On August 24 2012 07:32 SarR wrote: This is what TL thinks will work.
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This is how a man handles a woman.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest.
And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.).
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest.
And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.).
Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys.
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest.
And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.).
Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys.
The biggest thing is to stop thinking "I have to act/be a certain way/do certain things to get a girl." and instead think "how do I find a girl that fits with how I act/am/do things."
That, and also make sure that the girl isn't thinking of herself all the time. Do the door test:
On August 24 2012 07:52 JoeSchmoe wrote: This sounds like what a rapist would say.
Wow you guys really have a talent for strawman arguments. Rape denies the will of the victim, what I'm talking about doesn't. Women come of their own free will. Nice try though.
On August 24 2012 07:52 Ryalnos wrote: You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you?
I'm no longer interested in SC but I still visit here. The place I visit now is the blog section and I only really pay attention to girl blogs because....well to be frank, none of the other topics really interest me. The point I'm making here is that I've read quite a few girl blogs here even though I may not post in them most times. They're practically the only thing I read here now and the discussions about the opposite sex that take place there have shaped this image in my mind about how some of you are when you deal with women. You're right, it is a strawman. Will Smith's character in that movie is not really the image that comes to mind when reading about your interactions with the opposite sex. The guy from the movie Hall Pass with the hot wife(Christina Applegate) who wanted to fuck(or did fuck, I can't remember) the younger guy is a far more accurate portrayal of what I had in mind. But I couldn't find a clip of him so I used one with as close a portrayal as I could find.
I'll concede that it may be a strawman but the way you guys pedestalize women gives me that impression. Its ironic that you guys think I'm I don't treat a woman as a person when its you all that are guilty of that when you pedestalize them.
On August 24 2012 07:52 Ryalnos wrote: You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest.
True, but its not respect I'm talking about, its attraction.
On August 24 2012 07:54 Elsid wrote: Total false dichotomy.
True, there is a gray area but I'd lean towards the second example more than the first.
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
You just can't get past the straw man you've built up in your mind, can you? No one arguing against you is advocating the attitude shown in that first video as a general approach to 'pursuing women'. You can act in a way which garners respect without doing what you suggest.
And, of course, you've always got to remember that women aren't all the same (and neither are men etc.).
Bolded part ding ding ding. Nobody in this thread is advocating being a pushover that grovels at the feet of women and does everything they say. To SarR: You need to stop acting like you either have to be A. A wimpy "nice guy" who lets women control him or B. A jerkass who controls women. It's not nearly as black and white as you seem to think it is. The fact is, there is a very happy medium between the two, that being a confident, assertive man who is still nice to his lady and treats her well. In other words, a true gentleman. You seem to be going by the phrase "nice guys finish last," but that phrase is a giant misconception because it isn't really talking about nice guys. It means guys who have no backbone and are basically slaves to women. ACTUAL nice but confident, genuine and assertive guys are most girls' dream guys.
Ok, I can see that you get it, although I'd leave out the gentleman part. But I agree there is a medium between the two extremes. Good post. I'll say this, its better to err on the side of being too much of an asshole than being too little.
On August 24 2012 07:52 JoeSchmoe wrote: This sounds like what a rapist would say.
Wow you guys really have a talent for strawman arguments. Rape denies the will of the victim, what I'm talking about doesn't. Women come of their own free will. Nice try though.
Strawman argument? Where did I make an argument? I was merely pointing out a personal observation but by all means, overreact and get extremely defensive about it!
On August 24 2012 07:52 JoeSchmoe wrote: This sounds like what a rapist would say.
Wow you guys really have a talent for strawman arguments. Rape denies the will of the victim, what I'm talking about doesn't. Women come of their own free will. Nice try though.
Strawman argument? Where did I make an argument? I was merely pointing out a personal observation but by all means, overreact and get extremely defensive about it!
Can we have one of the TL ladies come here and adjudicate? Bunch of dudes wanking on this thread is not going to get this discussion anywhere.
to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is.
Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever.
On August 24 2012 15:28 bokeevboke wrote: to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is.
Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever.
i guess, although maybe the better solution is to really change yourself into a more decent person?
I honestly believe that the human race has evolved for the better since our ape ancestors largely because of how women choose men and how men compete for women.
That door test idea is pretty awesome haha. Wonder whether it would still work today
Like everything it's not black and white, and everyone knows this. It's sort of a case-by-case thing and everyone will eventually find a girl, realistically speaking. Sometimes it's about changing yourself to attract them to you, sometimes it's about finding someone who is attracted to you for who you are, and sometimes it's just whatever I guess
On August 24 2012 15:28 bokeevboke wrote: to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is.
Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever.
i guess, although maybe the better solution is to really change yourself into a more decent person?
if girls don't like you that doesn't mean you are a bad person. Why would you wanna change yourself? Maybe you're good the way you are, just not likeable, the way you walk, the way you pronounce the words, the way you look, the way you gesture... these stuff are not easy to change. You can't just become someone new.
I honestly believe that the human race has evolved for the better since our ape ancestors largely because of how women choose men and how men compete for women.
sorry but this is the dumbest idea i've ever heard.
This shit only works in movies. In real life, its utterly pathetic. No woman worth her salt would ever find a man willing to chase down and jump on her ride begging like his life depended on it as anything attractive. Ok, maybe that scene is a little over the top but I couldn't find a more realistic portrayal of the exact behaviors I'm advising against. But it gets the point across. Treating her like she is some special perfect little snowflake is not going to earn you points as a potential lover. Not in the real world.
This 1 minute 13 second scene is the very essence of what I'm saying. Notice how brutally honest he is with her yet never gives in to her like some mopey second rate loser. For those of you who have never seen the movie let me tell you, he wants her but he knows that pleading and droning on about love and romance isn't going get a woman of her caliber and strength. He is not afraid to stand up to her and tell her like it is and if you're not blind, you'd see she is very attracted to him though she'd never give him the satisfaction of admitting it. That is the most realistice portrayal of male/female attraction dynamics I have ever seen. Now tell me, does he appear abusive to you ?
There is no need for me to say more on this topic since that scene said what I've been trying to say since I came into this thread.
This guy tries to talk sense and does the best way he can. He might go too extreme, but generally speaking most of it is true. You don't have to do the exact stuff but you get the general idea, which is not to be cocky and jerk all the time, be at least in equal level with the girl.
On August 24 2012 15:28 bokeevboke wrote: to all those who say be yourself and be honest, then you get the girl, try this: There are certain types of guys who are liked and disliked by girls. Its not matter of is he bad or good, jerk or polite, honest or dishonest. Certain qualities make us who we are, you can't do anything about it, its in your core. So. The guys who are liked have easier time, they can be themselves all time and everything works out great. For the other type of guys (disliked) they need to become rich and buy everything, or work their ass off to get the girl by any means (read: deceiving, manipulating, pretending... so on). There is no other way. Thats how it is.
Of course, you can stay who you are all the time and wait 'the perfect girl', forever.
Wrong. As I said earlier, the only difference between a friendship and sexual relationship is... SEX.
Friendship + sexual escalation = sexual relationship. Escalating from the friendzone isn't hard, just the people who usually end up there by accident aren't the ones with the frame or mindset to do so easily.
On the whole topic about jerk vs no jerk, both sides are getting their argument wrong. "To be dominant" means to lead, but also to protect. Both components are crucial in the long run, their combination is what makes one insanely attractive.
On August 24 2012 09:49 Shady Sands wrote: Can we have one of the TL ladies come here and adjudicate? Bunch of dudes wanking on this thread is not going to get this discussion anywhere.
Actually, I don't think this would be very helpful as the ladies here seem rather different. Riku for instance is quite a unique individual with a very peculiar personality and loves eccentric forms of recreation. Its quite abnormal for an attractive young woman. Its not bad, just different. It may very well be that she would be an exception. Its quite possible for her to be attracted to stereotypically unattractive guys not that there is anything wrong with that.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of attractive young women are not like her. So we cannot consider such rare minorities in this discussion. You need to tailor your approach to someone lacking her eccentricity.
However, RedJustice seems to be a grounded, normal enough individual who may be able to add weight to this discussion. Although, there is a chance that even she may be an exception as I don't know any young woman who'd consider trying to be good at SC an enjoyable way to spend time. But from what I've observed, she seems to be the least eccentric woman here.
On August 24 2012 09:49 Shady Sands wrote: Can we have one of the TL ladies come here and adjudicate? Bunch of dudes wanking on this thread is not going to get this discussion anywhere.
Actually, I don't think this would be very helpful as the ladies here seem rather different. Riku for instance is quite a unique individual with a very peculiar personality and loves eccentric forms of recreation. Its quite abnormal for an attractive young woman. Its not bad, just different. It may very well be that she would be an exception. Its quite possible for her to be attracted to stereotypically unattractive guys not that there is anything wrong with that.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of attractive young women are not like her. So we cannot consider such rare minorities in this discussion. You need to tailor your approach to someone lacking her eccentricity.
However, RedJustice seems to be a grounded, normal enough individual who may be able to add weight to this discussion. Although, there is a chance that even she may be an exception as I don't know any young woman who'd consider trying to be good at SC an enjoyable way to spend time. But from what I've observed, she seems to be the least eccentric woman here.
Er, I was thinking Keir, since she seems pretty cool for making food blogs and stuff, but I guess you know a lot more girls on this site than I do. PM away
Nah....I'm sure she has better things to do than enter such a volatile discussion that most likey will offend her. Besides that, if its one thing I know about TL users its that they're great with purely itellectual topics but when it comes to topics that encourage introspection(girls, religion, morality, ethics etc), especially when such introspection threatens to reveal flaws that some may never want to admit they have, it could get rather explosive. My views, true as they may be, have already set many of you on edge. Invite a woman here and the potential fallout from all the white-knighting that would surely occur would be disaterous in this thread. Lets keep it between us guys
Also, most women either don;t know or will never admit the are attracted to assholes so we could also be inviting denial masqurading as truth.
On August 25 2012 02:49 SarR wrote: Nah....I'm sure she has better things to do than enter such a volatile discussion that most likey will offend her. Besides that, if its one thing I know about TL users its that they're great with purely itellectual topics but when it comes to topics that encourage introspection(girls, religion, morality, ethics etc), especially when such introspection threatens to reveal flaws that some may never want to admit they have, it could get rather explosive. My views, true as they may be, have already set many of you on edge. Invite a woman here and the potential fallout from all the white-knighting that would surely occur would be disaterous in this thread. Lets keep it between us guys
Also, most women either don;t know or will never admit the are attracted to assholes so we could also be inviting denial masqurading as truth.
Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them?
EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life?
On August 27 2012 01:15 Shady Sands wrote: Did you seriously just imply that girls are incapable of answering questions on how they pick men, because said questions could offend them?
EDIT: Wouldn't you rather ask girls in a place like an online forum, where there's zero risk it'll affect your own social life, rather than asking offensive questions in real life?
Yes, though I'm not implying, I am actually saying they can't. Women typically tell you standard bullshit like be yourself, be open, respectful etc. What they are actually telling you is how to be a chump from whom they can extract what they desire without give up anything. Taking their advice on what they want in a man would quicky make you friend-zone material. Someone they can come to and prattle on and on about all the mundane bullshit that goes on in her daily life while you provide emotional support like a good little beta servant before she goes and suck off her boyfriend who she probably complains to you about all the time. You know, the one who treats her badly yet she just can't help wanting his rock hard cock up her ass. Even if she is aware, and most times they aren't, she is never going to admit that the emotional rollercoaster that her boyfriend makes her ride almost daily is why she is so attracted to him.
Women themselves are the worst people to ask for advice on seducing them. Women love to have a harem of horny beta servants who are willing to debase themselves by giving her undeserved validation, attention and favors in the vain hopes that one day she will reward them with the delights of her wet and willing vagina. This is what advice from women is about and too many men buy into it and start to wonder after years of blue balls, suffering in the void of involuntary celebacy, why they can;t get a woman to fuck them or even get into a relationship with them.
Women want equals, not pandering servants. Women are attracted to men who are unaffected by their beauty and unafraid to call them on their bullshit. Those are the kinds of men they fuck. You won;t hear that from a woman.
However all is not lost. There are some women who would bluntly tell you what actually works but they are relatively few and usually they are women very experienced with the worst torments life can throw at you(Think former strippers, abuse victims, women battered by the storm of life) . As for the majority, just do the exact opposite of what they say works.
EPT
