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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody. Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. | ||
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remag
Germany354 Posts
On November 06 2012 08:12 John F Kennedy wrote: ApeX is pretty bm but I doubt he hacks. We played and i destroyed him with a 12 drone rush. I have a hard time believe someone who hacks who get beat so badly by that. thats a pretty close mindet statement. so he has to play a game straight up and you are convinced? | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
you call posting in this thread a waste of time, follow up by telling me what to do, belittle the work done in the thread, and finish it off with some condescending life advice and tell me to go 'find a pattern in the cheat program to automatic detect it in the future'. i think you understand why i'm getting annoyed with you (my age and maturity notwithstanding). a quick glance at the OP will tell you that it's not useless (it has even helped me personally a couple times on the ladder when i face players i remember from this thread). trying to make a cheat detection program requires a considerable amount of work, knowledge, coding and time from the people involved, if even possible. posting and analysing replays in this thread on the other hand can be and is being done as a community effort, where any poster with a decent knowledge of the game, a computer, a copy of SC2 and an internet connection can contribute to the fight. if you want to suggest a different approach i would welcome it, but vague comments about 'automatic detect in the future' while pissing on a great community effort that has produced results wont cut it, and if you insist on advocating defeatism you shouldn't be posting here at all. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On November 06 2012 08:44 nunez wrote: @skeldark you call posting in this thread a waste of time, follow up by telling me what to do, belittle the work done in the thread, and finish it off with some condescending life advice and tell me to go 'find a pattern in the cheat program to automatic detect it in the future'. i think you understand why i'm getting annoyed with you (my age and maturity notwithstanding). a quick glance at the OP will tell you that it's not useless (it has even helped me personally a couple times on the ladder when i face players i remember from this thread). trying to make a cheat detection program requires a considerable amount of work, knowledge, coding and time from the people involved, if even possible. posting and analysing replays in this thread on the other hand can be and is being done as a community effort, where any poster with a decent knowledge of the game, a computer, a copy of SC2 and an internet connection can contribute to the fight. if you want to suggest a different approach i would welcome it, but vague comments about 'automatic detect in the future' while pissing on a great community effort that has produced results wont cut it, and if you insist on advocating defeatism you shouldn't be posting here at all. You is also the plural of you. So no i did not tell you alone to do that. I said thats it would be more helpful if people in this thread did that. With a pattern known, guys like me could do "the considerable amount of work, knowledge and codeing." If you dont understand what a such an pattern is or how to find it, you are obvious the wrong one for this job. Other people in this thread do know that and could find this patterns if they look out for it. Again last offtopic: + Show Spoiler + Because you keep on going to tell me to leave, i assume you did not understood what i wrote. Zweigaming did a great job and i told him that before in this thread. The cheater are just to many for this way by now and he realised that. I have a different opinion than you, how to hunt cheaters. Any opinion different to yours, is in your eye an attack of your integrity. You see this as an "piss on" someone work. You are not able to see the diffrence between an different opinion and an personal attack. More than that you see it as an personal attack to yourself even when you are not mentioned at any point. More than even that, your natural reaction to it is aggression. If you dont see that this kind of behaviour just reflect your own insecurity about yourself i dont know what will. Because you keep reading different words than i wrote and this is total off-topic i will end this discussion here. i wish you the very best. | ||
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Melaine
United States56 Posts
On November 05 2012 02:40 ArroW.LionS wrote: WHY is Senorchang and his Smurfs IIIIIIIII still not banned ? and Nerffy too ? why they are not banned ? they hack and hack and hack and blizzard dont care or what ? oO The 3rd party Map hacks these days are mostly External. Meaning they are overlays that blizzard's warden can't detect nor does it touch anything internal, With out soild proof via Warden Flags, Blizzard can't really ban people based on player replays, which is why you see lack of bans. The only way Blizzard would be able to detect External Overlay hacks, is to violate U.S.A Federal privacy laws, meaning blizzard getting access to peoples personal files, which would land blizzard open to law suits that would pretty much shut the entire company down. internal hacks that inject and mess with the memory of sc2 can be detected with warden, but again hackers can place protection vs warden. So sorry to say it's very hard for blizzard to ban players, So don't get mad @ Blizzard, it's really out of there hands for the most part. The player report has to have soild proof in the replay... as in someone clicking on units in the fog. Blizzard won't ban players for blindly countering something, as many Pros do safe builds which they assume and prepare for something that may or may not come, can't ban a player for that. All you can really do is post replays here and I guess "out" players as hackers, But I don't think the hackers themselfs really care to much )=. So in a nut shell---internal hacks=cat and mouse type thing with blizzard seting up new methoods, and the hacker finding and puting protection in place. External hacks=nothing blizzard can do anything about, External means Overlays that work outside of sc2, and Draw Information rather then injecting into sc2 memory. I hate hackers to, but best thing you can do is just become a better sc2 player and over come a hacker, I watch people like Idra and other pros play vs MH in Gm, and they almost never lose to then, so just get better, and I can assure you that most MH players are pretty poor, even the ones in GM/Master. | ||
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President Dead
97 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:31 President Dead wrote: Are you guys noticing any of these players actually being banned with external hacks? If the hack is external, which most smart players will opt for, there's no absolutely no way for them to get banned. I'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is? I sure do like watching the replays for evidence, though. I don't have a girlfriend. Oh the snarkiness ~ | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:27 Melaine wrote: The 3rd party Map hacks these days are mostly External. Meaning they are overlays that blizzard's warden can't detect nor does it touch anything internal, With out soild proof via Warden Flags, Blizzard can't really ban people based on player replays, which is why you see lack of bans. The only way Blizzard would be able to detect External Overlay hacks, is to violate U.S.A Federal privacy laws, meaning blizzard getting access to peoples personal files, which would land blizzard open to law suits that would pretty much shut the entire company down. internal hacks that inject and mess with the memory of sc2 can be detected with warden, but again hackers can place protection vs warden. So sorry to say it's very hard for blizzard to ban players, So don't get mad @ Blizzard, it's really out of there hands for the most part. The player report has to have soild proof in the replay... as in someone clicking on units in the fog. Blizzard won't ban players for blindly countering something, as many Pros do safe builds which they assume and prepare for something that may or may not come, can't ban a player for that. All you can really do is post replays here and I guess "out" players as hackers, But I don't think the hackers themselfs really care to much )=. So in a nut shell---internal hacks=cat and mouse type thing with blizzard seting up new methoods, and the hacker finding and puting protection in place. External hacks=nothing blizzard can do anything about, External means Overlays that work outside of sc2, and Draw Information rather then injecting into sc2 memory. I hate hackers to, but best thing you can do is just become a better sc2 player and over come a hacker, I watch people like Idra and other pros play vs MH in Gm, and they almost never lose to then, so just get better, and I can assure you that most MH players are pretty poor, even the ones in GM/Master. on paper true. But they did not ban the internal too. There are many people who drop hacked over a year ago and are not banned at all. Its super easy to detect from blizzard site. Also that warden updates so obvious helps cheat creators a lot. Short: -Its very hard to impossible to detect hacks on this kind of games. -Good game creators make it way harder to cheat ( e.g. not sending full map information to client) -Blizzard is lazy and also incompetent when it comes to anti-cheat and some other stuff By the way: Anyone remember the blizzcon before release where they talk about how super cheat secure sc2 will be ... oO | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:44 skeldark wrote: -Good game creators make it way harder to cheat ( e.g. not sending full map information to client) They don't send "full map information" anywhere. It's a P2P networking model; they only send input information around. Every client has full map information, but not because they were sent it. It's because they computed it; that's how the networking model works. It's a lower-latency, higher efficiency model than client/server. They went with what is more efficient, not safety. | ||
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Melaine
United States56 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:44 skeldark wrote: on paper true. But they did not ban the internal too. There are many people who drop hacked over a year ago and are not banned at all. Its super easy to detect from blizzard site. Also that warden updates so obvious helps cheat creators a lot. Short: -Its very hard to impossible to detect hacks on this kind of games. -Good game creators make it way harder to cheat ( e.g. not sending full map information to client) -Blizzard is lazy and also incompetent when it comes to anti-cheat and some other stuff By the way: Anyone remember the blizzcon before release where they talk about how super cheat secure sc2 will be ... oO yeah sadly very good coders and hackers found out how profitable creating very powerful hacks and selling them for a high price, these coders put in place protection vs warden, they pretty much took apart sc2 them self's and reversed engineered sc2 making it almost impossible for blizzard to do much, Blizzard in theory could stop these people, but it would require large sums of money and time which they rather spend on dev of new projects. Hiring folks with the skill to help prevent cheating ect is very expensive for companies these days, like it is a true cat and mouse game blizzard just does not want to play. Hope blizzard has something special for HOTS, But atm there are already hacks making beta hots mhs | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Melaine
United States56 Posts
On November 06 2012 11:12 Doodsmack wrote: ^Always funny to see low-post-count accounts in here advocating against this thread. They always seem to know a lot about the hacks and like to call the creators "top coders." I remember one guy sounded like he either knew VC personally or was VC himself, and called VC "one of the top coders in the world". He basically couldn't get off VC's nuts, and actually used some of the same language that VC had used in a post earlier that day on the popular hacking site ("TL kids just like to give themselves boners with that thread"). The hack creators are nothing special and the only thing they've achieved is taking advantage of kids with too much allowance money to spend. Please stop trying to protect your self-interest by arguing that hackers can never be stopped, despite the fact that 1) Blizzard does in fact issue bans based on replay analysis and 2) Blizzard has posted in this thread showing us the list of banned users who we identified and who had been banned following Blizzard's replay analysis. The argument that since the hackers can't be stopped completely, the community can't make any progress in keeping after them is a logical fallacy and I trust you're smart enough to understand why. Not to be disrespectful, But the facts I stated has nothing to do with who is doing what. I hate hackers, And my BF has been posting on team liquid for 4 years now, I just got into sc2, But I'm computer sci major along with my bf. I would like you to take the time to Google external programs, and understand in order for blizzard to do anything, they would have to break privacy laws in order to do so. I dunno what the wall of text and rage from you is about. I just simply stated the facts and what blizzard is doing/can do in a legal way. And I understand Blizzard and the cost to hire someone to just work on anti cheat systems, (its expensive) Blizzard has protection in place and I'm sure HOTS blizzard will release stronger features. But I stated the facts about WOL and what the status is now. All I said was replying to a member asking why these people who have been hacking for 2 years+ have not been banned. If you took the time to understand basic things, and read my post, I was defending Blizzard and all the QQ and hate in this thread against blizzard. People expect Blizzard to ban people @ will, they don't realize how much is involved. Blizzard also looks @ a company point of view and what is going to be best for them in terms of income. | ||
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Vundox
United States182 Posts
On November 06 2012 08:32 remag wrote: thats a pretty close mindet statement. so he has to play a game straight up and you are convinced? *i will return to edit this post when i get home with replays i have a handful of replays that provide undeniable proof that apex is a scumbag maphacker; primarily blindly building defense against cheese | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
community action that takes little effort, where everyone who wants can easily contribute and produce results that not only helps you at a personal level (when you know the player you are playing against is a hacker) and the community as a whole (outcasting confirmed hackers), but also can help blizzard in spotting ne'er-do-wells. gm/master map hacker thread fighting. | ||
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WonnaPlay
Netherlands912 Posts
Maphacker SuiNy (EU) I kinda go for a 2 stargate build just for the heck of it. But this guy sees and reacts to everything without even being close to scouting it. He also prereacts to my moving probe and doesn't respond to a fake proxy pylon. Replay: http://drop.sc/271921 It is really gay that you can't even try strategy's in a strategy game just because of this. I've ofcourse also reported him, yet that won't matter. Edit; Wow he made a ridiculous amount of spores, without even 'knowing' that I even had a stargate... | ||
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Zark
United States50 Posts
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Nostrada
Finland13 Posts
Server: EU League+Rank: Master league rank 11 Replay: http://drop.sc/272011 Description/what to look for into the replay: No scouting at all. Pulls all drones from 3rd, makes a spine wall to his natural base and prepares to basetrade without seeing anything. Basically perfect basetrade counter to immortal-sentry all-in. | ||
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Zennith
United States795 Posts
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-ChrisJ-
France21 Posts
Another cheater... no scooting (PVP) and he make a counter build (wall with pylon to counter 4gates), just see (HANDSOME!) on Entombed Valley.... But I WON ahah ! | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
 AngryHobbitServer: EU League: Master, 607 points, 63 wins / 49 losses Description / Replays: AngryHobbit(zerg, bot left) - SuprNostrada(protoss, top right) @ cloud kingdom, http://drop.sc/272011 opens hatch first, hides drone from the scouting probe. nos going nex first. @5:00 adding on antoher hatch. has not sent any overlords in position to scout. doesn't even peek up at front with lings. @8:40 going +1 melee, speed and lair, has roach warren down. nos adding on gates and pumping immortals. @9:10 sends a pack of lings around to the top side of the map. at this point he still has 0 scouting info. @9:50 starts up a wall of spines at his natural as nos is moving out and pulls the drones from his natural. he has no vision of the moveout. basetrades and wins. the complete lack of scouting along with the good army movement and decision making makes this very suspicious. the sentry immortal all in is very common on cloud kingdom (there's even a big S for sentry/immortal dominating the middle of the map), but 0 scouting at third or front? one of the lowest apm zergs i have played as well (hovering around 100 in sc2 gears, i usually play 150+). adding a replay where i played vs him. didn't think any of it until now. AngryHobbit(zerg, bot left) vs soulbrother (me) (zerg, top right) @ shakuras plateu, http://drop.sc/272090 @1:03 has saved up minerals to 9 pool and moves drone to the bottom of his creep do plant the pool, but soulbrother is drone scouting on 9 (he has no vision of this). he moves it back builds an overlord instead soulbrother going hatch first grabbing gas before pool, angryhobbit goes pool then hatch. @5:00 he plants a roach warren. @6:00 soulbrother scouts the roach warren with lings, he elects not to make rooaches and starts up an evo and a second gas instead. @6:45 soulbrother sends a pack of speedlings across the map, angryhobbit is making 3 roaches. @7:30 angryhobbit starting +1 ranged and going lair. pumping roaches. @9:00 making a nydus. at this point he has still not scouted soulbrothers base at all. @10:00 plants the nydus, looks back at his natural and leaves as the nydus is being attacked. again, complete lack of scouting besides the overlord for spotting the nydus and the decision to blindly not 9 pool when soulbrother was sending dronescout is suspicious. also have a replay where he 9 pools successfully, scouts me first with his ovi on antiga. nothing special after that. AngryHobbit(zerg, top right) vs soulbrother (zerg, bot left) @ cloud kingdom, http://drop.sc/272775 playing completely blind. @6:45 has a roach warren, puts down two evos, but then instead of getting upgrades with his gas makes 7 roaches. (i'm making a lot of speedlings) @7:00 preemptively pulls all his drones from the natural as 4 lings run in. (about 30 more are on the way) adding this for later. preemptively pulls drones from natural when my lings run in. On November 07 2012 12:20 agfoxGnom wrote: AngryHobbit(zerg, top left) vs flyHigh (terran, bot left) @ antiga shipyard, http://drop.sc/272095 never scouted placed his 3rd at the 12 o'clock without even seeing me blocking his "usual" 3rd blindly reacts to drops at 15mins. pushes cross map never scouting my spawn edited by me. | ||
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LuckyGnomTV
Russian Federation367 Posts
Player: CrazyAPM, Protoss Server: EU ID: http://sc2ranks.com/ru/135792/CrazyAPM Here you can see replay http://drop.sc/272092 p.s. I dont wanna to write much because good players will see that his maphacking, but just for some who can not get what I mean. Hes blindly goes 15nexus into gate (without forge), but the most interesting that before he placed it his apm was 0 for some time what usually happens when mh player uses camera block. Most interesting is goes later, after my agression he places 3rd nexus without even hiding this because he sees me going fast 3cc from 1 rax. After I do double forge hes blindly goes 2 forge and ect. | ||
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