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On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all.
destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best
whereas quantic lost a player who uses racist language, I'm not sure how they really lost out, if destiny didn't say racist shit then yes, they lost out on having a popular personality on their team but they would have lost out further if they had kept a player who uses racist language on their team
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On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:
destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best
His income comes from streaming. I doubt Quantic is gonna ask him to return sponsor stuff. Only people who already didn't like him think his name is tainted. His fans know where his stream is anyway.
But yea breaking up was by far the best solution imo. Destiny can be himself and Quantic can have more professional players.
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On May 12 2012 22:33 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:
destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best
His income comes from streaming. I doubt Quantic is gonna ask him to return sponsor stuff. Only people who already didn't like him think his name is tainted. His fans know where his stream is anyway. But yea breaking up was by far the best solution imo. Destiny can be himself and Quantic can have more professional players.
And now that quantic can't bring him to MLG his fans won't have to see him fail to make an actual showing outside of beating scrubs on ladder.
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On May 12 2012 11:49 gayfius173 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 02:31 Doodsmack wrote:
^in b4 lorkac ignores your argument for why people shouldn't go to the sponsors and tells you that you can't make that argument because those people are free to do what they wish and you can't control their actions. Because, you know, anytime you can't control or force people's actions it means that you shouldn't criticize them or try to convince them to change their ways. What's funny is that he's arguing that people have the right to engage in free speech to go to a sponsor because they have a 'right' to do what they want - By his own logic, destiny should then have a right to say w/e the fuck he wants on his stream.
Being free to say and do what you want isn't the same as being free from the consequences of what you say and do. People on both sides of the argument have expressed that sentiment. Destiny is free to use whatever language he wants on his stream, but the consequences are how the viewing public and sponsors react. People are free to send their complaints to sponsors about player behavior, but the consequence is that eSports is negatively impacted.
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On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all.
What exactly happened to Quantic again? My understand was that nothing happened to Quantic.
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On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best whereas quantic lost a player who uses racist language, I'm not sure how they really lost out, if destiny didn't say racist shit then yes, they lost out on having a popular personality on their team but they would have lost out further if they had kept a player who uses racist language on their team
Do you seriously think Destiny lost anything at all?
The people complaining to the sponsors only hurt QuanticGaming and everyone else, not Destiny. If you wanted to hurt Destiny they would have complained to the CORRECT people, such as QuanticGaming management who could have LEGALLY FINED him, or complained to the company that runs his stream in order to take it down due to the offensive material and how it could possibly negatively affect E-Sports. Instead, they go after a team that did really no wrong at all. Yes they hired someone that is "potentially risky," but no one had ever made a big fuss about his attitude before until now. Also, since the Orb incident, Destiny for the most part was well behaved, really toning down alot of his language. But this shitstorm ensues the second Destiny slips up once. Remember, you didn't hurt Destiny at all. I guarantee 95% of his income is base off of his streaming revenues. He maybe lost 5% of his income AT BEST.
On May 13 2012 00:50 whiskypriest wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. What exactly happened to Quantic again? My understand was that nothing happened to Quantic.
Bad publicity for both the players and the staff of QuanticGaming, including a stigma against them now that will potentially ward off any future sponsors. That's extremely damaging, especially to an up and coming organization like Quantic. Not only did Quantic lose a popular personality on their team, their reputation has been hurt significantly by an event like this when dealing with any potential future sponsors.
Meanwhile Destiny continues to badmanner on his stream while raking in the dough by the truckload. I'm sure he does care that he lost his sponsorship, but it wasn't like it was a significant blow to him that would make him think twice about his actions. It's absolutely amazing that people don't understand that they did virtually nothing to Destiny. He is still one of the most highly paid players in SC2 by sheer virtue of his streaming revenues, and he still continues to utilize his language to this day.
Various pro players AND E-sport managers have gone on record pleading with the public NOT to contact sponsors and trying to strongarm teams. It's bad for E-Sports, period. Everyone that has any idea of how the industry works knows this. Not only did you do absolutely nothing to Destiny, you also hurt a team that did virtually no wrong, and potentially other teams out there that may want to get a sponsor but can't due to this incident. The continual abuse of going to sponsors will only demonstrate that the Starcraft 2 community is unstable, and these sponsors will flock to other games or other business ventures if this idiotic abuse continues (and it is VERY idiotic).
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On May 12 2012 14:28 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 13:45 shmee wrote:On May 10 2012 02:04 Chessz wrote:On May 10 2012 01:41 shmee wrote:On May 10 2012 01:31 revel8 wrote:On May 10 2012 01:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 10 2012 01:08 revel8 wrote:
Chocobo still steadfastly apologising for racism.
Maybe if I was brought up in 1950's Mississippi, I would agree with Chocobo, however I was not and so regard such views as outdated and intolerant. Welcome to the 21st Century Chocobo, racism is no longer tolerated. Modern times are tough for the kkk demographic.
Your reading comprehension has severely failed you if you think this discussion is about pro-racism vs anti-racism. Actually I can read fine. I know that you said you loved Destiny after it came out that he had racially abused somebody. So you supported his actions in racially abusing somebody. You then proceeded to attempt to smear those who opposed racism as being bigots. You also stated that no-one should be complaining about Destiny at all. You then attempted to argue that Destiny was not actually racially abusing someone. You then stated that racial abuse from Destiny is akin to cartoonish insults and not to be taken seriously. You then proceeded to make various irrelevent analogies in an attempt to obsfucate the issue. You also continued to label those who diagreed with you as immature or having a mob mentality or engaging in a witch-hunt. This was done in order to attempt to discredit their views. You then complained about other members of the community attempting to impose their will over others, and then in the next breath you attempted to control other people by dictating what they should or should not do. So how is my reading comprehension now? The issue here is not whether or not race is the real issue. The issue is that people are FORCING racism into the discussion. In each of the instances, what was said was the same as any generic insult because the player in question was raging, with ONE notable difference: the use of a racial slur. Which of these two is more offensive: "FUCK YOU YOUR MOTHER IS A WHORE AND YOUR DAD TAKES IT UP THE ASS AND YOU LOVE TO EAT SHIT YOU PIECE OF GARBAGE..." etc etc etc for five lines -OR- "fuck off gook" Both are bad, yep. Both are immature and offensive, yep. But is there ANYONE here who can honestly say that they've never gotten pissed off and insulted their opponent? The problem I have is that of my two examples, one's pretty blatantly more offensive AND it's more offensive to a much larger group of people (everyone), whereas the second is offensive to a small group of people and only three words, yet it's seen as some absolutely never-okay horrible terrible thing that no decent human being would ever do. The real issue is that someone got upset, they overreacted, and their overreaction had far harsher consequences than were needed. Not only is this the case for the players who say something stupid, but on the people who get offended and instantly call the fucking sponsors demanding the player's head on a platter. What needs to be done is for teams to have explicit rules for punishments (fines, suspensions, etc) for these types of offenses. This way when someone uses a special word that's on some blacklist, and some idiots go to the sponsors crying hate-mongering, the team can discipline the player by pre-set rules and the sponsor can point to that if they need to. That way overreactions can be punished, but kept in check. this is one of the most privileged things i've ever read. I think people use the term "privileged" as a pejorative for when they cannot argue what was said, but instead slur it and the author by using a vague term loaded with tons and tons of presumptions. I think that's really what's at the heart of this entire issue. The problem isn't racism. The problem is that white males used an ethnic slur. Destiny was a fucking carpet cleaner before he turned pro-gamer. How privileged do you really think he was? Nothing says hardship more than being an employed white male living in America rich enough to own a computer who spends his time calling people niggers and gooks.
And nothing says "racial tolerance" like posting negatively about a 'white male' on an online forum for a video game dominated by men.
I think it'd be better for us to be aware of this issue and have a discussion about punishments, then WRITE THEM DOWN so we can have some form of objectivity. What you and people like you seem to be advocating is that we get caught up in the moment and lynch the evil, evil white men who dare speak a racial slur.
Do you honestly believe that Destiny deserved to be effectively kicked off his team and have major sources of income cut off because he raged at someone?
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On May 13 2012 00:54 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best whereas quantic lost a player who uses racist language, I'm not sure how they really lost out, if destiny didn't say racist shit then yes, they lost out on having a popular personality on their team but they would have lost out further if they had kept a player who uses racist language on their team Do you seriously think Destiny lost anything at all? The people complaining to the sponsors only hurt QuanticGaming and everyone else, not Destiny. If you wanted to hurt Destiny they would have complained to the CORRECT people, such as QuanticGaming management who could have LEGALLY FINED him, or complained to the company that runs his stream in order to take it down due to the offensive material and how it could possibly negatively affect E-Sports. Instead, they go after a team that did really no wrong at all. Yes they hired someone that is "potentially risky," but no one had ever made a big fuss about his attitude before until now. Also, since the Orb incident, Destiny for the most part was well behaved, really toning down alot of his language. But this shitstorm ensues the second Destiny slips up once. Remember, you didn't hurt Destiny at all. I guarantee 95% of his income is base off of his streaming revenues. He maybe lost 5% of his income AT BEST. Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 00:50 whiskypriest wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. What exactly happened to Quantic again? My understand was that nothing happened to Quantic. Bad publicity for both the players and the staff of QuanticGaming, including a stigma against them now that will potentially ward off any future sponsors. That's extremely damaging, especially to an up and coming organization like Quantic. Not only did Quantic lose a popular personality on their team, their reputation has been hurt significantly by an event like this when dealing with any potential future sponsors. Meanwhile Destiny continues to badmanner on his stream while raking in the dough by the truckload. I'm sure he does care that he lost his sponsorship, but it wasn't like it was a significant blow to him that would make him think twice about his actions. It's absolutely amazing that people don't understand that they did virtually nothing to Destiny. He is still one of the most highly paid players in SC2 by sheer virtue of his streaming revenues, and he still continues to utilize his language to this day. Various pro players AND E-sport managers have gone on record pleading with the public NOT to contact sponsors and trying to strongarm teams. It's bad for E-Sports, period. Everyone that has any idea of how the industry works knows this. Not only did you do absolutely nothing to Destiny, you also hurt a team that did virtually no wrong, and potentially other teams out there that may want to get a sponsor but can't due to this incident. The continual abuse of going to sponsors will only demonstrate that the Starcraft 2 community is unstable, and these sponsors will flock to other games or other business ventures if this idiotic abuse continues (and it is VERY idiotic).
he lost his sponsor, so money, free stuff, travel money and associated publicity from being on a team, so yes he did lose something
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Oh look guys...
We have our first real life example of how sponsors deal with "pseudo-racist" (God forbid since he is not an actual one, just using racial slurs on context).
They kicked the pseudo-racist out instead of cancelling the tournament i.e. not give exposure/ associate with the pseudo-racist instead of pulling out sponsorship. Wow.. they do act rationally after all!
Let's hope this is a sign of things to come! That companies still support the scene sans the bad apples and that players know how to behave in public to avoid devolving into a social pariah.
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On May 13 2012 01:12 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 00:54 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best whereas quantic lost a player who uses racist language, I'm not sure how they really lost out, if destiny didn't say racist shit then yes, they lost out on having a popular personality on their team but they would have lost out further if they had kept a player who uses racist language on their team Do you seriously think Destiny lost anything at all? The people complaining to the sponsors only hurt QuanticGaming and everyone else, not Destiny. If you wanted to hurt Destiny they would have complained to the CORRECT people, such as QuanticGaming management who could have LEGALLY FINED him, or complained to the company that runs his stream in order to take it down due to the offensive material and how it could possibly negatively affect E-Sports. Instead, they go after a team that did really no wrong at all. Yes they hired someone that is "potentially risky," but no one had ever made a big fuss about his attitude before until now. Also, since the Orb incident, Destiny for the most part was well behaved, really toning down alot of his language. But this shitstorm ensues the second Destiny slips up once. Remember, you didn't hurt Destiny at all. I guarantee 95% of his income is base off of his streaming revenues. He maybe lost 5% of his income AT BEST. On May 13 2012 00:50 whiskypriest wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. What exactly happened to Quantic again? My understand was that nothing happened to Quantic. Bad publicity for both the players and the staff of QuanticGaming, including a stigma against them now that will potentially ward off any future sponsors. That's extremely damaging, especially to an up and coming organization like Quantic. Not only did Quantic lose a popular personality on their team, their reputation has been hurt significantly by an event like this when dealing with any potential future sponsors. Meanwhile Destiny continues to badmanner on his stream while raking in the dough by the truckload. I'm sure he does care that he lost his sponsorship, but it wasn't like it was a significant blow to him that would make him think twice about his actions. It's absolutely amazing that people don't understand that they did virtually nothing to Destiny. He is still one of the most highly paid players in SC2 by sheer virtue of his streaming revenues, and he still continues to utilize his language to this day. Various pro players AND E-sport managers have gone on record pleading with the public NOT to contact sponsors and trying to strongarm teams. It's bad for E-Sports, period. Everyone that has any idea of how the industry works knows this. Not only did you do absolutely nothing to Destiny, you also hurt a team that did virtually no wrong, and potentially other teams out there that may want to get a sponsor but can't due to this incident. The continual abuse of going to sponsors will only demonstrate that the Starcraft 2 community is unstable, and these sponsors will flock to other games or other business ventures if this idiotic abuse continues (and it is VERY idiotic). he lost his sponsor, so money, free stuff, travel money and associated publicity from being on a team, so yes he did lose something
1) He lost very little money; Again, the majority of his income is based off his streaming.
2) Destiny gets free stuff anyways
3) Associated publicly with a team? Destiny is a figure by himself; he didn't need to be branded by a team.
4) You honestly believe that Destiny couldn't finance his own travel money with the amount of viewers/money he has made in the past two years?
He lost very little in comparison to the damage people did to Quantic, and potentially could have done to the E-Sport community in general. So he lost maybe a little bit of extra money, some extra mouse/keyboards/hardware/etc. and possibly some free airplane tickets. He still rakes in significant amounts of money through his stream, and continues to do whatever he wants. Destiny was barely punished in comparison the damage people did to Quantic Gaming (and it was absolutely unfair what they did).
Again, you barely did any damage to Destiny. And yet in terms of collateral damage, people have done significant amounts of damage to Quantic Gaming from a PR standpoint, not to mention the E-Sport community itself. Companies like Razer should not have to step in to deal with messes like this at all; people need to show a level of restraint and patience, that is all anyone is asking. Think before you do shit.
As stated before, players (Incontrol, Nony) and managers (EG.Alex) have gone on record stating to please do not contact sponsors. The repeated contacting of sponsors in a negative sense only hurts the community. You're not just hurting Starcraft 2; you're hurting E-Sports in general. Particularly over very small issues that could have been easily handled by the team manager. And really, this is a SMALL issue. Remember, Destiny utilized racial slurs, which was inappropriate, and unprofessional. However, people keep making a big deal out of this like Quantic was supporting a racist or some bullshit like that; not the case. All that the other side is asking for is for people to hold their fucking pitch forks and torches for more than 2 days to allow a team to get things together, settle their player down, and make a PR statement. None of that was possible in this situation, nor was it with the EG.Orb incident because some people got their panties in a wad so bad that they just HAD to get shit done right then, and right there.
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I can't believe it happened again..
1) getting Destiny (or Orb, or anyone for that matter) fired won't solve any problem, it just satisfies some offended people. The way I see it, it's a self righteous move motivated not by a will to fight racism, but by a will to exert power.
2) Are all of you really that intolerant towards mistakes? I think it's safe to assume that everyone made big mistake in their lifes, and forgiving is not only a moral way to punish, but also an inspiring way. Religion was right about that imo.
3) The way I see it, going to sponsors means that you want the sanction to be financial. In my opinion that greatly contrasts with the nature of the offense which has nothing to do with money. Sponsors won't sanction the offense, they will make a buisness decision. That means that anthing hurting their buisness will be acted upon, including things that may not even have such a clear justification.
4) What will you do when people will go to sponsors because they disagreed with a political opinion, because they don't like the player/caster, or simply because they feel like it? Will you still say such power is legitimate?
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On May 13 2012 01:56 Elitios wrote:
1) getting Destiny (or Orb, or anyone for that matter) fired won't solve any problem, it just satisfies some offended people. The way I see it, it's a self righteous move motivated not by a will to fight racism, but by a will to exert power.
This is the general feeling I have with regards to the "witch-hunt" that's going on. People say that they are against racism /etc., but it appears in this case that is appears to be purely motivated just to say "look at all this power I have over you". As soon as Destiny's name pops up for another event, his haters are going to e-mail those people to tell them to get rid of him under the guise of "you don't want to appear to be sponsoring a racist." The way things have been going on lately feel more like how a bully wants to act.
If we really wanted to fight racism / homophobia / etc. couldn't we as a community take more concrete / direct action (for example, donating to some anti-racism organization or to whoever does "It's get better") versus trying to pounce on the actions of a player? Yea it might be good to hold figures to be accountable for their actions, but I think at some point we would be better off redirecting all that energy toward solving the problem instead of beating up on our targets.
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On May 13 2012 02:55 quantumslip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 01:56 Elitios wrote:
1) getting Destiny (or Orb, or anyone for that matter) fired won't solve any problem, it just satisfies some offended people. The way I see it, it's a self righteous move motivated not by a will to fight racism, but by a will to exert power.
This is the general feeling I have with regards to the "witch-hunt" that's going on. People say that they are against racism /etc., but it appears in this case that is appears to be purely motivated just to say "look at all this power I have over you". As soon as Destiny's name pops up for another event, his haters are going to e-mail those people to tell them to get rid of him under the guise of "you don't want to appear to be sponsoring a racist." The way things have been going on lately feel more like how a bully wants to act. If we really wanted to fight racism / homophobia / etc. couldn't we as a community take more concrete / direct action (for example, donating to some anti-racism organization or to whoever does "It's get better") versus trying to pounce on the actions of a player? Yea it might be good to hold figures to be accountable for their actions, but I think at some point we would be better off redirecting all that energy toward solving the problem instead of beating up on our targets.
I know right? It's not like Destiny's behavior will change coming out of this as he realizes that actions have consequences or that he'll stop using the language or anything. Hey, and speaking of bullies, it's not like there's any chance Mitt Romney would be less actively anti-homosexual if he had been kicked out of private prep school after assaulting a "fancy" schoolmate and subsequently been punished by his parents for it, right? Because the most important thing is to complain about the messengers and cast aspersions on their motivation, rather than addressing either the source of the issue or the decision made by those that sit in judgment after being given more information?
Your "general feeling" and the entire concept of the "witch hunt" is irrelevant. You have no insight into anyone's motivation for their actions, let alone everyone's. It's not difficult to comprehend how some people might be offended by Destiny's language - or do you think the outcry here about that guy in the fighting community a few months ago was "purely motivated" by "haters" with a predetermined mindset to screw him?
Besides, the motivation doesn't matter to sponsors, nor should it. They gather information, then make a decision given what's available. If someone provides them with additional color, they update. Companies pull sponsorships all the time. A number of companies pulled advertising after the Rush Limbaugh "slut" comment, and he was kicked off the ESPN NFL broadcast after the his Donavan McNabb comments. Do you really think that those were witch hunts purely motivated by liberal socialist reverse-racist bigoted haters, as Limbaugh does? And if Gigabyte and Razer stumbled upon Destiny's words by watching his stream and took the same action, what then? Is it still a witch-hunt? Or did the companies make an informed decision based on available evidence?
Oh and as to whether Destiny's actually in any way racist or bigoted? None of us know him. All we have is his words - those he uses on stream and in public, and those he uses to tell us he's not. No different than other polarizing figures, with their comments and denials. Is his statement about toning it down in the future a realization of the risks of leaving that perception possible for future employers? I dunno, maybe.
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On May 13 2012 00:54 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:14 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. destiny lost income, the sponsors and free stuff that come with being on a team and his name is tainted, lost tl coverage because of how he acted after, so to say he suffered no consequences is erroneous at best whereas quantic lost a player who uses racist language, I'm not sure how they really lost out, if destiny didn't say racist shit then yes, they lost out on having a popular personality on their team but they would have lost out further if they had kept a player who uses racist language on their team Do you seriously think Destiny lost anything at all? The people complaining to the sponsors only hurt QuanticGaming and everyone else, not Destiny. If you wanted to hurt Destiny they would have complained to the CORRECT people, such as QuanticGaming management who could have LEGALLY FINED him, or complained to the company that runs his stream in order to take it down due to the offensive material and how it could possibly negatively affect E-Sports. Instead, they go after a team that did really no wrong at all. Yes they hired someone that is "potentially risky," but no one had ever made a big fuss about his attitude before until now. Also, since the Orb incident, Destiny for the most part was well behaved, really toning down alot of his language. But this shitstorm ensues the second Destiny slips up once. Remember, you didn't hurt Destiny at all. I guarantee 95% of his income is base off of his streaming revenues. He maybe lost 5% of his income AT BEST. Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 00:50 whiskypriest wrote:On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all. What exactly happened to Quantic again? My understand was that nothing happened to Quantic. Bad publicity for both the players and the staff of QuanticGaming, including a stigma against them now that will potentially ward off any future sponsors. That's extremely damaging, especially to an up and coming organization like Quantic. Not only did Quantic lose a popular personality on their team, their reputation has been hurt significantly by an event like this when dealing with any potential future sponsors. Meanwhile Destiny continues to badmanner on his stream while raking in the dough by the truckload. I'm sure he does care that he lost his sponsorship, but it wasn't like it was a significant blow to him that would make him think twice about his actions. It's absolutely amazing that people don't understand that they did virtually nothing to Destiny. He is still one of the most highly paid players in SC2 by sheer virtue of his streaming revenues, and he still continues to utilize his language to this day. Various pro players AND E-sport managers have gone on record pleading with the public NOT to contact sponsors and trying to strongarm teams. It's bad for E-Sports, period. Everyone that has any idea of how the industry works knows this. Not only did you do absolutely nothing to Destiny, you also hurt a team that did virtually no wrong, and potentially other teams out there that may want to get a sponsor but can't due to this incident. The continual abuse of going to sponsors will only demonstrate that the Starcraft 2 community is unstable, and these sponsors will flock to other games or other business ventures if this idiotic abuse continues (and it is VERY idiotic).
You can't say that contacting sponsors caused bad publicity. Destiny caused bad publicity. Threads on TL caused bad publicity. People sending private emails to Razer certainly didn't create publicity at all.
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The "witch hunts" are completely justified in my opinion. People need to realize that as e-sports get bigger, players need to act professional just like in every other publicized sport. Both to show respect to the sponsors as well as the sport itself. We don't need SC2 to be looked at with a CoD stereotype: a bunch of immature children calling each other faggot.
What if Tim Tebow was overheard dropping some sort of racial slur? Shit would hit the fan BIG TIME. Yeah, we aren't football or that big yet, but if we want to become bigger, we need to be a respectful and honorable community. To blame the community for outcry when their sport's public figure starts dropping racial slurs is ridiculous.
Just my two cents.
PS: To the people saying that these players got punished for what was a "single" incident, I would have to disgree. Nani, Orb, and Destiny all have histories of BM and/or rage in a public forum. That's not opinion, that's a fact irrelevent of player skill, etc. I think it's an attitude problem that needs to get fixed, not the fault of the fans.
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Yeah it is cleary healthy for a group of random people to have the power to judge, condemn and execute. It's how all healthy communities are run of course. Who am I to say otherwise?
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On a side note, I bought a new computer and mouse today. When it came to the mouse, I considered a couple of Razer products and a couple of Steelseries ones. Ended up going with the Razer, with the Destiny incident playing no effect. If I had felt that Razer had endorsed the racist language I may have strongly leaned towards going with a Steelseries product.
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EPT
