On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
On August 27 2012 01:15 Shady Sands wrote: Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them?
EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life?
Yes, though I'm not implying, I am actually saying they can't. Women typically tell you standard bullshit like be yourself, be open, respectful etc. What they are actually telling you is how to be a chump from whom they can extract what they desire without give up anything. Taking their advice on what they want in a man would quicky make you friend-zone material. Someone they can come to and prattle on and on about all the mundane bullshit that goes on in her daily life while you provide emotional support like a good little beta servant before she goes and suck off her boyfriend who she probably complains to you about all the time. You know, the one who treats her badly yet she just can't help wanting his rock hard cock up her ass. Even if she is aware, and most times they aren't, she is never going to admit that the emotional rollercoaster that her boyfriend makes her ride almost daily is why she is so attracted to him.
Women themselves are the worst people to ask for advice on seducing them. Women love to have a harem of horny beta servants who are willing to debase themselves by giving her undeserved validation, attention and favors in the vain hopes that one day she will reward them with the delights of her wet and willing vagina. This is what advice from women is about and too many men buy into it and start to wonder after years of blue balls, suffering in the void of involuntary celebacy, why they can;t get a woman to fuck them or even get into a relationship with them.
Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman.
However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal. If a woman started getting all pissy at you over nothing you would tell her to calm down, and I'm sure it's safe to say you'd see what she'd done as completely unnecessary. Therefore it follows that being an asshole to her for no reason is not treating her as an equal.
Stop with this ridiculous false dichotomy that says you either have A) No personality and bend to the womans will no matter what she asks Or B) You're a dick who acts petulant and immature because "BITCHES LOVE IT".
On August 27 2012 01:15 Shady Sands wrote: Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them?
EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life?
Yes, though I'm not implying, I am actually saying they can't. Women typically tell you standard bullshit like be yourself, be open, respectful etc. What they are actually telling you is how to be a chump from whom they can extract what they desire without give up anything. Taking their advice on what they want in a man would quicky make you friend-zone material. Someone they can come to and prattle on and on about all the mundane bullshit that goes on in her daily life while you provide emotional support like a good little beta servant before she goes and suck off her boyfriend who she probably complains to you about all the time. You know, the one who treats her badly yet she just can't help wanting his rock hard cock up her ass. Even if she is aware, and most times they aren't, she is never going to admit that the emotional rollercoaster that her boyfriend makes her ride almost daily is why she is so attracted to him.
Women themselves are the worst people to ask for advice on seducing them. Women love to have a harem of horny beta servants who are willing to debase themselves by giving her undeserved validation, attention and favors in the vain hopes that one day she will reward them with the delights of her wet and willing vagina. This is what advice from women is about and too many men buy into it and start to wonder after years of blue balls, suffering in the void of involuntary celebacy, why they can;t get a woman to fuck them or even get into a relationship with them.
Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman.
However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal. If a woman started getting all pissy at you over nothing you would tell her to calm down, and I'm sure it's safe to say you'd see what she'd done as completely unnecessary. Therefore it follows that being an asshole to her for no reason is not treating her as an equal.
Stop with this ridiculous false dichotomy that says you either have A) No personality and bend to the womans will no matter what she asks Or B) You're a dick who acts petulant and immature because "BITCHES LOVE IT".
This.
I'd add that knowing what you want to do with your life is 10x more important than any shallow attitude or details you have. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing, impresses a girl more than that inner compass.
On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
??? Why is this true
Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here.
On August 27 2012 03:22 Elsid wrote: Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal.
Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her.
If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort.
These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally.
On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
??? Why is this true
Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here.
On August 27 2012 03:22 Elsid wrote: Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal.
Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her.
If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort.
These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally.
Here's the thing. Women like a guy who can naturally treat her as an equal without having to puff himself up to feel that way. You gotta make yourself the type of guy girls want to impress, not the type of guy who has to smack down girls when they don't impress him.
On August 27 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
??? Why is this true
Could you be a little more specific. I stated two distinct things here.
On August 27 2012 03:22 Elsid wrote: Flipping a shit on purpose at a woman is not treating her as your equal, being deliberately petulant and an asshole is not treating a woman as your equal.
Telling a woman she is a bitch when she is in fact acting like one is treating her as an equal. You beta male types don't understand this and reflexively make excuses for her bad behavior while employing tempered down language in order to be more agreeable when you're trying to calm her. You're in effect treating her as superior to you, not an equal. This shit is not attractive and the idea of spreading her legs for you is a repulsive thought to her.
If she is acting like a bitch, tell her like it is. Shout it if you have to. I see it all the time, soft shameful male specimens who allow their women to do all kinds of shit and instead of putting their foot down, what do they do ? Try to reason with her with soft words of comfort.
These kinds of men are the kind that always agree with beautiful women, and compliment them profusely. So what, she has no flaws? These pathetic examples of manhood are so overcomed by the fact that a beautiful woman is actually talking to them, that they sell any semblance of their manhood for the exquisite pleasure of pampering them with whatever they desire. This is not treating a woman as an equal. Make her earn your compliments, time and favors like everybody else. If a man upsets you with his bullshit, you would call him on it. Do the same with women, treat her equally.
"you beta male types don't understand this"
What are you talking about? You know nothing of my behaviour with women yet you constantly assume things about my personality. If a woman is acting like a bitch I will in general tell her to calm down. I won't however use the "get a hotter girl strategy" cos that is fucking abusive to both of the women involved. I won't "make her cry" on purpose as you put it. I treat women pretty much how I treat men and when a friend of mine is being a dick I just tell him he's being a dick. You don't have to be an asshole to have a personality.
Also stop calling people "beta males" because it's pretty stupid. You're the one playing games and being abusive and trying to play on emotion, if anything you're the beta. You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality.
If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
On August 27 2012 05:46 Elsid wrote: You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality.
Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest.
On August 27 2012 05:46 Elsid wrote: You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality.
Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest.
Rofl. Here's what I want from a girl
Sex Emotional gratification (trust, bonding, stability, anchoring) Good food Tidiness
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels.
You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her.
Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness.
You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk.
This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like.
Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches.
Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases.
On August 27 2012 05:46 Elsid wrote: You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality.
Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest.
Rofl. Here's what I want from a girl
Sex Emotional gratification (trust, bonding, stability, anchoring) Good food Tidiness
Here's what girls usually want from a guy
Sex Emotional gratification Good food Tidiness
Why do you have to make it sound so hard?
Actually its very easy.....its the guys here getting friendzoned left and right that its somehow difficult to. TLers are a logical bunch but there ain't nothing logical about female attraction. Guess thats why its hard for them.
The thing with girls is to just hold your own emotions in check for a while, and not get emotionally invested in her before she gets invested in you.
Figure out what she wants, figure out what you want, and if you guys want the same thing just roll with it. If not don't build up giant windmills in your head to joust against, that's stupid
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels.
You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her.
Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness.
You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk.
This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like.
Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches.
Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases.
On August 27 2012 05:46 Elsid wrote: You're the man who isn't honest enough to say exactly what he means or state what he wants clearly and instead has to try and come up with "strategies" and "tricks" instead of just being a personality.
Actually, you "BETAS" are the ones who are never honest with what you want which is what kills you guys with women. By virtue of being "BETA", you're more converned with being agreeable than being honest.
Keep attacking arguments that aren't there man, whatever helps you feel like you're right.
Quite frankly you know nothing about the people you're talking about and their attitudes towards women. Keep making assumptions about mine and others treatment of women and look even more delusional. I have kept stressing be a person <- being a person means having a personality, it means knowing who you are and what you're comfortable/not comfortable with. It means being unafraid to be who you are and being unafraid to show others who you are.
What part of that sounds like it places being agreeable above being honest?
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels.
You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her.
Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness.
You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk.
This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like.
Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches.
Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases.
Very very good post..+10 !!
I should probably add that, while I don't question the effectiveness of your mindset and general attitude, I think it's completely over the top and unnecessary what you're advocating. The whole stuff about the silent treatment, inducing jealousy on purpose all the way to trying to make her cry if she overstepped some artificial boundary is not something I'd recommend to anyone in most cases.
The few people (yes, people - women can do this just as fine) I know following through with this stuff lack happiness and satisfaction in the long run. Sure, working with negative emotions nets probably even better and more consistent results than working with positive emotions but I doubt that's a road most people want to go down.
I just don't see any reason to advocate behaviours like the above when I can get the exact same compliance by being way over the top in terms of attraction and sexual tension in a positive context. It's rare that women witness that in a man in the first place so I might as well leave happy and positive experiences around when we're done with each other. =)
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
While you have some few valid points a lot of your advice is the reason most men are so horrible with women. You probably don't want to see those images of yours shattered but both from my experience with seduction and also from my experience from working with couples I can tell you that you're wrong on so many levels.
You're completely wrong about how attraction works (since it's mostly about more universal traits than what you're mentioning), you're overvalueing physical appearance (I tried going out being unshaved for a week or two, I tried going out in sloppy clothes - it's almost completely neglectible) and you're completely neglecting how much strong frames and mindsets pull women in. Sure, stuff like grooming, fitness, good dressing style is something I'd recommend to every guy having trouble with women. But because it helps him feel better in his own skin, not because it's necessary to find a cool woman, have a great time together and have her smile whenever she talks about you - even years after you've been with her.
I really kinda think you completely missunderstood what I was saying. These are very general points I am making since the specific personality traits various women find attractive are different for different women. However there are basic attributes you should have that most will find attraction in, reguardless of what particular personality type they like. People say it's bad advice since they don't understand it's the foundation not specifics, specifics you need to work out on your own since all people are different. I am not attracted in any kind of way to the kind of guys my sister is attracted too, she would never find they guys I like attractive, it's completely different personalities.. how can you really give any kind of generalised advice for that.
However Like I said, on the physical side of things, you don't have to be amazing in looks and body, but being really unfit or having a horrible face is really going to be bad for you... I don't think I would ever date a guy that I found physically unattractive because I know I can do better ;/. I would never date an unfit guy because I keep myself fit, going to the gym eating healthy, why should i accept someone who has lower standards for themselves than I have for myself. Looks aren't the end all be all, but you gotta have something there. I can't really say what is attractive for all women since I can only really speak for myself, my tastes are extremely specific for somebody that I would actually be in a relationship with, and not at all aplicable to all women.
Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness.
You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk.
This part, while definitely true, is completely irrelevant to guys actually HAVING trouble with women. Why? Since it's fluffy prep-talk that says nothing. It's not more or less than saying "Just be confident and yourself" to someone who has no idea who he is or how true confidence feels like.
Yeah, miracles in the friend zone don't happen. Your reasoning as to why is off though. It's not like they don't happen because the girl isn't receptive to it, they don't happen because the guys who usually end up in the dreaded "friendzone" by accident have no frame, no self-respect, no solid mindset and no idea how attraction works. I spent about a year trying to almost exclusively jump into the friendzone as fast as possible and as deep as possible and seduce the women from that point. Why? Because I enjoyed that way so much once I understood that it's possible without putting huge effort in, it's incredibly easy to maintain multiple relationships that way without being secretive, it has many advantages over more technical or aggressive approaches.
Once again, it's not HARD to escalate from the friend zone - it's that most guys who are good with women (especially naturals) don't end up there by accident and have to figure out what they have to do now; - it just doesn't happen to them in most cases.
What you don't understand is that those girls you are 'jumping into the fzone' with find you somebody they could find attractive from the beginning. You just fit in with all the things that particular type of girl finds attractive, you havn't done anything special or mind games spooky your just the right kind of personality for her to find you attractive, and you aren't hideous in appearance. Guys who get stuck in the friend zone often lack completely on one or more of the basic traits I mentioned... Those traits normally come with other better traits too. They whinge and moan and complain about it all the time too rather than having any kind of self introspection at their own real faults as people, bettering oneself is the best thing anybody can do. Champions train, losers complain.
On August 27 2012 09:59 TabyLing wrote: If you find yourself in a friend zone you should really just move on. Personally I know within 1 or 2 meetings with a guy if I like him as only a friend or relationship material. Women are all different and have different types of guys they are attracted to. Just like all men aren't attracted to one type of woman, all women are not attracted to one type of man. That is why I think it's kinda silly playing all these stupid games and trying to be someone you just aren't, all you'll end up doing is attracting a girl who isn'y really attracted to you but the mask you are putting on. Any relationship you have will probably be shallow and not long lasting, but if all you want it sex then w/e do what you want.
However there are some things that really just seem to be requirements for attractiveness, no matter what your type is...
You gotta be physically attractive, not many people give a damn how cool or nice your personality is if you look like a behemoth from the swamps you are seriously disadvantaged when it comes to attraction. Now you don't have to be like amazing hot, and you don't have to have the most amazing body. You should look decent though, take care of you appearence, groom yourself, wear nice clothes, etc etc. One of the best ways to look attractive is to be fit, being unfit gives a really unattractive look, on the other side being fit and healthy can look really attractive, even if you don't have the best facial bone structure. Being fit has alot of other benefits aswell, it improves your happiness, makes you more confident, improves your brain function, and well you can't really have good sex unless you are fit. Being confident and happy are also really important, not many people out there enjoy spending time with someone who is unhappy and unmotivated, it's just a drag, and can make for a really horrible relationship. If you have ever experienced one, you really don't want to touch another one with a 10foot pole. You should never be looking to get into a relationship for somebody to fix you or make you happy, only you can make yourself happy and you should never drag somebody into that hell with you. Sort yourself out on your own and be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. Self respect is extremely important, always keep true to your own integrity. Confidence will come naturally with a fit body, healthy happy mind, and a good amount of self respect, confidence is really sexy. Not fake confidence, real confidence usually comes with a happy mind and someone with self respect. You can be a confident introvert too, confidence doesn't mean being out there loud and partying all the time.. It's just being sure of yourself, happy with who you are, able to talk to people and be friends with them, to be able to do what you want to do without being so worried how people are going to view it. It doesn't mean being a stupid jerk. After all of that it just comes down to the type of person you are, and you really shouldn't change that to impress someone who just is not interested in your type. Some women like really dominant controlling guys, some like submissive guys they can control, some like things equal and even, some like introverts, some like extroverts, some like only men older than them, some like them young or same age, the list goes on and on and on. Work on making yourself a better person as a whole and women will just naturally find you more attractive, that doesn't mean just sit around and wait after that for the right woman to come and say "I LIKE YOU LETS DATE" you still have to go out and meet people and flirt, maybe you will have relationships that don't work out blah blah blah. The key is, being fit, confident, happy and easy to talk to are just attractive qualities over a broad spectrum of people.
Never sit in a friend zone waiting for a miracle to happen, it won't. Tell her how you feel, ie ask her out, if she turns you down, move on from looking for love with her, she isn't a bitch, or an evil person, she never liked you that way and just thought you were a friend. It is really painful when you really like somebody and they don't reciprocate your feelings, sometimes it is really hard to move on from it, but you are doing yourself no service playing games to try and win her over, only prolonging the pain. Be direct with how you feel, not pussyfooting around a bush passively waiting for her to ask you out. The only things you should ever change about yourself are things that grow you into a better person while still keeping true to who you are. Work out, get more mature, respect yourself and others, present yourself well in terms of how you look, find confidence, have ambition and drive, want something more in life than a girl and sex, learn to accept when feelings aren't shared and how to move on.
I for one don't believe in friendship between boy and girl and never will (except gays). If the girl tells you I like you as a friend, its actually "I like something in you, but its not enough for you to be a boyfriend". Be yourself, fit and happy is a generally good advice, but its not enough for "beta" guys, I have whole lots of friends irl, who are positive, have career and nice body but don't have girlfriends. There isn't something spectacularly wrong with them, but they're generally unatrractive for women. And there are also "alpha" guys (most of them are married and have kids already), and beleive me or not, they're advices mostly consist of some strategies and tricks to win the girl. Thats how they used to do in their whole life. You may never know it, cause you can't be in guy's shoes. But I bet you like some guys who are throwing their "tricks" right and left, you just don't notice it.