Rockband Mini Mafia - Page 23

Mementoss

Canada2595 Posts

September 19 2012 12:44 GMT

#441

I don't find Palmar's case to be pisspoor or terrible at all, I can completely see where he is coming from, in almost all his points. That being said I don't agree with them 100% or am convinced that Marv is scum. I feel like the main part of the marv case is based on this post:

On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier.

I can see marvs logic behind it, but I think he just worded it in a way that seems really scummy. Than the rest of the case is based on marv's emoitions/change of play, but from my experience playing with players like VE I know this emotional case isn't alignment indicative. It also bothers me how players with no opinions at all in the game thus far when Palmar first brought up Marv, were all for voting marv. Before Palmar presented a more polished/convincing case.

That being said there is something I want to point out. The odd connection between MKFuba and Marv all game. They have been buddy buddy from the start, from Marv purposely leaving Fuba out of his lynching useless lurkers discussing, to Marv defending MKFuba, to MKfuba discrediting the case on Marv, to being very VAGUE and calling it interesting, to MKFuba and Marv both trying to push an austinmcc lynch. (With Mkfuba being consistent on it all game, and marv just recently bringing it up)

On September 19 2012 00:07 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:

On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:

On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.

@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?

Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?

Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?

On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?

Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +

Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.

I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever.

I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct?

Incorrect, fuba basically hadn't posted AT ALL, whereas Hiro *was* posting, but what he was posting was worthless. How do you not see the distinction?

On September 19 2012 08:03 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'm interested in prplhz at the moment. His entire perogative seems to be sharing town reads while inserting witty side comments. Just when he made me think he was going to start contributing more he posts a pointless list of town reads and then votes for marv. Aside from vague assertions of Ange's suspiciousness earlier, and now a weak argument against marv, all prplhz has given us are town reads, which won't catch scum unless he can find all 9 (or however many) of us.

Show nested quote +

I mention Ange because before marv, she was your only "scumread" as far as I can tell. I put it in quotes because I'm not even sure how you felt about her in the first place, aside from the fact that she "looked terrible" and that you wanted to kill her for unknown reasons. I wanted to know what you currently think of her because she's the only person I've seen you be suspicious of aside from marv.

On September 19 2012 08:05 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'm going to look through marv's filter now, but from what I can tell the case against him is that he found an argument interesting and he got mad at something he found stupid. I feel like both things are consistent with what I know of him.

-Never comments again after supposedly going through his filter.

-Now the recent sheep from marv from hiropro onto austin without much real reason to.

I know connections don't mean anything before flips. And I know mkfuba and marv know eachother IRL. But I thought it was something important to point out.

That being said MKfuba seems scum, and if I had more time I would be doing a fully fledged case on him. I would also be really happy with his lynch.

Also more to note, this "divided town" thing how is it bad? It seems to me that we caught scum very early in the day 1, and scum is scrambling to put cases on everyone else to get the attention away from prplhz, the votes haven't been coming easy on prplhz despite him being the main discussion of day 1. Hell, he hasn't even reached majority yet this game. He's also had his share of people call him or his posting townie, yet prplhz hasn't really came back to scumhunt.

Im outtie till later. Will be back before deadline, may come in for some quick comments before that too.

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

September 19 2012 12:47 GMT

#442

Ange covered most of my thoughts on marv above. One thing that did kind of stand out to me in Palmar's case was this post:

On September 19 2012 05:34 marvellosity wrote:
also, I'll answer you on Palmar if you can give me a coherent scum motivation behind my blatant OMGUS

gogogo

This seems out of place, given that marv often says that he dislikes the "it's too scummy to be scummy" argument. I'm unsure if OMGUS is in itself a scummy action, but I think a parallel can be drawn in this situation because he's using it to show his towniness. The problem here being, as marv has pointed out, that this gets incredibly WIFOMy. I'm not sure if it's enough for me to switch my vote to him. Going to need more thought.

@Palmar:
Any thoughts on Ange's prplhz case?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 12:47 GMT

#443

No, no, me getting angry shouldn't make you believe I'm town.

But you used it as a reason I am scum in your case. So I pointed out the alternative explanation.

"or the other is to think I'm town and wrong, and in that case raging at me doesn't make much sense, should rather just go do something useful."

because town marv doesn't rage at people he thinks are bad or wrong. Oh wait, he does. A lot. If you'd like to know, at the moment I think you're probably town, because you're pursuing me more fervently than I think you would otherwise.

I am currently filtering but you're like a flame and I'm a moth.

ghost_403

United States1825 Posts

September 19 2012 13:37 GMT

#444

V-V-V-V-VOTE COUNT INCOMING

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 13:39 GMT

#445

Alright, I'm not sure how to construct this post, but here are my thoughts on some stuff in the game:

Firstly, in response to Mementoss re: what I said about Hiro (probably gonna duplicate this as my post goes on, but meh):

On September 19 2012 21:44 Mementoss wrote:
I feel like the main part of the marv case is based on this post:

Show nested quote +

I can see marvs logic behind it, but I think he just worded it in a way that seems really scummy.

This is what I thought about it:

On September 19 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I don't care if you/people thought I was weird for liking Hiro's Palmar point; to me it was a perspective that I hadn't thought of at all and so it was interesting. Additionally Hiro's points on Hapa's contradictions were strong. Listening to contributions from a day 1 scumread who was mainly a scumread for not contributing is not scummy behaviour. I'm not sure if it's enough from austin[sic] to make me not want to lynch him, but at the moment I'm leaning towards austin. He's been very absent through critical discussions when I know he could have been active, and that's scummy play.

Leading on from this, I'm a little suspicious of Hapahauli. Partly because I know what he's capable of when I saw him dominate town as scum in one of his newbie games. There are two reasons:

Firstly, how he questioned me on listening to Hiro. I'm well aware that a lot of you disagreed with me finding Hiro's point on Palmar interesting, but I don't understand the thought train of not listening to a player just because you're voting for them, especially on Day 1.

On September 19 2012 02:25 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Regarding this:

Show nested quote +

Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar?

On September 19 2012 05:24 Hapahauli wrote:

Show nested quote +

How is it off? It can be scummy in a certain context, and your explanation makes sense enough.

It can be scummy in a certain context? What does that even mean? We only have one context here, and it's a Day 1 read for not contributing starting to contribute something I hadn't thought of. Don't know what context he was thinking of, or what answer he was possibly expecting from me.

Secondly, and with greater weight, were the contradictions on Mementoss + voting that Hiro pointed out. It's a disconnect in thinking about an issue that is often explained by the fact that scum have to manufacture opinions, and therefore they don't match up. The fact he backed down from it doesn't change the fact he made it in the first place. In Movie Mafia Day 2 (hi prplhz) Snarfs plunked his vote on me (QQ, a theme) with a contradiction of dismissing my town motivation as WIFOM, and using WIFOM to give the scum motivation. I called him scum for it, and he backed down from it (because how can you maintain a contradictory position?) but he was scum nevertheless.

There's not enough else in Hapa's filter to warrant me voting him or anything. A lot of what he's done seems constructive, so I'm not willing to go after him, but I'm uneasy.

mkfuba: Someone else I'm kinda suspicious of but I don't want to vote today. Mementoss, I know you think we're buddying, but agreeing on a potential read is just that we agree on a potential read.

The reason I'm suspicious of fuba is that he was absent for such a long time at the beginning of the day, so I was expecting to come back with something big and impressive in the evening, and he did not.

Ameliorating these concerns slightly is that mkfuba is holy-shit wishy washy at the best of times. Seriously, go read any of his games, he's a known wishywashy meister. So this isn't really a tell either way for me. I need more information and posting from fuba to get a proper read on him.

From what I know of him, he struggles to write posts as both alignments, but especially as scum finds it hard to find stuff to write about. So that's what I will be looking out for as the game goes on (presuming I survive this lynch :D)

HiroPro: Suspicious of him too. If his contributions on Palmar/Hapa weren't things I'd even considered myself, I'd probably want to lynch him right now. Whether people agree with it or not, I found his point on Palmar pretty good, especially as Palmar at the time came in swinging with scum/town reads with practically no explanation. The fact that he picked up on Hapa's contradiction also shows an attentiveness to the thread and analysis that indicates townie. The problem at the moment is that he has not subsequently taken a firm stance on anyone or anything beyond these observations. Leaning kinda scummy.

Zephirdd: I know he attracted a vote or two today, but I don't wanna lynch him. I thought his Hapa case was bad, and the fact he backed down from it even weaker. But his posts since then have had a collaboratory feel that I haven't felt from Zephirdd since we were town in NMM2 together. So leaning town.

austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place:

On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.

Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response:

On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here.

Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.

On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner.

I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum.

So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed.

Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is...

(1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games
(2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really
(3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously
(4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell.

Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way.

So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this.

It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact.

austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town.

After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum.

##Vote: austinmcc

The only other candidate I'm interested in is prplhz. Ange makes some very good points, especially the two I pointed out a little earlier:

On September 19 2012 21:12 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

I just read your case properly Ange, and I've left in the quote above the two points I think are particularly good. I'd like an answer from prplhz sooner rather than later.

Unless these are answered satisfactorily, I am open to a prplhz lynch too.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

September 19 2012 13:41 GMT

#446

I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?

##Vote: prplhz

I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen.

ghost_403

United States1825 Posts

September 19 2012 13:47 GMT

#447

V-V-V-V-VOTE COUNT:
austinmcc ( 2 ) Marvellosity, mkfuba07
iamperfection ( 1 ) Zephirdd
marvellosity ( 2 ) Palmar, prplhz
Palmar ( 1 ) HiroPro
prplhz ( 5 ) Ange777, austinmcc, blazinghand, bluelightz, Mementoss
Zephirdd ( 1 ) iamperfection

Presently, no one is set to be lynched! 7.5 hours remain in Day 1 !
Hapahauli have yet to vote!

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 13:50 GMT

#448

On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?

##Vote: prplhz

I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen.

This apathy only serves to firm my read on austin.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

September 19 2012 13:52 GMT

#449

On September 19 2012 22:50 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

This apathy only serves to firm my read on austin.

I don't doubt that. Can respond to it later, the time I've got is better served looking through filters right now.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

September 19 2012 14:29 GMT

#450

Voting prplhz is a bad idea, and I'm going to switch into hard-defending mode.

Have you seen some of the reasoning that people are voting him?

Austin sheeped him apathetically.
Bluelights sheeped him a looooing time ago.
Blazhinghand thinks he's the scummiest player, but has voted for marv and mkfuba in the interim for questionable reasons.
MMtoss voted him on Day 1, has discussed several other cases and has barely mentioned prplhz at all since.

Ange is the only person who has something resembling reasonable suspicion on prplhz, and even then I highly disagree with it. I'll get to this more after class, but we should really be looking at some of the people on the prplhz wagon.

Especially MMtoss.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

September 19 2012 14:44 GMT

#451

On September 19 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Voting prplhz is a bad idea, and I'm going to switch into hard-defending mode.

Have you seen some of the reasoning that people are voting him?

Austin sheeped him apathetically.
Bluelights sheeped him a looooing time ago.
Blazhinghand thinks he's the scummiest player, but has voted for marv and mkfuba in the interim for questionable reasons.
MMtoss voted him on Day 1, has discussed several other cases and has barely mentioned prplhz at all since.

Ange is the only person who has something resembling reasonable suspicion on prplhz, and even then I highly disagree with it. I'll get to this more after class, but we should really be looking at some of the people on the prplhz wagon.

Especially MMtoss.

Ninja. I've got 2/3 of a post on mementoss right now and would so much rather push him than prplhz. Gimme 10-15

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 14:47 GMT

#452

Interesting, two of you looking at Mementoss. I'd not looked into his filter as he seemed to have come across reasonably townie all game, so I'll have a look now.

Palmar

Iceland22630 Posts

September 19 2012 14:48 GMT

#453

What about marv austinmcc? Why do you not want to lynch him?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 14:53 GMT

#454

probably because i'm not scum, at a guess

Palmar

Iceland22630 Posts

September 19 2012 14:56 GMT

#455

On September 19 2012 23:53 marvellosity wrote:
because i'm not scum

LAL

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 19 2012 14:58 GMT

#456

very good dear.

Barbiero

Brazil5259 Posts

September 19 2012 15:02 GMT

#457

##unvote
##vote prplhz

bluelightz sheeps any player who he feels to be town
blazinghand had his view changed but decided prplhz to be better after all
Mementoss has stated that his top scum read is the one guy he is voting, and most of his posts are somehow connected to prplhz's case or people who aren't on his case
austin looks bad, I don't disagree with it
I've posted my reasons earlier and IMP is clearly not happening
Ange is legit as well like you said

and finally, there is way too much resistance on prplhz. resistance in form of a marvellosity lynch that I find to be unjustified, in form of a mementoss lynch that is coming out of fucking nowhere, in form of terrible posts from iamperfection, in form of terrible posts from hiropro.

also:

prplhz wrote:
I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate.

On September 19 2012 18:03 prplhz wrote:

Show nested quote +

Sorry, but I don't really know what the "marv thing" is. I've explained my vote on him and I read your text walls but I don't really know what you're talking about.

That said, I've convinced myself that you're town so that's one more for the list.

seriously? =_=

@Palmar
I'm very interested to why prplhz and imp are town. Like, for some reason imp is confirmed town. Last time I checked, he didn't claim miller and proposing a random lynch is certainly not a town trait. If he ends up flipping scum, what would you say?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

September 19 2012 15:02 GMT

#458

Still looking, will go ahead and post one thing at least. There have been a couple posts that have made me pause, just hooked into my brain.

The start of BH's first prplhz case I've discussed. How the way in which prplhz opens 2 scum games with the same kind of question feels like it can't be a scumtell because it doesn't do anything scummy on its own so it's got to be a thing that prplhz in general might do.

This part of one of HiroPro's comments, which has already been discussed, had the same effect...it was just a neat little comment that got me thinking:+ Show Spoiler +

On September 19 2012 01:11 HiroPro wrote:
Look at the voting in the thread. We have like 6 or 7 candidates each with one vote. That's a recipe for town disaster. And then look at what Palmar comes in and does - he throws three completely new candidates into the mix and doesn't give any real reason for them being scum. He's not trying to actually lead town onto a successful lynch, he's just trying to cause chaos.

Just gave me pause. Initially, I really like it. There's logic behind that comment. We've got spread out voting. Palmar comes in and gives new candidates without much reason. On first read, I completely agreed with that point.

Looking back, Palmar's entrance does nothing for me. Palmar didn't create the spread-out voting. And according to Palmar's entrance into thread, where he says he's only read the first 5 pages or so, he may not have even known how the votes were falling. It's unlikely that Palmar, who had no cred at the time, would open up trying to create confusion, especially if he didn't know everything that happened.

Moreover, it's not like Palmar's post actively created confusion. Giving reads and NOT backing them up at all doesn't create confusion given the state we're in. We had actual cases on people, a lot of other balls in the air. Nobody should be dropping reads they're pursuing for REASONS and pursuing some read that Palmar throws in thread with little justification. There was no confusion created off of his scumreads at the time.

It doesn't make Palmar town. It doesn't make HiroPro scum. But that was just a comment that hooked its way into my brain, and I wanted to give my thought process on it. Just one of the more interesting parts of a post that I'd seen.

But now onto the post that REALLY caught my eye. It's this!

On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=14#261

Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro.

Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different.

He didn't just go "austinmcc you scummy." He's got this long-winded response. It can't be TOO obvious. I'm waffling. I'm all over the place. Rather than call me out for saying something scummy, like Palmar/marv/others?, VOTING me like hapa and marv did, Mementoss just calls me out for being wishy-washy. And he doesn't even really call me out, at least as I read that, he just kind of...posts this thought and then drops it.

I do not like this. Does this reaction feel different to others? Does it feel strong? Does it feel like he's actually accusing me?

This has me concerned about Mementoss. Wanted to give him a closer look.

His mentions of me:+ Show Spoiler +

His next post:

On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them.

Bluelightz brought this up, as him "inserting a subtle finger onto me." But this also caught my eye somewhat. This is a statement that concerns me. I'm not sure that I'm usually articulate in my posts. Especially as things go on, I post a lot of musings. I post some conspiracy theories. In the last mini I played I had some pressure on me D1 because I was INSANELY inarticulate. I had a correct scumread but couldn't push it because I was just blabbering all over the place and not making sense.

So...I'm wondering where Mementoss got this from. Maybe it's true. Maybe I'm usually articulate. But I don't see it that way, and it feels odd for someone to just throw that statement out there.

He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little:

On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it.

I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa?

I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness.

I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure.

A lot of the rest of his filter is these little...observations and questions that don't DO anything. They're filler:
+ Show Spoiler +

The early bit with prplhz asking about mkfuba

On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874

You hosted a game he was in.

More MKFUBA games if you want
+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625

Who cares if prplhz lies or misrepresents what he knows about mkfuba? It's not scummy or townie or ANYTHING to do so. But mementoss latches onto something that's entirely null, in my mind. In fact, he latches onto it so strongly that it's almost his REASON for voting prplhz

On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv.

##vote: prplhz

Blazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence?

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Hai gais!

Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =)

Show nested quote +

Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P

Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys

please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read

there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is?

On September 18 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:

Show nested quote +

name my band

BH I like yo case. BH you know prplhz so well. BH I'ma vote prplhz too because he lied/didn't realize/whatever about not knowing mkfuba. I hate that as a reason to vote someone. Even if prplhz is straight up lying, how is it a scummy lie? It serves no purpose, pushes no objective. prplhz isn't twisting his moustache saying, "Mwahahaha, I'm mafia, and now those fools will be spending all of D1 trying to explain to me who mkfuba is! Mwahahaha!"

He also, in that post, points out the contradiction between prplhz wanting to keep bs out of thread and then posting his video about a band name. Again, yes it's contradictory. I noticed that too. But it's not SCUMMY. It's a contradiction that does nothing for nobody nohow.

+ Show Spoiler +

His interaction with Marv about mkfuba:

On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?

Show nested quote +

Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +

Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.

On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:

On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:

Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?

Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?

On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?

Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +

Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.

I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever.

I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct?

On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other.

Show nested quote +

On September 19 2012 00:07 marvellosity wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:

On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:

On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:

Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?

Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?

On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?

Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +

Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.

I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever.

I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct?

Incorrect, fuba basically hadn't posted AT ALL, whereas Hiro *was* posting, but what he was posting was worthless. How do you not see the distinction?

Well what really caught my eye was Fuba's first post.

Show nested quote +

A shit load has already happened in the thread, and this is the ONLY thing he thinks is worth commenting on? Looks pretty fishy to me. I understand hes at school now and will expect more from him tonight. Fuba was in teh thread last night and decided to not say anything except the above.

I agree with you that HiroPro hasn't said anything towards finding scum, or anything that helps at all really. But sadly this seems like typical HiroPro meta. Even though it's 'typical' HiroPro it's not to be excused, and I definitely would ask him to step it up.

It just seems weird that you would bias one over the other.

Rawr rawr. Marv didn't mention mkfuba. Rawr. Marv so biased towards Fuba.

But what is mementoss DOING here. Does he find marv scummy? Does this mean ANYTHING to mementoss? He says it "seems weird" that Marv would bias one over the other. Great. Great and helpful. Ask questions, go through a dialogue, conclude that the first thing that happened was weird, and give ZERO thoughts about how your dialogue affected that thought process. As in, here's mementoss's brain:

(1) why is marv leaving mkfuba out? that's weird. Better ask.
(2) couple posts back and forth with marv, doop dee doo
(3) alright, time to draw a conclusion from this back and forth! I conclude...that it's weird that marv left mkfuba out initially.

+ Show Spoiler +

mementoss on mkfuba himself

The bit above, talking with marv and saying he disliked mkfuba's first post. Then:

On September 19 2012 06:29 Mementoss wrote:
Am I the only one that find MKFubas first post extremely scummy?

On September 19 2012 07:20 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

A good place to start would be who do YOU want to lynch and explain why.

On September 19 2012 07:21 Mementoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

No I don't particularly care, now that your here your future posts will give me more insight to your alignment.

There's no pressure! There's no updated read! There's no ANYTHING. Same as his bit with me. He disliked mkfuba's first post. He found my TOO obvious post wishy-washy. But he doesn't DO anything with either of those. He just sort of niggles at that, mentioning it, but drawing no updated conclusions. mkfuba's final post in that exchange, as others have pointed out, was ridiculous, "I have a reason, but it won't convince you, but I have it, if you want it I would tell you the reason, but I'm not going to yet, but I have it." WHAT IS THAT?! BUT. BUT. What is mementoss's reaction to that weird nothingpost? He doesn't care. Future posts will give mementoss insight into mkfuba. MKFUBA JUST POSTED A RIDICULOUS NOTHINGPOST AND MEMENTOSS, WHO IS EITHER FULLY OR HALFWAY CONCERNED ABOUT MKFUBA BEING SCUM, DOESN'T CARE. He doesn't notice. He doesn't poke at it. It just slides away. That is NOT the reaction of someone who thinks mkfuba is scummy. That is NOT the reaction of someone who's scumhunting, even.

So here's the thing. I don't get the feeling like mementoss is scumhunting. Not in the way that people should be getting that feeling about me, or others that have lurked. I get the feeling like he's been trying to show that he's scumhunting, but that his reactions are entirely wrong for someone who is doing so.

His reaction to my TOO obvious post was to tell me not to be wishy-washy. When everyone else's reaction was "austinmcc scum." He then later notes that he applied pressure with his comments.
He pokes at mkfuba, but when mkfuba responds with a nothingpost, mementoss doesn't care at all.
He engages marv in discussion, after something weird, but seems to draw no conclusion from the discussion, ending at his starting point
He voted prplhz based partially on BH's case (fine) and partially on prplhz asking who mkfuba was (not a scummy contradiction, NOT fine)

I know that it's shitty to be gone, throw out someone new, vote them, try to switch votes, blah blah. But mementoss is the most scummy person to me. I'd rather vote someone scummy than sheep, although prplhz isn't a pure sheep, he doesn't look great and I was really worried about something Zephirdd mentioned, that mini where he got pinned on D1, claimed cop, and then just sat back all game.

Still...mementoss scummier.

##Unvote
##Vote: Mementoss

Hapa, you had previous concerns over mementoss. They seem to still be around. How do you feel about his reactions to my TOO obvious post and mkfuba's weird post?

marv and palmar, you guys both found me SCUMMY based on that TOO obvious post. How do you feel about mementoss's reaction? Was he just calmer about it, or does it actually feel like he responded in an entirely different way than a town mindset player would?

Other folks. Has mementoss done a thing you're happy with? Contributed something you're happy with?

Blazinghand

United States25550 Posts

September 19 2012 15:06 GMT

#459

I'm scratching my head here cause this hard defense seems very much like just random discrediting and very little like a refutation of a case or an explanation for why your case is better. This ain't a hard defense at all. I am unconvinced.

Palmar

Iceland22630 Posts

September 19 2012 15:15 GMT

#460

Get off my Hapa bro's case.

Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring.

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