EPTThe wagon on Sandro is stupid, think by yourself and go check the Looney game !
If you really want to lynch a lurker today, there are better targets for sure !
Check TheChronicler filter and see by yourself if his story makes sense !
I'll be back !
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 103
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'll be back ! | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote: On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote: Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now... Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo Wat? But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
I'm fairly certain that sandroba is mafia. He hasn't done anything useful whole game long and he definitely could have. Everything that I've said about him before is still applicable. Even if he has been busy, it was by choice. No one forced him to run for election and he could have at any time dropped out and supported me. If he was town, I think he would have as soon as he figured out that I'm town. Moreover, his attitude when he came back is still wrong. Instead of attempting to convince me or even address me, he just addresses everyone generally. He claims that I have been paranoid about his alignment in merc mini and that 80+ player game, but that is false or an exaggeration. In the huge game I was, in fact, pushing him for mayor on day 1 (we were both town). In merc mini I was only slightly suspicious because his ability completely broke the game, but I never wanted to lynch him at any point; the only suspicions were voiced over PM. If he was town, he would be attempting to convince me, not play down my ability to read him accurately. To those who believe sandroba is town, what do you think mafia did on day 1? Who is mafia? Did they really have no one who could have ran and won? Do you think it's kita or acro were the mafia candidates then? | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Mistake No. 1 [spoiler] On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote: The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that... I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. These all happened early and seem to come from a scumbag's perspective. While one post wouldn't necessarily indicate mafia, I became suspicious when they began to stack up quickly Mistake No. 2 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Nice to play with you again Toadesstern  . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel as if blah blah blah... Here he completely glosses over Toad's accusation of Keirathi, indirectly saying to me that he supported the idea of a scum Keirathi. Well, it turned out Keirathi was in the group when we succeeded, so...? Mistake No. 3: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. So he picked Oats for the obvious towny to gain people's trust, Djo who has always been suspicious to me, and Sandro who has recently come under heavy fire as a scumbag. Not very solid picks IMO. Also, why attack me at the end of it? He doesn't directly call me scum, but it seems as if he is trying to plant some seeds of doubt at least. He ends up switching his party no much later to Djo/Phagga/Dien. Why so flip floppy, I ask? He later revealed that I made the cut solely because of my roleclaim. Mistake No. 4 + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 01:19 goodkarma wrote: I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa He seems overly relieved to finally have someone call him town. Even threw in a cute little heart there too. My gut says he started off very scummy, then toned it down a bit after he decided to drop his campaign and try to blend in. He is definitely top 3 on my Mafiadar. My next target: Sandroba[/quote] | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:40 syllogism wrote: I was going to wait until tomorrow so I could see who people are pushing today without me, to an extent, locking down discussion. I don't think it's particularly working though and kita can't wait (whether he is town remains to be seen, but I don't think it's worth the gamble). I'm fairly certain that sandroba is mafia. He hasn't done anything useful whole game long and he definitely could have. Everything that I've said about him before is still applicable. Even if he has been busy, it was by choice. No one forced him to run for election and he could have at any time dropped out and supported me. If he was town, I think he would have as soon as he figured out that I'm town. Moreover, his attitude when he came back is still wrong. Instead of attempting to convince me or even address me, he just addresses everyone generally. He claims that I have been paranoid about his alignment in merc mini and that 80+ player game, but that is false or an exaggeration. In the huge game I was, in fact, pushing him for mayor on day 1 (we were both town). In merc mini I was only slightly suspicious because his ability completely broke the game, but I never wanted to lynch him at any point; the only suspicions were voiced over PM. If he was town, he would be attempting to convince me, not play down my ability to read him accurately. To those who believe sandroba is town, what do you think mafia did on day 1? Who is mafia? Did they really have no one who could have ran and won? Do you think it's kita or acro were the mafia candidates then? kita could be mafia, so yeah. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I think his lack of caring speaks volumes, and only further adds to my case against him. As for TheChronicler.... His plan was dumb and he's contradicted himself a lot. As everyone else I got a newbie town vibe but now he's claimed he's played quite a bit of mafia, although I am quite confused, this does not seem like scum motivation to me at all. If he's a vet pretending to be newbie town, why would he admit to having played a bunch before? Especially since a lot of people already stated they read him as newbie town. Why would scum want to break this illusion, just for pride? Contradicting yourself does not make you scum. As for GK I had a gut feeling about him day 1, but now that everyone's jumping on him I don't really see it. His answer to me asking about hapa's townread on him seems genuine. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Marvel do you think sandro is mafia? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
TheChronicler The points against him are really strong (particularly the "giving town reads is anti-town" opinion, when his day 1 plan relied exactly on that). Waiting on him to explain more, but I'm liking him for the vote today right now. sandroba Nothing in his filter jumps out to me as anti-town mindset. Really, the only point against him is that he's been lurky, when I observed Looney and he was pretty lurky there too as town. Not enough for me to vote him right now. Promethelax He's someone else I think we should be talking about today as a lynch candidate. Let's take a look at his first two posts: On November 21 2012 10:54 Promethelax wrote: *snip* So, it seems to me that we need to vote for the towniest player possible for the challenge. I think anyone who wants to be elected as party leader should announce who they will pick to work with them so that they have something which they have to stand by. I don't want mafia to be able to choose an all mafia team (or 3rd party or whatever the hell else GreY put in this game). or, if they do I'd like them to have to at least put their stances in the thread on which players seem most townie and most scummy. On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it. Based on the fact that Acro had the same though as me and from our last game together I would currently, put him in my team, along with Acro I would add Marv (come on, wouldn't you?) and as third player I would chose Hapa. Hapa is a guy who over many games I have come to like and respect though I once hated him. He is a great town player and a kinda crappy scum player, seems like the right guy to have along for the ride. TL:DR My team: Acro, Marv, Hapa I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives. So, he's already thinking about voting the towniest person into the group as a leader, because he didn't want an all scum party. He even goes so far as to suggest putting a "liability" into the group to test if they are townie or not. But, he doesn't pick people for his group because they are TOWN. He just picks them because he respects them as good players. They are two very different lines of thinking within just those two posts. Then: On November 21 2012 12:08 Promethelax wrote: Kier: would you really vote for Marv? Do you think you have the ability to meta read him well enough to know that he is town? I don't think I could and, unless someone can convince me that he is town or the person he is running against is super scummy I will NOT vote Marv. And: On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers. But, marv was one of his proposed team, and, he was proposing to put a 'liability' player into the group to test if they were scum. However, those earlier thoughts don't line up with his thinking that a single scum could cause the event to fail. Now, I'll grant him a little benefit of the doubt here. His first two posts were still during the period of the game when people were guessing that the events were more of a "challenge" rather than a "plug townies in and you win" thing, so the change of opinions could make some sense. But he was still worried about having a part without scum in it earlier, but his picks didn't show that at all. And now, what really got me thinking about Prom more: On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote: You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks. After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads. ## Vote: Acro Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination. I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon. On November 22 2012 15:13 Promethelax wrote: I'm catching up, but writing as I read. I have never played with either of you before, I have trouble reading you and while it is true that you gained much support on a good idea. One which you got from reading the OP more acuretly than anyone else (we all thought that we needed strong players on the team, you realized that all we needed was townie players) you are a smart guy and, from what I have read of you, I would bet that you would have made this same play as town or scum. The fact that there was not an obvious counter wagon after you makes me lean scummy on you just as an unopposed lynch on day 1 would give me a townie read on the player who was up for lynch. I did not address Syllo because he did not seem to be a credible candidate to me at that point. I'm not going to vote Acro as he did not try to generate momentum from my vote on him and I will be voting somewhere else instead. nah brah, it is how I play. I don't vote for a scum read until I think they are scum even if the thread as a whole disagrees (look at my d1 town vibes on muso in ACME). I was about to support Kush as a townie. He talked to me pre game about his fear of the size of this game and the themey-ness of this game. He was truly concerned and did want a just Vanilla game. I would expect more posts from scum kush because he would want to match his meta. My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me. Mafia would want to be leader or in the party and the only way that is confirmed is if one of them is mafia. Ergo ## vote: kitaman I'm keeping up with the thread but doing my best to spam less as I have less to say. Trying to keep my posting short and sweet, this thread is hard enough to read without my help. I'll be around for a bit. Any questions: shoot. In the first post, he addresses Syllo as a serious candidate, then in the second he says "I didn't address syllo because he wasn't a serious candidate at that point". 1) I do think he was a serious candidate and 2) Prom did actually address syllo. Which makes me wonder why the hell he even said that. His whole argument about there not being a counterwagon to syllo/sand only makes sense if BOTH of them are scum. If one of them is scum, then the other IS the counterwagon. But what really bugs me is how he jumps off of the Acro vote because "Acro didn't try to gain any momentum with my vote" and onto kita, SOMEONE HE HAD NEVER EVEN MENTIONED. First off, that argument for jumping off of Acro doesn't make any sense. Does not trying to gain momentum make Acro scum? Certainly not. Scum would 100% want to garner support to get elected as party member if he already had some modicum of support behind him. Of course, he still has a town read on Acro because Acro is in kita's proposed party. But, it really feels like he's just looking for justification to hop off of Acro and onto the candidate who has him as a party member (and I actually find kita's justification for putting him in the party pretty weak anyways. I'm not positive if that makes me think kita is scum yet, though). Now, like I said earlier, I can see a townie doing that if at least one of the following two condition are met: 1) he, knowing he is town, believes that all 4 people of the proposed party are, in fact, town (which was what he said) 2) has a scum read on all the other available candidates. But there are a TON of benefits for a scum to do this. Especially a scum who ostensibly believes that 1 scum could cause a mission to fail. Bah, I'm kind of rambling a bit. TL;DR - Ran smear campaign on every other potential candidate in an effort to get the one candidate that had him in the party elected. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:42 Dienosore wrote: Ok here are the results of my investigation on GF. I believe him to be a leading candidate for the gallows: Mistake No. 1 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote: The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that... I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. @Dieno Seriously do you still have a scumread on me ? People told you that my weird wording was due to the fact that I don't perfectly master the English language... These all happened early and seem to come from a scumbag's perspective. While one post wouldn't necessarily indicate mafia, I became suspicious when they began to stack up quickly Mistake No. 2 [spoiler] On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Nice to play with you again Toadesstern . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel as if blah blah blah... Here he completely glosses over Toad's accusation of Keirathi, indirectly saying to me that he supported the idea of a scum Keirathi. Well, it turned out Keirathi was in the group when we succeeded, so...? Mistake No. 3: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. So he picked Oats for the obvious towny to gain people's trust, Djo who has always been suspicious to me, and Sandro who has recently come under heavy fire as a scumbag. Not very solid picks IMO. Also, why attack me at the end of it? He doesn't directly call me scum, but it seems as if he is trying to plant some seeds of doubt at least. He ends up switching his party no much later to Djo/Phagga/Dien. Why so flip floppy, I ask? He later revealed that I made the cut solely because of my roleclaim. Mistake No. 4 + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 01:19 goodkarma wrote: I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa He seems overly relieved to finally have someone call him town. Even threw in a cute little heart there too. My gut says he started off very scummy, then toned it down a bit after he decided to drop his campaign and try to blend in. He is definitely top 3 on my Mafiadar. My next target: Sandroba [/QUOTE] | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:45 syllogism wrote: None of the people who are pushing the idea that sandro is town are pushing kita lynch though (doesn't necessarily make them mafia, they could just be overlooking the fact). Marvel do you think sandro is mafia? I think kita for whatever reason isn't an easy target for this town to push. kita has had disproportionately little attention compared to sandroba. I find kita's play objectively considerably worse, for example his alternative lynch Cave and him giving his support to the sandroba lynch with no reasoning at all attached, plus his reads post from first cycle was ludicrous. I'm not confident at all that sandroba is mafia. Obviously he's clever enough to fake things, but little bits like when he asked me who my top town reads amongst the newer players were - it's quite a random question and one that makes sense more from a town perspective than a mafia perspective. I dislike how he's not been here recently, real life or no, to push any reads. That's the most worrying. | ||
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:15 Djodref wrote: I agree with that, you didn't say that people should chose town reads. You said they should chose people on which they have "certain reads on"... Care to expand on that ? When I made the certain reads post it was after it had been said out loud that scum would have to stay with themselves and not pick a replacement. It was important for me not to just say I would pick my town reads and the people I picked pick theirs. I wanted to choose three, have those three choose three, and then have everyone give their reasoning for their picks. Look at how much discussion that would create. So much information. Now what do we have? We have a successful event. We don't even know that everyone sylo picked was town, we don't know sylo is town. We now have an after the fact explanation that these were his town reads. Did he pick three townies bc he's scum and knows who town is so he wants to be successful for that town cred? Is he town and actually picked his town reads? (I think it's this one). Know what this is? Information, and thats great, but it's about one person's choices instead of four. I think we missed out on a lot. I think getting information from the picks of a lot of people is better than one. Yes, it worked out for us but that's results oriented thinking, IMO, which is bad. On November 24 2012 03:42 Djodref wrote: @TheChronicler I think you don't know how to keep your story straight  And how is this a change? Again, where's the contradiction? I'm missing it entirely. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? | ||
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:39 goodkarma wrote: @Z-Boson: Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote: Wat? But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change. I'm sure you were creating a case /s. then you found something you thought you could latch on and simply posted wat hoping people would take that as a case. There is no wat. I've already explained why I wouldn't necessarily have chosen my town reads (or even if I had I wouldn't have said so in thread) | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Syllo, since you are running the show right now, can you give us 4 people to concentrate on? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:05 Dienosore wrote: I think it's time to finalize our scumbag picks. Syllo, since you are running the show right now, can you give us 4 people to concentrate on? no, it isn't | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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