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+ Show Spoiler [Marvellosity's case] +On June 26 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote::/ I've swung around again. I really think VE is scum, or actually quite possibly SK. I'm making my town tell on his emotion to a null tell. He proved in LI he can get all 'emotional' as scum. Firstly I just can't get over the way he pushed me. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again!
Marv, your response? Ok, so we've established he thinks I'm totes amazing scummer. It makes absolutely no sense to me how he thinks someone as good at scumplay as I am would get myself into this situation. xscsc summarised it quite nicely: Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 22:17 xsksc wrote:
Again, I'm gonna have to disagree with my predecessor here. People, including him, were pointing out that the way that you answered the question, and the argument following it, didn't make sense for a townie. However, it really doesn't make sense for scum either. Any remotely decent scum player is going to put 10x the thought into how they answer questions regarding their alignment and would never have answered that way, it draws wayyyyy too much negative attention, for no gain. I don't think you handled it the best way, but I think people need to realise that a bad play does not equal scum.
This is the crux of it, and xcksc hasn't even seen my scumplay, but he understands. Yet VE who saw me trash town in LIV and LV as scum does not see it. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't underestimate you, which is why I know scumMarv wouldn't think twice about side-stepping the question. Take it as a compliment, not an affront. This doesn't add up. Clearly sidestepping Matt's question WAS NOT the correct scumplay. Just look at what's happened. There's a mental disconnect going on. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote: There are differences marv. For instance, townMarv is interested in finding scum. scumMarv is interested in lynching townies.
Also, both townMarv and scumMarv are good enough to realize that I'm very obviously town in this game, so the fact that you're calling me "dodgy" still (not scummy, not scum, not suspicious, not suspect....."dodgy") just confirms that you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug* First paragraph is just trite, it says nothing. He's just explaining the wincon for a townie and scummer. I commented before on the 2nd part. Calling me out for finding him scummy, calling himself town. It's manipulative. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such.
Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does. When I accused him before, I wasn't calling him scum because I was town. I'd said I had the perspective of 100% knowing I was town that others did not. I simply did not say he was scum because he was accusing me. Twisted my words. On the day 1 lynch: Realising he's not gonna get me through, he turns his attention to Zentor. Subsequently: Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote: risk do you think that scum only lurk? Because you're really only pushing people who aren't likely to push back. :/
Marv do your own meta research.
I'm also feeling strange about the ease of this lynch. I also don't want to lynch Zentor. Can we lynch either risk or prpl? maybe Marv? This is where it all gets odd. He doesn't want to lynch Zentor, and lists 3 other people. Who doesn't he name? The other leading candidiate, rastaban. He is realistically the only alternative, but nothing. Compare - slOosh was trying really hard to get people to switch from Zentor to rastaban, but VE? nothing. Let's see if VE ever talks about rastaban: Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Snarfs Yeah, I'm null on rasta. He looks pretty townie to me too, but to be fair I've only skimmed the cases on him. I'll go read them in earnest and let you know what I think. This is it. Nothing else. He never lets us know what he thinks of the alternative lynch candidate, despite promising to, and despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor. It's a half-assed, not-real attempt. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually prpl, that post was good. I'm cool with a Zeph lynch if we can make that happen. Except VE never tries to make ANYTHING happen. He says this and disappears.
I also feel like his pushing of prplhz is a sham. He came straight from LV where two townies pushed hard for a policy lynch on a player they disliked. He should know this isn't a scumtell. But it looks good to push someone on wanting a policy lynch like that, doesn't it? Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do. I think VE is scum (or SK :D) I don't see how the first section of your case has anything to do with VE being scum. You acted scummy by not answering Mattchew's question straight. The way I see it, you have no reason whatsoever to not answer the question as honestly and precise as you can as town. Refusing to answer the question properly is anti-town, and anti-town play is something that favours scum, regardless of your explanation that you play scummier as town. Your explanation that it wasn't the correct scum play does not satisfy me. You couldn't know beforehand which option (answering the question properly/avoiding it) would benefit you more, as explaining exactly how you play as scum can also be a huge detriment to your team. So, there are two possibilities:
1) You're an anti-town acting townie. 2) You're scum who didn't think you'd catch this much shit for not answering his question.
Irrespective of which explanation is the more likely one, I don't see how VE pressuring you for this is incriminating at all. It's more of a town tell to me.
Regarding the part where he says that you are OMGUSing, he does twist your words (but only a little). I don't think it says much. What you are saying in your post is akin to OMGUSing, but with a bit more reasoning behind it. This post by VE is a null tell.
I do think you make a fair point with the last part of your case. VE voting to lynch Zentor in spite of him saying that he doesn't want to lynch him is scummy. He has given his explanation on this, saying that he was busy doing IRL stuff and didn't have the time to make an effort to try to sway the lynch (the only other viable target without some serious pushing was rastaban). I don't like IRL-excuses, but I don't think that this point alone is enough to warrant a VE lynch.
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I decided to not go to sleep and I went and made some breakfast instead. I'll read and repsond to Probulous case in a bit.
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So I have three suspects in my list for scum/sk players.
Those three (in order of how I would like them lynched/killed) are Rastaban, Prplhz and marvellosity
My First Suspect is Rastaban.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2012 04:10 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote: Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations. He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? (big post by post case on Risk.Nuke that I am not quoting) Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote: When I review MrZentor I see someone who hasn't contributed much, which, while scummy, isn't enough to lynch yet in my opinion.,Especially when he commits to delivering something tomorrow. I have seen players like Foolishness say the same thing so I am inclined to give him till tomorrow before I make my Judgment on him.
This all feels extremely middle of the road, I am ready to jump on a bandwagon but don't want to commit to anything scum play. He also contradicts himself about the talks about Marv, then contradicts his we have 48 hours post, by posting a case that he is pretty deadset on, about risk.nuke. Overall I just feel like Rastaban's posting has been flaky and his case on Risk is bad. To answer his question to the thread, I read his vote switch that he was not confident in a Marv lynch, and that he wanted to pressure a lurker with no content. Also, his first 30ish hour case doesn't take into account that Risk.nuke has played many many games before ##Vote: rastaban
On June 26 2012 03:43 rastaban wrote: @Snarfs
But notice how even after he says to remove both of them he follows up with "marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town." which leaves it open for a future vote and still throws suspicion on marv. As for removing VE from the lynch pool, marvs recent vote on VE was the first this whole game. Despite the back and forth it was only ever 1 way, VE was not in any danger of being lyched at any point so all he really states is: don't vote marv yet, but he is a bit scummy.
Also a lot of people had come out in defense of marv by that point saying we need to hold off on lynching him. If this had been the one to help get the votes off marv I would be more inclined to think it town aligned but as it is, it just seems regurgitated to me.
He thinks marv is scummy but did not want to vote for him day 1? That's perfectly reasonable play.
On June 26 2012 10:21 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 10:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 26 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: He wants to know why in an effort to establish your townieness via the method you chose, you answered rashly without thinking when the point of the exercise was to honestly answer the question so you can be judged either scum or town right then. There's not a lot else I can say on the matter by this stage. If that's really enough to lynch me then whatever. I hate that there are so many players who basically haven't contributed this cycle. Where is Matt and his promised reads? Where are Shraft and Snarfs? Why is rastaban always so irrelevant? Why does risk who always has an opinion not have an opinion? Hey I am not sure what you want from me, since day one I have had a town read on both you and VE. I think Risk is scum (you admit hasn't contributed). I agree a lot of people are very absent and need to get posting so we can see what side they are on. I find this tone (throughout the game) when in conversation with Marv to be strange. He has not ever given a reason for thinking Marv or VE is town, yet constantly lumps them together as townies arguing.
All in all, I find the tone of Rastaban's posts to be hesitant and a little off. I find that his lumping of townreads on players suspicious, and he has never really responded to a single case brought up. Instead he has just safely tunneled his forced case on Risk.
I want scum Rastaban dead. He barely even defends himself even though he was extremely close to being lynched which shows me he's more scum than bad town (for you prob... <3)
##vote Rastaban
Next up we have Prplhz
I have already posted my thoughts on his timing of his Zeph case. While I was wrong about MrZ being his scum teammate, that hasn't dropped my suspicions. He posted a case, when it had no chance of actually impacting anything. I can't see a reason a townie would do this. It is obviously not going to get the attention he should want it to receive and all it provides him with is the ability to later on say I've been making cases all game. He hasn't posted about Zeph since that day ended. I think enough time has been given to say WTF? and then he goes and posts this...
On June 26 2012 09:56 prplhz wrote: VisceraEyes
marvellosity
How do you feel about risk.nuke? Like is Risk now your #1 target too now? Where did his suspicions of Zeph go? Why isn't he trying to push his case on him that he wanted to lynch me for calling him out on the weird timing? Why can't I equate almost anything he has done with a Town Agenda?
Finally we have Marv.
I actually should maybe color Marv black, because I think his play just feels very off. I think I lean him being the SK more than I do him being scum. Either way he eventually needs a noose. His filter is long and fluffy. A ton of arguing with VE but even more deflecting of actual answers... instead he resorts to inane arguments full of WIFOM and fallacys, like in all these filter enhancing posts. Can someone pick me out anything pro-town from these?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. On June 22 2012 07:30 marvellosity wrote: incorrect answer On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote: lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no?
No. On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. here's a clue count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation profit On June 22 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote: lol, ok. On June 22 2012 09:39 marvellosity wrote: VE, you're so tedious sometimes. On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote: here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta . You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote: Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote: a) because i'm unafraid b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed On June 22 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote: wrong way of looking at it Prob
if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting On June 22 2012 10:13 marvellosity wrote: it means you're a very special boy <3 On June 22 2012 10:20 marvellosity wrote: who knew being the centre of attention was so tiring?! gosh On June 22 2012 10:39 marvellosity wrote: we could dance? On June 22 2012 10:43 marvellosity wrote: haha me too ^^ On June 22 2012 18:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote: Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate What an exceptionally stupid thing to say, well done. On June 22 2012 23:05 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote: I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play. I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought. On June 23 2012 07:15 marvellosity wrote: 'fabricated some fantasy'
your posts are just littered with insidious phrases like this. On June 23 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote: If you're trying to figure shit out, you're doing a fucking awful job of it. On June 24 2012 03:29 marvellosity wrote: No, I'm just arrogant and sarcastic.
But it's not the case. stopping cause the point is made and this is getting tedious.
This alongside his flip-flopping on VE, which I think is less likely then the usual confident (he called himself arrogant) town Marv.
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@ Mattchew "He thinks marv is scummy but did not want to vote for him day 1? That's perfectly reasonable play." Guess what Zentor was much scummier than Marv day one, which you yourself must have thought or you wouldn't have voted him as well. At the time I posted that statement we were early in day one and people were starting to bandwagon marv before we could evaluate everyone. SO yeah it was reasonable, jumping on the wagon is what wouldn't have been reasonable.
Isn't it obvious why VE is town, we have the only person voting for VE claiming he was was the most likely mafia shot and others saying he is the towniest of the town.
I don't know about marv yet, I felt he seemed town yesterday as he spent the whole time fending so I never got a chance to see much from him. His actions today don't feel mafia to me, His sudden switch on VE would obviously put him under scrutiny but he still did it, that is something a town player would be more willing to do than a mafia.
Risk is my Number one read and I am looking through the filters of some of the other players to find possible scum. I will look through prplhz again
That said why are you posting 3 different people with miniature cases? I would much prefer an actual full case on someone rather than cherry picking an item or two on three different players. Everyone makes small decisions that isolated can make them look scummy, it is finding a trail of them to show it wasn't just a single bad play that helps us make an informed decision.
@Probulous, didn't get to review your case as well as I wanted to, and I need to get off for a bit but I will look back over it in case I am reading marv wrong in the morning and give you my thoughts.
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On June 26 2012 12:50 rastaban wrote: @ Mattchew "He thinks marv is scummy but did not want to vote for him day 1? That's perfectly reasonable play." Guess what Zentor was much scummier than Marv day one, which you yourself must have thought or you wouldn't have voted him as well. At the time I posted that statement we were early in day one and people were starting to bandwagon marv before we could evaluate everyone. SO yeah it was reasonable, jumping on the wagon is what wouldn't have been reasonable.
Isn't it obvious why VE is town, we have the only person voting for VE claiming he was was the most likely mafia shot and others saying he is the towniest of the town.
I don't know about marv yet, I felt he seemed town yesterday as he spent the whole time fending so I never got a chance to see much from him. His actions today don't feel mafia to me, His sudden switch on VE would obviously put him under scrutiny but he still did it, that is something a town player would be more willing to do than a mafia.
Risk is my Number one read and I am looking through the filters of some of the other players to find possible scum. I will look through prplhz again
That said why are you posting 3 different people with miniature cases? I would much prefer an actual full case on someone rather than cherry picking an item or two on three different players. Everyone makes small decisions that isolated can make them look scummy, it is finding a trail of them to show it wasn't just a single bad play that helps us make an informed decision.
@Probulous, didn't get to review your case as well as I wanted to, and I need to get off for a bit but I will look back over it in case I am reading marv wrong in the morning and give you my thoughts.
I like that you called them mini-cases. Since when did length have anything to do with content and finding scum
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+ Show Spoiler [Probulous' case] +On June 26 2012 11:42 Probulous wrote:marvellosity Marvel started this game in an open manner by offering to answer any question asked of him but he was suprised by Mattchew's question and responded rashly. This in itself is not a scum tell, an off balance townie could do the same. But his subsequent insistence on not responding is damning in my eyes. + Show Spoiler [Marvs initial reaction] +On June 22 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:19 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now... :/ Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. TOWNGod, that was easy. Who's next? .........what kind of questions? Obviously that's what I meant marvel LOL well, that part of the figuring out bit I thought I'd leave to you. On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now... :/ Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote: lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no? No. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situationprofit This is the key quote and one I keep coming back to. He has turned his initial confused response into a positive proof he is town. Why? This was very early day 1, VE had labelled him scum but VE always does this early and changes his position regularly. The simplest way to clear your name would be actually answer the question. Instead he uses the fact that he is acting scummy to try and clear his name, thus avoiding the work. Again, I can see a flustered scum here not sure how to respond so early in the game to this kind of pressure. So he decides to try and use that pressure to clear his name rather than doing the hard work and answer the question. It isn't easy playing a different meta than you are used to so if he could deflect the question he could continue to play his normal game. I am not marvellosity so I can't say whether he would respond the same way if he were scum or if he were scum, simply because I think he was caught off guard. All I can do is compare him to what I would expect a town or scum would do. I would expect a townie to say something like "Shit that's a hard question, give me some time to think about it" if he was thrown off balance. + Show Spoiler [My first response to Marv] +On June 22 2012 08:40 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Votes = Tools. Not going over this again this game. Fair enough, I forgot who I was asking. You did back off Marv pretty quickly though. Why? I mean this is terrible and you pointed it out Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote: Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. SCUM Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. He still hasn't responded adequately. He is around note Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:17 marvellosity wrote: VE, prplhz last played with Zentor in WoF.
Enough said really. But is he isn't bothering to actually answer Mattchew's question. So yeah, why the let up? Marv, I want that alimony! Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote: Probey, you'll have to get in touch with my lawyer. And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet. By now he is adamant that he won't respond to the question. It has not become a case of being flustered but a concious decision. When I join in the questioning, he dismisses me. He fobs me off with a "go read the thread" response. This attitude of not wanting to contribute and making others do the work is scummy. It's sarcastic and designed to rile me up. He did a similar thing to VE. Why would you respond in this manner if you were town? The tone is designed to piss people off. Remember marvel has chosen to act this way. He believes that by playing a scummy game he can appear town. That is his whole exlpanation at this point, so if he is scum it makes sense to piss people off. He can create confusion and a massive shitfest which ruins day 1. He clearly doesn't think he will get lynched, he say so later. VE, picks up on the tone issue in his next post. + Show Spoiler [VE] +On June 22 2012 08:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah let's lynch marv. Prob you down? ##Vote: marvellosity Hubris does NOT become you sir. and I point out the ridiculousness of not answering the question + Show Spoiler [Probulous] +On June 22 2012 08:54 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote: Probey, you'll have to get in touch with my lawyer.
And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet. Show nested quote +count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation Why are you so cryptic? It's your job to prove you're town so you should want to provide information to us. ##Vote marvellosityThis time it's personal@Mattchew, you have nothing to say By now Marv's play is clear, refuse to answer clearly and then use his scummy play as an excuse. He has already gained two votes which would normally force a townie to actually contribute but he doesn't. Why? because this is his plan. He wants to look scummy and then go "hey look I always look scummy as town". Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote: it's not cryptic, it's blindingly fucking obvious. jesus christ Why the indignation here? Why is he is pissed off at both VE and myself for not realising that he is town because he looks like scum. It is a ridiculous premise so of course we want further explanantion. Then VE comes up with the defensive nature of marvel's posting which marvel used as his defense. the way I read this, VE is simply stating that Marv is using his defensive posting as an excuse for palying scummy. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? On June 22 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote: I'm supposed to talk about someone else in my defence?
And in the nested quote it states quite clearly there weren't any accusations...
that's twice this game now you've misrepresented something, wilfully or not. i'm watching you Whether there are accusations or not is irrelevant. The point is you were using your defensive behaviour as a way to prove you're town. We cannot know this is true, there is no way of verifying it. Just because you were defensive in your last townie game does not mean if you are defensive here you are townie. ESPECIALLY if you use that as your defense. Again, surely a townie would just answer the original question clearly and transparently at this point. I mean both VE and myself were "obviously mistaken", but you didn't bother to clear that up did you? No the confusion was good, it was serving its purpose. + Show Spoiler [back and forth] +On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote: here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation
profit Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean.
Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why? On June 22 2012 09:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean.
Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why? one was a defence, one was not. do you see yet? i didn't encourage people to leave the thread to read other games. i said i never said anything scummy in LV and I pointed out explicitly the scummy thing I was pressured for in magic. the whole original question was on meta, and now you're pushing me for defending on meta? really? I think VE got sidetracked here. Marv using meta is not a problem. As he states, the question was about meta. The point is that stating that "when you look scummy you are town" is not a useful use of meta. It doesn't answer the question and allows you to just refuse to answer. A useful meta point would be "when I am scum I tend to ..." not when I am scum I look like town. Anyway, I want you to note that he has now created a case against VE based on him being misrepresented twice. This will come up later. This is a pretty good post from VE which is clearer than his previous ones. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote: here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta. You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. The point being, answer the original question clearly and transparently if you don't want people to misunderstand your reply. At this point it is clear that marv has achieved a few things. He has the thread focused on him, he looks scummy but is using this to try and prove he is town, he has created some suspicion on VE. So I call him out on it. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote: @Marv, do you think VE is scum? I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet. Which is a nothing answer. I guess that is fair enough at this point. This next post is another key one. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote: here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta . You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote: Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. So now the plan becomes clear. He was caught off guard early and made a response he would not normally make as either town or scum, but here he is saying the he would avoid it like the plague is he were mafia. But apparently not as town? It makes less sense from a town perspective to not answer a straight up question than it does from a mafia point of view. Mafia get away with causing a shitstorm knowing they are unlikely to be lynched. Why? Because he can fall back on his meta showing that he is careful as mafia. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote: Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote: See, the funny part is that you could ask yourself the same question. Why would you put yourself in this situation as town? It doesn't make any fucking sense. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote: a) because i'm unafraid b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed Here we have the reveal that this was all a townie plan by Marvel to gain information on those pushing him. Really, well what has he gained so far? That VE may or may not be scum...That's it. In the process he has caused the whole thread to be entirely focused on him. Worse he doesn't regret it. He thinks it is a good idea. At this point we have had no other cases presented, no other scumhunting. Nothing. How is that a positive for town? Anyway I outline my position here + Show Spoiler [probulous position] +On June 22 2012 09:58 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote: @Marv, do you think VE is scum? I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet. See here is what I don't understand. - Mattchew asks you a simple question about what is different between your scum and your town play.
- You say it's a good question (it is actually) and then you don't answer.
- You get pushed to answer and you refer briefly to differences between the openings of two games (one town, one mafia). But you don't explicitly state what the difference are, or how they help us determine your alignment. To me it seems like an attempt to brush off the question and move onto other "more important" things.
- Then when other people start pushing you, you get all snarky which just makes me go
- You tell VE to go read the games but when he comes back with his response you say he is misrepresenting you but you don't think he is scum.
Why haven't you answered the original question? You admitted it's a good question, you claim VE is misrepresenting you but isn't scum so surely the best way to clear your name would be to outline exactly what you intended when you briefly referenced those games. I mean you seem to be saying that VE is mistaken but don't bother to actually take the time to thorughly correct the mistake. Why? Because you don't want to answer the question. Townies want to provide data and clarity and you just wanted to move onto other things. Has Matt just left the thread then? >< On June 22 2012 10:17 Probulous wrote:1) You proactively ask people to question you so you can prove your alignment.Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote: you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. 2) Then you dilberately obfuscate and avoid answering the questionShow nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote: Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote: lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no? No. 3)You explain that this was not a mistake but instead part of an elaborate plan to do something no scum would do and so therefore prove you are townShow nested quote +On June 22 2012 10:05 marvellosity wrote: "The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum." If you are town, you are saying that you deliberately avoided answering Mattchew to cause a shitstorm to prove you're town? You don't say it was a mistake, or a joke but rather a calculated plan. You give yourself too little credit Marv. I think you're scum who tried to joke off a difficult question and didn't expect people to latch onto it. Now you are backpedalling as fast as you can. To which I get this enlightening response Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote: wrong way of looking at it Prob if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting WHY? Better yet why would you not do this as town. Especially after everyone starting piling onto you. Saying you are careful as scum is not a perfect defense that excuses you from participating. Note up till now he has provided nothing else. He hasn't pushed a case or done anything of value except defend himself with I am smart as scum so I wouldn't do that. I give you the perfect marvel plan. Play badly and then claim you have perfect scum play so you cannot be scum. TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia. ##Vote marvellosity
The case is has a clear focal point and is so long, so I'll just address it all at once rather than commenting each section. If you want elaboration on some point, just tell me and I'll comment on it when I am not half-asleep.
I outlined in my previous post that I think his insistence to not answer is anti-town. As you pointed out, it is even scummier when he tries to turn it into a proof that he is town. The town way to deal with the situation would be to answer as well as you could, if not initially, then at least once you realise that you're attracting suspicion and shifting the focus away from productive discussion. I just don't see the town motivation behind marv's course of action, and I think that your case makes sense.
##Vote marvellosity
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I don't want to regurgitate a bunch of opinions others have stated so I'll try to be concise in summarizing my own feelings.
- I agree that marv's case on VE was entirely a stretch. To reference his conclusion:
On June 26 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do. - It's all WIFOM for us to guess what you would do as scum - You're exaggerating to say that he twists your words - Yes, he never talks about rastaban, but that is a null tell - both scum and town can get busy and/or forget to respond to certain things - He pushes you and prplhz and at least mentions his suspicions of zephir, plus you're clearly his biggest scum read
On June 26 2012 11:42 Probulous wrote:marvellosity [--snip--] TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia. ##Vote marvellosity - Why would town continue to be vague and confusing in their responses after seeing that people thought it was scummy?
I have to agree with Probulous's case here and Shraft's own recently posted opinions. marv consciously played an anti-town day 1 and I just don't believe that he would do that as town after being mislynched so recently in a similar game.
##Vote marvellosity
@Mattchew: You list marv as one of your scum reads; yet for some reason you think that rastaban is a better lynch today? You even say that "Either way [marv] eventually needs a noose." So why bother prolonging this if you're that sure he needs to hang? Protecting your scumbuddy?
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On June 26 2012 03:43 rastaban wrote: @Snarfs
But notice how even after he says to remove both of them he follows up with "marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town." which leaves it open for a future vote and still throws suspicion on marv. As for removing VE from the lynch pool, marvs recent vote on VE was the first this whole game. Despite the back and forth it was only ever 1 way, VE was not in any danger of being lyched at any point so all he really states is: don't vote marv yet, but he is a bit scummy.
Also a lot of people had come out in defense of marv by that point saying we need to hold off on lynching him. If this had been the one to help get the votes off marv I would be more inclined to think it town aligned but as it is, it just seems regurgitated to me.
I think I might have had the timings wrong on that one. For some reason I thought that both VE and marv were viable candidates at that time so if risk.nuke wanted to move the vote one way or the other he could have at least attempted to do so. Looking back though, you're right, VE was never really a candidate.
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I'm too lazy to vote-count, but it doesn't look good for marvel. Does anyone have anything to say in defense of marvel?
For my part, I have to admit that his poor play this game doesn't make sense to me from any perspective. Maybe Matt's right, maybe he's SK or something...but I just can't bring myself to think that he's town. I've tried.
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On June 25 2012 08:07 Probulous wrote: If a person is jailed are they notified? If so, is the notification the same as if they have been roleblocked?
On June 26 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote: Some of you have missed my reasoning for this post. Since we had two day posts with different night actions I wanted to see if I could glean some information from reactions between those two posts. Remember scum and the SK would be expecting night kills. If I was an SK and my shot didn't go through I would know I had been roleblocked but with no notification. Hence I would be completely confused, expecially given the shot was likely Zephirdd (explained previously). So I would have to assume that either the host got the night stuff mixed up, or they forgot to send me my PM, or I don't get a notification of a blocked hit. There would be a big chance that someone roleblocked me preventing my kill and that could be town or mafia, so coming out and saying anything about the SK would be risky. Especially immediately after the night. No I would expect the SK to be much more cautious after possibly being blocked, hence my statement.
Anyone else notice this? Looks like Prob slipped and claimed SK.
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Oh wait, he claimed being roleblocked.
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If marv flips SK, it's going to open a whole new can of worms...because scum are able to scumhunt when there's an SK involved in the game - so that means that anyone who's been on marvel's case since early on gets, literally, zero town-cred from marvel's flip. Especially myself.
@Mattchew i have to concur with Snarfs at this point - why do you feel rastaban is "a better lynch" when there's already an established wagon on marvel? If marvel is one of your scumreads and there's a wagon on him, that should make him "a better lynch" , no?
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ROFL, I love you Snarfs. No I am not the SK. Yes I was roleblocked. I guess my strategy of playing blues roles just like plain VT roles is finally paying off! Come on mafia, I dare you to block me again, am I a VT or am I blue
If you have any questions about that post, let me know because no-one has commented on it.
@VE, that is my only concern as well. The only motivation I can find is that it causes mayhem and he clearly felt he was never going to get lynched, so why not make the entire first day about him? It gives cover to other scum and I have no doubt that a scum marv would have the balls to pull it off (bad image I know). I also want to know why people are happy voting for him now and not yesterday.
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On June 26 2012 15:07 VisceraEyes wrote: If marv flips SK, it's going to open a whole new can of worms...because scum are able to scumhunt when there's an SK involved in the game - so that means that anyone who's been on marvel's case since early on gets, literally, zero town-cred from marvel's flip. Especially myself.
One lynch at a time my good friend. If he is a SK then we have immediately halved night KP. This is good, we cannot guarantee that the SK will shoot scum (last night is a clear example of that). Plus we eliminate one way of us losing. I don't care if people don't give me credit for him flipping SK. I'll continue to scum hunt and find the other scum. Assuming someone is scum because they found the SK is completely nuts.
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Whoa there, it's not nuts. :/
Anyway, I'm not talking specifically about you or anything Prob, why get defensive like that? YOU SCUM BRO?
Tell me your thoughts on rastaban Prob - I'm going to go look at him and give you my thoughts. Rastaban was slOosh's lynch choice and he died - I mean, slOosh wasn't really emanating blue by any means, he was either killed because he was on the right track or because someone (scum or SK) is pushing some sort of agenda (in my opinion).
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On June 26 2012 15:15 Probulous wrote:ROFL, I love you Snarfs. No I am not the SK. Yes I was roleblocked. I guess my strategy of playing blues roles just like plain VT roles is finally paying off! Come on mafia, I dare you to block me again, am I a VT or am I blue If you have any questions about that post, let me know because no-one has commented on it. @VE, that is my only concern as well. The only motivation I can find is that it causes mayhem and he clearly felt he was never going to get lynched, so why not make the entire first day about him? It gives cover to other scum and I have no doubt that a scum marv would have the balls to pull it off (bad image I know). I also want to know why people are happy voting for him now and not yesterday. Well, I don't fully follow your reasoning for why an SK would not want to assert that there must not be an SK in the game, but that seems more like post-game discussion material.
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@VE, the implication being you shouldn't be worried about people might think if marv flips SK. I'm not being defensive, I am merely pointing out the silliness of someone assuming only scum can find the SK. And no, I am not scum.
Anyway, I will take a closer look and then post my thoughts on Rastaban. He just seems like a confused newb to me but maybe there is something more sinister. He said some stuff that seemed quite townie actually. Let me find it.
On June 24 2012 02:51 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:49 risk.nuke wrote: rastaban zephirdd and zentor, what are your thoughts on eachother? I already posted my thoughts on Zentor, Zephirdd is Pretty likely town, when he asked about by previous games he followed up by looking into the case and linked my previous case so others could review as well, that is a pretty town aligned action in my opinion and his last comment isn't something scum would say. It invites attention, but a townie just wants to find the truth and not be played. I liken it to my statement last game where I jokingly said that ace had rigged the game so that all lurkers were scum. It was half a joke but also out there to get people to think in that direction if things started getting fishy. Why scum would say that about a possible alternative lynch candidate is beyond me. It is a geniune point in Zephirdd's favour which no-one else had brought up. Now we know he flipped green and I doubt mafia shot Zephirdd, so if rastaban is mafia he was defending a townie with new data for no reason.
It is small but it put him in the townie basket for me. Plus whilst crazy he has been pretty open about his thoughts.
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I don't think rastaban is scum - his posts feel genuine, there's a hint of townie paranoia in a lot of them, I don't feel like he has more information than I do, and I don't feel like he's trying to push an agenda.
I feel like he's tried to contribute with his thoughts on what's happening, and I think he's got a decent scumread in risk.nuke.
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On June 26 2012 15:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm too lazy to vote-count, but it doesn't look good for marvel. Does anyone have anything to say in defense of marvel?
For my part, I have to admit that his poor play this game doesn't make sense to me from any perspective. Maybe Matt's right, maybe he's SK or something...but I just can't bring myself to think that he's town. I've tried.
My read on rasta is far stronger than my read on marv, here's my first thoughts on marv after I replaced in -
On June 25 2012 22:17 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 21:40 marvellosity wrote: Indeed. I've replaced in to games a few times, always as town, and never felt the need to justify my predecessor's play or fulfil promises on what they did. I understand you're not me though.
Given you're around. What do you make of me? as slOosh died, what do you think of Probulous? Initial impression after reading you - I think that you're town. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 23:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote: I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play. I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought. Again, I'm gonna have to disagree with my predecessor here. People, including him, were pointing out that the way that you answered the question, and the argument following it, didn't make sense for a townie. However, it really doesn't make sense for scum either. Any remotely decent scum player is going to put 10x the thought into how they answer questions regarding their alignment and would never have answered that way, it draws wayyyyy too much negative attention, for no gain. I don't think you handled it the best way, but I think people need to realise that a bad play does not equal scum. I mean, what does he gain from the whole exchange, as a scum player? Some WIFOM, and he avoids a rather simple question that I'm sure he was quite capable of answering. What does he gain from it as town - well, not a lot...he used some of VE's play there in his case, the rest just seemed to shit up the thread and bring him lots of negative attention. I could buy SK, perhaps, as his actions don't make sense from either perspective, but I'm not nearly close enough to a scumread on him to warrant a vote. I'm more confident on my rastaman read + Show Spoiler +On June 25 2012 18:21 xsksc wrote:Well, first of all - since my predecessor went AWOL and I don't know what his thought process was, I might as well answer this instead. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 06:23 slOosh wrote:On June 24 2012 02:40 vonKlaust II wrote: Right now though, my best bet would be Mr.Z I think. I don't really know about Rasta yet, but I'll check his filter out for myself and get back with my thoughts. But for now:
##Unvote ##Vote: MrZentor
Holding you accountable. I'll try to keep this short - I don't like rastaban's play on day 1. His case on risk was pure filler, and this early post definitely stood out to me. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote: Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations.He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? I don't like this at all. His opinion is extremely safe - he puts himself in a position where he could safely vote for Marv in the future, but he doesn't actually commit to anything. He doesn't really tell us anything, he just says marv COULD be scum. He also says he feels there's been "too much" discussion on the subject of Marv, but then he goes on to ask Marv some more questions, and he doesn't try to raise another subject, which completely contradicts what he just said.
What I find more concerning though, is his vote switch to MrZ. Here he says MrZ is null, and wants to give him more time. So he continues to push his #1 scum-read, fair enough. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote: I feel like Nuke hasn't just been a null, like MrZentor, by not contributing, but that his actions further scum agendas. There are legitimate reasons a town player may not contribute day 1, but I can't find legitimate town reasons for Risks actions.
This is his post between that and his vote-switch. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 23:23 rastaban wrote: I disagree about risk, he defended himself but didn't actually contribute yet. However I doubt I am going to get enough people to vote for him today.
The reason I wanted to wait on on mr.Z untill tomorrow was because he stayed in, even after subbing out. now it isn't deffinate by any leas but it increases the likelyhood he got a blue or red role. I didn't mention this earlier because if he wasn't scum then it increased his chance of getting hit tonight. However I think his vote on marv after claiming both were probably town is pretty incriminating. So MrZ has gone from being null to LYNCH HIM, because he changed his mind (changing your mind =/= scum), and the absurd theory that he's scum or a blue because he didn't /out. If he's so sure about his scum-read on risk, he should ABSOLUTELY push it, instead of taking the easy out on MrZ. For reference, I think this is why MrZ changed his mind. + Show Spoiler +On June 23 2012 11:20 Zephirdd wrote:Holy shit. Look at pages 16 and 17. I just solved this game. VE, marv are both scum bussing the F* out of each other. When was the last time this happened? I remember someone saying it was an "OP strategy". Wasn't it Toad/VE doing it? I don't quite remember. Someone said LI, is that it? Either way, if one of them flips scum, I'm sure as hell attacking the other. I thought the initial "attacks" were terrible for both parties, but at this point this all feels fabricated to me. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 12:09 MrZentor wrote:I don't know Zephirdd....it got pretty intense, but I do agree that we should kill one of them. ##Vote: marvellosity
TLDR I don't like Rastaman's day 1 play, I think it's downright scummy.
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