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On July 20 2012 11:58 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 11:54 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:51 Blazinghand wrote:On July 20 2012 11:48 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:40 Blazinghand wrote:On July 20 2012 11:34 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:23 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 11:10 Katina wrote: This thread is so messy it's not even funny. Here's what needs to happen:
Keep your votes on Kurumi. We are not going to spend the last day bringing up new candidates (Like Zealos) and throw the thread into complete chaos again then end up with another no lynch. There's hard evidence on Kurumi right now, let's not forget that. We will see what his flip is then go from therw. When D3 hits THEN will we start voting for other people who are Mafia. (Mattchew, Palmar, Foolishness, Blazinghand, etc)
There has been roughly ten pages since I looked at the thread this morning and all the content in those pages say close to nothing about anything. It's all a bunch of derp and twerp that is continuing to keep the thread horrible cluttered and disorganized. I'm surprised to see that the veteran players (who are usually good at keep direction for the town) are sitting around doing nothing or contributing to the chaos as well. If this continues then this game will be fast and resulting in a for sure Mafia victory.
Well that's a useless post. You basically come into the thread complaining that we have added no new information (false) and then proceed to add no new information yourself. Hipo-Creeeeeet First of all, read my post properly. I wasn't complaining that there wasn't any new information. I was stating that the thread is unorganized and that we shouldn't start throwing our votes all over the place again. We need to keep our votes focused on Kurumi today. "we" need to keep our votes focused on kurumi? The only guys on zealos are me and rasta, and I've explicitly stated my willingness to vote kurumi. I won't disappear from the thread. Also, do you really think there's no possible good argument for a zealos lynch instead of kurumi? because I think the argument that zealos may still have a power while kurumi certainly has used his up is a compelling one. We're lynching both of them anyways, why not lynch zealos first? ._. It just takes one or two votes to switch to throw the whole town into confusion. If votes start switching there is no garauntee that enough people will switch off Kurumi to lynch Zealos then we will end up with another no lynch. We are all in agreement and have our votes placed. I never said there wasn't a good arguement to lynch Zealos now, Kurumi is basically confirmed scum. Why would we mess that up now to attempt to lynch Zealos who may or may not be an executive? There is no way to know how high up someone is.... The speculation that he might be an executive shouldn't be allowed to cloud our judgement. Mafia is Mafia, we need to start eliminating them now. We really cannot afford more confusion and vote switching chaos again. Wat you really don't know why we want to lynch zealos do you I do know but people have been saying many different things about why the want to lynch Zealos and I'm saying switching votes now is not a good idea. We have 24 hours now is the perfect time to switch.
Only two people have switched as I said before there is no garauntee that enough people will switch over to ensure his lynch. We are already lynching a Mafia member, no need to cause distruption to that right now.
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On July 20 2012 12:38 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 11:58 rastaban wrote:On July 20 2012 11:54 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:51 Blazinghand wrote:On July 20 2012 11:48 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:40 Blazinghand wrote:On July 20 2012 11:34 Katina wrote:On July 20 2012 11:23 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 11:10 Katina wrote: This thread is so messy it's not even funny. Here's what needs to happen:
Keep your votes on Kurumi. We are not going to spend the last day bringing up new candidates (Like Zealos) and throw the thread into complete chaos again then end up with another no lynch. There's hard evidence on Kurumi right now, let's not forget that. We will see what his flip is then go from therw. When D3 hits THEN will we start voting for other people who are Mafia. (Mattchew, Palmar, Foolishness, Blazinghand, etc)
There has been roughly ten pages since I looked at the thread this morning and all the content in those pages say close to nothing about anything. It's all a bunch of derp and twerp that is continuing to keep the thread horrible cluttered and disorganized. I'm surprised to see that the veteran players (who are usually good at keep direction for the town) are sitting around doing nothing or contributing to the chaos as well. If this continues then this game will be fast and resulting in a for sure Mafia victory.
Well that's a useless post. You basically come into the thread complaining that we have added no new information (false) and then proceed to add no new information yourself. Hipo-Creeeeeet First of all, read my post properly. I wasn't complaining that there wasn't any new information. I was stating that the thread is unorganized and that we shouldn't start throwing our votes all over the place again. We need to keep our votes focused on Kurumi today. "we" need to keep our votes focused on kurumi? The only guys on zealos are me and rasta, and I've explicitly stated my willingness to vote kurumi. I won't disappear from the thread. Also, do you really think there's no possible good argument for a zealos lynch instead of kurumi? because I think the argument that zealos may still have a power while kurumi certainly has used his up is a compelling one. We're lynching both of them anyways, why not lynch zealos first? ._. It just takes one or two votes to switch to throw the whole town into confusion. If votes start switching there is no garauntee that enough people will switch off Kurumi to lynch Zealos then we will end up with another no lynch. We are all in agreement and have our votes placed. I never said there wasn't a good arguement to lynch Zealos now, Kurumi is basically confirmed scum. Why would we mess that up now to attempt to lynch Zealos who may or may not be an executive? There is no way to know how high up someone is.... The speculation that he might be an executive shouldn't be allowed to cloud our judgement. Mafia is Mafia, we need to start eliminating them now. We really cannot afford more confusion and vote switching chaos again. Wat you really don't know why we want to lynch zealos do you I do know but people have been saying many different things about why the want to lynch Zealos and I'm saying switching votes now is not a good idea. We have 24 hours now is the perfect time to switch. Only two people have switched as I said before there is no garauntee that enough people will switch over to ensure his lynch. We are already lynching a Mafia member, no need to cause distruption to that right now. Except I disagree and think Kurumi is innocent, so lynching Zealos is strictly superior in my eyes.
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Oh, reason. <3
TBH if we're switching I'd want to switch to Foolishness anyway. Skidoosh?
So....I'm gonna go read WBG's posts right now. I want someone else to do the same. Anyone can, but I'm doing it too.
Hypothesis: WBG was killed for a reason.
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On July 20 2012 12:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh, reason. <3
TBH if we're switching I'd want to switch to Foolishness anyway. Skidoosh?
So....I'm gonna go read WBG's posts right now. I want someone else to do the same. Anyone can, but I'm doing it too.
Hypothesis: WBG was killed for a reason. What ground breaking opinion... . Maybe it wasn't layabout then and I pointed fingers in the wrong direction, but I agree with you. There is much to be learned from his posts.
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On July 17 2012 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 10:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm considering Prob...here's the thing. BH is known to use questionable logic regardless of alignment (like someone else I know). Yourself?
I missed this post. <3
I was literally talking about myself.
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On July 20 2012 12:56 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 17 2012 10:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm considering Prob...here's the thing. BH is known to use questionable logic regardless of alignment (like someone else I know). Yourself? I missed this post. <3 I was literally talking about myself. I just read through bugs' filter. Nothing groundbreaking (cause most of his final scum list are still on the hotseat + Show Spoiler +On July 19 2012 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote: That seems like a message Foolishness would send me. He's probably scum. The other possibility is Chezinu or someone who wants me to think Foolishness sent me that message.
As for scum given how blatant their behavior seems I think the simplest route is to kill the confirmed ones first and then the scumreads that multiple people agree upon.
Right now ignoring Zealos and Kurumi that looks like:
Foolishness GGQ Meapak Layabout
And potentially: Katina
These are among my strongest reads as I've gone back and reexamined things. I was likely wrong about both BH and Austin (or they've been given ample warning into changing their play -_-).
I personally would also consider killing BM and Qbert because they're useless, but all of the named above are likelier to flip scum IMO (katina included; I lean scum but not confident)
).. I do find that he was extremely townie in his posts trying to figure everything out re-focusing and re-thinking reads. I think its more than likely he was killed because of this. There was also this post about how scum are forced to scum hunt (+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2012 10:38 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 10:35 marvellosity wrote:On July 17 2012 10:34 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 17 2012 10:31 marvellosity wrote: bugs: - eh... i keep deleting :p
you're obviously not particularly confident in your read on him if you wrote what you wrote anyway. if you're fairly confident he's scum then you have no reason to believe he wouldn't try to mislead town if he lived.
aren't you really saying you think he's scummy but you wanna give him a 2nd chance? read again. LAYABOUT IS SCUMMIER. yeah i got that. putting something in caps that you already said doesn't make it go in my head twice. I'm not asking why you don't want to lynch him today, I'm questioning your line of thinking that someone you believe to be scum would help us find scum. oh, that's simple. This setup has most scum not knowing who the other scum are. It's in their best interest to actually look for scum, similar to a game that has multiple scum factions. Otherwise they'll just die isolated. Thus, for a person like syllo to live, we force him to find other scum for us (we know that syllo is capable of this regardless of his alignment). As long as he is unwilling to do this we threaten him with death. If he is willing to help find other scum then he's either town or he's a scum who's helping us kill his own teammates. When we have more information on how he's done this (given time) we can more effectively determine his alignment. If, at any point, there are no players scummier than him, we just kill him. ) that I have kept in the back on my mind throughout this game.
If you look at the playerlist, and were to do a tier by tier of players, I would say of the most dangerous to scum echelon(+ Show Spoiler +this is imo foolishness sandroba VE WBG syllogism palmar ) , he was one of the (if not THE) most likely to not get lynched. Also, no one knows if there are any doc life saving roles in the game, which could explain why sandro is alive
I also looked for breadcrumbs about his judge/pardoner role but couldn't find anything
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On July 20 2012 12:25 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 11:58 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 11:57 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 11:51 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 11:50 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 11:44 gonzaw wrote: Hey Prob, I didn't see you talk about me at all since N1. Do you still think I'm mafia? I don't know, hence my silence. Your night post seemed genuine and if you really were too busy you will be better today. oh... I thought you were being silent about something else... You the one with all the questions.. How do you like my questions? What questions? You haven't asked me anything. Yes, I am asking questions. Mainly because there are people who have not posted clearly, or posted at all. I am trying to get clear positions from people. Consider it a period of reconsideration. I am not mafia and so I am not Chairman of the Board, but you have any specific questions, fire away. Who do you work for? you Probably don't know...if you get what i mean.. muahahha Okay I get it. Your interpretation is wrong, but I think I understand your role now. You're going through the motions aren't you?
I'm glad you understand. Your a sturdy player. Sorry for the delayed response, the power went out and just came back on.
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I really don't think switching is a good idea. This has been a great day for town so far but I don't think it's wise to take our eye off the ball. The last thing we need is a repeat of d1. Let's just kill kurumi and then take things from there.
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On July 20 2012 13:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I really don't think switching is a good idea. This has been a great day for town so far but I don't think it's wise to take our eye off the ball. The last thing we need is a repeat of d1. Let's just kill kurumi and then take things from there. why do you want to kill kurumi?
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VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis
First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic.
On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline.
So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet.
The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions.
But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill.
So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill.
Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know.
So right now I'm looking at something like...
Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand
...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting:
On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 07:52 Katina wrote:On July 17 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol @ Kurumi trying to insinuate that mafia know who town are in this setup (hint: they don't)
The desperate flailings and failings of a caught scum, too funny.
Also marv is a good scumhunter, an honorable scumhunter, let no harm befall him. Marv if you're town don't go afk, just ignore Kurumi. You can help me and sandro and whoever else is on town side. I'm still reading, but thoughts to come in a few hours after my lab.
Barring Kurumi I'd like to hear who Katina, Palmar, sandro, and syllo would kill right now. Palmar mostly. Wouldn't mind syllo, or Mattchew. <3 I believe you're the only one who even acknowledged my question. I agree with all three kills but I'd rank them differently. Wouldn't mind killing Blazingscum and layabout too, they're all scum. All scum, god damn them. Oh and Wiggles is AFK. Just thought I'd throw that out there, he hasn't posted yet. Possibly rolled scum again, the bastard. OH and BM is afk too. Wtf? Well hell, half the players are afk. W/e. Let's focus on one player first: Shit that makes layabout scummy:Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town. In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon. i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic. Kurumi is going to die at the end of the day. Thus, we should kill someone else. Let's kill this guy for now. Make the bad man fly. ##unvote ##vote layabout
Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of
On July 19 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 18:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Alright guys let’s talk rastaban. The first thing that caught my eye was, conveniently, his first post so let’s start there. On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote:Caught up now, thoughts so far: First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. This post is a whole lot of fluff. The game has been going on for a while when he makes this and there’s plenty to discuss however rastaban is more comfortable discussing the setup. This is a red flag, this type of post is something you make right after the game starts, not when the game has been going on and there are actual issues that can be addressed. To continue with this theme we have posts like this: On July 17 2012 00:19 rastaban wrote: Wait I just realized it said "one" of them in those posts. I had thought they sent out a message to all their followers at once, but it means instead of the above example, at most the high up, could tell one other person to try and save him. That means only 2 scum detractors at most from any lynch today Again, it’s just talking about the setup instead of actually scumhunting. Let’s look at the next two posts together: On July 17 2012 01:37 rastaban wrote: @BH What is this??? the only way someone could vote you is if they are scum, do you really believe you are that town? Your latest post is so crazy I almost think it is a joke. On July 17 2012 03:54 rastaban wrote: VE both games I have played with you you pushed someone incredibly hard day 1, why do you want to do a random lynch, cant you find any scum this time? Both these posts serve no purpose. Does rastaban think either of these two are scummy? Who knows. He says that BH is so crazy he almost thinks it’s a joke but gives us no read. Similarly with VE, he mentions how VE’s behavior is different than what he’s observed but gives no read. After a nice little wagon has built up on BH, rastaban finally feels confident calling for someone’s death: On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote: I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go.
As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake.
##vote blazinghand He like the case on BH better than the one on me but spends most of the post talking about something other than his reasons for voting BH. Ultimately, rastaban’s vote seems like it is available to whichever candidate is currently the flavor of the hour: On July 17 2012 13:29 rastaban wrote: Sylo also looks like a good target, and while his actions are Scummy I recommend the Ace method, when two people both look like scum start by lynching the player you have more content on. We can give Sylo till tomorrow to improve if need be, and lynch this scum BH he has so much content and it all points one way On July 18 2012 11:33 rastaban wrote: I like the BH LYnch better but I could go for lymching Austin as well mainly because the only defense for him is it's so scummy scum wouldn't do it. I have mis-lynched gonzaw before and this case on him doesn't seem that strong. That said his reaction is quite different than in bang bang so I would take over a nolynch if we can't get BH or Austin stung up. On July 18 2012 12:32 rastaban wrote:On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote: I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful I see u are on MZ. Gonzaw and mh are our leading candidates and it looks like I agree to give gonzaw a bit more time. Will u switch to MH? On July 18 2012 12:57 rastaban wrote: Sorry guys but I have to head to bed. I think the momentum is swinging back to BH so I will leave my vote where it is. The last post really betrays rastaban’s strategy. He “agrees” with the every case that was brought up d1 however he sticks with BH because that’s where the momentum is. This just screams scum trying to fit in. He’s not going to argue hard for the BH lynch, he won’t stick his neck out by switching to another candidate but he’ll agree with the argument against that person just to be in agreement. Finally, he chooses to go with BH because it’s the one that seems the least controversial. This may not be a very elegant post but it should get the point across and I need sleep. I’ll be happy to answer any questions when I wake up. tl;dr rastaban needs to die at some point. I'd like to give this some love. I started off reading it sceptically but at the end I was down with it. Meapak demonstrates in rastaban what I would classify as the classic mafia mindset in this setup - not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not drawing attention to yourself with dissent. rastaban this game is classic mafia.
...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason.
tl:dr -
- Blazinghand is Mafia
- I think marvellosity and layabout are suspicious based on my reread.
- I do not have a nuke-block.
- Skidoosh.
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On July 20 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic. Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet. The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions. But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill.So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill. Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know. So right now I'm looking at something like... Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting: Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 17 2012 07:52 Katina wrote:On July 17 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol @ Kurumi trying to insinuate that mafia know who town are in this setup (hint: they don't)
The desperate flailings and failings of a caught scum, too funny.
Also marv is a good scumhunter, an honorable scumhunter, let no harm befall him. Marv if you're town don't go afk, just ignore Kurumi. You can help me and sandro and whoever else is on town side. I'm still reading, but thoughts to come in a few hours after my lab.
Barring Kurumi I'd like to hear who Katina, Palmar, sandro, and syllo would kill right now. Palmar mostly. Wouldn't mind syllo, or Mattchew. <3 I believe you're the only one who even acknowledged my question. I agree with all three kills but I'd rank them differently. Wouldn't mind killing Blazingscum and layabout too, they're all scum. All scum, god damn them. Oh and Wiggles is AFK. Just thought I'd throw that out there, he hasn't posted yet. Possibly rolled scum again, the bastard. OH and BM is afk too. Wtf? Well hell, half the players are afk. W/e. Let's focus on one player first: Shit that makes layabout scummy:Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town. In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon. i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic. Kurumi is going to die at the end of the day. Thus, we should kill someone else. Let's kill this guy for now. Make the bad man fly. ##unvote ##vote layabout Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote:On July 19 2012 18:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Alright guys let’s talk rastaban. The first thing that caught my eye was, conveniently, his first post so let’s start there. On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote:Caught up now, thoughts so far: First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. This post is a whole lot of fluff. The game has been going on for a while when he makes this and there’s plenty to discuss however rastaban is more comfortable discussing the setup. This is a red flag, this type of post is something you make right after the game starts, not when the game has been going on and there are actual issues that can be addressed. To continue with this theme we have posts like this: On July 17 2012 00:19 rastaban wrote: Wait I just realized it said "one" of them in those posts. I had thought they sent out a message to all their followers at once, but it means instead of the above example, at most the high up, could tell one other person to try and save him. That means only 2 scum detractors at most from any lynch today Again, it’s just talking about the setup instead of actually scumhunting. Let’s look at the next two posts together: On July 17 2012 01:37 rastaban wrote: @BH What is this??? the only way someone could vote you is if they are scum, do you really believe you are that town? Your latest post is so crazy I almost think it is a joke. On July 17 2012 03:54 rastaban wrote: VE both games I have played with you you pushed someone incredibly hard day 1, why do you want to do a random lynch, cant you find any scum this time? Both these posts serve no purpose. Does rastaban think either of these two are scummy? Who knows. He says that BH is so crazy he almost thinks it’s a joke but gives us no read. Similarly with VE, he mentions how VE’s behavior is different than what he’s observed but gives no read. After a nice little wagon has built up on BH, rastaban finally feels confident calling for someone’s death: On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote: I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go.
As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake.
##vote blazinghand He like the case on BH better than the one on me but spends most of the post talking about something other than his reasons for voting BH. Ultimately, rastaban’s vote seems like it is available to whichever candidate is currently the flavor of the hour: On July 17 2012 13:29 rastaban wrote: Sylo also looks like a good target, and while his actions are Scummy I recommend the Ace method, when two people both look like scum start by lynching the player you have more content on. We can give Sylo till tomorrow to improve if need be, and lynch this scum BH he has so much content and it all points one way On July 18 2012 11:33 rastaban wrote: I like the BH LYnch better but I could go for lymching Austin as well mainly because the only defense for him is it's so scummy scum wouldn't do it. I have mis-lynched gonzaw before and this case on him doesn't seem that strong. That said his reaction is quite different than in bang bang so I would take over a nolynch if we can't get BH or Austin stung up. On July 18 2012 12:32 rastaban wrote:On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote: I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful I see u are on MZ. Gonzaw and mh are our leading candidates and it looks like I agree to give gonzaw a bit more time. Will u switch to MH? On July 18 2012 12:57 rastaban wrote: Sorry guys but I have to head to bed. I think the momentum is swinging back to BH so I will leave my vote where it is. The last post really betrays rastaban’s strategy. He “agrees” with the every case that was brought up d1 however he sticks with BH because that’s where the momentum is. This just screams scum trying to fit in. He’s not going to argue hard for the BH lynch, he won’t stick his neck out by switching to another candidate but he’ll agree with the argument against that person just to be in agreement. Finally, he chooses to go with BH because it’s the one that seems the least controversial. This may not be a very elegant post but it should get the point across and I need sleep. I’ll be happy to answer any questions when I wake up. tl;dr rastaban needs to die at some point. I'd like to give this some love. I started off reading it sceptically but at the end I was down with it. Meapak demonstrates in rastaban what I would classify as the classic mafia mindset in this setup - not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not drawing attention to yourself with dissent. rastaban this game is classic mafia. ...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason.tl:dr - - Blazinghand is Mafia
- I think marvellosity and layabout are suspicious based on my reread.
- I do not have a nuke-block.
- Skidoosh.
You figured out my clue! Did you read my post before posting this?
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oh wait, you did not mention the fact that blazing hand does not have a block ability.
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No, my assumption is that BH never had the ability to block a nuke. IMO nothing stops a nuke. Otherwise it's like....just a vig shot.
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On July 20 2012 11:40 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 11:38 rastaban wrote:On July 20 2012 11:30 Katina wrote: VE: Then we will lynch Zealos D3, honey. That doesn't mean the town has to run all over the place with their votes. The Mafia aren't going anywhere, we have to lynch them one at a time.
Not knowing what other powers scum have is not something we should be focusing on right now. That's not going to make them suddenly pop into our minds. We will find out like we always do and that's when they use it. It's impossible to know anything before hand. Kurumi has already used his power when he nuked RebithOfLegend. I understand that Zealos might have a power too but I think that's farfetched considering the amount of nukes and blocks going off D1. Right now we should keep our votes on Kurumi and continue to make cases on others that are scummy then decide who our D3 lynch should be when night falls and Kurumi's alignment is revealed. Or Zealos could be an executive. And we start crumbling their infrastructure a day early. We know K isnt exec, and doesn't have a nuke today. Do you know what blazinghand and VE have in common? They both said ##block. PS: blazinghand is bad at blocking. So, what does that make of VE? This is the post I was referring too. Glad you told the true.
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On July 20 2012 13:55 VisceraEyes wrote: No, my assumption is that BH never had the ability to block a nuke. IMO nothing stops a nuke. Otherwise it's like....just a vig shot. Let's say he did not have the ability to stop my over abilities besides shooting off fake nukes..
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Hmmm VE, I think I understand Bugs's point about BH's block better now. It took a day but I see where he is coming from, thanks for the reiteration.
Can you explain how the mechanic's link to BH being scum? It seems like you are saying bugs got shot for a reason (his reads I presume) and that because he was suspicious of BH, his death implicates BH. Is that right?
BH claimed block before you right?
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On July 20 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic. Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet. The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions. But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill.So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill. Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know. So right now I'm looking at something like... Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting: Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:On July 17 2012 07:52 Katina wrote:On July 17 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol @ Kurumi trying to insinuate that mafia know who town are in this setup (hint: they don't)
The desperate flailings and failings of a caught scum, too funny.
Also marv is a good scumhunter, an honorable scumhunter, let no harm befall him. Marv if you're town don't go afk, just ignore Kurumi. You can help me and sandro and whoever else is on town side. I'm still reading, but thoughts to come in a few hours after my lab.
Barring Kurumi I'd like to hear who Katina, Palmar, sandro, and syllo would kill right now. Palmar mostly. Wouldn't mind syllo, or Mattchew. <3 I believe you're the only one who even acknowledged my question. I agree with all three kills but I'd rank them differently. Wouldn't mind killing Blazingscum and layabout too, they're all scum. All scum, god damn them. Oh and Wiggles is AFK. Just thought I'd throw that out there, he hasn't posted yet. Possibly rolled scum again, the bastard. OH and BM is afk too. Wtf? Well hell, half the players are afk. W/e. Let's focus on one player first: Shit that makes layabout scummy:Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town. In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon. i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic. Kurumi is going to die at the end of the day. Thus, we should kill someone else. Let's kill this guy for now. Make the bad man fly. ##unvote ##vote layabout Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote:On July 19 2012 18:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Alright guys let’s talk rastaban. The first thing that caught my eye was, conveniently, his first post so let’s start there. On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote:Caught up now, thoughts so far: First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. This post is a whole lot of fluff. The game has been going on for a while when he makes this and there’s plenty to discuss however rastaban is more comfortable discussing the setup. This is a red flag, this type of post is something you make right after the game starts, not when the game has been going on and there are actual issues that can be addressed. To continue with this theme we have posts like this: On July 17 2012 00:19 rastaban wrote: Wait I just realized it said "one" of them in those posts. I had thought they sent out a message to all their followers at once, but it means instead of the above example, at most the high up, could tell one other person to try and save him. That means only 2 scum detractors at most from any lynch today Again, it’s just talking about the setup instead of actually scumhunting. Let’s look at the next two posts together: On July 17 2012 01:37 rastaban wrote: @BH What is this??? the only way someone could vote you is if they are scum, do you really believe you are that town? Your latest post is so crazy I almost think it is a joke. On July 17 2012 03:54 rastaban wrote: VE both games I have played with you you pushed someone incredibly hard day 1, why do you want to do a random lynch, cant you find any scum this time? Both these posts serve no purpose. Does rastaban think either of these two are scummy? Who knows. He says that BH is so crazy he almost thinks it’s a joke but gives us no read. Similarly with VE, he mentions how VE’s behavior is different than what he’s observed but gives no read. After a nice little wagon has built up on BH, rastaban finally feels confident calling for someone’s death: On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote: I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go.
As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake.
##vote blazinghand He like the case on BH better than the one on me but spends most of the post talking about something other than his reasons for voting BH. Ultimately, rastaban’s vote seems like it is available to whichever candidate is currently the flavor of the hour: On July 17 2012 13:29 rastaban wrote: Sylo also looks like a good target, and while his actions are Scummy I recommend the Ace method, when two people both look like scum start by lynching the player you have more content on. We can give Sylo till tomorrow to improve if need be, and lynch this scum BH he has so much content and it all points one way On July 18 2012 11:33 rastaban wrote: I like the BH LYnch better but I could go for lymching Austin as well mainly because the only defense for him is it's so scummy scum wouldn't do it. I have mis-lynched gonzaw before and this case on him doesn't seem that strong. That said his reaction is quite different than in bang bang so I would take over a nolynch if we can't get BH or Austin stung up. On July 18 2012 12:32 rastaban wrote:On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote: I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful I see u are on MZ. Gonzaw and mh are our leading candidates and it looks like I agree to give gonzaw a bit more time. Will u switch to MH? On July 18 2012 12:57 rastaban wrote: Sorry guys but I have to head to bed. I think the momentum is swinging back to BH so I will leave my vote where it is. The last post really betrays rastaban’s strategy. He “agrees” with the every case that was brought up d1 however he sticks with BH because that’s where the momentum is. This just screams scum trying to fit in. He’s not going to argue hard for the BH lynch, he won’t stick his neck out by switching to another candidate but he’ll agree with the argument against that person just to be in agreement. Finally, he chooses to go with BH because it’s the one that seems the least controversial. This may not be a very elegant post but it should get the point across and I need sleep. I’ll be happy to answer any questions when I wake up. tl;dr rastaban needs to die at some point. I'd like to give this some love. I started off reading it sceptically but at the end I was down with it. Meapak demonstrates in rastaban what I would classify as the classic mafia mindset in this setup - not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not drawing attention to yourself with dissent. rastaban this game is classic mafia. ...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason.tl:dr - - Blazinghand is Mafia
- I think marvellosity and layabout are suspicious based on my reread.
- I do not have a nuke-block.
- Skidoosh.
I agree with most of this, however I don't think Kurumi is mafia if this is the case. Why would mafia have both the real nuke and the only blocker... Unless host is messing with us. If Kurumi flips blue this lynch then I think this case is much stronger.
Also, and this is possibly reading too much from nothing but Kurumi outed from his other mafia sign up to recollect for a bit. That is a seems like like town unhappy that they are being ignored, not scum getting caught but just my 2 cents.
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Oh yeah I read that. Figured you were still just being Chezinu. Honestly I thought it was painfully obvious I was joking about the block - I posted an MSPaint picture with it that BH drew for God's sake.
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