Movie Star Mini Mafia! - Page 33

On June 22 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:


well, that part of the figuring out bit I thought I'd leave to you.

On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:


I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first.

On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you.

On June 22 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote:
lol, ok dear. If people could look for themselves, then maybe just one person in the whole of LV and the obsQT might have had a tingling suspicion, no?

No.

On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:


here's a clue

count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation

profit

On June 22 2012 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
not policy lynching zentor, he's posted vaguely sensibly in more recent times

On June 22 2012 08:40 Probulous wrote:


Fair enough, I forgot who I was asking. You did back off Marv pretty quickly though. Why?

I mean this is terrible and you pointed it out



He still hasn't responded adequately. He is around note


But is he isn't bothering to actually answer Mattchew's question. So yeah, why the let up?

Marv, I want that alimony!

On June 22 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
Probey, you'll have to get in touch with my lawyer.

And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet.

On June 22 2012 08:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah let's lynch marv. Prob you down?

##Vote: marvellosity

Hubris does NOT become you sir.

On June 22 2012 08:54 Probulous wrote:



Why are you so cryptic? It's your job to prove you're town so you should want to provide information to us.

##Vote marvellosity

This time it's personal

@Mattchew, you have nothing to say

On June 22 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote:
it's not cryptic, it's blindingly fucking obvious. jesus christ

On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Anyways look what I found guys!




This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again!

Marv, your response?

On June 22 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
I'm supposed to talk about someone else in my defence?

And in the nested quote it states quite clearly there weren't any accusations...

that's twice this game now you've misrepresented something, wilfully or not. i'm watching you

On June 22 2012 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
STOP TALKING ABOUT MILLER CLAIMS

Now, Marv, my accusation was that you were being defensive when I wasn't attacking you. That's the accusation. I accused you of being overly defensive. What part about that is 'misrepresenting' what happened in that game?

On June 22 2012 09:37 VisceraEyes wrote:


Bolded is a strawman argument that was designed to discredit my accusations.

Italicized shows MARV blatantly misrepresenting the situation, as the nested quote WAS the accusation. He's trying to use the fact that the context is not there to fool everyone, but don't worry guys...VE is here.

Underlined is an empty accusation with no evidence and an empty threat. Keep on watchin Marv, I'm sure you'll see something you like.

On June 22 2012 09:38 marvellosity wrote:


what are you talking about?

in LV I was being defensive when you weren't actually attacking me? so what? you are attacking me here, so what's that got to do with this game?

On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:


This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused

First misrepresentation:





I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to.

On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean.

Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why?

On June 22 2012 09:46 marvellosity wrote:


one was a defence, one was not. do you see yet?

i didn't encourage people to leave the thread to read other games. i said i never said anything scummy in LV and I pointed out explicitly the scummy thing I was pressured for in magic.

the whole original question was on meta, and now you're pushing me for defending on meta? really?

On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:


I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta. You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES.

On June 22 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:


I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet.

On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:


I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.

On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin.

On June 22 2012 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote:


See, the funny part is that you could ask yourself the same question. Why would you put yourself in this situation as town? It doesn't make any fucking sense.

On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
a) because i'm unafraid
b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed

On June 22 2012 09:58 Probulous wrote:


See here is what I don't understand.

1. Mattchew asks you a simple question about what is different between your scum and your town play.
   
2. You say it's a good question (it is actually) and then you don't answer.
   
3. You get pushed to answer and you refer briefly to differences between the openings of two games (one town, one mafia). But you don't explicitly state what the difference are, or how they help us determine your alignment. To me it seems like an attempt to brush off the question and move onto other "more important" things.
   
4. Then when other people start pushing you, you get all snarky which just makes me go
   
5. You tell VE to go read the games but when he comes back with his response you say he is misrepresenting you but you don't think he is scum.

Why haven't you answered the original question? You admitted it's a good question, you claim VE is misrepresenting you but isn't scum so surely the best way to clear your name would be to outline exactly what you intended when you briefly referenced those games. I mean you seem to be saying that VE is mistaken but don't bother to actually take the time to thorughly correct the mistake. Why?

Because you don't want to answer the question. Townies want to provide data and clarity and you just wanted to move onto other things.

Has Matt just left the thread then? ><

On June 22 2012 10:02 Probulous wrote:


So by not answering his question you were proving you're town?

On June 22 2012 10:05 marvellosity wrote:
ok, VE. you're top of the pile ^^

Yeah Prob. After 2 pages discussing the same thing I'm doing a bang up job of moving on to other things. What I was alluding to is further up on this page ^

"The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum."

re: 5) - just because i find something suspicious, doesn't mean I leap into thinking someone is scum. it means it's marked down, to be accrued or otherwise with further evidence.

On June 22 2012 10:17 Probulous wrote:
1) You proactively ask people to question you so you can prove your alignment.

2) Then you dilberately obfuscate and avoid answering the question


3)You explain that this was not a mistake but instead part of an elaborate plan to do something no scum would do and so therefore prove you are town


If you are town, you are saying that you deliberately avoided answering Mattchew to cause a shitstorm to prove you're town? You don't say it was a mistake, or a joke but rather a calculated plan. You give yourself too little credit Marv. I think you're scum who tried to joke off a difficult question and didn't expect people to latch onto it. Now you are backpedalling as fast as you can.

On June 22 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote:
wrong way of looking at it Prob

if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting

On June 22 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
Depends what you classify as a mistake, really. I'm not really unhappy with the conversation it's caused. I'll call it a mistake if I get lynched, which shouldn't happen

On June 22 2012 10:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wait wait.

This is his plan. His plan is to do something so oblique and scummy that I tunnel him to death. It's my meta, and I can depend on TL to not listen to me when I tunnel. Prob, this was part of the plan. What do we do now that we've figured it out though?

On June 22 2012 13:42 Mattchew wrote:


I dislike this answer greatly. The entire reason I asked was because of how strong your scum play has been recently, and that seemingly no-one (especially in this game) could finger you as scum. I was looking for an answer that would leave me with things to hold you accountable for. Instead, you dodge the question completely.


I don't like your grasping at straws to use "im smarter than doing something so scummy" as a defense. If you knew it would look scummy, why would you do it? It serves no town purpose to act willfully scummy.


Off to another game making me not want to play with you again. Seriously you /outted which is why I stayed in this game ugh.

Is this your first game? Cause only noobs who know nothing about hunting scum say shit like this. People find day 1 scum all the time.
We have no counter-claim to his medic claim. I don't think we can lynch him yet because of this.



I have seen recent posts about prpl.. i will read his filter and context now and post about that in a little bit

On June 22 2012 19:17 marvellosity wrote:
lol love risk's posts, short and to the point



Since you asked so nicely... I'm not really sure. I'm more careful as scum. Don't get myself into situations like these I try to play similarly as scum as to town, so meh. More carefree with my thoughts as town I guess.

I still think VE is dodgy. Probably overestimating him as usual, but I feel like he should have been able to get a better grasp on me than this, and it makes me suspicious that he hasn't. Don't really blame Probulous so much.

Not particularly moved by the pressure on slOosh, from what I've seen of him he's usually cautious like this, especially on day 1.

Unsure where to place Zeph because of his dumb posting on millers, will wait for further content. Lack of relevancy at the moment. Somewhat suspicious because of the number of posts --> 0 content.

Zentor is abdicating responsibility for providing reads until tomorrow which isn't acceptable. It feels like he's trying to whimper his way into day 2. Response to pressure pretty poor (i momentarily took off my hypocrite hat). At the moment I would favour him to be lynched.

On June 22 2012 22:30 vonKlaust II wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't really like this play from Marv. One of the textbooks examples of trying to separate scum from town is to try to figure out how they post. If they are very deliberate and seem a little scared of posting it could mean they are more likely to be mafia, and if they seem more spontaneous and carefree in their posting then it could mean they are more likely to be town. Normally this is far from a proper clue, more just something to keep in back of your mind, but the way Marv keeps saying that he is just so darn carefree with posting makes me spider sense tingle. It also fits conveniently well with his defence.


+ Show Spoiler +
This one is the same thing, just a little more tricky. He's pretty much saying: If I was scum, I would be much more careful in my play and since I'm not careful in my play it hints to me being town.
The same thing over again. I'm carefree - therefore I'm town.

Other than this I pretty much agree with this ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183090 <--- post which I thought was excellent and got this ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183132 <--- very underwhelming answer.
And this also quite excellent post ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183197 <--- which got an equally underwhelming reply ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183210 <---



Eeeeeasy now buddy! We're all just friends here OK?
Also, today is midsummer celebration which is one of the biggest holidays here in Schwedenland so It's not impossible that I won't post anything more today. Happy midsummer!

On June 22 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote:
when someone is specifically asking me about my meta and my style of posting, what would you rather I said?

On June 22 2012 22:49 vonKlaust II wrote:



+ Show Spoiler +

This was where you started going on about being carefree as town. This had nothing to do VE asking you for your meta as town/scum. He just asked you why you put yourself in this situation in the first place if you know that it would put you at risk. And not only did it start all the talk about being care free. It's also nonsensical.
It doesn't matter how afraid our not you are, putting yourself in a bad situation is BAD. Making people think you are scum because you wanted to "get information from who and how you're pushed" is not worth the trade of making people suspicious of you and putting the focus on you and hence taking focus off others.

And sure, you kinda answered the question but I don't think that "I play more care free as town" really counts as a proper answer. Escpecially not after all that slithering. Most people are more careful as scum and your answer pretty much doesn't say anything about your actuall play.

On June 22 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote:
That's because my scumplay is so fucking awesome no-one ever suspects me, and so I have very few tells to differentiate my play (as far as I'm aware!).

I agree it wasn't ideal and if I had my time again I'd just answer the question the first time.

Also don't blame me for taking the focus off others. I didn't force you to make your entire post about me, you could have commented on anything else, yet you chose not to.

On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:


Ofc i would blame you for taking the focus from the real scum if you would happen to flip town. Do you expect us to just ignore the weird stuff you've been writing? Yes, I chose to because I think you have been playing scummy, and you aknowledge that yourself in this post.

1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy.
2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum.
You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play.

On June 22 2012 23:05 marvellosity wrote:


I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought.

On June 22 2012 23:06 vonKlaust II wrote:






I think this says it all.

On June 22 2012 23:13 vonKlaust II wrote:
You start of saying that you think that there are "A couple of possible tells" that could be used against you. Then you keep saying that you don't know any differences between your scum and town play. Then you claim that there are very few of them as far as you are aware.

I interpret this post.

As saying that you don't know anything about what differentiates your scumplay and your townplay. I know you say "very few" and that could indicate that you know of a few, but since you haven't actually posted what those would be and for the fact that you have once and once again given very diffuse answers about your scum and town play(i.e. "I play more carefree as town) I don't think that would be a proper interpretation.
I interprate this as two statements about what you know about your play that is contrary to one another.

On June 22 2012 23:17 marvellosity wrote:
how is 'very few' different from 'a couple'? I've posted my little heart out on what they are/might be (how i'm more impulsive as town, less scummy as scum) and yet you find these answeres unacceptable.

From one of the forum's most prolific observers in LV



So basically you attack me for not posting an answer that you find acceptable even though it is true:



And now you attack me for saying I have very few differences. Right, I have very few differences, and having elaborated on the ones that exist, you don't like them.

Keep trying

On June 23 2012 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
There are differences marv. For instance, townMarv is interested in finding scum. scumMarv is interested in lynching townies.

Also, both townMarv and scumMarv are good enough to realize that I'm very obviously town in this game, so the fact that you're calling me "dodgy" still (not scummy, not scum, not suspicious, not suspect....."dodgy") just confirms that you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug*

On June 23 2012 00:38 marvellosity wrote:


This is insidious, confirming/calling yourself as town play, while calling anyone who is suspicious of you scummy. Buddy 'friend' 'sorry' justification at the end. Extremely weak.

That is not town play.

"Also both townVE and scumVE are good enough to realise that my defence is clearly townie this game, so the fact that you persist in tunneling me just confirms you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug*"

SEE WHAT I DID THAR

On June 23 2012 04:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv do you think I'm scum? Because your last post is very sarcastic and I honestly can't tell what you're actually thinking. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're not playing a townie game this game sir.

Obviously, I still love where my vote is, and I encourage anyone who hasn't to go read over Marv's filter and join me in lynching him for the good of the town!

On June 23 2012 07:01 marvellosity wrote:


Yep, you're currently my #1 read

re: rastaban - he posted rather fluffily in Bang bang and gonzaw caught him being flippity floppity about him (i agreed with gonzaw's case in hindsight... having shot him first of course :/)

he was a scumread for me then but as the game went on he became more townie. Not really comfortable lynching him at this stage

On June 23 2012 07:07 marvellosity wrote:
I don't know how to push my VE read because a lot of it is based on the fact that I know my alignment 100% and no-one else does.

Basically he picked up on something that shouldn't have been *that* important, and crusaded/tunneled on it ad infinitum. He hasn't paused to look for the alternative explanation, he's just blindly going down the same alley. I think a townplaying VE would be more actively considering the idea that I was town rather than pushing me like he is.

Gonna get a bit egotistical for a minute - it feels like he's trying to get rid of me at an opportune moment on the back of something that he's exploded out of proportion.

I got tunneled into oblivion by Blazinghand in LI and I get a totally different feeling about it now. There I had a clear townread on BH because of the nature of it. Every time I see VE post I see him try to twist my words a little.

I said this about meapak in bang bang - it's either weak ass townie play or it's scummy play, and I think it's scummy play.

On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Having a preference for the lynch is not the same as tunneling into oblivion. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm looking at other people, and you're presently more scummy than any of them by far Marvel. The crux of your case, as you stated it, is "that it's based on the fact that I know my alignment 100% and no-one else does."

LOL

Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such.

Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does.

On June 23 2012 07:13 marvellosity wrote:
No, see you're doing it again, you're misrepresenting what I'm saying.

I'm clearly saying that the manner you've gone about going after me is what I find bad, not the fact taht you've gone after me.

For example Probulous I see only honest motivations logically explained.

This post is once again you twisting what I'm saying, and hopefully people can see this.

Try considering I'm town, yes?

On June 23 2012 07:14 marvellosity wrote:
like, where did I say the fact I was town and therefore you are targetting makes me scum?

I said that I have the unique perspective of knowing my alignment where others do not.

Just that subtle little twisting of my words into negative connotations.

On June 23 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
I have marvel, you're not giving me any other outs here. You're scummy as fuck, there's nothing I can do about that.

Your response to Mattchew was terrible. You didn't correct that and actually answer his question, you defended how terrible it was. When I've accused you, you've laughed it off like "lol oh VE". It's called discrediting Marvel, and it's fucking scummy. I've explained why I find you scummy, logically. I've tried considering that you're town, but I can't think of a single reason why you'd act the way you are.

Like, you know me. You know my town play, and you KNOW this is it. I'm trying to figure shit out, and you're just attempting to discredit it by calling it "tunneling to oblivion" and dismissing everything I'm saying. That's fucking SCUMMY SIR!

You haven't commented at ALL on my case on prplhz, do you realize this? I've spent a fair amount of time discussing prplhz, but are you interested in looking? Ya? No? You haven't mentioned it - and for someone saying that all I'm doing is tunneling you "ad infinitium", I'd think you'd be interested in ANYTHING I say that isn't about you. But nope, you're content to just shovel shit my way and it's FUCKING SCUMMY SIR.

So whatever, call it tunneling. I prefer you for lynch. Deal with it. I still like you, I just really really dislike your play this game. I think you're scum. Hang, bro.

On June 23 2012 07:27 Probulous wrote:
Hi guys. Just woke up and wow VE and Marv

Keep your panties on.

Marv, where is that scum hunting you promised me? Put together your case on VE and let us decide. Shouting and insulting each other gets us nowhere.

On June 23 2012 07:27 marvellosity wrote:
I already put my thoughts down on VE.

On June 23 2012 07:32 marvellosity wrote:
that's because for once you need to learn to put your emotions to one side, which you're completely failing to do here

On June 23 2012 07:36 marvellosity wrote:
fuck you're probably town

On June 23 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:
Snarfs, I'd like to clarify -

1) i think useful information is to be had from the furore that was caused
2) i'd still not prefer for it to have been the case, because actually i don't revel in stuff like this

On June 23 2012 07:58 marvellosity wrote:


*nonaggression pact*

why risk over zentor?

On June 23 2012 08:17 marvellosity wrote:
alright, but if we put me aside for a moment

would you rather have risk or zentor with you day 2 to smoke out scum?

On June 23 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
@marv
First of all, we weren't even talking about you so I don't know where the "put me aside for a moment" came from. Secondly, I've already answered the question you just asked me. You even questioned me on it - so what was the point of that post? I prefer a risk.nuke lynch to a Zentor lynch if we're talking about lynching lurkers.

On June 23 2012 18:07 marvellosity wrote:
Also, Zephirdd, don't be ridiculous. Especially as it made me back down from my read on VE.

On June 24 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote:
VE, I need to put my mind at rest.

Other than LI, could you please tell me a couple of scum games you've played recently?

On June 24 2012 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv do your own meta research.

On June 24 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
tell me what you think of rastban VE

On June 24 2012 05:46 marvellosity wrote:
all i see on other games is that late vote switches are almost always completely disastrous. I don't have high confidence in any of rastaban/zentor/zephirdd who i'd want to be lynching into. I don't see what vote switching would achieve at this stage. pfft

On June 25 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote:
just gonna assume for now mafia shot VE and the jailer saved him by jailing him

On June 25 2012 08:41 marvellosity wrote:


huh? I came to the conclusion eventually VE was probably town, and other people in the thread have said VE was playing pro town and I was suspicious for being suspicious of him. Fairly obvious why mafia would shoot him thusly

don't understand the final question

On June 25 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
prplhz:

On June 25 2012 08:53 marvellosity wrote:
stuff like this:

On June 25 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote:
and also this:

On June 25 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:


why don't you ask questions that make sense

the point was that if several people had expressed a townread on arguably the strongest scumhunter in the game, then assuming he was both shot and saved isn't very much of a stretch

On June 25 2012 09:42 Probulous wrote:


He's clearly putting together his case on me. I would if I was in his position. I haven't played well over the weekend and I know it. Oh well, we can see what he comes up with.

Why did you change your read on VE?

On June 25 2012 09:44 marvellosity wrote:
his emotion while arguing with me seemed spontaneous and not faked