EPTOn August 06 2012 10:32 talismania wrote:
Also, I was roleblocked.
Also, I was roleblocked.
Do you get notified even without a role?
Mad Men Mafia - Page 42
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Hier
2391 Posts
Do you get notified even without a role? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Glasse
Canada1237 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:32 talismania wrote: You have the most suspicious posts and post timing when it comes to deadlines I swear. But to state the obvious instead of implying it: Did anyone take a vig shot last night? I kinda doubt that scum shot grush. I think they double-stacked sloosh. Also, I was roleblocked. Here, just for you: Option 1: Vig was role blocked. Option 2: Vig and mafia shot the same person. Option 3: Someone was protected. Option 4: They stacked on someone and vig got the other. Option 5: Mafia did not use all their kp. Option 6: Vig did not kill someone I'm fairly sure Vig shot grush57 because he wasn't useful at all to town and was causing more trouble than anything, which is good for them. I'm also fairly sure they wouldn't stack on someone like sloosh when it's highly unlikely (at least in my eyes) that he will be protected. So I am going with option 3. Good job medics. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
Hey VE, would you mind answering a couple of questions? I was leaning town on you agai, but this post really confuses me. Why would he mason Bugs after Bugs just outted me as a mason? It's as simple as that. The answer to that question is simple: because he had reacted in one way, wherebugsgo would certainly out Errandor as mason in the same manner he outted me. I believe he did it as a vehicle to discredit wherebugsgo when he outted him as mason by decrying his "antitown behavior". I actually forgot the most important part about it, rereading my explanation, because it seemed so obvious. I mason'd WBG because I wanted to talk to him in private. I did not understand his move to out you as a mason at all. It still is terrible , I maintain that. I really doubted he would do it again, because it didn't make any sense at all to do it. Now. You tell me that I am the beginning of the chaos. Did you not say that you disagree with his move to out masons? So isn't it natural for me to actually ask questions in the thread? Also, this does not reaaally make that much sense if I am scum. Look at the amout of attention and spotlight I have gotten from this. You seem to think WBG is town, correct? And WBG as town is usually pretty decent, not this terrible raging mess we have seen this game. So why on earth would I mason one of the strongest town players in the game, to call him scum? Do you honestly think any Scum would have the balls to do that? And actually push for his lynch no matter what? I am not tunneling some random lurking noob with 2 posts per day, I am activly going against a proven Vet. What Scum player would do that? I feel the fact that he's trying to appeal to everyone's emotions is indicative of the strength of his argument against wherebugsgo...he wants town to sympathize with him rather than think about the situation logically. It's scummy deflection. Where do I do that? Not even one example, just a blanket statement? What about this ? + Show Spoiler + or this ? + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2012 01:08 Erandorr wrote: Hmm , what about this ? + Show Spoiler + Yes. Thank you Strongandbig. I would like to expand a bit on what you have been saying. Gotta love 8:30 vision appointments. For anyone who doesn't know, from my perspective Erandor and VE share two important traits: One, they both call me scum in every game without fail regardless of their own alignments. Two, they're both awful as town. Right now I lean toward Erandor being terrible, since I don't think as scum he'd stop being lazy long enough to form a coherent sentence. Everyone look at what WBG is doing in this post.Now think about this post and try to see town motivation. As I stated before, I don't call him Scum every game. It just happens that we basicly never had the same alignment before. So when I call him Scum, he usually is Scum. The important part : WBG is not discrediting the arguments, he is trying to discredit the players. That is not something a good town player should ever do without being really frustrated. And there really was no reason for him to be this hyper agressive this early on. Unless he was scum and wanted to create a terrible atmosphere. Look at everything I have posted , look at what StrongandBig and Toad added. And then do the right thing and help us kill Scum. This cant be what you mean either. + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote: Show nested quote + It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. Because I think what he did was fine. Am I supporting a scummy thought? I don't think so. It's just different. Several of us (me, Toad, VE) have moved on with varying opinions on WBG. I ask you to do the same. Consider prplhz and talismania. If you still think WBG is scum that's fine, but let's focus as a town and get some discussion on prplhz and talismania, because regardless of today's lynch they are serious contenders for d2 lynch. yeah prplhz deserves to be hammered as well, but it still amazes me that you would reduce the entire case on bugs on the mason thing. I think strongandbigs points were the strongest, to be frank, he found some really good quotes and made some very good points on wbg. Which is funny, because if you read what wbg is writing, he is reducing almost everything that has been written as me tunneling him and I am completely terrible and tunnel him every game*(which is a lie btw. In the Pms he even lied straight to my face and said I called him scum in mini mafia X (where he was scum) when I actually did not consider him. Look at the logs and that game,he is blatantly lying about that) . And it is working. I will keep my vote on WBG unless someone other than him or Prplhz would get lynched, in which case I will move to prpl. No one else though and I would rather see WBG dead than prplhz Last thing. Could you explain from the PM log what made you think WBG is town? Thanks! | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, everyone STOP. This lynch on WBG is not happening. Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit. I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY. ##Vote: talismania I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really? I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo. _____________ also VE I will respond to you in a bit but can you please give me your opinion on strongandbig? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I'm going to try and calm down and address this one last time, because the fact that Erandorr is still using it as an argument against me is causing me a brain aneurysm. He says that masons are not alignment indicative, but at the same time forgets to mention that if VE were town, he just gave scum a free rolecheck on one of the important players. That was the bulk of Erandorr's argument: that what I did "did not make sense from a town perspective." So, therefore I am scum. Yet this is a false dichotomy (read: assuming a black and white situation which results in a radical and incorrect conclusion) because even if it doesn't make sense to Erandorr (and I've already expained that it's simply a perspective issue; Erandorr thinks only his opinions are correct, and quite frankly all of his opinions are suboptimal/wrong, hence me calling him bad over and over) it makes even LESS sense from a scum perspective. He never asks the question, does it make sense for me to do what I did as scum? The answer is no, because if I knew that Eran or VE were town then by definition mafia would already know that they are masons by virtue of me being able to pass the information via scum QT. Therefore outting the masons in thread is completely redundant and actually bad as scum. What does this tell us? It tells us that Erandorr is tunneling me for something that isn't a scum tell. It may not make sense to him, in which case it's his problem, not mine, since it just means he's incapable of handling different perspectives. Also with the number of lurkers in this game and given that grush/prpl flipped town, almost anyone can be scum. I feel like scum are very likely to have at least one mason, so it's key we take note who is known to be a mason. When I have more time I'll be doing some rereading. I imagine SnB and Erandorr are going to continue tunneling me because they're incapable of understanding how they are wrong, but I suppose I just have to live with that. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I can't be as active as I am normally but at the very least I'm more active than most of the players in the game. I won't be staying to my normal standards. If you think I am scum go ahead and try to kill me. However at this point I'm going to stop bothering to defend myself as it's a huge waste of my time. Instead I'm going to try to scumhunt (I didn't do that earlier since I was distracted by Erandorr) | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On August 06 2012 12:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Also if it hasn't been obvious already I'm actually under a lot more work and time pressures than I considered earlier. I can't be as active as I am normally but at the very least I'm more active than most of the players in the game. I won't be staying to my normal standards. If you think I am scum go ahead and try to kill me. However at this point I'm going to stop bothering to defend myself as it's a huge waste of my time. Instead I'm going to try to scumhunt (I didn't do that earlier since I was distracted by Erandorr) Hey WBG, would you mind rationally clearing this up for me. Why do you make it sound like the entire case on you is centered on the mason thing at the beginning, which is part of it, but not even that deciding. I already stated that I believe strongandbigs points to be very good, but you don't even bother to answer them. They have very little to nothing to do with the mason thing, yet you claim this entire case has been focused on that. Which is completely untrue. And you make it sound like I am the only one behind it , and as I said completely ignoring the valid points of a player. Could you just clear the air once and explain yourself again, but this time adressing the stuff that has actually been said and not what you make it sound like? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
That being said I'm going straight back to my parents place and visiting my sis once I'm done churning out my brain, so probably won't have that much time to post something the first 24hours. If someone protected sloOsh and he got doublestacked = good job If they shot Grush + sloOsh (why would they) = you suck medics  That's why I usually like vigs to claim their hit but whatever. Mr. 95% mafia (prplhz) and Mr. Grush both dead, and both town so far. WBG your strongest townread so far? I think we should just do this the other way around. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
He is sidestepping accusations so hard and instead is just throwing around bullshit accusations to distract us. Dont fall into this trap. About wbg who Ive accused before... Im not gonna take my concerns back completely because his actions are still highly questionable, but talis is much more urgent and obvious. This is a vote on talismania. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Since you like direct questions, which accusations, specifically, do you find bullshit and why? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I want to talk about VE first. I think Talis was on to something when he pointed out this post: On August 04 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I'd rather hunt for scum than defend myself, so I masoned a veteran in as a shortcut to establishing my innocence with him if he's town so he can smack down anyone (Toad) who thinks I'm scum for stupid-ass reasons. Also if he's scum, I wanted a private line with him in case he felt like telling me all about it in PMs. So far he hasn't. :/ Him instantly outting me wasn't something I'd considered. I figured he'd talk to me about it first. I have a long way to go in understanding Bugs' play. I don't buy the reasoning for masoning Bugs at all. I have a hard time believing that VE, who is keenly aware of how his interactions with bugs go, would still go ahead and mason bugs for the purposes of establishing innocence. I don't see how he can be so confident that bugs will read him as town if all they end up doing is arguing (and hence become pretty inscrutable to each other), which is likely. The second part, about him catching scum bugs in PM-land, is similarly dubious. I'll go look for some quotes, but VE is on record for being extremely critical of his town play (read: finding scum). The impression I'm getting from him lately is that he has no confidence in his scum finding ability. So we have someone who is struggling with finding scum asserting he may be able to nail one of the more difficult to catch scum players in PM's. Doesn't match. I'd like some other input on this before calling for his death, but it doesn't look good to me. Next would be BioSC He went through all of day 1 with basically no scum reads. The way I saw it, he made one 'bad play' read in grush, and then a token case on prplhz before hopping on the wagon. His scum reads in DBZ were all of the 'bad play' variety. I'm all for killing him. Glasse seems like a good lynch to me too. On August 03 2012 22:43 Glasse wrote: I don't get it, can you explain your reasoning? I'm as town as one can be. what? On August 03 2012 23:21 Glasse wrote: I can't really tell you, I haven't even done anything yet so anything I would say would be completely useless. Can't claim anything other than being green. So you will have to take my word for it. Who is scum? No clue, I don't like this wherebugsgo guy though. ...exactly. Also this, which has been pointed out already: On August 05 2012 10:11 Glasse wrote: -.- It was to be expected. Only other mention of prplhz prior to this was definitely in a negative light. This shitting on everyone after he flipped green is scummy. Hassybaby Another person who came out of day 1 with basically nothing to show for it. I found a half-hearted indictment of Talis, and a crap vote on bugs. One of the main reasons he votes bugs is for fake annoyance. Errandor's logs would be a pretty crucial piece of evidence that would inform this point, and Hassy says as much. To me, a town player waits to see these logs. Instead, he went forward with the vote, which makes me think he has no conviction behind his reasons-> they are contrived. The PM's with Toad do nothing to help his case. Toad already pointed out how he did a lot of agreeing. I liked this bit a lot: [03.08.2012 21:12:07] Hassy: Eran's "test" reeks of Bill Murray [03.08.2012 21:12:27] Hassy: the sort of "NOPE IT WAS A TRAP AND YOU FELL FOR IT YOU'RE SCUM" [03.08.2012 21:12:40] Hassy: but in fact it was a pretty stupid trap and doesn't mean much [03.08.2012 21:13:29] Erik: the thing about eran is that I actually liked his earlier posts [03.08.2012 21:13:44] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#249 [03.08.2012 21:13:48] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#258 [03.08.2012 21:13:52] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#259 [03.08.2012 21:13:57] Erik: all posts I like [03.08.2012 21:14:18] Hassy: oh I agree. I'm not calling him scummy, jsut....stupid I guess Here's Hassy hunting for stupid. What I see here is Hassy stopping short of calling Eran scum until he sees what Toad thinks. Then it's 'oh jk he's stupid that's all.' I'm good with killing Hassy today too. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:32 talismania wrote: You have the most suspicious posts and post timing when it comes to deadlines I swear. But to state the obvious instead of implying it: Did anyone take a vig shot last night? I kinda doubt that scum shot grush. I think they double-stacked sloosh. Also, I was roleblocked. what do you make of that? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I'd like to know why you thought it was unlikely Sloosh was going to be protected. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On August 06 2012 14:58 XsebT wrote: Especially the list that I responded to last time. There I also asked you to ask direct questions instead. The best you could come up with is "who do you think is scum". Well, Ive now made that quite clear. Be more specific. I made a list calling a lot of people suspicious for various reasons. Spell out what in that list really caught your eye. Do you agree or disagree with what I said about those specific people? Is it the fact that such a list was there in the first place? Have you read my filter at all? The direct question I asked you IS the best question that anyone can come up with. It's the essential question common to all mafia games, ever. Furthermore, Why is it your attitude in the first place that you can't be bothered to say who you think is scum or do anything without someone asking you a direct question in the first place? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:13 XsebT wrote: That he was role blocked? Thats a cute story and i case of it being true, horrible mafia play. To clarify, are you suggesting I'm lying about being roleblocked? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
what is your read on Toad right now? | ||
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