|
@ Sandro
On November 22 2012 11:13 sandroba wrote:
@hapa uh sure, I wouldn't want toad as party leader either, if that's your point.
Pretty much.
@ Z-Bo
On November 22 2012 11:13 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 11:10 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
No strong feelings on Acro. Sure he's aggressive, but I don't know enough about his general tendencies towards aggression to call it. Without a specific meta read, aggression is something that can be done by town or scum
@ Sandroba
I think you're missing my point on Toad. My contention isn't that he's "trying to appear townie" - that's no doubt a pretty stupid reason to suspect someone. My issue is that his campaign focuses on things like "decisiveness" and "activity," which are fairly bad reasons to think someone is a good party leader, let alone sufficient reasons to think someone is town.
@ Kita
Well it's hard to take you seriously when you accuse your competitors of being "vegetarians." What makes you a superior candidate over Syllo and Sandrob? Give us the cliffs. Definitely, but his kind seems to me like pointless agression. Like, what are the town motivations for the post I'm referring to above? It doesn't make any sense to me and I really don't get it.
Well we can wait for him to give an answer, but I'm not sold that it's completely "pointless." Criticizing someone's logic in'st a fruitless exercise and is pretty common. Hell townies picking fights for pointless reasons isn't all that uncommon.
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions.
I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed.
iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around.
marv:
On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game.
I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start.
Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out.
risk.nuke
Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move.
strongandbig
His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet.
kushm4sta
I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself.
|
@Hapa
And where does kei allude that he has any idea what his value is?
I really don't follow acro's logic, but I'll wait for him to respond then.
|
@ Kita
Strongly disagree with your analysis on iamperfection. His town meta involves plenty of those spammy one-liners. He's someone I'd strongly consider as a D1 option since his scum/town meta is pretty distinguishable. His play is leaning towards his townie side for sure right now.
I do agree with your assessment on kush, but for different reasons though. He's said that he doesn't care about who gets voted in for leader, which is pretty questionable. He also posted early that he was lost, confused, and had no reads. Then recently, he seems pretty adamant about lynching nl_Clarity.
|
On November 22 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 18:05 Toadesstern wrote:On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote:Nice to play with you again Toadesstern  . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed... On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote:This Keirathi guy is mafia. Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far. There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on. That being said I plan on becomming leader d1. Vote for me please :3I plan on sending people I trust to be town. Especially my townreads are pretty awesome and I have an easy time picking up townreads early on so I'd say this job is the right job for me. That being said I will not send people some kind of "majority" thinks I should send. I will send people I myself consider to be town and nothing else. That probably sounds stupid to those people who are new to this game but that's how these things are going. Don't listen to people telling you they will listen to some majority-decided group they will nominate if they get to be leader. Vote for someone who's willing and comfortable enough to make a decision on his own instead of trying to dodge the responsibility but wants to be leader for whatever reason nonetheless. I know it sounds awesome to have people telling you that your voice will be heard and everyone can hold hands and decide on the group together but that's just meaningless smooth-talk. You've got your vote. You vote for the leader, not more and not less. Everything else is in the hand of the guy in charge. That's how you influence this outcome and it's enough. More than that just makes it way to likely for people to be influenced. I will obviously only vote for someone I trust to be able to get good reads d1 himself in combination with a townread on said guy (duh). Having someone who's just going to roll a dice to determine who's going on the mission is not going to help us and let's face it, there's people who are at face value with rolling a dice, at least on d1. Vote me pretty please! What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel it's important that you provide your candidates you wish to bring to the party before people make a vote for you. We can't just vote for you because you're a vet that will perform well for us if you're town... On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. This is a very interesting point. But keep in mind that since lynching at the very least isn't commonplace, it might be possible for scum to deliberately bus themselves even early to gain some town credit and not get hurt that badly. Like maybe they spend their scumhunting time repeatedly picking on hypothetical scumperson A for half the game until he finally gets lynched. They go out looking townie, and don't have to worry about getting lynched again for a very long time... I'm still not convinced that focusing on lynchings as the primary means for town victory is best in this setup. Also, while faking scumreads on town is the standard task for scum in normal games, I'm thinking that faking townreads on scum as scum is going to be their focus this game. It will be easier for them to "blend in" doing this perhaps, but it should still be possible to find them, especially when a particular event outcome goes poorly. I still see this as the inverse of a normal game, where townreads are the priority. Scumreads may follow based on an unexpected vote.outcome to some extent, but only insofar as knowing whose opinions can be most trusted.for selecting the next party leader. I'm going to adress the 2.5 major points shortly:Yes I'm going to give you an idea of who I'm considering. I don't know what it's going to be like and I can't promise wether I'll call my exact team early but I'll give reads. I will try and explain the reasoning of the reads and what you're supposed to look into is that reasoning and not the reads themselves. I don't want you to only look at the results of my reads, I want you to look at my and everyone elses train of thought. That's the interessting part. Yes scum can bus themselves but that will lead to mistakes due to confirmation bias. That's the reason it's hard for mafia to fake reads in general. They know they are right or they know that they're wrong so they're approaching the situation completly different. And again, that's what you want to look into. If someone calls someone mafia but isn't able to give reasoning as to why he thinks so or if you think his reasoning is bad your alarmclocks should be ringing. And lastly yes I agree, mafias will most likely try and blend in by pointing out easy to do reads. That is just another reason why we shouldn't let people skate by doing nothing but delivering some weak reads as to why someone is supposed to be town. After all you're going to be right in most cases even if you roll a dice all the time due to the nature of alignment distribution, right? Picking out mafias is harder and is the standard by what we should be judging people. To clarify my opinion of Toad, I wanted to address the bolded point above. It's wrong. Or rather, it's likely wrong in this particular game format. In this game, mafia's goal isn't simply to sit around and try not to look like the scummiest person in the thread. Mafia's win-con is probably heavily weighted to the success and failure of the missions that we run as town. They want to be elected onto parties, and as a result, their goal is to look as townie as possible rather than simply blend in. So when I see toad post something like this, and then talk about how he'll "be more active" and "will take responsibility" - those are talking points I'd expect a mafia would use. Long story short, don't vote Toad. Even if you see eye-to-eye with me, he's a hard guy to read anyway - there's no way we'll have significant hints toward his alignment on D1.
Long story short: I never said my activity is all I got to offer. I said I am very well a vet myself but said that that activity is the difference between people like Syllo/Sandro and myself when someone asked what's making me a good candidate.
Also I'm from Europe, I usually don't like these US-style campaigns other people do in games when there's a mayoral election because I think that's trying to influence people by smoothtalking them.
I'm not a better scumhunter than Sandro or Syllo, I'd consider my abilty to successfully identify townies early on as pretty sharp and what I've got is what I've got. I won't promise more than what I said unless it was meant as a joke (this game it wasn't).
I'll make it clear here: Yes your right, I'd say the same as mafia, however I'm offering what I can offer to make sure you guys got a good idea about me, I'm cooperating if you will. If that's not enough that's stupid but I guess I can't do a thing about it.
Thx for the next guy basicly telling people they should be scared about me because I'm hard to read... that's really helpful. Do you really think that people like Marv, Kita, Syllo, Sandro are so much worse than me in that regard if you compare our abilities as mafias from past games? Because frankly it's hilarious that I get that all the time and yet noone is talking about those "risks" when adressing Syllo or Sandro. Almost like I'm WBG/BC-junior.
|
On November 22 2012 11:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hapa
And where does kei allude that he has any idea what his value is?
I really don't follow acro's logic, but I'll wait for him to respond then.
I was on my way to bed. But I can help you with this one. It's this thing called logic.
Keirathi's explanation for CJ being townie based on his first post was that CJ had a low influence value. This implies that CJ would know his influence value. I definitely have no clue about my own influence value (other than what might be given by role). The OP states they are hidden. So Keirathi was, insofar as I knew, making a rather dubious claim. My bullshit detector went off and I made a post calling his post bullshit.
Is my post intrinsically townie? Hell no. But I don't believe in letting bullshit bad logic stand. Keirathi explained himself adequately, implying that he had some more information than I do about his influence value.
|
On November 22 2012 11:27 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Kita
Strongly disagree with your analysis on iamperfection. His town meta involves plenty of those spammy one-liners. He's someone I'd strongly consider as a D1 option since his scum/town meta is pretty distinguishable. His play is leaning towards his townie side for sure right now.
I do agree with your assessment on kush, but for different reasons though. He's said that he doesn't care about who gets voted in for leader, which is pretty questionable. He also posted early that he was lost, confused, and had no reads. Then recently, he seems pretty adamant about lynching nl_Clarity.
Mind explaining this a bit better? I am 100% in agreement with Kita about iamperfection.
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'd also like to state a bit more setup speculation before I forget about it.
From a game design perspective, the mafia team has to have certain tools that sabotage our events in order to remain balanced. Without any outside intervention, assume the town comes up with a successful group of players. There appears to be no restriction about selecting the same players, meaning the mafia team has to have some way to combat selecting the same people every time. Even if they can only eliminate a couple of the players through night hits, they are still playing from a disadvantage. I think this is something we should keep in mind going forward.
On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:45 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. So why do you think I said that, then? do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.
While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
Finally, the Frog role claim may be the most important event that has taken place this game. There needs to be more discussion about it. I'll post my thoughts later tonight.
|
On November 22 2012 11:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 11:27 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Kita
Strongly disagree with your analysis on iamperfection. His town meta involves plenty of those spammy one-liners. He's someone I'd strongly consider as a D1 option since his scum/town meta is pretty distinguishable. His play is leaning towards his townie side for sure right now.
I do agree with your assessment on kush, but for different reasons though. He's said that he doesn't care about who gets voted in for leader, which is pretty questionable. He also posted early that he was lost, confused, and had no reads. Then recently, he seems pretty adamant about lynching nl_Clarity. Mind explaining this a bit better? I am 100% in agreement with Kita about iamperfection.
Sure thang. Keep in mind that I've played a ton of games with iamperfection, so I'm more familiar with his meta than most.
Iamp's town meta is probably best described as...
+ Show Spoiler +
His town games are hallmarked by a semi-confrontational attitude, flippancy, and general spamminess that all play toward this.
His scum play is far more careful. In addition, it's far more lurky. A good example is GSL III Mini.
|
On November 22 2012 11:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 11:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hapa
And where does kei allude that he has any idea what his value is?
I really don't follow acro's logic, but I'll wait for him to respond then. I was on my way to bed. But I can help you with this one. It's this thing called logic. Keirathi's explanation for CJ being townie based on his first post was that CJ had a low influence value. This implies that CJ would know his influence value. I definitely have no clue about my own influence value (other than what might be given by role). The OP states they are hidden. So Keirathi was, insofar as I knew, making a rather dubious claim. My bullshit detector went off and I made a post calling his post bullshit. Is my post intrinsically townie? Hell no. But I don't believe in letting bullshit bad logic stand. Keirathi explained himself adequately, implying that he had some more information than I do about his influence value.
No need to be condescending... I missed his other earlier post, presumably this one:
On November 22 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
(...)
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes.
Interesting.
|
Just to get this straight Hapa:
I don't want people to judge me or someone else solely by the plattform we are running. A single d1 post that is meant as your platform for running an election that proves you're town doesn't exist, therefore I'm not even trying to do such a thing, as is noone else.
I gave you an idea about what I thought about the game, how we should approach the game, how I think we should be focussing on scumhunting rather than talking about townreads all game long and that's it.
That doesn't make me mafia or town in the slightest. What should bring you to the conclusion that I'm town are the posts I did that are not based on the election because as you, what I posted in my "campaign" isn't clearing me as town, nor was it supposed to.
|
On November 22 2012 11:27 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On November 21 2012 18:05 Toadesstern wrote:On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote:Nice to play with you again Toadesstern . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed... On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote:This Keirathi guy is mafia. Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far. There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on. That being said I plan on becomming leader d1. Vote for me please :3I plan on sending people I trust to be town. Especially my townreads are pretty awesome and I have an easy time picking up townreads early on so I'd say this job is the right job for me. That being said I will not send people some kind of "majority" thinks I should send. I will send people I myself consider to be town and nothing else. That probably sounds stupid to those people who are new to this game but that's how these things are going. Don't listen to people telling you they will listen to some majority-decided group they will nominate if they get to be leader. Vote for someone who's willing and comfortable enough to make a decision on his own instead of trying to dodge the responsibility but wants to be leader for whatever reason nonetheless. I know it sounds awesome to have people telling you that your voice will be heard and everyone can hold hands and decide on the group together but that's just meaningless smooth-talk. You've got your vote. You vote for the leader, not more and not less. Everything else is in the hand of the guy in charge. That's how you influence this outcome and it's enough. More than that just makes it way to likely for people to be influenced. I will obviously only vote for someone I trust to be able to get good reads d1 himself in combination with a townread on said guy (duh). Having someone who's just going to roll a dice to determine who's going on the mission is not going to help us and let's face it, there's people who are at face value with rolling a dice, at least on d1. Vote me pretty please! What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel it's important that you provide your candidates you wish to bring to the party before people make a vote for you. We can't just vote for you because you're a vet that will perform well for us if you're town... On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. This is a very interesting point. But keep in mind that since lynching at the very least isn't commonplace, it might be possible for scum to deliberately bus themselves even early to gain some town credit and not get hurt that badly. Like maybe they spend their scumhunting time repeatedly picking on hypothetical scumperson A for half the game until he finally gets lynched. They go out looking townie, and don't have to worry about getting lynched again for a very long time... I'm still not convinced that focusing on lynchings as the primary means for town victory is best in this setup. Also, while faking scumreads on town is the standard task for scum in normal games, I'm thinking that faking townreads on scum as scum is going to be their focus this game. It will be easier for them to "blend in" doing this perhaps, but it should still be possible to find them, especially when a particular event outcome goes poorly. I still see this as the inverse of a normal game, where townreads are the priority. Scumreads may follow based on an unexpected vote.outcome to some extent, but only insofar as knowing whose opinions can be most trusted.for selecting the next party leader. I'm going to adress the 2.5 major points shortly:Yes I'm going to give you an idea of who I'm considering. I don't know what it's going to be like and I can't promise wether I'll call my exact team early but I'll give reads. I will try and explain the reasoning of the reads and what you're supposed to look into is that reasoning and not the reads themselves. I don't want you to only look at the results of my reads, I want you to look at my and everyone elses train of thought. That's the interessting part. Yes scum can bus themselves but that will lead to mistakes due to confirmation bias. That's the reason it's hard for mafia to fake reads in general. They know they are right or they know that they're wrong so they're approaching the situation completly different. And again, that's what you want to look into. If someone calls someone mafia but isn't able to give reasoning as to why he thinks so or if you think his reasoning is bad your alarmclocks should be ringing. And lastly yes I agree, mafias will most likely try and blend in by pointing out easy to do reads. That is just another reason why we shouldn't let people skate by doing nothing but delivering some weak reads as to why someone is supposed to be town. After all you're going to be right in most cases even if you roll a dice all the time due to the nature of alignment distribution, right? Picking out mafias is harder and is the standard by what we should be judging people. To clarify my opinion of Toad, I wanted to address the bolded point above. It's wrong. Or rather, it's likely wrong in this particular game format. In this game, mafia's goal isn't simply to sit around and try not to look like the scummiest person in the thread. Mafia's win-con is probably heavily weighted to the success and failure of the missions that we run as town. They want to be elected onto parties, and as a result, their goal is to look as townie as possible rather than simply blend in. So when I see toad post something like this, and then talk about how he'll "be more active" and "will take responsibility" - those are talking points I'd expect a mafia would use. Long story short, don't vote Toad. Even if you see eye-to-eye with me, he's a hard guy to read anyway - there's no way we'll have significant hints toward his alignment on D1. Long story short: I never said my activity is all I got to offer. I said I am very well a vet myself but said that that activity is the difference between people like Syllo/Sandro and myself when someone asked what's making me a good candidate. Also I'm from Europe, I usually don't like these US-style campaigns other people do in games when there's a mayoral election because I think that's trying to influence people by smoothtalking them. I'm not a better scumhunter than Sandro or Syllo, I'd consider my abilty to successfully identify townies early on as pretty sharp and what I've got is what I've got. I won't promise more than what I said unless it was meant as a joke (this game it wasn't). I'll make it clear here: Yes your right, I'd say the same as mafia, however I'm offering what I can offer to make sure you guys got a good idea about me, I'm cooperating if you will. If that's not enough that's stupid but I guess I can't do a thing about it. Thx for the next guy basicly telling people they should be scared about me because I'm hard to read... that's really helpful. Do you really think that people like Marv, Kita, Syllo, Sandro are so much worse than me in that regard if you compare our abilities as mafias from past games? Because frankly it's hilarious that I get that all the time and yet noone is talking about those "risks" when adressing Syllo or Sandro. Almost like I'm WBG/BC-junior.
I agree that I should probably be considering the scum-play of Syllo and Sandro a bit more, and that's something that I'll have to look into more when I have time. However, fact is that you're not an easy fellow to read. And I bring this up because you yourself have referenced and played off of this aspect of your gameplay in the past:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=52#1029
You're just not a guy that I'm comfortable having in a position of power so early in the game. The "talking point" stuff ("activity" + "decisiveness") also makes me second-guess your motives here.
|
On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand
I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.[/QUOTE]
While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
[/QUOTE]
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.
|
On November 22 2012 11:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Just to get this straight Hapa:
I don't want people to judge me or someone else solely by the plattform we are running. A single d1 post that is meant as your platform for running an election that proves you're town doesn't exist, therefore I'm not even trying to do such a thing, as is noone else.
I gave you an idea about what I thought about the game, how we should approach the game, how I think we should be focussing on scumhunting rather than talking about townreads all game long and that's it.
That doesn't make me mafia or town in the slightest. What should bring you to the conclusion that I'm town are the posts I did that are not based on the election because as you, what I posted in my "campaign" isn't clearing me as town, nor was it supposed to.
I totes get that a campaign, much less your initial post, isn't alignment indicative. However it can give me hints towards your alignment and I thought it was a scummy approach to things.
As for your "non-campaign" posts, nothing in there remotely brings me to the "conclusion" that you're town. I have no idea how that's a realistic expectation.
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 22 2012 11:43 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote:On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.
While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
[/QUOTE]
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.[/QUOTE]
Yes it appears you are correct. Apologies.
|
EBWOP: Fixing quote tags:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +Keirathi wrote:iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.
|
My current thoughts on party leader:
So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him.
Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was.
Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game.
So, in Summary...:
While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this...
My Current Plan:
I will be reassessing my reads by going back through everyone's filters, and selecting my own party. There are plenty here who are not as familiar with my "meta," or who have never played with me before. I can understand how it is that it would be hard for them to vote for me or take me as seriously as their favorite vet. However, blindly voting your favorite guy is a system I refuse to be a part of.
The heavy vet preference from other players comes, as best I can tell, from this logic:
"Well, I'm too lazy/incompetent/troll to play this game so I want to vote for someone who I know actually tries..."
So your reads on others may not be perfect, but who cares? Why even bother playing a game of mafia if you're just going to throw all your eggs into one basket like all you who have voted for sandroba/syllo have? I myself would rather put all my money on red at the roulette table + Show Spoiler +. At least I would be honest with myself that I was making a completely unnecessary and foolish risk with my money...
Mafia manipulation:
Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that.
As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it.
By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to.
In Conclusion:
Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours.
|
That was waaayyyyyyy longer than I expected... But I will be reviewing all filters and provide my candidates in the next couple hours.
|
On November 22 2012 11:36 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 11:29 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 11:27 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Kita
Strongly disagree with your analysis on iamperfection. His town meta involves plenty of those spammy one-liners. He's someone I'd strongly consider as a D1 option since his scum/town meta is pretty distinguishable. His play is leaning towards his townie side for sure right now.
I do agree with your assessment on kush, but for different reasons though. He's said that he doesn't care about who gets voted in for leader, which is pretty questionable. He also posted early that he was lost, confused, and had no reads. Then recently, he seems pretty adamant about lynching nl_Clarity. Mind explaining this a bit better? I am 100% in agreement with Kita about iamperfection. Sure thang. Keep in mind that I've played a ton of games with iamperfection, so I'm more familiar with his meta than most. Iamp's town meta is probably best described as... + Show Spoiler +His town games are hallmarked by a semi-confrontational attitude, flippancy, and general spamminess that all play toward this. His scum play is far more careful. In addition, it's far more lurky. A good example is GSL III Mini.
Holy balls just realized my picture link was broken =(
http://imgur.com/gallery/5vQxV
@ GK
Yeah I completely agree with you there. Candidates need to be putting forth their proposed "teams" so we can get some voting info.
|
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Cant believe you guys aren't even considering me for first party leader. Would it help if I made three towny reads and put them all under the scope with me? Fine. Give me a minute to whip something up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Do_98efd6_1365733.jpg)
