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On June 26 2012 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, slOosh wasn't really emanating blue by any means.
On June 23 2012 07:05 slOosh wrote:
Hrrmph. Alright I'll just lay out my suspicions. I wanted to hit two birds with one stone by getting reads on other people via their opinions on the matter (since I have too many null reads). Dear townspeople: step it up. If you are blue then scum know it and will snipe you, and we think you are scum and mislynch you. That's the only explanation I can think of at the appalling lack of effort by most of town right now.
It's small but I picked up on it so scum could too. Why mention blues specifically here? It shows he was thinking about power roles which makes more sense if he was one.
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I mean, that looks more like claiming VT obliquely than a blue-slip...but I see what you're saying. At any rate, I really don't think rastaban is scum and slOosh was pushing rastaban for lynch. What do you make of that?
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On June 26 2012 15:50 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 15:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm too lazy to vote-count, but it doesn't look good for marvel. Does anyone have anything to say in defense of marvel?
For my part, I have to admit that his poor play this game doesn't make sense to me from any perspective. Maybe Matt's right, maybe he's SK or something...but I just can't bring myself to think that he's town. I've tried.
My read on rasta is far stronger than my read on marv, here's my first thoughts on marv after I replaced in - Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 22:17 xsksc wrote:On June 25 2012 21:40 marvellosity wrote:
Indeed. I've replaced in to games a few times, always as town, and never felt the need to justify my predecessor's play or fulfil promises on what they did. I understand you're not me though.
Given you're around. What do you make of me? as slOosh died, what do you think of Probulous? Initial impression after reading you - I think that you're town. On June 22 2012 23:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play. I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought. Again, I'm gonna have to disagree with my predecessor here. People, including him, were pointing out that the way that you answered the question, and the argument following it, didn't make sense for a townie. However, it really doesn't make sense for scum either. Any remotely decent scum player is going to put 10x the thought into how they answer questions regarding their alignment and would never have answered that way, it draws wayyyyy too much negative attention, for no gain. I don't think you handled it the best way, but I think people need to realise that a bad play does not equal scum. I mean, what does he gain from the whole exchange, as a scum player? Some WIFOM, and he avoids a rather simple question that I'm sure he was quite capable of answering. What does he gain from it as town - well, not a lot...he used some of VE's play there in his case, the rest just seemed to shit up the thread and bring him lots of negative attention. I could buy SK, perhaps, as his actions don't make sense from either perspective, but I'm not nearly close enough to a scumread on him to warrant a vote. I'm more confident on my rastaman read + Show Spoiler +On June 25 2012 18:21 xsksc wrote:Well, first of all - since my predecessor went AWOL and I don't know what his thought process was, I might as well answer this instead. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 06:23 slOosh wrote:On June 24 2012 02:40 vonKlaust II wrote:
Right now though, my best bet would be Mr.Z I think.
I don't really know about Rasta yet, but I'll check his filter out for myself and get back with my thoughts.
But for now:
##Unvote
##Vote: MrZentor
Holding you accountable. I'll try to keep this short - I don't like rastaban's play on day 1. His case on risk was pure filler, and this early post definitely stood out to me. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations.He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? I don't like this at all. His opinion is extremely safe - he puts himself in a position where he could safely vote for Marv in the future, but he doesn't actually commit to anything. He doesn't really tell us anything, he just says marv COULD be scum. He also says he feels there's been "too much" discussion on the subject of Marv, but then he goes on to ask Marv some more questions, and he doesn't try to raise another subject, which completely contradicts what he just said.
What I find more concerning though, is his vote switch to MrZ. Here he says MrZ is null, and wants to give him more time. So he continues to push his #1 scum-read, fair enough. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote:
I feel like Nuke hasn't just been a null, like MrZentor, by not contributing, but that his actions further scum agendas. There are legitimate reasons a town player may not contribute day 1, but I can't find legitimate town reasons for Risks actions.
This is his post between that and his vote-switch. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 23:23 rastaban wrote:
I disagree about risk, he defended himself but didn't actually contribute yet. However I doubt I am going to get enough people to vote for him today.
The reason I wanted to wait on on mr.Z untill tomorrow was because he stayed in, even after subbing out. now it isn't deffinate by any leas but it increases the likelyhood he got a blue or red role. I didn't mention this earlier because if he wasn't scum then it increased his chance of getting hit tonight. However I think his vote on marv after claiming both were probably town is pretty incriminating. So MrZ has gone from being null to LYNCH HIM, because he changed his mind (changing your mind =/= scum), and the absurd theory that he's scum or a blue because he didn't /out. If he's so sure about his scum-read on risk, he should ABSOLUTELY push it, instead of taking the easy out on MrZ. For reference, I think this is why MrZ changed his mind. + Show Spoiler +On June 23 2012 11:20 Zephirdd wrote:Holy shit. Look at pages 16 and 17. I just solved this game. VE, marv are both scum bussing the F* out of each other. When was the last time this happened? I remember someone saying it was an "OP strategy". Wasn't it Toad/VE doing it? I don't quite remember. Someone said LI, is that it? Either way, if one of them flips scum, I'm sure as hell attacking the other. I thought the initial "attacks" were terrible for both parties, but at this point this all feels fabricated to me. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 12:09 MrZentor wrote:I don't know Zephirdd....it got pretty intense, but I do agree that we should kill one of them.  ##Vote: marvellosity
TLDR I don't like Rastaman's day 1 play, I think it's downright scummy.
Have you read my marv case?
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On June 26 2012 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, that looks more like claiming VT obliquely than a blue-slip...but I see what you're saying. At any rate, I really don't think rastaban is scum and slOosh was pushing rastaban for lynch. What do you make of that?
He was pushing Snarfs and me too, I don't see your point?
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Well, I'd venture a wager that Snarfs is town to based on that fact alone...I have you as a town read and rasta as a town read, SlOosh wanted you two dead...Snarfs too...
I don't know, I'm feeling like analyzing night-kills since we're pretty much locked in on marv for lynch today. :/
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I'm responding to xsksc's case on rastaban now. I liked von Klaust and he seems to be a willing replacement so he deserves to have his case destroyed  No, not really but it is lacking in motivation.
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Do you want his rasta read or his marv read? Unless you were just gonna dismantle both...
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On June 26 2012 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, that looks more like claiming VT obliquely than a blue-slip...but I see what you're saying. At any rate, I really don't think rastaban is scum and slOosh was pushing rastaban for lynch. What do you make of that?
On June 24 2012 06:51 wherebugsgo wrote:
Vote Count - Roughly 10 minutes to go
MrZentor (8): prplhz, VisceraEyes, slOosh, marvellosity, Probulous, rastaban, Mattchew, vonKlaust II, Zephirdd
prplhz (0): VisceraEyes
Probulous (0): Snarfs
marvellosity (0): VisceraEyes, Probulous, risk.nuke,vonKlaust II, MrZentor
von Klaust II (0): risk.nuke
risk.nuke (0): rastaban
rastaban (5): Snarfs, Mattchew, risk.nuke, Shraft, slOosh, MrZentor
Snarfs (0): slOosh
Well, we know there was at least 2 townies on Rasta - slOosh and Zentor, who are both dead now.
I feel like slOosh was making a lot more sense in this game than he did in c9++, I guess that's why he was killed.
On June 26 2012 16:00 Probulous wrote:
Have you read my marv case?
Yes, holy shit dude have you considered a career in writing?
I'll reply to this bit due to the massive length of it.
TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia.
Do you really think it's likely he'd get caught off guard when asked a direct alignment related question right at the start of day one? I mean, I'm not marv, I'm a terrible scum player - but I sure as hell would put a LOT more thought into answering a question about my alignment than I would as town. His responses seem fairly arrogant and careless - hence why I thought he was town.
It's a shitload of WIFOM, but maybe I just have a different opinnion about this than you or VE, but I really don't see why he did NOT stop the mess if he was scum - it was just making him look worse, and he could, like you said, just answer the question and you would have dropped the case. The fact that he didn't just baffles me, but I don't think it makes him scum.
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xsksc, I will comment on your case because you are convinced by it but I am not.
On June 25 2012 18:21 xsksc wrote:His case on risk was pure filler, and this early post definitely stood out to me. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations.He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? I don't like this at all. His opinion is extremely safe - he puts himself in a position where he could safely vote for Marv in the future, but he doesn't actually commit to anything. He doesn't really tell us anything, he just says marv COULD be scum.
I actually don't mind his case on Risk. It is on someone that people were ignoring and shows willingness to add to the information pool. Anyway playing safe early on Day 1 is not unreasonable. slOosh took exactly the same position and was blue so it is hardly alignment indicative.
He also says he feels there's been "too much" discussion on the subject of Marv, but then he goes on to ask Marv some more questions, and he doesn't try to raise another subject, which completely contradicts what he just said.
Meaning? That he probably isn't thinking straight but hardly that he is scum.
What I find more concerning though, is his vote switch to MrZ. Here he says MrZ is null, and wants to give him more time. So he continues to push his #1 scum-read, fair enough. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote:
I feel like Nuke hasn't just been a null, like MrZentor, by not contributing, but that his actions further scum agendas. There are legitimate reasons a town player may not contribute day 1, but I can't find legitimate town reasons for Risks actions.
This is his post between that and his vote-switch. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 23:23 rastaban wrote:
I disagree about risk, he defended himself but didn't actually contribute yet. However I doubt I am going to get enough people to vote for him today.
The reason I wanted to wait on on mr.Z untill tomorrow was because he stayed in, even after subbing out. now it isn't deffinate by any leas but it increases the likelyhood he got a blue or red role. I didn't mention this earlier because if he wasn't scum then it increased his chance of getting hit tonight. However I think his vote on marv after claiming both were probably town is pretty incriminating. So MrZ has gone from being null to LYNCH HIM, because he changed his mind (changing your mind =/= scum), and the absurd theory that he's scum or a blue because he didn't /out. If he's so sure about his scum-read on risk, he should ABSOLUTELY push it, instead of taking the easy out on MrZ.
Yes, push your read if you think you can get your target lynched. From what he said, he didn't think he could his target lynched so he gave up. Scummy? Yes, enough to lynch, no. Especially with the crazy blue/red thing. That kind of thinking is almost always coming from town. Why would mafia bother to come up with that stuff? Look at Zephirdd, same crazy, flipped green. Finally, despite what slOosh and you think MrZentor changing his vote like that was scummy. He gave 0 indication as to why he did it other than responding to Zephirdd's bizarre case which he disagreed with? It makes 0 sense and looked to me like an attempt to get rid of his vote. rastaban voted for Zentor based on that is certaily not enough to get him lynched in my books. Compare his reasoning to the other voters and you will see it isn't as bad as you think.
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VE you think rastabans scumread on me is genuine? Anyway I don't know if I want to lynch rastaban because when scum have attacked me with a bad case in the past they generally back of. And townies are more prone to do the kind of moron tunneling rastaban is doing. (Given though, in the past the ones who were townies kept making tunnelingcases and tried to get me lynched. Rastaban is just calling me his #1 which is lazy and seems more mafia-aligned.
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It's a shitload of WIFOM, but maybe I just have a different opinnion about this than you or VE, but I really don't see why he did NOT stop the mess if he was scum - it was just making him look worse, and he could, like you said, just answer the question and you would have dropped the case. The fact that he didn't just baffles me, but I don't think it makes him scum.
Because the mess is good for scum. It is that simple. He was deliberately prolonging the confusion, he even admits to that. He was the entire focus of Day 1 and yet he felt sure enough to say he would not get lynched. If so, then he was intentionally keeping VE and myself from scumhunting elsewhere. This impares town's ability to have a succesful Day 1 lynch. There is no way a townie would do this on purpose, accidentally maybe. Like I said, I think his initial response was geniune, but his choice to prolong the chaos was scum motivated.
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On June 26 2012 16:22 risk.nuke wrote:
VE you think rastabans scumread on me is genuine? Anyway I don't know if I want to lynch rastaban because when scum have attacked me with a bad case in the past they generally back of. And townies are more prone to do the kind of moron tunneling rastaban is doing. (Given though, in the past the ones who were townies kept making tunnelingcases and tried to get me lynched. Rastaban is just calling me his #1 which is lazy and seems more mafia-aligned.
So is he mafia, town, SK or null? This post says he is tunelling like a townie but he is acting mafia aligned. Clarify please.
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xs, I want to respond to this bit in particular...
I mean, what does he gain from the whole exchange, as a scum player? Some WIFOM, and he avoids a rather simple question that I'm sure he was quite capable of answering.
What does he gain from it as town - well, not a lot...he used some of VE's play there in his case, the rest just seemed to shit up the thread and bring him lots of negative attention.
I could buy SK, perhaps, as his actions don't make sense from either perspective, but I'm not nearly close enough to a scumread on him to warrant a vote. I'm more confident on my rastaman read
Some WIFOM is his entire defense of his D1 play rasta, what do you mean "what does he have to gain?" And if he's perfectly capable of answering the question as scum, then why doesn't he answer the question if he's town? You fail to leave out that part...no, strike that, because you actually MENTION that it doesn't make much sense from a townie perspective.
This is a weak defense - saying simply that he has no reason to act this way as scum is absolutely false. Scum can and will act in any way you can imagine to try and avoid getting lynched. The fact that he's said nothing in his own defense other than "I wouldn't act like this as scum" pretty much is proof that he's scum. If he were town, he could explain his motivation. He never explains his motivation for acting the way he acted D1. Only says, like you, "I wouldn't do that as scum".
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Do we know how many scum we can expect? I thinking 3 with an SK is probably a bit much but I have never been involved in a balancing session.
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I'm not defending him VE - I'm saying I don't get why he played like that as EITHER faction.
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On June 26 2012 16:24 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 16:22 risk.nuke wrote:
VE you think rastabans scumread on me is genuine? Anyway I don't know if I want to lynch rastaban because when scum have attacked me with a bad case in the past they generally back of. And townies are more prone to do the kind of moron tunneling rastaban is doing. (Given though, in the past the ones who were townies kept making tunnelingcases and tried to get me lynched. Rastaban is just calling me his #1 which is lazy and seems more mafia-aligned. So is he mafia, town, SK or null? This post says he is tunelling like a townie but he is acting mafia aligned. Clarify please.
Leaning mafia but I will be able to tell with alot more certainty tomorrow so I'll try to find someone better to lynch.
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On June 26 2012 16:22 risk.nuke wrote:
VE you think rastabans scumread on me is genuine? Anyway I don't know if I want to lynch rastaban because when scum have attacked me with a bad case in the past they generally back of. And townies are more prone to do the kind of moron tunneling rastaban is doing. (Given though, in the past the ones who were townies kept making tunnelingcases and tried to get me lynched. Rastaban is just calling me his #1 which is lazy and seems more mafia-aligned.
Of course I think it's genuine, and he's not "moronically tunneling" he has a scumread on you and he's trying to convince town. Get your ass in here and do something if you think he's "moronically tunneling" you.
The fact that you spent an entire post waffling on rastaban is particularly interesting considering I'm not sure where you stand on marvellosity. You might have mentioned it somewhere, but I'm pretty intimately familiar with the thread and I can't seem to recall....
...and marvellosity is the leading lynch candidate. Get your head out of your ass and do something if you're town risk. Or hang by the neck until you are dead if you are scum.
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On June 26 2012 16:26 Probulous wrote:
Do we know how many scum we can expect? I thinking 3 with an SK is probably a bit much but I have never been involved in a balancing session.
The last one with an SK had 3 scum, but it all depends on how the roles were distributed.
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On June 25 2012 10:48 risk.nuke wrote:
Well shraft I have feelings about people. I've just been to lazy to share them with you. Also there is the bandwagon to analyze (which I still haven't done - probably have to do tomorrow) before I feel good posting thoughts.
This should be interesting, it is afterall tomorrow now.
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I can tell you that rastaban genuinely feels like he's been looking for reasons why I am scum rather then looking for clues IF I am scum which is moronic tunneling and is one of the easiest ways for scum to appear like they are doing something.
My current opinion of your and Marvellositys relationship is of two monkeys flinging crap at eachother. You guys have spammed up half the thread with your one-liners. (Btw if you've done this before (spamm-argued with someone as town, please tell me what game. You too marvellosity)
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EPT
