Season 8 Lock and new Ladder changes incoming - Page 14
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ANoise
United States67 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 08 2012 02:58 jinorazi wrote: isn't that what op says? rank 1 = 1%, 2 = 2%...50 = 50% and so on You cannot make that conclusion. It is only true on average. | ||
MrF
United States320 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:31 pallad wrote: Not true.. , if you can count , you can do basic math from patch 1.5 . Im diamond and i can see "games played this seson" in profile , when i watch ladder i see wins , plus/minus and i got my win ratio , simple as that First of all games played this season includes all game types as far as i know, not only team games but also custom, the latter being a recent addition, second why would they force people to do calculations to figure out their win loss ratio its not very as they say transparent, personally i like seeing all stats not less. It would be amazing if it went back to the super old style of showing win/loss info as well as vs race and map specific stats, but i guess thats too much to ask. As to the tier situation I dont see how this is really going to be accurate if the devesions are still just a section of 100 people it still comes down to luck and when you actually qualify for said devision, for example people who play their placement match on the first day of the new season will be placed amoung others who do the same so wouldnt that still mean that there are tiers of a sort, i say do away with the whole rank out of 100 system and go with a global elo with your rank being an actual percentile, however for some reason people or blizzrd doesnt seem to want this... | ||
TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:03 paralleluniverse wrote: You cannot make that conclusion. It is only true on average. Doesn't it mean you are the top ranked out of a randomly selected group (in your league) instead of out of a group subtly biased to contain players of a certain skill level? | ||
paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:08 TheFrankOne wrote: Doesn't it mean you are the top ranked out of a randomly selected group (in your league) instead of out of a group subtly biased to contain players of a certain skill level? Yes. But if there are 1000 random groups, several of them are randomly going to have higher skill than the rest. The distribution of the average skill of a group will be normally (not uniformly) distributed according to the central limit theorem, so some groups will be better than other simply because of random chance. Being in the top 2% of a randomly selected group doesn't mean that you're in the top 2% of the league. It means on average you are in the top 2% of the league. | ||
paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
What happened to this design philosophy? Did they realize that seeing your pointless division rank change wasn't so novel after all? Or do they still believe in this pointless ladder system, and only decided on this change after concluding that increasing the skill range of a division from 3.3% to 20% (6 division tiers currently?) won't be bad enough to diminish the FUN in climbing the division ladder? Or was it really because all of the sudden, after more than 2 years, they're concerned that promotions aren't transparent enough, as they admit. Really, what's changed their minds? | ||
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:18 paralleluniverse wrote: Yes. But if there are 1000 random groups, several of them are randomly going to have higher skill than the rest. The distribution of the average skill of a group will be normally (not uniformly) distributed according to the central limit theorem, so some groups will be better than other simply because of random chance. Being in the top 2% of a randomly selected group doesn't mean that you're in the top 2% of the league. It means on average you are in the top 2% of the league. i think thats a given, i wasnt literally saying 2%, i was actually going to edit it with ~2% and so on but i got lazy. it certainly holds more value than what it is now. | ||
MarkyMark69
Canada3 Posts
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On September 07 2012 16:59 ZwuckeL wrote: Compare these divisions: I call this division A: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1582414/1/ATǂCENSURE/ladder/leagues and this division B: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1274090/1/CuteZerg/ladder/leagues Division A was most likely established very early into the season, Division B quite a lot later. Now you can see that the first ranked player in B would be only be placed 12th in division A. B 2nd player would be 14th in A B 3rd player would be 17th in A and so on... this pretty much fails hard at the statement "Place 1 roughly equals top 1% of playerbase" Though it could be right for the first player in division B, what about the players in divsion A, placed 2-12 ?? According to their rating and compared to the first player of division B, they would also be top 1% of the playerbase. According to blizzards statement though, they are only best 10% of the playerbase. edit: even bigger is the difference between those divisions' top 50, which would equal to "being top 50% of the playerbase" Division A Top50 players include all until 1032 ponts. Division B Top50 players include all unitl 380 points. So reading blizzard's statement, the player placed 50th in division B would think he is one of the 50% highest rated players in master league. (which he isn't, because the difference between different aged divisions is too big) Very good post. I do hope they will do something about this, but I doubt it will happend. As it is now, rank in Masters means nothing. | ||
Sakray
France2198 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 07 2012 16:59 ZwuckeL wrote: Compare these divisions: I call this division A: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1582414/1/ATǂCENSURE/ladder/leagues and this division B: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1274090/1/CuteZerg/ladder/leagues Division A was most likely established very early into the season, Division B quite a lot later. Now you can see that the first ranked player in B would be only be placed 12th in division A. B 2nd player would be 14th in A B 3rd player would be 17th in A and so on... this pretty much fails hard at the statement "Place 1 roughly equals top 1% of playerbase" Though it could be right for the first player in division B, what about the players in divsion A, placed 2-12 ?? According to their rating and compared to the first player of division B, they would also be top 1% of the playerbase. According to blizzards statement though, they are only best 10% of the playerbase. edit: even bigger is the difference between those divisions' top 50, which would equal to "being top 50% of the playerbase" Division A Top50 players include all until 1032 ponts. Division B Top50 players include all unitl 380 points. So reading blizzard's statement, the player placed 50th in division B would think he is one of the 50% highest rated players in master league. (which he isn't, because the difference between different aged divisions is too big) Ahh yes, how could we forget this. Divisions that are created earlier tend to have a lot better players than divisions created later, because good players are more likely to start playing at the beginning of the season. This was seen throughout beta where divisions were numbered 1, 2, 3, etc, and the first few divisions that were filled before the later ones had all the best players. | ||
stevarius
United States1394 Posts
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 08 2012 04:16 stevarius wrote: The only way I could see this new ladder rank change working is if players can freely change divisions to try and keep the rankings as accurate as possible. If they're locked in it is going to be weird still. With no division tiers, you can compare points directly. Completely ignore divisions. Pretend that they do not exist. | ||
TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:28 paralleluniverse wrote: I wonder what Pardo, Browder and co. were thinking when they back-flipped to make this change. "But, but, it's so fun climbing the division ladder, seeing your points increase relative to a group of 100 players of almost equal skill". Right? "That's why we added the division tiers in the first place" -- the fact that these 100 arbitrary, faceless men were of very roughly equal skill meant that you got a chance to see your meaningless division rank climb (and fall). What happened to this design philosophy? Did they realize that seeing your pointless division rank change wasn't so novel after all? Or do they still believe in this pointless ladder system, and only decided on this change after concluding that increasing the skill range of a division from 3.3% to 20% (6 division tiers currently?) won't be bad enough to diminish the FUN in climbing the division ladder? Or was it really because all of the sudden, after more than 2 years, they're concerned that promotions aren't transparent enough, as they admit. Really, what's changed their minds? HOTS is out. | ||
Maggost
Venezuela296 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:10 emc wrote: personally I think the ladder tier removal is a great step forward, now if they could only give us our Wins/Loss ratio back, because not seeing that isn't very transparent either. I hope not, Wins/loss ratio are bad, i dont wanna see how terrible i am in SC2, plus its good that we dont see the ladder position too in the main page of our profiles. Less info stats = better for our minds. | ||
Damrak
Netherlands124 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
On September 08 2012 05:52 Maggost wrote: I hope not, Wins/loss ratio are bad, i dont wanna see how terrible i am in SC2, plus its good that we dont see the ladder position too in the main page of our profiles. Less info stats = better for our minds. So people like you DO exist!.....=( That`s too bad I really don`t see the big deal with people seeing their own stats. Do ugly people ignore the mirror too? | ||
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