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On November 01 2012 14:00 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:13 Mementoss wrote:
Nooooo chezinu ninjad me good thing I checked, I cant do the alphabet very well I have to say it completely out all the time lol. Oh, I agree with that fact that purposely fucking up is scummy because it gives you a free pass not to post, however, BKE seemed to be not understanding the rules at first, and the second time the posts were 3 min apart so its possible for ninja post. Poop, just to clarify this doesn't excuse his ridiuclous joke vote/call out on a "scum slip", it seemed like a desperate attempt to put fault on someone, but he fucked up with the rules. Qonsequently BKE, so far is the only player that stands out to me as somewhat scummy.
Reading chezinus last post, I still don't agree with the mass claim idea. Sit will still end up with everyone claiming audience memebers. Tangerine, chezinu, why do you feeld it was nessecary to give the player list :S ? Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 06:08 Mementoss wrote:On October 31 2012 11:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Love to. My reason is that at this point in the thread he is the scummiest. "No way," you say, "he hasn't posted yet!" Often, that is reason enough. Proof of his scumminess is that he is a general liability.
Quack is the sound ducks make. Really though I'm gonna change my vote to Adam there's no way that post is town. Seriously if he was reforming posts he'd reform his post into that post instead of making a complaining post. Trying to get cred when he deserves none. Untie! Going to gym, fuck the rules. Only got 5 minutes but would like to comment on a few things.
The above is your case against Adam right? I don't consider it the strongest case, as you above seem pretty confident in it, but the fact that he hasn't been back to contribute is pretty un easing. leaning scummy on him right now. I half agree to what you say about crossfire too blazinghand. His posts were unreadable thats for sure. I had to re-read several paragraphs 3 times before I even understood what the point was, and then it didn't even deliverable the point well -_-. This is more likely xfire posting as town because he was being ridiculous, but I also think there is a possibility he started posting these long unreadable fluffy statements, so that maybe someone else would follow his ridiculous posting style and muck up the town completely. Thats scum intereference. Also, he actually looks to the non-reader, that he is contributing more than most, when really, hes more interested in literary skills and looking town, than actually finding scum. ATM I would be happy to vote either Xfire or BKE, (which I stated earlier why I thought his fake joke stuff seemed scummy, while his purposely?? getting restrictions wasn't liekly scummy), could go for Adam too, but I would rather wait for him to come into the thread again before doing that. Gunna lay down a vote Xfire atm. Need to re-read the thread and consider all the options, I have been either asleep or at work for this whole thread thus far. ##Vote Crossfire Xtremely weird change of opinion, there. You go from saying its scummy to blatantly not follow the alphabet rules, to doing it yourself without any indication why you suddenly don't care anymore. Zero sense does that make.
W - i realized how easy it was to mess up by mistake later in the day, also it wasn't like i was having a back to back conversation with someone, i was going out like i said, so it made no difference, i would rather be able to express myself legible and not take double the time if im not going to be near a computer, it makes sense to me, it would be scummy if a couple of us were having a conversation leading to discussion than a mess up was purposely done, not if you were peacing out anyways and have no chance of posting, and gives you a readable post.
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Xtremely disappointed in you mementoss, play the game.
Yeah also - what do you think about BKEXE (i think he is scum, please to comment)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Strongandbig, get off your high horse. Nobody's breaking the rules by not following the alphabet game. Basically, you can post once an hour or you have to post using the alphabet game. The minigames don't have rewards, they're just played for points that don't matter in this game, and create a posting restriction. Choosing to be legible and have larger, non-alphabetical posts that have hour gaps in between them is an entirely viable choice. In fact, given that most people in this game have made ~10 posts over the course of 30 hours, I daresay it's completely viable to follow the 1-hour rule instead of the alphabet rule. The chief rule is playing to your wincon, and nothing else matters.
Since you're around, what do you think of Adam? You made a pretty useless comment about his self-imposed time out earlier, and asked me about his posting after I voted, to which I have responded. I'd like to hear your comments.
For anyone who thinks the Adam case is just meta, let me stir this in for you: we're 30+ hours in, and Adam has only taken one real position-- his vote on mementoss (link). He's backtracked everything else, and pulled away from any other statements he's made. And his case on mementoss? Pretty meek. Pretty lame. Especially the takedown of Mementoss' dj argument, which I found entirely convincing.
For gonzaw, you spend about 6-7 sentences flip-flopping about on your read on me. If you have something to say, say it-- I'll gladly respond. If you find me too diplomatic, that's fine, but don't end it with "meh". Not staking out a position isn't good for letting us know what you think, and it's not good for letting me respond in an adequate fashion. That being said, I like your pressure on Adam, and I find it telling that he doesn't post a case or push anyone until A) I have called him out for playing his scum meta and B) you also call him out for not making any cases 24+ hours into the game. And by "telling" I mean "Adam is scum"
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Blazinghand, I am not saying you are violating the "mafia rules" or being "immoral" as the mafia community would see it. Churlish is a better adjective to describe your behavior than "cheating" would be. Dastardly, you're not being. Essentially, I think that "we joined this game to have fun with minigames in a mafia context, and just ignoring them isn't in the spirit of the game." For sure, you're well within your rights and the game rules to do what you've been doing, but I think the game would be more fun all around if we were all trying to follow the minigame rules and I hope the incentives to do so are stronger next time around.
Going on to Adam. His posts this game "sound weirder" or "sound less genuine" to me than anyone else's except perhaps crossfire, who's playing the mad poet or something like that. It's hard to say whether that's because he's having a hard time posting naturally within the context of the minigame, or if it's because he is uncomfortable being scum or because he's not "being genuine" (I think that's how Sandroba described his scumhunting in some recent game I was following, reading people's posts and looking for people not being genuine etc).
Just read through his filter a couple of times, it's not very long.
K, here's one thing - he starts off with his "meta argument" on BKE, but then drops the read for no reason when he moves on to mementoss. Later, he says "BKE isn't scum to him," I would very much like to know what in BKE's filter gave him that impression because (as I outlined in my previous post) BKE's filter looks pretty terrible to me, and the worst parts are the parts that came after Adam's "meta read".
Mementoss case, I find pretty unpersuasive, I think that comparing pre-game and in-game enthusiasm levels is a valid tactic. "Not posting much of value" or "not having strong opinions" can be a decent case to make if it's clear and pronounced but it's hardly unique to Mementoss at the moment, I would contend that BKE, Djagulingu, maybe hopeless also fall into that category.
Oh, something else - he promises very early on to be like super active, but he is far less active than many other people.
Putting the shoe on the other foot, however, his claims about the meta component to your case are pretty compelling. Qualifying that - I know your case is not mainly based on meta anymore. Really, however, unless you disagree with him that his more recent games are different from your claim about his meta, it should be recognized that that element of the case on him is weak.
Something else you argue - he did originally take a position against BKE and later backtrack on it. Though I've said above that I don't understand why he backtracked, and though I really want to hear his reasoning, and though I think it's scummy to backtrack from one position and jump on another one without explaining yourself, I do think that at least taking a position is better than not taking a position, even if there is scummy backtracking.
Ultimately, here's where I stand. Voting for BKE because I think he's scummier - his positions are less both in number and firmness, and there's also the factor of him doing what I believe is "smokescreening" by talking so much about "how important it is for people to vote in both threads" and then about "how people didn't understand what he meant when he was talking about how important it is for people to vote in both threads", neither of which matter very much. With that said, however, I think a lot of what you say about Adam makes sense, and I wouldn't strenuously object to voting him if that's necessary to get a majority.
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Xtra point on that post - BH what do you think about BKE?
You said you expected him to add to his case but he really didn't add anything of substance, while keeping his vote on and professing that he believed in it.
Zero with me - do you think he's scum, would you be willing to vote him?
Also I just reread the OP, we don't need to get an absolute majority to lynch, but there are still reasons why we shouldn't just spread our votes around willy-nilly, not least of which is that it gives a coordinated scum team more control over the lynch.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Xcellent analysis, S&B. You did a good amount of work, and I can respect that. Zero days, a few hours left to the deadline approaching, so I'm willing to vote for BKEXE-- his placing a vote on obvious townie Hope1 with no reasoning makes no sense to me.
As far as Adam's backtracking, it's worth noting that changing your mind is not a scumtell, but arbitrarily shifting your views with no reasoning is. Basically anything that obfuscates town understanding what's going on is bad. Crossfire is guilty of this, but in my view his transgressions are not willfull, but accidental. Don't think he's off the hook-- I expect him to get more on the ball as the game continues.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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On November 01 2012 06:55 Blazinghand wrote:gonzaw-- I'm willing to buy that you did in fact read my post, just not very carefully. Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 01:22 Blazinghand wrote:
The game is fine and all, and if you want to banter and go back and forth, do it. But the terrible lobstrosity of a post that crossfire puked into the thread is the kind of thing that doesn't help. There are times to break the rules. In a way, chezinu knows this better than anyone here, but hes too busy being chezinu to lead town.
breaking the rules is not a scum move, any more than simply not posting for an hour is a scum move. tons of people have 1+ hour gaps in between their craptacularly bad alphabetical posts-- you should just make decent, good posts instead if you're not in the middle of a conversation. I don't know how this seems to be dogmatically in favor of using the 1-hour wait method at all times or the rhyming method at all times. You should read my posts more clearly and think a bit harder about the game. Part of the reason I'm on your ass is that you're not playing like you normally do. This focus from you, and the lack of serious pressure on multiple targets, that's not like you. The gonzaw I know, when he plays town, has fullisades of questions for everyone. Why just this one Keirathi case? Where's your usual constant interrogation and probing of everyone in the town? I remember your posts as being kinda annoying and having formatting issues, and maybe being unfocused, but also being unrelenting in their pressure on multiple targets. What gives?
Forgive me for not commenting on this sooner sooner, but I just now had the available time to do the research. Go back and look at Aperture 2. He literally made a case/accusation against EVERY SINGLE PLAYER day 1. Its just such a huge disconnect from "everyone is scummy, lets question/accuse them!" to "well, this one guy is kinda scummy because he hasn't posted as much as I expect him to". Just my opinion, but this doesn't really fit the town gonzaw that I remember either.
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On November 01 2012 21:16 strongandbig wrote:
Frankly, I hope that the next minigame has a stricter punishment or reward. Got to admit this thing where people are just ignoring the rules is disgraceful.
Hmmmmm, it's getting later in the day. It seems like there's some cases to consider.
Just, I'm still looking at BKE, and I don't like what I see. Kay? Like his whole filter is mostly taken up with talking about how much he hates people who vote in the thread and not in the voting thread. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I see this as a lot of smokescreen - it's just way too unimportant to be taking up the large percentage of his filter that it is. Next there's his early-game jump-on vote on Crossfire. On the one hand, we have the meta analysis that Adam did, indicating that this is different from how he's entered games as a townie in the past - this only goes so far, but it is a point worth keeping in mind.
Plus, he kept the vote on Crossfire for quite some time, all the while talking about how important votes in the voting thread are and how they should match up with stances in the main thread - this is the important part of his advice about "not going back on your word" - this seems inconsistent to me, and one thing I've learned in Mafia is that when players ascribe a lot of importance to some piece of advice on how to play the game but then don't follow that advice themselves, it indicates that advice exists to cover up for lack of contribution in other areas.
Question: what contribution has he made other than that stuff about votes and such? Really, nothing except his little "case" on hopeless1der. Sure, hopeless hasn't been a paragon of town-leading shining knighthood, but he's definitely been more involved in the thread than BKE. True, hopeless's original reasoning for voting BKE wasn't great, but he follows up on it in a way that BKE didn't do with his vote on crossfire.
Ultimately, I feel the need to do the following:
##vote: BroodKingEXE
K, first of all the vote on Cross stayed there cause my scum reads haven't changed. Lots of people dont remove that initial joke post until after they have found scum. My vote for cross needed to be that thread for my own sanity, even if it was a joke. Now when I meant that they should match it should be from a technical standpoint, no matter the fact that it is a joke or not.
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Kay, seems I had less time than planned, since I'm leaving to uni in like...10 minutes
Like, fuck, I'm not very sure who is scum at this moment, but I have to vote someone.
Mementos seems only concerned with his vote on Xfire and nothing else and it wasn't a strong vote either (didn't even have reasons for Xfire being scum, just "unreadable"). No, like, why the fuck haven't you made a proper case on him yet? Or are you just "policy lynching" him like BH said?
Possibly, he's just justifying himself with "oh I don't have time" or "oh I'm at the gym" when he spends the time he's here only defending himself about his Xfire vote. Que?
Right, fuck gotta make this quick.
So, damn; I think Keirathi is the most likely scum out of all of them.Oh fuck this post restriction I won't make it in time.
He has done 0 scumhunting at all this day other than making "probing" questions to players like Chezinu or BH. He wasn't part of any discussion, and worst of all didn't seem to care. He didn't even seem to care to defend himself against my points.
Again, the main point is that he doesn't care about the game and is not contributing.
Again, in Aperture 2 or even Can't Believe, he was part of every discussion and would have never acted like he's doing here at all.
Yeah I think he should be today's lynch. But fuck I won't be around here for that, so I hope you guys can make something out of this D1.
I wouldn't mind Adam or Mementos lynched. Adam hasn't done anything other than park his vote on Mementos. He posted good reasons to pressure him but not to base a whole lynch vote on him and disappear. Again taking into account him only "pressuring" BKE earlier and nothing else. He isn't pushing Mementos nor doing anything else productive.
Mementos made a "bad" vote on Xfire and doesn't seem to care to be part of any other discussion or scumhunting. He hasn't even moved his vote from Xfire or talked about Adam or Keirathi or any of those guys (that I remember).
I'm still not sure about BKE, since I can't really see a scum "noob" BKE make such an aggressive "joke" vote very early into the game. I'd prefer him not being lynched today but fuck it I'm not sure fuck running out of time.
Also we can lynch that Django guy as well he's not doing anything at all and fucking parked his vote on Chezinu.
Well fuck I gotta go.
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Keirathi
Okay so some preface, I think Keirathi has been slipping through this game without being mentioned too much. So I decided to look at his filter and noticed some scummy things. Lets go through it.
Part I: Spreading Accusations
All game, Keirethi has been spreading accusations very very subtly while never going deeper into them, he has yet to give a strong opinion that he thinks would be good for a lynch. Overall, hes looking active while not doing anything to push a scum lynch. His play seems to represent someone that doesn't care who gets lynched at all. Lets look at a couple examples of this:
On November 01 2012 03:38 Keirathi wrote:
'Kay, so how is my question to Chezinu unimportant? Looks to me like he wanted all of our blues to claim. Maybe its just me, having never played with Chezinu, but that was a pretty anti-town plan.
Now, I did comment on the BKE thing. On its own, its not particularly scummy. Particularly, though, the fact that he hasn't done any kind of early pressure vote in any of his last 7 town games is a bit weird. Still, even then I only think its minorly scummy and would never be enough to make me vote him.
His questions at chezinu seem to hint that he thinks what he is doing is scummy and pushing scum agenda, yet he just calls him ut on an anti town plan and never follows up.
He says on its own its not scummy, than hints that his meta doesn't match so its a bit "weird". Never commits completely to his opinion on thinking hes scummy, but ends with scummy but not enough to vote him. Gives him an out if he flips red, that he didn't defend him he just couldnt make up his mind.
On November 01 2012 14:00 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:13 Mementoss wrote:
Nooooo chezinu ninjad me good thing I checked, I cant do the alphabet very well I have to say it completely out all the time lol. Oh, I agree with that fact that purposely fucking up is scummy because it gives you a free pass not to post, however, BKE seemed to be not understanding the rules at first, and the second time the posts were 3 min apart so its possible for ninja post. Poop, just to clarify this doesn't excuse his ridiuclous joke vote/call out on a "scum slip", it seemed like a desperate attempt to put fault on someone, but he fucked up with the rules. Qonsequently BKE, so far is the only player that stands out to me as somewhat scummy.
Reading chezinus last post, I still don't agree with the mass claim idea. Sit will still end up with everyone claiming audience memebers. Tangerine, chezinu, why do you feeld it was nessecary to give the player list :S ? Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 06:08 Mementoss wrote:On October 31 2012 11:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Love to. My reason is that at this point in the thread he is the scummiest. "No way," you say, "he hasn't posted yet!" Often, that is reason enough. Proof of his scumminess is that he is a general liability.
Quack is the sound ducks make. Really though I'm gonna change my vote to Adam there's no way that post is town. Seriously if he was reforming posts he'd reform his post into that post instead of making a complaining post. Trying to get cred when he deserves none. Untie! Going to gym, fuck the rules. Only got 5 minutes but would like to comment on a few things.
The above is your case against Adam right? I don't consider it the strongest case, as you above seem pretty confident in it, but the fact that he hasn't been back to contribute is pretty un easing. leaning scummy on him right now. I half agree to what you say about crossfire too blazinghand. His posts were unreadable thats for sure. I had to re-read several paragraphs 3 times before I even understood what the point was, and then it didn't even deliverable the point well -_-. This is more likely xfire posting as town because he was being ridiculous, but I also think there is a possibility he started posting these long unreadable fluffy statements, so that maybe someone else would follow his ridiculous posting style and muck up the town completely. Thats scum intereference. Also, he actually looks to the non-reader, that he is contributing more than most, when really, hes more interested in literary skills and looking town, than actually finding scum. ATM I would be happy to vote either Xfire or BKE, (which I stated earlier why I thought his fake joke stuff seemed scummy, while his purposely?? getting restrictions wasn't liekly scummy), could go for Adam too, but I would rather wait for him to come into the thread again before doing that. Gunna lay down a vote Xfire atm. Need to re-read the thread and consider all the options, I have been either asleep or at work for this whole thread thus far. ##Vote Crossfire Xtremely weird change of opinion, there. You go from saying its scummy to blatantly not follow the alphabet rules, to doing it yourself without any indication why you suddenly don't care anymore. Zero sense does that make.
Again says its weird, not scummy. Just says it makes zero sense. Keirathi has zero desire to get a lynch going today, and he is afraid to commit. Hes leaving himself many avenues open for later when he decides to vote.
On November 02 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 06:55 Blazinghand wrote:gonzaw-- I'm willing to buy that you did in fact read my post, just not very carefully. On November 01 2012 01:22 Blazinghand wrote:
The game is fine and all, and if you want to banter and go back and forth, do it. But the terrible lobstrosity of a post that crossfire puked into the thread is the kind of thing that doesn't help. There are times to break the rules. In a way, chezinu knows this better than anyone here, but hes too busy being chezinu to lead town.
breaking the rules is not a scum move, any more than simply not posting for an hour is a scum move. tons of people have 1+ hour gaps in between their craptacularly bad alphabetical posts-- you should just make decent, good posts instead if you're not in the middle of a conversation. I don't know how this seems to be dogmatically in favor of using the 1-hour wait method at all times or the rhyming method at all times. You should read my posts more clearly and think a bit harder about the game. Part of the reason I'm on your ass is that you're not playing like you normally do. This focus from you, and the lack of serious pressure on multiple targets, that's not like you. The gonzaw I know, when he plays town, has fullisades of questions for everyone. Why just this one Keirathi case? Where's your usual constant interrogation and probing of everyone in the town? I remember your posts as being kinda annoying and having formatting issues, and maybe being unfocused, but also being unrelenting in their pressure on multiple targets. What gives? Forgive me for not commenting on this sooner sooner, but I just now had the available time to do the research. Go back and look at Aperture 2. He literally made a case/accusation against EVERY SINGLE PLAYER day 1. Its just such a huge disconnect from "everyone is scummy, lets question/accuse them!" to "well, this one guy is kinda scummy because he hasn't posted as much as I expect him to". Just my opinion, but this doesn't really fit the town gonzaw that I remember either.
Again spreading some suspicion on gonzaw. Not saying hes scummy per sae but saying his meta doesn't fit aperature 2. And ALSO he doesn't mention that gonzaw was traitor in aperture 2, and he won with scum, so this meta doesn't even make sense. He doesn't follow up with in game evidence or even ask gonzaw to clarify anything. This brings me to my next point.
Part II - Doesn't fit the meta
Every game I have played with Keirathi he has been very active and has been a major part in pushing discussion. Even if hes not scumhunting hes pushing discussion in strategic ways. This game has been the very opposite. He is a commentator, active, without pushing discussion to actually find scum. That is all I have to say on this, because meta should just be a supportable part not the main part of a case.
Part III - Active Lurker
Keirathi has been actually quite active in this game at many times, however he has only put down a few lines every time he has been here, and choses not to discuss the current parts of the thread. He timeline seems to sprinkle at many times in the thread, indicating he is chosing not to contribute in his normal town manner, or he doesn't overly care about finding scum. Just to separate himself from the major lurkers in this game.
He also has been excessively lazy this game and making excuses.
On October 31 2012 14:02 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 13:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Perhaps click on his profile and check for yourself?
Quite simple really.
Red he has never been.
Sure, I could have checked myself, but you already did the research  Totally easier to just ask you to share.
On October 31 2012 13:33 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 12:44 Crossfire99 wrote:Gosh, what have we here? On October 31 2012 12:22 Keirathi wrote:
'Sup, everyone. Time to get rid of those pesky musicians. How have you not posted on what has happened so far? I seem to remember the talkative little townie in Aperature that wasn't afraid to comment on anything. Keirathi was enjoying some Diablo 3 with a buddy. Looking back over the posts since I chimed it, it doesn't look like theres really a whole lot to comment on. Maybe its just me, but while this posting restriction is very entertaining, its quite hard to say exactly what you mean.
He is apathetic. He knows better than this, there is never gunna be anyting to comment on unless you push the discussion, which keirathi has not beeen trying to do like his normal town self. Making an excuse to blame the mechanics for not posting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Keirathi
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Other stuff:
Alright so Im still not sure on crossfire, but I think there are more likely places to catch scum than him so im taking my vote off him. I can see what hes doing from both alignments, so I shouldn't make a solid choice on only that. His reaction didn't really lead me any further with more of an opinion on him.
Probably 2nd scummiest player imo is BKE, I agree with SnB on his thoughts on him.
Dingaling, is also an option but it would be strictly policy lynch at this point. I think he is more likely unactive than lurking.
When is deadline? 10 hours? We need to somewhat start consolidating or discussing your straight up two best scum reads asaply.
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@Mementoss: Not going to quote your post point by point, but I'll just give some comments.
Part 1)
I'm not spreading accusations subtly. When I'm asking a question to something like your unexplained change in opinion, or Chezinu calling for a mass blue claim, its because I find them scummy. The point is to get a response to judge if the response is genuine. Everyone occasionally says things that can be taken as scummy, even as town. The key isn't to jump on hte mistake, its to ask why the mistake happened and try to figure out if they're lying.
I never pushed more on the Chezinu thing because I don't think Chezinu is going to get lynched today for calling for a mass blue claim. Apparently "It's Chezinu, just ignore him" from other players is a good enough defense. Whatever.
About BKE: it doesn't give me an out if he flips red. I quite clearly said I don't think a minorly scummy thing is enough for ME to vote for him. If he flips red, I fulyl expect to get pressured for that. I take full responsibility for everything I say.
Part 2)
*EVERY* game you've played with me? So...just Liquid City and Aperture 2? Two games that were going on at the exact same time and I had vastly different playstyles and time commitments. Hell, the ONLY thing I did in LC on day 1 was yell at kush a bunch, and throw some weak arguments onto kingjames, then afk for 24+ hours.
Part 3)
I wouldn't say I'm necessarily active lurking. I've just only been commenting on things that I feel are worth commenting on. And, maybe its an "excuse" but TL was down for half of the day yesterday for me. So meh, whatever.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 02:13 Keirathi wrote:
@Mementoss: Not going to quote your post point by point, but I'll just give some comments.
Part 1)
I'm not spreading accusations subtly. When I'm asking a question to something like your unexplained change in opinion, or Chezinu calling for a mass blue claim, its because I find them scummy. The point is to get a response to judge if the response is genuine. Everyone occasionally says things that can be taken as scummy, even as town. The key isn't to jump on hte mistake, its to ask why the mistake happened and try to figure out if they're lying.
I never pushed more on the Chezinu thing because I don't think Chezinu is going to get lynched today for calling for a mass blue claim. Apparently "It's Chezinu, just ignore him" from other players is a good enough defense. Whatever.
About BKE: it doesn't give me an out if he flips red. I quite clearly said I don't think a minorly scummy thing is enough for ME to vote for him. If he flips red, I fulyl expect to get pressured for that. I take full responsibility for everything I say.
Part 2)
*EVERY* game you've played with me? So...just Liquid City and Aperture 2? Two games that were going on at the exact same time and I had vastly different playstyles and time commitments. Hell, the ONLY thing I did in LC on day 1 was yell at kush a bunch, and throw some weak arguments onto kingjames, then afk for 24+ hours.
Part 3)
I wouldn't say I'm necessarily active lurking. I've just only been commenting on things that I feel are worth commenting on. And, maybe its an "excuse" but TL was down for half of the day yesterday for me. So meh, whatever.
There are now two votes in the voting thread that were not appropriately unvoted. Unless that was intentional, by which I mean scummy. Votes from BKE and Mementoss to be specific.
Why, BKE, are you voting me? X-amine my filter and demonstrate why I'm scummy, or get your shit together. You're definitely not scumhunting in the slightest, just CONTINUOUSLY defending yourself for what stemmed from literally your first post in the game. Zany OMGUS against me doesn't help either as I still think you're scum and would prefer you to do something helpful in the event that you are not.
As for MMT, my read is null, and my 2nd choice to vote right now would be Adam or Keir, not quite sure yet but it doesn't matter. BKE is still number 1, I've read the case against Keir and I agree overall that he looks scummy, but I feel more certain on BKE right now.
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On November 02 2012 01:52 Mementoss wrote: Keirathi Okay so some preface, I think Keirathi has been slipping through this game without being mentioned too much. So I decided to look at his filter and noticed some scummy things. Lets go through it. Part I: Spreading AccusationsAll game, Keirethi has been spreading accusations very very subtly while never going deeper into them, he has yet to give a strong opinion that he thinks would be good for a lynch. Overall, hes looking active while not doing anything to push a scum lynch. His play seems to represent someone that doesn't care who gets lynched at all. Lets look at a couple examples of this: Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 03:38 Keirathi wrote:
'Kay, so how is my question to Chezinu unimportant? Looks to me like he wanted all of our blues to claim. Maybe its just me, having never played with Chezinu, but that was a pretty anti-town plan.
Now, I did comment on the BKE thing. On its own, its not particularly scummy. Particularly, though, the fact that he hasn't done any kind of early pressure vote in any of his last 7 town games is a bit weird. Still, even then I only think its minorly scummy and would never be enough to make me vote him. His questions at chezinu seem to hint that he thinks what he is doing is scummy and pushing scum agenda, yet he just calls him ut on an anti town plan and never follows up. He says on its own its not scummy, than hints that his meta doesn't match so its a bit "weird". Never commits completely to his opinion on thinking hes scummy, but ends with scummy but not enough to vote him. Gives him an out if he flips red, that he didn't defend him he just couldnt make up his mind. Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 14:00 Keirathi wrote:On October 31 2012 23:13 Mementoss wrote:
Nooooo chezinu ninjad me good thing I checked, I cant do the alphabet very well I have to say it completely out all the time lol. Oh, I agree with that fact that purposely fucking up is scummy because it gives you a free pass not to post, however, BKE seemed to be not understanding the rules at first, and the second time the posts were 3 min apart so its possible for ninja post. Poop, just to clarify this doesn't excuse his ridiuclous joke vote/call out on a "scum slip", it seemed like a desperate attempt to put fault on someone, but he fucked up with the rules. Qonsequently BKE, so far is the only player that stands out to me as somewhat scummy.
Reading chezinus last post, I still don't agree with the mass claim idea. Sit will still end up with everyone claiming audience memebers. Tangerine, chezinu, why do you feeld it was nessecary to give the player list :S ? On November 01 2012 06:08 Mementoss wrote:On October 31 2012 11:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Love to. My reason is that at this point in the thread he is the scummiest. "No way," you say, "he hasn't posted yet!" Often, that is reason enough. Proof of his scumminess is that he is a general liability.
Quack is the sound ducks make. Really though I'm gonna change my vote to Adam there's no way that post is town. Seriously if he was reforming posts he'd reform his post into that post instead of making a complaining post. Trying to get cred when he deserves none. Untie! Going to gym, fuck the rules. Only got 5 minutes but would like to comment on a few things.
The above is your case against Adam right? I don't consider it the strongest case, as you above seem pretty confident in it, but the fact that he hasn't been back to contribute is pretty un easing. leaning scummy on him right now. I half agree to what you say about crossfire too blazinghand. His posts were unreadable thats for sure. I had to re-read several paragraphs 3 times before I even understood what the point was, and then it didn't even deliverable the point well -_-. This is more likely xfire posting as town because he was being ridiculous, but I also think there is a possibility he started posting these long unreadable fluffy statements, so that maybe someone else would follow his ridiculous posting style and muck up the town completely. Thats scum intereference. Also, he actually looks to the non-reader, that he is contributing more than most, when really, hes more interested in literary skills and looking town, than actually finding scum. ATM I would be happy to vote either Xfire or BKE, (which I stated earlier why I thought his fake joke stuff seemed scummy, while his purposely?? getting restrictions wasn't liekly scummy), could go for Adam too, but I would rather wait for him to come into the thread again before doing that. Gunna lay down a vote Xfire atm. Need to re-read the thread and consider all the options, I have been either asleep or at work for this whole thread thus far. ##Vote Crossfire Xtremely weird change of opinion, there. You go from saying its scummy to blatantly not follow the alphabet rules, to doing it yourself without any indication why you suddenly don't care anymore. Zero sense does that make. Again says its weird, not scummy. Just says it makes zero sense. Keirathi has zero desire to get a lynch going today, and he is afraid to commit. Hes leaving himself many avenues open for later when he decides to vote. Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:On November 01 2012 06:55 Blazinghand wrote:gonzaw-- I'm willing to buy that you did in fact read my post, just not very carefully. On November 01 2012 01:22 Blazinghand wrote:
The game is fine and all, and if you want to banter and go back and forth, do it. But the terrible lobstrosity of a post that crossfire puked into the thread is the kind of thing that doesn't help. There are times to break the rules. In a way, chezinu knows this better than anyone here, but hes too busy being chezinu to lead town.
breaking the rules is not a scum move, any more than simply not posting for an hour is a scum move. tons of people have 1+ hour gaps in between their craptacularly bad alphabetical posts-- you should just make decent, good posts instead if you're not in the middle of a conversation. I don't know how this seems to be dogmatically in favor of using the 1-hour wait method at all times or the rhyming method at all times. You should read my posts more clearly and think a bit harder about the game. Part of the reason I'm on your ass is that you're not playing like you normally do. This focus from you, and the lack of serious pressure on multiple targets, that's not like you. The gonzaw I know, when he plays town, has fullisades of questions for everyone. Why just this one Keirathi case? Where's your usual constant interrogation and probing of everyone in the town? I remember your posts as being kinda annoying and having formatting issues, and maybe being unfocused, but also being unrelenting in their pressure on multiple targets. What gives? Forgive me for not commenting on this sooner sooner, but I just now had the available time to do the research. Go back and look at Aperture 2. He literally made a case/accusation against EVERY SINGLE PLAYER day 1. Its just such a huge disconnect from "everyone is scummy, lets question/accuse them!" to "well, this one guy is kinda scummy because he hasn't posted as much as I expect him to". Just my opinion, but this doesn't really fit the town gonzaw that I remember either. Again spreading some suspicion on gonzaw. Not saying hes scummy per sae but saying his meta doesn't fit aperature 2. And ALSO he doesn't mention that gonzaw was traitor in aperture 2, and he won with scum, so this meta doesn't even make sense. He doesn't follow up with in game evidence or even ask gonzaw to clarify anything. This brings me to my next point. Part II - Doesn't fit the metaEvery game I have played with Keirathi he has been very active and has been a major part in pushing discussion. Even if hes not scumhunting hes pushing discussion in strategic ways. This game has been the very opposite. He is a commentator, active, without pushing discussion to actually find scum. That is all I have to say on this, because meta should just be a supportable part not the main part of a case. Part III - Active LurkerKeirathi has been actually quite active in this game at many times, however he has only put down a few lines every time he has been here, and choses not to discuss the current parts of the thread. He timeline seems to sprinkle at many times in the thread, indicating he is chosing not to contribute in his normal town manner, or he doesn't overly care about finding scum. Just to separate himself from the major lurkers in this game. He also has been excessively lazy this game and making excuses. Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 14:02 Keirathi wrote:On October 31 2012 13:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Perhaps click on his profile and check for yourself?
Quite simple really.
Red he has never been.
Sure, I could have checked myself, but you already did the research Totally easier to just ask you to share. Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 13:33 Keirathi wrote:On October 31 2012 12:44 Crossfire99 wrote:Gosh, what have we here? On October 31 2012 12:22 Keirathi wrote:
'Sup, everyone. Time to get rid of those pesky musicians. How have you not posted on what has happened so far? I seem to remember the talkative little townie in Aperature that wasn't afraid to comment on anything. Keirathi was enjoying some Diablo 3 with a buddy. Looking back over the posts since I chimed it, it doesn't look like theres really a whole lot to comment on. Maybe its just me, but while this posting restriction is very entertaining, its quite hard to say exactly what you mean. He is apathetic. He knows better than this, there is never gunna be anyting to comment on unless you push the discussion, which keirathi has not beeen trying to do like his normal town self. Making an excuse to blame the mechanics for not posting. ##Unvote
##Vote: Keirathi[-] Other stuff: Alright so Im still not sure on crossfire, but I think there are more likely places to catch scum than him so im taking my vote off him. I can see what hes doing from both alignments, so I shouldn't make a solid choice on only that. His reaction didn't really lead me any further with more of an opinion on him. Probably 2nd scummiest player imo is BKE, I agree with SnB on his thoughts on him. Dingaling, is also an option but it would be strictly policy lynch at this point. I think he is more likely unactive than lurking. When is deadline? 10 hours? We need to somewhat start consolidating or discussing your straight up two best scum reads asaply.
Bottom part is so scummy, because you basically say your vote for Keir isn't pushed by your case but by the lack of Xfire's scummness. Cause of this, it shows me that you have no confidence in this case about Keir, because you had to justify a vote change. Dingaling shouldn't even be included in this post as you already have two scum reads, why would you support a policy lynch when you have two scum?
Eyeing one of Hopeless posts, I noticed I hadn't unvoted and voted is that what you guys are saying Im am being hypocritical on?
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On November 02 2012 03:54 Hopeless1der wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 02:13 Keirathi wrote:
@Mementoss: Not going to quote your post point by point, but I'll just give some comments.
Part 1)
I'm not spreading accusations subtly. When I'm asking a question to something like your unexplained change in opinion, or Chezinu calling for a mass blue claim, its because I find them scummy. The point is to get a response to judge if the response is genuine. Everyone occasionally says things that can be taken as scummy, even as town. The key isn't to jump on hte mistake, its to ask why the mistake happened and try to figure out if they're lying.
I never pushed more on the Chezinu thing because I don't think Chezinu is going to get lynched today for calling for a mass blue claim. Apparently "It's Chezinu, just ignore him" from other players is a good enough defense. Whatever.
About BKE: it doesn't give me an out if he flips red. I quite clearly said I don't think a minorly scummy thing is enough for ME to vote for him. If he flips red, I fulyl expect to get pressured for that. I take full responsibility for everything I say.
Part 2)
*EVERY* game you've played with me? So...just Liquid City and Aperture 2? Two games that were going on at the exact same time and I had vastly different playstyles and time commitments. Hell, the ONLY thing I did in LC on day 1 was yell at kush a bunch, and throw some weak arguments onto kingjames, then afk for 24+ hours.
Part 3)
I wouldn't say I'm necessarily active lurking. I've just only been commenting on things that I feel are worth commenting on. And, maybe its an "excuse" but TL was down for half of the day yesterday for me. So meh, whatever. There are now two votes in the voting thread that were not appropriately unvoted. Unless that was intentional, by which I mean scummy. Votes from BKE and Mementoss to be specific. Why, BKE, are you voting me? X-amine my filter and demonstrate why I'm scummy, or get your shit together. You're definitely not scumhunting in the slightest, just CONTINUOUSLY defending yourself for what stemmed from literally your first post in the game. Zany OMGUS against me doesn't help either as I still think you're scum and would prefer you to do something helpful in the event that you are not. As for MMT, my read is null, and my 2nd choice to vote right now would be Adam or Keir, not quite sure yet but it doesn't matter. BKE is still number 1, I've read the case against Keir and I agree overall that he looks scummy, but I feel more certain on BKE right now.
For one thing, you say that my filter is full of OMGUS, but look at your filter which consists of tunneling me, a lurker call out, and a bunch of whining about the rules. Good god, that's some amazing scumhunting there.
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Hey, I already caught scum:
On November 01 2012 08:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Everyone, I think that he is trying to create something out of nothing. For goodness sake, this twisting of words must stop.
##Unvote
##Vote: Hopeless1der
On November 01 2012 10:24 BroodKingEXE wrote:
To Hopeless, TL.net went down again, so I wasn't to post in the voting thread.
I even replied right after you said you couldn't post in the voting thread, quoting the voting thread with your vote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 10:25 Hopeless1der wrote:u srs?
Jerking the thread around isn't a good idea. Keeping things focused, like my scumread on you, is a good idea to me.
Look at BKE's filter and show me where he hunts scum
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+ Show Spoiler [may have had forgotten to click post b…] +
now I have to post a whole bunch of sentences. Or else I could change my post. Post-changing is lame however. Querelously, therefore, I sit down to type this spoiler. Really, there's nothing interesting in here. Sitting in this chair. Typing things that aren't important. Ummm, what to say next... Very well, I will continue. Waiting to get to the start of the alphabet, almost there... Xylophony! Yeah, that's the art of playing the xylophone! Zounds, I'm at the end of the alphabet, only two more sentences to go! Almost there! BLAMMO!
CHEZINU ARE YOU AROUND?!!?!?
During the course of the games of yours I've played and observed, I don't think I've seen a time where asking you rational questions has actually helped, but in case I'm wrong or in case there's a first time for everything, let's give you a range of options of things you can talk rationally about.
Enumerated herein are things that I would really like you to talk more about so I can discern your alignment:
First, you've pretty much dropped your role claim idea without ever explaining why it was a good idea beyond listing all the players. Grant for the sake of argument that I'm stupid, explain to me why that's a good idea. Huh, when I look at your filter this is pretty much the only thing I see you talking about that's neither fluff nor the minigame.
2: I see you have voted for Mementoss; I kind of despair of getting you to explain yourself, since you were already asked directly once and responded only "I don't know," but for the sake of completeness I will herein ask you once again to actually explain that ninja vote please.
Jeepers, you probably won't respond to either of those questions so here are some serious questions phrased in a way that might be more likely to garner a response from you:
Kay, take a look at BKE. Let me know the ideal job for him as a menial domestic employee in Chezinu's House.
Maybe talk a little bit about your spirit animal. Now suppose it has to fight the spirit animal of anyone in this game, whose spirit animal would your spirit animal fight and why?
One last question - if you had to choose a game from Whose Line is it Anyway for everyone to play, what would it be and how would it help the House of Chezinu achieve victory in its endeavors?
Please, if you refuse to answer any of these questions, just say more things - it seems like you're around but your filter is tiny and purposely vague and impossible to get a good impression of whether you're town or not.
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On November 02 2012 04:31 Hopeless1der wrote:Hey, I already caught scum: Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 08:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Everyone, I think that he is trying to create something out of nothing. For goodness sake, this twisting of words must stop.
##Unvote
##Vote: Hopeless1der Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 10:24 BroodKingEXE wrote:
To Hopeless, TL.net went down again, so I wasn't to post in the voting thread. I even replied right after you said you couldn't post in the voting thread, quoting the voting thread with your vote: + Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 10:25 Hopeless1der wrote:u srs? , and thought it was pretty self-evident, but clearly I needed to spell things out. Jerking the thread around isn't a good idea. Keeping things focused, like my scumread on you, is a good idea to me.
Look at BKE's filter and show me where he hunts scum
Quacks, TL.net had gone down so I thought when you said this + Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 09:26 Hopeless1der wrote:
Guess what, BKE? Have you verified you voted correctly? I dont think you have. Just when I thought you were being straight and true! Keep in mind, I wasn't the only one who thought what you did was scummy, I was just the one who put a vote behind my opinion of your posting. Looks like an OMGUS to me, and that's actually the only reason I see behind your vote. Maybe there's a little more you'd like to add?
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So, the timestamps, all of which are in the post you quoted, are bullshit then?
TL's power outage occurred between 08:51-08:52 KST and your vote was "suspended" until power was restored? Ur post timing and your explanation just do not match up right now. Verifying the timing of the outage will need to wait until later because Twitter is blocked at work for me.
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EPT
