it. He did, eventually and I can relate to hating the initial policy discussion. I find Thrawn most likely a town with a risky opening. I did what I did early game to try and get a reaction out of him, it wasn't entirely productive, but I have a tentative read on thrawn from it. Now, I'm going to sit down and watch Palmars video and give my thoughts. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Day 1 Vote Count thrawn2112 (2): marvellosity (0): wherebugsgo (1): thrawn2112 debears (1): Adam4167 jaybrundage (4): Clarity_nl, Djodref, Bluelightz, Vivax Adam4167 (1): debears Vivax (2): VisceraEyes, jaybrundage Tunkeg (1) marvellosity No one currently set to be lynched. Deadline in 23.5 hours at 01:00 GMT (+00:00). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:25 debears wrote: Guys, I'm pretty sure Adam just claimed scum. Look at the difference in tone from the first two posts and the last one. He thinks I'm scum. Then, in the third, he claims I am "misunderstanding" his posting. He doesn't accuse me of twisting his words. He doesn't accuse me of being scum pushing a mislynch. He just says "misunderstanding", as if he thinks I'm townie. He explains his whole reasoning for his thrawn thing to someone that he thinks is scum. That's weird, cuz he has a vote on me. God, this just keeps getting stupider and stupider. Now you are twisting my words to fit your theory. I specifically replied, "no, i'm not sure that you are misunderstanding". | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Why didn't you say "seem to be twisting my words" or "I was twisting your words" when you have a vote on me and think I'm scum???? hmmm? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion. And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote: All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Couple of things: I don't agree that vivax's thought on scum fakeclaiming miller is more likely to be a town mistake, it's not that important though so i'll only post more about it if it's really necessary I still don't particularly want to lynch jay right now, he could be scum but he could also be flailing town I need to rethink Adam/debears, Palmar talked about it a bunch, and I came away from it thinking I had the wrong end of the stick. Now to read le thread. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Things I agree with: Adam Is Scummy While he hasn't been doing much scumhunting, at least he can't be bothered to defend himself against accusations that crop up about him. Also the disconnect between the suspicion of debears/trying to convince debears that he's not scum definitely looks like floundering scum who can't keep his story straight. Clarity = ObvTown I don't necessarily agree with Clarity's case on Jay, and I was surprised to hear it called "good" by both Bugs and Palmar, but it's a case and it took effort I'm not sure scum would be putting into "trying to look active". "Trying to look active" are what Vivax and Adam were doing earlier. Clarity is obviously active and reading and drawing conclusions. I'm going to go REread the case on Jay before I comment further on him, but Clarity is probably town. Things I disagree with: Marv Looks Town Marv looks like marv. AND WHILE THAT LOOKS DAMN GOOD, it doesn't look like town. At least, not to me....not yet. I'm strongly and vehemently NULL on Marv. Vivax Doesn't Look Scummy Screw you buddy, yes he does. I'll show you. VE Being Wrong Is Towntell I'm wrong in AT LEAST equal measure when I'm scum, you sneaky bastard. Don't wanna lynch Palmar today. At least, not unless he wants to lynch me. Then he sucks and can eat rope. That goes for all you guys, actually. So yeah...gonna reread the case on Jay, see what I see in Vivax' filter, maybe do a little reading up on some others and check back in in a bit. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:48 debears wrote: Marvy baby. Thoughts on my recent posts on adam? I like it. I have very little else to add other than I agree that it makes no sense that he was talking to you that way when you were his scumread. I'd understand it more if this was the start of the interactions, but it's been going on a while. Tunkeg has done jack shit to make me think he's town which I love to lynch for on Day 1, but Adam has betrayed a scum mentality right there. ##Unvote ##Vote: Adamsomenumbers | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
also debears, Clarity is right. Your townread on Palmar is/was hilariously ludicrous. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 11 2012 11:30 debears wrote: I know marv. All in good fun :D well... alright. if you weren't serious then don't do it, because it wastes a whole bunch of thread where clarity rightly calls you a tool. If you were serious, then you are a tool. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 11 2012 11:16 marvellosity wrote: also VE: "strongly and vehemently null". A contradiction in terms, dear? ^^ also debears, Clarity is right. Your townread on Palmar is/was hilariously ludicrous. Not where you're concerned. It's an agitation thing. Like..."MARV!!!!! GAAHHHHHH!!!!! WHY CAN'T I READ/TRUST/STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU?!?!?" Now go away, I'm doin something. Something important. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I had the same initial reaction to adam's post that debears did. Here is the line that I think is the start of the conflict: On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote: I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). Yes, that line does imply that adam is having doubts about thrawn's alignment. And no, adam does not commit to a read on thrawn. There is no reason to compare thrawn's play this game with his play from a town game unless you are trying to show similarities/differences and therefore some sort of meta based read. However I'm fine with adam not voting for thrawn. I'm even fine with him not wanting to call him scum at that point. It happened at a very early point in the game... I don't expect anyone to be that sure of a read at that point. Do I think debears is scummy for that interaction? No, he's simply did what adam was doing, which was questioning people over weak shit that happened during the early game. Adam/debears "scumslip" I'm referring to this post. So what's going on is adam says he thinks debears is scum, and later says he thinks debears is misunderstanding posts. The logic is that if adam thinks debears is scum, he wouldn't think debears's problem would be that he's misunderstanding posts. Yet again I think debears is probably being overzealous because of two reasons... confidence and compartmentalization. If adam is town is he 100% sure about debears being scum? I'm assuming not, and when there is any doubt you always should compartmentalize your reads so that you don't make assumptions based off of unflipped players. (yes I know it's specific to the situation, but in general and especially on D1) On top of all of that, debears can be both scum and misunderstanding adam's posts. I see just about as many possibilities where it's a scumslip as where it isn't a scumslip, so I do not think it's a scumslip. On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote: @ Z-Boson First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion. And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. Something that's been irritating me is the discussion about debear's vote for me. The actual vote itself and the manner in which he did it.... I'm leaning mostly null on but maybe just a little bit town. Djo... do you / did you realize that the matrix video was a direct representation about how debears felt about his vote? It was a joke video response to a question about a joke vote because of a joke claim. In fact, debears' reaction to thrawn's posts was what I was expecting from most people regardless of their alignment. You are questioning him for not engaging in the discussion, when it was (to me) obvious that he didn't find the discussion worth his time. I'm not seeing what's scummy about the first interactions between debears and thrawn. Palmer's video -his town group of debears/clarity/marv This might be what I agree with the most from the video, even down to the order of most town to most scum (clarity, debears, marv) Debears has been derping recently but not in a way that I think makes him scum. I've been getting a gut town read on marv because of how he jumped on me for being a jackass. I thought he was telling the truth about his opinion of my play. His overall involvement hasn't been quite up to my expectations but it's nothing extreme so I'm not worried about marv yet. On December 11 2012 11:30 debears wrote: I know marv. All in good fun :D When did you realize you were wrong? tldr -clarity/debears/marv are probably the people I'm least likely to lynch -the adam/debears conflict is interesting but I'm not convinced of either of debears' cases against adam and I don't want to lynch adam -+ Show Spoiler [p.s.] + palmer should make another video of him reading through posts for the first time because if he's scum it will be extremely obvious that he's faking it. in fact everyone in the game probably should. posting videos of yourself should probably be against the rules anyway but idc because I think everyone is too lazy to spend time watching/making hours and hours of content. I no longer want to lynch wbg. There's been more stuff to analyze since then and as the game has gone on I've been thinking that the chances of lynching scum outside of wbg are better than the chances that wbg is scum. Maybe I just really pissed him off or something and that's why he was voting so anti-town. this post has grown too large so I'll leave my lynch choices for the next one | ||
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