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On September 20 2012 00:52 thrawn2112 wrote:
fish are assholes. apparently worms are no longer a viable part of the fish diet. only managed to catch 1.
sharrant:
Please give me at least one possible example where "forcing" someone to roleclaim under threat of a lynch will end up being good. I don't see it.
Also, you keep talking about this crazy plan you have that you won't divulge to us..... we're just supposed to accept on faith that it's a good plan and therefore you're town?
kush you have been asked this several times by different people but I still don't like your explanation of why you prefer debears over sharrant. I think you said that both of their play is bad but that debears play is bad scum wheras sharrant is bad town. So what you're saying is that dickriding a player looks scummier than asking for roleclaims, voting for people you have no intentions of lynching, being obssesed with blue and sk roles, and saying "guys dont lynch me I have a secret plan"? I can see why people would think that debears is scummy but I can't see how they see him scummier than sharrant unless they're going off of half-baked association cases.
@Thrawn
You keep bringing up the blues in response to me, I don't know why. I mentioned Kush fitting the SK role with his style of play, because it was scummy but independently scummy. Blue roles came just because they were an off thing of what I was expecting, it's a possibility that anyone is a blue.
At this point I think I have you and debears pinned down pretty specifically to a role, and it's not mafia. If you're the role I think you are, you should be able to figure out what I am from my posts today.
Also, you misread that, I was displaying the situation from a mafia perspective, thus "going 1:1 with town is dumb". It's very good to do that from a town perspective.
@Kush
Yes, this is my first game of forum mafia. I'm used to playing with similar but different roles, so that's why my plan was so awful in this version of mafia.
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On September 20 2012 01:03 kushm4sta wrote:
@remedy. lurking is not just about post count. It's mostly about post quality. It's also about when you choose to show up.
If you read my posts before the game, I do give my work hours. 12 hour work days is pretty tiring, so I didn't stay up too long after I got off. I have four days off now, so it makes sense I'll be able to contribute more.
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Remedy postpone your suspicion of me until d2 please. Who of the possible lynches, including lurkers, do you want to lynch?
Also guys if we are going to have an choice to lynch a lurker, which one shall it be?
Cubu's filter is just enough to prevent modkill.
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@Thrawn
The mod never made mention of either of you, the question did not have anything to do with either of you. It was a question of mechanics which made both of you appear less scummy to me. Make of that what you will, I think you should be able to figure it out with what I was saying earlier.
@SDM
1. Werewolf, MafiaSC2, and just regular Mafia. All of those have had some form of independent killer. Werewolf having lonewolf/witch, Mafia SC2 having MM/Arson/SK, and regular mafia having SK as well.
This is not my first rodeo.
2. No, I haven't read through any of the games on this forum in detail. I've read through a number of games at mafiascum though.
3. At that point both of them had struck me as scummy players. Killing for going after easy reads, debears for parroting. Killing had made some mention of debears being mafia and went as far as to vote for him. I saw this as an issue that would end up being a distraction when it's two scummy players against each other, so I wanted to focus it on the one I found more scummy and see more of how thrawn and debears both reacted.
4. Yes, you are right about that, I was meaning when I posted to vote him. I had a slight town read on both of them before the fact that debears was just reposting what thrawn had written crept more into my mind. So I put in my vote, based on the fact that at that point they were both scummy to me, with debears being slightly ahead. I figured only one would be mafia, I could be wrong and it could be Killing that is. At this point, I am not interested in Thrawn or debears as a lynch until I see more of what they say. When I looked at what they said, I had an incorrect grasp of the roles, their abilities, and their possibilities in this game, looking at it with new information it strikes me as very possible that they are both town.
5. My read on him as SK was also always backed up by the fact that it could also always be explained by just poor townie play. I picked up on him as SK or "town that just blurts things out" because he was so afraid of NKs, and the few sort of slips he did have were not real mafia slips. They looked scummy to me, but not what I would expect from a mafia, rather what I've seen from other SKs. His last few posts have made me sure he's not mafia. THere's still a small chance he could be SK, but for now I view him as town until there's proof of an SK. To me the "please don't kill me"s seemed genuine enough that I didn't believe he was mafia, but the slips also pushed me in a scummy direction. Thus that was the only step that could take.
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Fuba's Fantastic Vote Count!!
kushm4sta (1) - Sharrant, RemedySC
debears (3) - KillingTime, Sharrant, kushm4sta, rethos
Sharrant (4) - Sonic Death Monkey, thrawn2112, debears, JacobStrangelove, JacobStrangelove
Stutters695 (1) - JacobStrangelove, Sharrant
Currently Sharrant is set to be lynched with 4 votes! 7 hours, 40 minutes remain in Day 1!
drazak, Stutters695, Atreides, and Cubu have yet to vote!
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On September 20 2012 01:20 Sharrant wrote:
2. No, I haven't read through any of the games on this forum in detail. I've read through a number of games at mafiascum though.
Have you used any reads from other games when playing this game? If so, how did you get this info?
On September 20 2012 01:20 Sharrant wrote:
When I looked at what they said, I had an incorrect grasp of the roles, their abilities, and their possibilities in this game, looking at it with new information it strikes me as very possible that they are both town.
How was your grasp of the roles was incorrect and how that have changed your view?
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On September 20 2012 00:16 Sharrant wrote:
And if that happened, you guys would auto lynch me and the guy who came in with the lurker vote. It'd be suicide. Killing one townie (even a blue) is not worth one mafia, let alone 2. KT definitely has been lurking, he only just made a few posts with no substance.
So if I'm mafia, my plan is akin to gamethrowing. I'd be killing two mafia to kill a single person that 3 other people agree is suspicious enough to warrant a vote. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. I'll gladly tell you after my plan fails or succeeds what it was. Hell, at this point it's almost worth dropping just because it's going to get me lynched at this pace.
To be fair, you're not exactly in the sense maknig industry yourself:
On September 19 2012 23:53 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning, everyone.
Yes, SDM, I like staying calm. It doesn't really help if I suddenly flip off the handles at being accused. I stay calm because I know I'm town, and I want to win. If you can't stay calm, and think cooly, you can't set traps for scum. I was happy that you voted for me, just because everyone in this game sits on their hands when it comes to voting, I said before, it's a tool not a weapon. I wasn't happy being under that much pressure right away, I'm still not happy about the amount of pressure I'm under. But it brought more activity and has made people use their votes more. I know I'm innocent, so I know I'll be fine.
I'm used to mafia games where I have more information about the set up of the game, and in those situations using a logical analysis makes for very easy wins.
Now here is where I run into a problem. We're 2 votes away from the point I set out to get debears to. I still want to force a claim on him, no matter how scummy you think that is, it just doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective. Nor an SK perspective. But I have a plan, and I am sticking to that plan. I won't say it's the best plan ever, in fact there's a huge chance that it fails.
Yes, I'm sorry, but your plan is about to fail miserably. Your stoic calmness is not something I'd expect from a townie trying to save his ass. At this it should be apparent you getting lynched is a very real possibility. A townie wouldn't say: "I know I'm innocent, so I know I'll be fine". There's not much pointing in that direction right now.
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I'm going out to dinner. I will happily support a lurker lynch. Stutters or Cubu - both should know better from XXVI. Not commenting on Sharrant atm until I have thought about his new posts more.
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Btw, I think the significance of Sharrant's claim that he wanted to force a claim is being overstated. What he's saying is he wanted a red to claim blue (or green). Not that he wanted a blue to claim blue. It's a long shot and I'm not saying it's a great strat, but starring blindly on one small piece of the puzzle can easily result in a mindless lynch.
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kush debears thrawn killingtime stutters remedy
What do all these people have in common? They are people that sharrant has voted for or said he wants to lynch.
Kush: He votes for kush and during the time that vote was in place sharrant thought he was either On September 19 2012 03:14 Sharrant wrote:(SK, possibly blue or self important green)
Debears: Votes for debears because On September 19 2012 05:07 Sharrant wrote:
I do however think that it will be a distraction until it is resolved............ I'm suspicious enough of him I'd like to get to the point where we can force a claim.
Thrawn: After voting for debears in order to force roleclaims and such I question his debears vote and he responds with On September 19 2012 05:58 Sharrant wrote:
Voting for him did not mean I was ready to lynch him, as it stands I'd now be ready to lynch both of you. Maybe I'm wrong and you and debears aren't mafia, but that "ridiculous vote" just got a pretty big scum slip in my eyes from you.
Killing: Then he gives reasons why he'd be okay with voting for killing and also says that will nullify his earlier case on me/debears. To me that looks like he's switching to another player while trying to provide an out for himself from his earlier case: On September 19 2012 12:15 Sharrant wrote:
In particular, I think there's one candidate that would clear up most of this. Most of the reason for me voting for debears in the first place was because of KillingTime. .............So it goes on a few ifs, but the lurker that I'm most comfortable going after in this situation is KillingTime. If we lynch him, and if he flips mafia, that's the end of any case of mine against debears and Thrawn.
Stutters and Remedy: Ok once again it looks like he's trying to provide an out for himself from an earlier vote. He doesn't want to vote for debears anymore because he pm'd a mod and got information that somehow influenced his reads: On September 20 2012 00:54 Sharrant wrote: I wasn't playing with full knowledge of the situation. You and Thrawn both stand a much better chance of being town in my eyes than you did 5 minutes ago.
...........................
So, I'm going with the lurkers now. Remedy, that vote randomly popping up on Kush is pretty suspicious to me, but I'm still more suspicious of stutters. So that's where my vote is going for now, but depending on Stutters next post, it could end up on Remedy very easily.
So first his vote is on kush while he thinks that kush is sk or a blue or a self-important green. Then he votes for debears in order to solve a killing/debears issue (which I'm not clear on) and in order to force debears to roleclaim. Then in OMGUS style he says he would be fine with lynching me because of how I called him out on his debears vote. Next he says he is ok with voting for killing because of issues with his debears vote. Then he votes for stutters and says he could "easily" vote for remedy because of a pm exchange between him and a mod that made him think debears was less scummy. All the votes look similar to me.... they look like votes not based on scumhunting, but votes using any reason possible to vote while providing easy outs for himself when he later changes him reads/votes.
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If we're going for a lurker lynch, I wouldn't go for Stutters. Cubu is a fucking mystery and shouldn't be allowed into any more maffia games. I'm also suspicious of Remedy and Ataheitalos. I haven't really looked into a possible lurker lynch yet, so take those opinions with a grain of salt.
I'm getting a deja vu from XXVI where we had a Stutters vs Cubu wagon. Both were town and d2 was basically just a restart of d1 with two fewer townies. I'm definitely not set only lynching a lurker aorn.
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On September 20 2012 01:12 kushm4sta wrote:
Remedy postpone your suspicion of me until d2 please. Who of the possible lynches, including lurkers, do you want to lynch?
Also guys if we are going to have an choice to lynch a lurker, which one shall it be?
Cubu's filter is just enough to prevent modkill.
Kush, you seem way too intent on lynching a lurker. Why does it have to be a lurker?
On September 20 2012 00:47 kushm4sta wrote:
@remedy Why would you vote for me at this point?
I'm not a serious lynch candidate today. At this point your vote just unfocuses the town.
You say my vote unfocuses the town. Why would my vote on you unfocus the town?
Your defense seems to be that my vote would just bring confusion.
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@SDM
My plan is null because of things I did not know about the roles. Yes, getting lynched is on my mind. But if I have to I'll reveal, and it should be fairly apparent that I'm town. If I told you what I asked, it would tell you my role. If you combine those two facts, it should be fairly obvious to figure out what my role is, assuming you believe that I'm telling the truth about either of them.
The fact that I'm calm comes from being put up fairly often. I'm used to trial and lynch games, where votes are much freer. You put someone up to 50%+1 and then a trial begins where they give their final defense, and then people vote innocent or guilty. I'm also used to games where a double nomination begins a trial. I'm not particularly used to 50%+1 is a kill, so I intended to use L-1 as a trial stand similar to how I do in other games.
In that style of voting you often end up being called out and role claiming is quite often on the first day (again though, I'm used to D1 being post night phase) so there is often a jailor/investigative role of some kind/doc that can confirm them in some way shape or form.
@SDM
Yes, I have used reads from other games in this game. THey are games I played in. They were rendered moot by the information I found out. It was a question I should have asked at the start of the game, because it was not mentioned in the roles, but I had just assumed it.
@Thrawn
Yes, there was the slimmest chance I thought he was a blue. I thought it was more likely he was SK, or loud town, then the very teeny possibility he was just the world's most obvious blue.
When you questioned my vote it was also after several more posts of yours, and the way your posting changed when you called me out on that. You stopped being cool, you started being aggressive. Why the change in demeanor from me going after the guy that's buddying up to you? It wasn't OMGUS that had he ready to go after you, it was how you reacted to debears, and how he reacted to you.
After that I realized how many lurkers we still had, and decided I was less comfortable with my read on you two because of your posting (not because of debears, he's more scummy than you at this point in my mind). So I figured you two are still going to post the same amount the next day, let's get someone who has just been hiding all day.
Yes, I decided I shouldn't go after you guys anymore based on information I had been previously unaware of, that would explain the way you two were acting based upon my role. I can't get much more obvious without spelling it out.
So I settled on Stutters for scummiest lurker, and was waiting for his post before I decided whether I was more comfortable going after Remedy instead.
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On September 20 2012 02:00 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 01:12 kushm4sta wrote:
Remedy postpone your suspicion of me until d2 please. Who of the possible lynches, including lurkers, do you want to lynch?
Also guys if we are going to have an choice to lynch a lurker, which one shall it be?
Cubu's filter is just enough to prevent modkill. Kush, you seem way too intent on lynching a lurker. Why does it have to be a lurker? Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 00:47 kushm4sta wrote:
@remedy Why would you vote for me at this point?
I'm not a serious lynch candidate today. At this point your vote just unfocuses the town.
You say my vote unfocuses the town. Why would my vote on you unfocus the town? Your defense seems to be that my vote would just bring confusion.
Right now we are trying to figure out who to lynch. That is what town needs to be talking about now, not random suspicions.
Why do I want to lynch a lurker? Because sharrant doesn't seem scummy enough to be a better vote than a lurker.
I would rather lynch a lurker d1 than have to waste a later vote on a lurker. I do not want there to be the presence of a town lurker for mafia to safely vote for again and again. Are we just going to let cubu lurk all game, posting 1 shitty thing a day, and pray that he's not scum?
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And what if the person you decide is lynch worthy based on lurker status comes up as a town. What are your plans after that? It is not helping town, but helping mafia in the long term.
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On September 19 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
The Kush being SK read I've already commented on. His target is not original and I think calling out SK is weird.
The Debears read is most certainly not original, since he's adding basically nothing to my case. He also made after he had already gotten accused.
Just to clarify, I meant that actively pursuing debears with role claim pressure was original (although bad, as pointed out). He was active in trying to get more information.
On September 20 2012 01:48 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
If we're going for a lurker lynch, I wouldn't go for Stutters. Cubu is a fucking mystery and shouldn't be allowed into any more maffia games. I'm also suspicious of Remedy and Ataheitalos. I haven't really looked into a possible lurker lynch yet, so take those opinions with a grain of salt.
I'm getting a deja vu from XXVI where we had a Stutters vs Cubu wagon. Both were town and d2 was basically just a restart of d1 with two fewer townies. I'm definitely not set only lynching a lurker aorn.
Typo? I'm guessing that means me?
I'll be back after class with a post, but right now I'm leaning towards shutters and cubu. I don't see a strong enough case for debears / sharrant. For now,
##VOTE: Shutters695
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Ok sharrant I see what you are trying to say about that thing but if I am to trust you on it then obviously I shouldn't really ask you to directly clarify it. So... what about if I tell you're wrong in thinking that I'm a mason? Does that impact your read on me or debears? If mason is in fact the magic word then what was it about masons that are different in the other games you've played? I don't really know how to approach this situation because now a big part of your defense is something I don't want to discuss.
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Sharrant now is definetly not the time to be secretive. If you had a master plan that failed share it. Everything and anything is better than what you are doing which seems to me the equivalent of going: "guys I had a plan but it failed so that's why I was acting very strange".
Now since you are under attack I feel that you are becoming way less townie. A townie should be completely open at this point. Even in case of a mislynch all information you give might be important. That is not what I am seeing from you. In fact it's so bad that I am voting you since you have definetely gone over debears in scumyness.
##Unvote debears
##Vote Sharrant
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@Sharrant
+ Show Spoiler + Sharrant Canada. September 20 2012 01:20. Posts 24 PM Profile Quote #
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@Thrawn
The mod never made mention of either of you, the question did not have anything to do with either of you. It was a question of mechanics which made both of you appear less scummy to me. Make of that what you will, I think you should be able to figure it out with what I was saying earlier.
@SDM
1. Werewolf, MafiaSC2, and just regular Mafia. All of those have had some form of independent killer. Werewolf having lonewolf/witch, Mafia SC2 having MM/Arson/SK, and regular mafia having SK as well.
This is not my first rodeo.
2. No, I haven't read through any of the games on this forum in detail. I've read through a number of games at mafiascum though.
3. At that point both of them had struck me as scummy players. Killing for going after easy reads, debears for parroting. Killing had made some mention of debears being mafia and went as far as to vote for him. I saw this as an issue that would end up being a distraction when it's two scummy players against each other, so I wanted to focus it on the one I found more scummy and see more of how thrawn and debears both reacted.
4. Yes, you are right about that, I was meaning when I posted to vote him. I had a slight town read on both of them before the fact that debears was just reposting what thrawn had written crept more into my mind. So I put in my vote, based on the fact that at that point they were both scummy to me, with debears being slightly ahead. I figured only one would be mafia, I could be wrong and it could be Killing that is. At this point, I am not interested in Thrawn or debears as a lynch until I see more of what they say. When I looked at what they said, I had an incorrect grasp of the roles, their abilities, and their possibilities in this game, looking at it with new information it strikes me as very possible that they are both town.
5. My read on him as SK was also always backed up by the fact that it could also always be explained by just poor townie play. I picked up on him as SK or "town that just blurts things out" because he was so afraid of NKs, and the few sort of slips he did have were not real mafia slips. They looked scummy to me, but not what I would expect from a mafia, rather what I've seen from other SKs. His last few posts have made me sure he's not mafia. THere's still a small chance he could be SK, but for now I view him as town until there's proof of an SK. To me the "please don't kill me"s seemed genuine enough that I didn't believe he was mafia, but the slips also pushed me in a scummy direction. Thus that was the only step that could take.
What happened to your scum read on killer? He still has yet to post more than a few lines on why I should be lynched despite being asked to. Also, he has lurked himself.
This is his best post.
+ Show Spoiler + KillingTime France. September 19 2012 15:07. Posts 64 PM Profile Quote #
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Ok - well I think the best thing for me to do Is go through the questions drazak asked me last night:
Players I want to see more from - There are lots of players in this category:
1. RemedySC - Not much interesting in his posts, nothing scummy but nothing strong
2. Drazak - Again, he made fair points about me and I am answering his questions - he has said he will also try to post more today. If there is one thing that I learnt from XXVI it is that associational cases are bad though. So leave off this how is he connected to X&Y on D1.
3. Stutters
4.Cubu!!! - I am quite happy to policy lynch cubu every game I play with him if he is not posting more. Cubu post more or I will vote for you.
Two strongest town reads: (though town reads are kind of dubious atm, because strong mafia probably look like town now -d1 we are more trying to catch a weaker mafia I think)
1. Thrawn - I don't put much stock in the idea that him & Debears are necessarily linked in some way - but his posting has been strong all day
2. Sonic - Solid town posts, less high up for me though, just because I have the experience of playing with him in XXVI and know he is a strong player who fooled me for large parts of that game.
When I went to bed, I thought Sharrant was towny - he was following the same train of logic that I did and he was . Now I just don't know - others have totally fought with him on asking debears to roleclaim and that was a bad idea, I don't think he is a good d1 lynch, there is too much chance he flips bad town, but he is definitely a player I want to look at more closely as the game progresses
And the most important part - scum:
1.Debears - my scum read on him from yesterday has not changed that much, his hugely defensive posting since then is a bad, and I agree with Kush's attack on his last post. I sort of like that he is attacking rethos - but rethos is an easy target, a lurker who has only posted questions so far. I await to see what he has to say about Sharrant.
2.Atreidies - 3 posts, all bad , random setup speculation. You can pretty much sum up everything he has said so far as "I'm not convinced" - That is not at all scummy per se - but you need to combine that attitude with efforts to scumhunt yourself and contribute actively. Because he hasn't, it looks scummy to me.
All this post is really is a giant list with a couple of lines per person. It doesn't accomplish anything.
Another post of his
+ Show Spoiler + KillingTime France. September 19 2012 22:41. Posts 64 PM Profile Quote #
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I don't think "having assignments due" makes Cubu any less scummy. Last game we gave a pass D1/2 to weetee who had to get replaced and let Xatalos off the hook because he was at the army - they were still scum and that was a mistake.
As
far as "My" case (not really "my" case - but my vote) on Debears goes I still prefer him slightly over sharrant. see Debears as more scummy than sharrant because he led with stupid play and then tried to explain it away, whereas on my reading the Sharrant case seems more "bad towny" than a strong scum read, he started trying to help town and then made a dumb mistake.
also why are so many people already voting sharron? His play is really stupid with the roleclaim call, but stupid play doesn't make you mafia. you think first time mafia would really be so confidently retarded like that?
Isn't sharron's roleclaim call as stupid as my defense of thrawn early on? You could make the same argument for me.
So for me it is kind of similar - but yours looks worse. That said, this game still has too many lurkers - I am not sure at the moment whether debears is strong enough to justify not shooting one of them, hopefully I won't need to make that decision because they will all come in with plenty of useful posts (fat chance).
Killing hasn't made his own case of any kind this game. And, the only case, beside lurkers, he has discussed is me. His only contribution is saying that I look more mafia because of the timing of my stupid play.
If you are going to go after lurkers, why aren't you going after the one you suspected earlier?
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The lynch votes are amassing for sharrant.
Lynching someone active d1 almost always results in lynching a townie!
Can i present an alternative bandwagon for the people who think he's probably town:
CUBU... He is winning the race for biggest lurker. At least if he is town we can lynch and not feel so bad if he flips green.
On September 19 2012 20:25 Cubu wrote:
Oh and sorry for lurking, but i am really busy with assignments. I gotta write four 2k word essays by next week.
So basically he is saying that he will continue to lurk throughout the whole game. Until next week is a long time.
We have 3 options.
1 We lynch him now as a policy lynch.
2 We let him live and continue to argue lurker policy until we lynch him.
3 We ignore him and just rely on the 75% chance he is town.
Our read of sharrant will get better. Our read of drazak will remain null.
I'm unvoting debears but I still suspect him. Just that bandwagon isn't happening anymore and I would rather lynch a lurker anyway.
##unvote debears
##vote cubu
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EPT
