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On September 19 2012 19:46 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 15:52 Stutters695 wrote:I'm really not sure about Kush. He's hard to read. He's active however so I'd like to see him contribute more and get a better read on him. One major question for him: On September 18 2012 20:27 kushm4sta wrote:
@stutters I want to improve my play because last game I sucked quite hard. anyone can attest to that lol. I also don't want to be the best town because getting nk sucks imo. I like being around for the end of the game. I'm just being honest. but thanks for accusing me because it makes it less likely that ill be nk, since scum usually kill the towniest person.
what I said about flame wars.. that is what I did in the last two previous games. for instance drazak accused me really hard and I basically just called him a bad player again and again. I am trying to avoid that this game though.
I really hate waking up to people fosing me...feels bad Why were you honest about this? Telling everyone you're going to avoid getting night-killed so you can maintain a pointless streak serves no purpose from a town perspective. All it does is provide excuses for you for any potential bad play and if you're town waste time on unnecessary discussion. You also say: On September 19 2012 11:46 kushm4sta wrote:
Killingtime is missing. Seems pretty convenient that he goes missing as soon as the heat is off him. But for now there are more important matters to discuss since I doubt a banwagon on killing is happening.
I'm not going to vote yet. Day 1 scum reads are pretty bad. They are necessary, definitely, but it seems like they are just wrong more often than not. This leads me to the unpopular topic:
How do people feel about lynching a lurker. I would much rather lynch a lurker day 1 than let them sit there with his automatic null read forever. And who would we lynch instead? A possible active townie who is just playing bad?
Think about this, we have serious lurkers in CUBU and ATREIDES.
We have semi lurkers in REMEDY and STUTTERS.
How sure are you that Sharrant is mafia? Personally I'm not sure enough to vote for him over a lurker. He says he isn't sure enough to vote Sharrant over a lurker, but he's willing to vote debears. What makes you think he is a better scum lynch than removing a lurker or lynching Scharrant. bringing up the nk shit again....ok. i think its bad play to make yourself a nk target because you are worthless if you are this super strong townie d1, then get nk n1. I think thrawn is a good player but he definitely fell into this trap last game. he made himself a target and his death told us nothing. I only bring this up again to save stutters the task of reading through my filter. ok second question: why do I want to lynch debears over sharrant...I talk about this a lot. basically i see scum motivation in debears bad play but not in sharrants bad play. why am I willing to vote for debears over a lurker? honestly I would probably rather lynch a lurker over him, just because I think d1 reads I'm general are ass. We were voting for our biggest scumread, though, just to see what bandwagons were viable. also voting for a lurker at that point would have been stupid because we don't even know which lurker we would consolidate on. cubu is lurking even harder than last game.
I've read your filter. That isn't an acceptable answer. By intentionally avoiding NKs by playing scummier than you would you're adding doubt and uncertainty where there shouldn't be any. I still don't see a town motivation for saying this. Dropping it for now as there are bigger fish to fry today. Still suspicious.
On September 19 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote:
yeah stutters returns from afk in a pretty scummy fashion. afk for a while while I go to class.
Explain, what about my response is scummy or this is just you trying to fit your meta from your previous games by OMGUSing me?
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@stutters
Scummy by not talking about what is going on in the game at all.
This recent post... wtf you spend the entire time talking about what you say you shouldn't talk about.
Dropping it for now as there are bigger fish to fry today. Still suspicious.
Then why are you continuing to ride my ass instead of frying those fishes?
You really want me to talk more about the nk? Like seriously you are bringing up the nk shit again? Now?
Can you please fucking vote please??
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I'm about to post about why Killing or Cubu is a clearly better lynch than Sharrant, chill the fuck out.
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On September 20 2012 03:23 kushm4sta wrote:The lynch votes are amassing for sharrant. Lynching someone active d1 almost always results in lynching a townie! Can i present an alternative bandwagon for the people who think he's probably town: CUBU... He is winning the race for biggest lurker. At least if he is town we can lynch and not feel so bad if he flips green. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 20:25 Cubu wrote:
Oh and sorry for lurking, but i am really busy with assignments. I gotta write four 2k word essays by next week. So basically he is saying that he will continue to lurk throughout the whole game. Until next week is a long time. We have 3 options. 1 We lynch him now as a policy lynch. 2 We let him live and continue to argue lurker policy until we lynch him. 3 We ignore him and just rely on the 75% chance he is town. Our read of sharrant will get better. Our read of drazak will remain null. I'm unvoting debears but I still suspect him. Just that bandwagon isn't happening anymore and I would rather lynch a lurker anyway. ##unvote debears
##vote cubu
Why so obsessed with Cubu? Unless you are mafia and know he would be an easy town to get rid of quickly. You don't even seem to consider whether he is town or scum. Your only reason to lynch him is that he is lurking.
Also why would the town feel less badly about Cubu turning up green than sharrant? Everyone else seems to have a good indication that he is mafia. Are you trying to protect him?
Does any one else have an opinion on Kush's motives?
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If a lurker lynch is the only possible outcome then I prefer killing over cubu. For those of you that played in XXVI it's for the same reasons I wanted to lynch stutters instead of cubu. Yes I know they both ending up flipping green but I'd rather vote for the scummy looking lurker instead of the null read lurker. Killing's post count is a little higher than cubu's of course... but the fact that his post count is a little higher AND that he comes across as scummy makes him a better lurker lynch. If you wanna see cases against killing just go through my filter and ctrl+f "killing"
Cubu why did you sign up for this game when you can only make like 3 posts every 48 hours? Or.... are you mafia?
@Remedy:
The thing about kush's motives is that in the 2 games I played with him, his town meta in both games was to look scummy. Not intentionally of course but IMO he posts a lot of stuff without thinking about it. So while I do think there's been some scummy things he's said this game, because of his meta I'm going to overlook them until a little later (D2) into the game when I can actually look at the direct consequences of his actions.
I still think sharrant has said blatantly scummy things, and I've thought through possible "plans" he could've had and I don't see any that make sense so I think he's lying about that.
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On September 20 2012 02:14 Atreides- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 01:48 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
If we're going for a lurker lynch, I wouldn't go for Stutters. Cubu is a fucking mystery and shouldn't be allowed into any more maffia games. I'm also suspicious of Remedy and Ataheitalos. I haven't really looked into a possible lurker lynch yet, so take those opinions with a grain of salt.
I'm getting a deja vu from XXVI where we had a Stutters vs Cubu wagon. Both were town and d2 was basically just a restart of d1 with two fewer townies. I'm definitely not set only lynching a lurker aorn. Typo? I'm guessing that means me?
Yes. You've contributed with absolutely nothing productive when it comes to scum hunting. Your only kind of significant post is a defense of Sharrant.
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On September 20 2012 04:01 RemedySC wrote:
Also why would the town feel less badly about Cubu turning up green than sharrant? Everyone else seems to have a good indication that he is mafia. Are you trying to protect him?
Why would a green cubu lynch feel better than green sharrant lynch?
Because lurkers are bad for town.
Sharrant is very active and does a lot of scumhunting. That helps town.
Seems pretty self explanatory to me.
I said from the beginning that unless we have a really good scum read that we could agree on I think we should lynch a lurker.
For me sharrant is not a good scumread. His recent posts definitely have made him more scummy in my eyes. Certain stuff he just won't let go for some reason... like to let it go would admit to his guilt. Also all that talk about mods and not understanding the game. It's not clear to me what he didn't understand and what he was planning on doing in the first place.
However it just doesn't make sense to me that a first time forum mafia player rolling scum would put himself out like that
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Killing or any other lurker is a better lynch than Sharrant at this point for two main reasons (IMO):
1) Sharrant is active. If he is scum it will reveal itself over time, while if we go into lategame with a bunch of lurkers we're boned in lylo.
2)You guys are painting the SK idea as way too scummy imo. Look at Kush's early posts. Self-survival is usually indicative of a power-role or scum. If he's a blue he wouldn't have so obviously painted a target on himself. If he's scum it seems to reason he wouldn't paint such a big target on himself. Given the option between SK and VT, SK makes a hell of a lot more sense.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion but it makes sense and he's putting himself out there on that read and gives us even more of substance to hold him accountable for.
Looking at the lurkers:
Drazak: Would like to see some more from him before the lynch. Nowhere near the least active and he has at least thrown out questions. Wouldn't be our best lynch target imo.
KillingTime has been actively lurking. He has 11 posts during D1. He has only one post with any real content. This is similar to his town play in XXVI but his reads in this have all been agreeing with other people while in XXVI his reads were more based on his observations.
Really I'd like to see a lynch on Cubu.
Regardless of if Cubu is scum or town, Cubu needs to die. For anyone who didn't play in NMMXXVI check his filter there (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363923&user=153930). 9 posts before he was lynched on day 2. We let him live Day 1 with the hopes his play would improve and it didn't as VT. After we wasted a lynch on him D2 we put ourselves in mylo. We shouldn't let that happen again when we can easily avoid it. Our day 2 lynch candidate will be a much stronger one than our D1 if we're lynching someone active and Cubu has shown no intentions of actually playing.
##Vote Cubu
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EBWOP: Change Killing to Cubu at the top of that post. Before I started typing I felt Killing was the best lynch, but after checking Cubu/His filter it seemed pretty clear Cubu was completely anti-town with his lurking style.
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On September 19 2012 00:35 KillingTime wrote:
I don't understand the point of FoS'ing on day 1 - no-one has a huge list of strong scum reads and you can change your vote at any time. If you think someone is scum then you should vote for them, if you are not sure or looking to pressure than a vote is also a much better way to do that than a FOS which at best is just going to cause scum to play more carefully.
Useless fluff 100% trademark.
On September 19 2012 01:56 KillingTime wrote:
Thrawn - I don't think it is a major point, it is a short post - if someone thinks that FOS's are valuable day one, then please tell me why. I thought the discussions about Sonic's "survey" and Thrawns " lynch question" were dumb, which were the main things in the thread at that time.
I think the other things that are on this page are more worth discussing though:
I agree that Kush's statements about not wanting to die were dumb and anti-town. I haven't voted him yet though because a) I think the serial killer case, while I can follow the logic, is a huge overreach when we don't even know whether we have a serial killer. It would be equally plausible to argue that kush was trying to attract attention to himself with that kind of remark. b) Kush made a significant number of dumb comments at the start of XXVI and turned out to be town. That doesn't excuse these comments, but they are not enough on their own to make me think he is scum.
I like sonic's last post on Debears though - For now my feeling is that Debears is mafia trying to blend into the thread. Debears who do you think is scum?
For now:
##Vote:debears
Again useless fluff. Just bandwagoning my Debears case*. Extra useless points for the question to Debears. It might be designed to look like a good contribution while it's really not.
*I've had the feeling when making my Debears case that it seemed to be a retard magnet. A lot of people seemed to be jumping it for no good reasons, which made me kind of paranoid. I got extra paranoid when I realized my case wasn't very good.
On September 19 2012 15:07 KillingTime wrote:
Ok - well I think the best thing for me to do Is go through the questions drazak asked me last night:
Players I want to see more from - There are lots of players in this category:
1. RemedySC - Not much interesting in his posts, nothing scummy but nothing strong
2. Drazak - Again, he made fair points about me and I am answering his questions - he has said he will also try to post more today. If there is one thing that I learnt from XXVI it is that associational cases are bad though. So leave off this how is he connected to X&Y on D1.
3. Stutters
4.Cubu!!! - I am quite happy to policy lynch cubu every game I play with him if he is not posting more. Cubu post more or I will vote for you.
Two strongest town reads: (though town reads are kind of dubious atm, because strong mafia probably look like town now -d1 we are more trying to catch a weaker mafia I think)
1. Thrawn - I don't put much stock in the idea that him & Debears are necessarily linked in some way - but his posting has been strong all day
2. Sonic - Solid town posts, less high up for me though, just because I have the experience of playing with him in XXVI and know he is a strong player who fooled me for large parts of that game.
When I went to bed, I thought Sharrant was towny - he was following the same train of logic that I did and he was . Now I just don't know - others have totally fought with him on asking debears to roleclaim and that was a bad idea, I don't think he is a good d1 lynch, there is too much chance he flips bad town, but he is definitely a player I want to look at more closely as the game progresses
And the most important part - scum:
1.Debears - my scum read on him from yesterday has not changed that much, his hugely defensive posting since then is a bad, and I agree with Kush's attack on his last post. I sort of like that he is attacking rethos - but rethos is an easy target, a lurker who has only posted questions so far. I await to see what he has to say about Sharrant.
2.Atreidies - 3 posts, all bad , random setup speculation. You can pretty much sum up everything he has said so far as "I'm not convinced" - That is not at all scummy per se - but you need to combine that attitude with efforts to scumhunt yourself and contribute actively. Because he hasn't, it looks scummy to me.
"Players I want to see more from". The easiest way to fill a post and try to make it look useful is to simply state which posters haven't been active. Obviously it's not useful. Again it's the same old Debear read that he didn't contribute anything to. The town reads are just fluff. The only new valid point he brings up is about Atreides. I agree with him, but again, pointing out someone isn't posting isn't good scum hunting.
On September 19 2012 22:41 KillingTime wrote:I don't think "having assignments due" makes Cubu any less scummy. Last game we gave a pass D1/2 to weetee who had to get replaced and let Xatalos off the hook because he was at the army - they were still scum and that was a mistake. As far as "My" case (not really "my" case - but my vote) on Debears goes I still prefer him slightly over sharrant. see Debears as more scummy than sharrant because he led with stupid play and then tried to explain it away, whereas on my reading the Sharrant case seems more "bad towny" than a strong scum read, he started trying to help town and then made a dumb mistake. Show nested quote +
also why are so many people already voting sharron? His play is really stupid with the roleclaim call, but stupid play doesn't make you mafia. you think first time mafia would really be so confidently retarded like that?
Isn't sharron's roleclaim call as stupid as my defense of thrawn early on? You could make the same argument for me.
So for me it is kind of similar - but yours looks worse. That said, this game still has too many lurkers - I am not sure at the moment whether debears is strong enough to justify not shooting one of them, hopefully I won't need to make that decision because they will all come in with plenty of useful posts (fat chance).
I think thrawn covered this bad town vs scummy town. Makes little sense.
On September 20 2012 00:30 KillingTime wrote:
I am here at the moment (around for a half hour or so) - if you want to ask me anything then you can. Other than the fact I was away last night (and therefore "lurky" to you) - why else do you think I am scum?
This is probably his most scummy post. Note that he hasn't asked anyone a single decent question indicative of scum hunting, while wanting people to question him. That's a sign of him knowing there's no hunting out there for him, because he's the hunted. He wants to try to clear himself (scum thinking) instead of scum hunt (town thinking).
On September 20 2012 01:40 KillingTime wrote:
I'm going out to dinner. I will happily support a lurker lynch. Stutters or Cubu - both should know better from XXVI. Not commenting on Sharrant atm until I have thought about his new posts more.
Umm yeah, thanks for your input.
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if someone makes 2 posts but doesn't vote do they get modkilled?
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stutters: so your point about cubu is that no matter what he flips he is so anti-town he needs to be lynched? I can see that logic... especially since he hasn't even voted. (same for drazak- no vote yet) However I stand by my lurker policy of lynching the lurker with the largest amount of scummy content which is killing.
I still say that sharrant is scummy enough to override lurker policy
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On September 20 2012 04:37 Stutters695 wrote:
Killing or any other lurker is a better lynch than Sharrant at this point for two main reasons (IMO):
1) Sharrant is active. If he is scum it will reveal itself over time, while if we go into lategame with a bunch of lurkers we're boned in lylo.
2)You guys are painting the SK idea as way too scummy imo. Look at Kush's early posts. Self-survival is usually indicative of a power-role or scum. If he's a blue he wouldn't have so obviously painted a target on himself. If he's scum it seems to reason he wouldn't paint such a big target on himself. Given the option between SK and VT, SK makes a hell of a lot more sense.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion but it makes sense and he's putting himself out there on that read and gives us even more of substance to hold him accountable for.
Looking at the lurkers:
Drazak: Would like to see some more from him before the lynch. Nowhere near the least active and he has at least thrown out questions. Wouldn't be our best lynch target imo.
KillingTime has been actively lurking. He has 11 posts during D1. He has only one post with any real content. This is similar to his town play in XXVI but his reads in this have all been agreeing with other people while in XXVI his reads were more based on his observations.
Really I'd like to see a lynch on Cubu.
Regardless of if Cubu is scum or town, Cubu needs to die. For anyone who didn't play in NMMXXVI check his filter there (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363923&user=153930). 9 posts before he was lynched on day 2. We let him live Day 1 with the hopes his play would improve and it didn't as VT. After we wasted a lynch on him D2 we put ourselves in mylo. We shouldn't let that happen again when we can easily avoid it. Our day 2 lynch candidate will be a much stronger one than our D1 if we're lynching someone active and Cubu has shown no intentions of actually playing.
##Vote Cubu
Would reading my post on Killing make you reconsider? It's not a super strong case, but I agree with him not bringing up own reads, while in XXVI he did. The complete lack of scum hunting coupled with him trying to clear himself makes it look like he's feeling dirty and wants to wash himself clean (scum), rather than attacking others (town).
Anyway, I'm with you on Cubu. I've played with him in two games and over 90 hours he's contributed with NOTHING. If he's got an extra 90 hours in NMMXXVI without contributing that makes it even worse.
I'm still considering my voting options.
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EBWOP: And my 3 options are Sharrant, Cubu and Killing.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 20 2012 04:48 kushm4sta wrote:
if someone makes 2 posts but doesn't vote do they get modkilled?
I'd either give a warning or start looking for a replacement, depending on how I look at it.
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Fyi I'm giving my final vote in about an hour. Atm we're all over the place with the voting, but I'm leaning towards Sharrant unless we get some more discussion going.
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On September 20 2012 04:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:37 Stutters695 wrote:
Killing or any other lurker is a better lynch than Sharrant at this point for two main reasons (IMO):
1) Sharrant is active. If he is scum it will reveal itself over time, while if we go into lategame with a bunch of lurkers we're boned in lylo.
2)You guys are painting the SK idea as way too scummy imo. Look at Kush's early posts. Self-survival is usually indicative of a power-role or scum. If he's a blue he wouldn't have so obviously painted a target on himself. If he's scum it seems to reason he wouldn't paint such a big target on himself. Given the option between SK and VT, SK makes a hell of a lot more sense.
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion but it makes sense and he's putting himself out there on that read and gives us even more of substance to hold him accountable for.
Looking at the lurkers:
Drazak: Would like to see some more from him before the lynch. Nowhere near the least active and he has at least thrown out questions. Wouldn't be our best lynch target imo.
KillingTime has been actively lurking. He has 11 posts during D1. He has only one post with any real content. This is similar to his town play in XXVI but his reads in this have all been agreeing with other people while in XXVI his reads were more based on his observations.
Really I'd like to see a lynch on Cubu.
Regardless of if Cubu is scum or town, Cubu needs to die. For anyone who didn't play in NMMXXVI check his filter there (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363923&user=153930). 9 posts before he was lynched on day 2. We let him live Day 1 with the hopes his play would improve and it didn't as VT. After we wasted a lynch on him D2 we put ourselves in mylo. We shouldn't let that happen again when we can easily avoid it. Our day 2 lynch candidate will be a much stronger one than our D1 if we're lynching someone active and Cubu has shown no intentions of actually playing.
##Vote Cubu Would reading my post on Killing make you reconsider? It's not a super strong case, but I agree with him not bringing up own reads, while in XXVI he did. The complete lack of scum hunting coupled with him trying to clear himself makes it look like he's feeling dirty and wants to wash himself clean (scum), rather than attacking others (town). Anyway, I'm with you on Cubu. I've played with him in two games and over 90 hours he's contributed with NOTHING. If he's got an extra 90 hours in NMMXXVI without contributing that makes it even worse. I'm still considering my voting options.
Killing was my second possible lurker lynch for the reason you agreed with. Cubu is just toxic to have in the game if he isn't posting so he's my #1, Killing would be my other policy lynch today. I don't think Sharrant is scummy enough to justify a day 1 lynch on him today.
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EBWOP: So Cubu is my top choice, but I will support a Killing lynch over Sharrant unless someone makes a convincing case. I'm not sold on Thrawn's case on him.
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It seems like Cubu only has your vote and Killing has none. I'm not sure switching will make sense based on that and quite frankly, I'm not sure I think switching will make sense anyway. I'll post my final thoughts before voting and I might check back later on my phone if I feel that'll be necessary.
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EPT
