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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
racism and other minority demeaning words like nigger faggot etc. are of course REALLY stupid to say and it should not be ok to say under any circumstance EVEN if they are not meant in a demeaning manner. phrases like "fuck you" "asshole" etc. are just normal what i dont get is: destiny has been doing this for ages and now when someone posts a screenshot of destiny saying "gook" people suddenly shit their pants? jesus fuck. | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
Edit: The only way to actually get done is to email sponsors and concern them about his behavior. Sorry if this seems "extreme", but it is the only choice. Don't you remeber Orb? Don't you realize that this is the definition of "hurting eSports?" You can do whatever you want to advance your own agenda over the heads of Quantic, but anyone calling sponsors to drop a player should be ashamed. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:58 Destiny wrote: Why wouldn't I condone public use of racial slurs? It has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with racism. People can use racial slurs without being racist. People can be racist without using racial slurs. Why the fuck would I care how someone expresses them self? That's idiotic. Oh yeah, you got me. I'm one of those atheist, pro-drug legalization, pro-prostitution legalization, pro-homosexual marriage right-wing nutjobs! The disgusting thing about "political correctness" is that it doesn't seek to address any of the underlying problems that are only hinted at by certain words. People act like getting rid of certain words will get rid of the nasty thoughts/emotions/history that brought certain words into being. People act like if they could get everyone in their community to stop saying "nigger", all of the bad racism/hate towards a certain group of people would suddenly vanish. This is disingenuous and ignorant thinking that only serves to endanger freedom of expression, while offering absolutely no positive effects whatsoever. Since when has publicly endorsing certain words served to further racism? Have you seen the rap scene lately? Hollywood? Come on, man. Using a racial slur is just encapsulating decades/centuries of racist thought in one small, representative term. The term is understood to be used for that intent and to represent that by the general public. Your use of it is of absolutely no utility except for the fact that it is viewed as an offensive term, so you use it in anger. If the word had other utility, such as the word "niggardly," for example, then you'd have a point. But the only reason these words exist in the vernacular is as an offensive, racist term. You perpetuate that by continually and purposefully using it. Your obvious counter-point will be that black rappers use it with relative impunity. First of all, they don't use it with absolute impunity. There are many civil rights groups that denounce the use of this term by black rappers. Second of all, the context of the word coming from a black person is much different than coming from that of a white person. A black person could be using it to represent what his ancestors went through or using it in parody to refer to other people. When you use a racist term when you are mad after losing a video game, it doesn't quite have the same effect, especially since your racial background is much different. I'm sure you'll take issue with this seemingly arbitrary reasoning (although I do not personally believe it to be entirely or even remotely arbitrary), but the point remains that this is how contemporary society and consumers view the issue. If you want to make the best strides financially as an SC2 sponsor, this is something you MUSt take into account. | ||
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Dusen
Denmark68 Posts
On May 02 2012 02:00 Destiny wrote: I'm going to stop responding to thoughtless post like this until you respond to my questions earlier. Tell me which words a person should/shouldn't be allowed to say, and then tell me why some groups of people are protected while others aren't. Why do you have to say any of those words? | ||
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Dreycor
United Kingdom4 Posts
What you say is correct, which is why he is not persecuted legally -- he has the right to say anything he wants. He is being persecuted by the community for acting insensitive and incorrect publicly. Nobody is trying to take away his right to speak, they are trying to show their disapproval by contacting the sponsor who has the ability to punish him financially. Unless you disagree that the community is allowed to speak their mind, I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your post. Of course i agree that the community is allowed to speak their mind, it would be rather hypocritical if i said they weren't. what i'm trying to accomplish is the idea that people shouldn't be punished on the basis of opinions. If the community has the opinion that what he did was wrong then let them prove it. Opinions aren't proof. if i think someone has done something wrong should i not prove it? i compel you to prove that destiny has done something wrong and wish you luck with that. | ||
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duracell
53 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:57 Karak wrote: Incontrol, If one player's actions so offend a sponsor that the sponsor rethinks their commitment to the "sport," who should the blame fall on? The people alerting the sponsor to the player's action, or the player himself? Quantic was well aware of his reputation, his use of this language in the past and his continued use of it in the present. Like he himself said, this isn't the first time a thread like this has been brought up. They clearly don't care. If they did, they either wouldn't have signed him to a contract or they would have demanded a change in behavior and then terminated his contract when that change did not become apparent. All that said, speaking from a business perspective, it would be absurd to expect that Razer would scale back sponsorships generally to all of SC2 players based on the actions of one bad apple. That's just bad business. I agree with this. Incontrol, You should know better as a public figure than to pull the "you're hurting esports" card. If you think it will actually happen, then maybe you should use your considerable influence to address the matter whether you agree or not for continued success of esports. The whole spiel about potentially hurting so many others, so don't complain, is incredibly trite. Desinty, Quantic, even anyone involved in the esports community that stands to get hurt, should be held accountable once this becomes a public issue. | ||
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Sliver
United States402 Posts
On May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote: guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! You are shitting up this thread more than anyone here. Just stop. People who want to ruin the guy's career over this, and possibly his team's main sponsor are so childish and short sighted it's actually depressing. | ||
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Emtee
58 Posts
On May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote: guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! You seem quite mad, how about adding some relevance to this thread. Your butthurtness is quite cute though. | ||
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Digitalis
United States1043 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:57 Karak wrote: Incontrol, If one player's actions so offend a sponsor that the sponsor rethinks their commitment to the "sport," who should the blame fall on? The people alerting the sponsor to the player's action, or the player himself? Quantic was well aware of his reputation, his use of this language in the past and his continued use of it in the present. Like he himself said, this isn't the first time a thread like this has been brought up. They clearly don't care. If they did, they either wouldn't have signed him to a contract or they would have demanded a change in behavior and then terminated his contract when that change did not become apparent. All that said, speaking from a business perspective, it would be absurd to expect that Razer would scale back sponsorships generally to all of SC2 players based on the actions of one bad apple. That's just bad business. I actually(god I love saying it like that after you mentioned it) think incontrol is right on this. You really have to in the least give a team the chance to remedy the situation. We don't see how it effects the teams, going straight to the sponsors, but putting myself in the sponsors shoes, I am paying someone(in this case a SC2 team) for publicity. If they are giving me bad publicity, doing dubious thing or just in general doing stuff that reflects badly on me, I would certainly think twice about sponsoring the team. If this also becomes standard practice to talk to the sponsors, they will surely start noticing the complains coming from the SC2 community and possibly feel it's just not worth the hassle, I mean sponsors have a shitton of stuff to throw money into for publicity, they are not forced in any way to sponsor SC2 or esports. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:55 Torte de Lini wrote: Yes, you just don't see it. What doesn't come forward or public doesn't mean it didn't have the intention to do so before. I know everyone has the ability to post on TL so I guess I shouldn't be responding but it's important that other people know I guess: Yes, emailing EG's sponsors with the orb situation DID have a negative effect. EG is fortunate enough to have amazing fans who on a regular basis email our sponsors and tell em they love em and appreciate what they do for eSports. That was needed because of the people that emailed saying EG sponsors/supports a racist. Sponsors don't read every thread, they don't check forums, they don't watch every tweet.. when they get an email there is a dangerous possibility that is the ONLY message from that situation they are getting. Emails aren't filtered or edited for fairness they are 90% the emotional response from someone (when the situation is like an orb/destiny) and it's the first draft. Those emails can cause real damage in a industry (SC2) that isn't shitting gold.. we are fighting for survival. I understand you hear all the time: email sponsors! Tell em you love em! and I could understand the argument "well they need to hear the good with the bad." But that is dangerous for us. Destiny doesn't represent all of Quantic nor does he represent all of the community but when you email the sponsors about a relatively small issue you can potentially cause gargantuan ripples in a place where we can't afford said ripples. Just please trust me on this.. email the shit out of quantic. Tweet the shit out of them. Post on TL about how upset you are.. but do NOT email sponsors threatening them with things and telling them one side of a small story. | ||
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ETisME
12246 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:11 IntoTheBush wrote: First, what do you think the average age of Destiny's viewers are? I guess saying "fuck" in every sentence, and insulting people is what this community finds funny? That is what makes me feel sad about the SC2 community as a whole. When I say mature players I am talking about guys who have passed their freshman and sophmore year in college, and have figured out that saying things that are blatantly racist doesn't help anyone. How is the pornstar comment a personal attack? He put it all over his stream.. She was around when he was sort of a big deal in the community, and since then poof you haven't heard a word about her. He put his situation out there for people to see, and I am just commenting on it. If I suddenly became famous and began dating a pornstar, and 2 months later nobody knows me and she leaves what would you interperet that as? So commenting on something that he obviously felt so proud about makes me wrong? I guess it's okay for Destiny to make racial slurs, and insult others but when someone makes a comment out him they are in the wrong? Now moving on to your next comment... First, I wouldn't go as far as say that when he streams his is training lol.. It's more like he's trying to make his living. Anyway, most professional athletes have a stage to which they get to perform.. Whether it's Futbol, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Formula 1... They all have the ability to be seen by the public on a grand scale, while on the other hand Professional Gamers don't always have that luxury. It's great that he streams for the community, but how he handles himself is far from professional. ETisMe, I would love to see what you think of my questions/comments. First, both of us don't know what is the average viewer age is. However, being mature has little to do with age and education, it is to do with experience. And are you "mature"? I am not so sure. I will explain in later part. Secondly, if you don't understand the humor, just don't try to make up for reasons why we think he is entertaining. Again, as a "mature" person, one would appreciate other's enjoyment rather than downright saying the "mature" ones will not enjoy the stream. Just because he uses the word "fuck" a lot doesn't mean that is the funny part. The pornstar comment is a personal attack. J Everything you have said about that are pure speculation. And when I said personal attack, I meant it was directed to her. Just because she is a pornstar, living with someone and breaking up is also possible. I don't see how you can just come up and call her living together as a "mooch off" with Destiny. So I guess it is ok to make a complete inflammation comment, but not racial comment about someone you don't even sure of his race? Are you not "looking down" on the "lesser, younger, immature" group and making pure speculations based upon your biased "seemingly intelligent deduction"? (afterall, you have to be passing freshman and sophmore year in college, and have figured out whatever whatever to be mature, right?) As for the exposure hours. Do you know how much he stream? 288hours+ in about a month http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333483 you want to tell me that you can't see professional athletes running around and throwing racial comments? You don't even see them running outside than tournaments, let alone that amount of time difference expose to the public. He is playing lol. There is a great difference between him playing a game and training. I also Catz plays Dota 2, are you gonna say he is training Dota 2? He is almost streaming most of his private life, of cause you would see him doing other things. What do you expect? | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:55 intrigue wrote: hey, i'm a starcraft player, i understand all the social issues in the world. i think completely expressing myself however i want is fine because people who are offended are mindless pussies. hey, i'm a 17 year old black african growing up in a middle class community. someone said the word nigger to someone else on the internet, and even though ive never exprenced slavery or the institutionalized racism, im going to pretend to relate to all of that bcuz he said a certain word. oh, except this is inception because im actually a white person whos going to be offended for the black person | ||
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parkjimo
Korea (South)15 Posts
On May 02 2012 02:01 Acronysis wrote: Is it really the only choice? How about fucking waiting a little to see if anything comes of this - why not at least give Quantic a chance? What if they do come out and do somthing about it, then you just e-mailed shit to the sponsors and hurt quantic even further. Wait a little - wait things out. Don't do something stupid just because you are not patient enough to see where things go. Quantic has had chances in the past to discipline him for his terrible behavior. It is not the first time that Destiny has acted badly towards people. He calls people "faggots" or "niggers" or "gooks" or anything else he thinks is provocative enough to get attention. Quantic has never once done anything about it. In fact, they seemingly encourage it. | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:57 Karak wrote: Incontrol, If one player's actions so offend a sponsor that the sponsor rethinks their commitment to the "sport," who should the blame fall on? The people alerting the sponsor to the player's action, or the player himself? Quantic was well aware of his reputation, his use of this language in the past and his continued use of it in the present. Like he himself said, this isn't the first time a thread like this has been brought up. They clearly don't care. If they did, they either wouldn't have signed him to a contract or they would have demanded a change in behavior and then terminated his contract when that change did not become apparent. All that said, speaking from a business perspective, it would be absurd to expect that Razer would scale back sponsorships generally to all of SC2 players based on the actions of one bad apple. That's just bad business. It's not the fact that they don't like the way he's conducting himself, it's that they don't like the fact that they have to go through and read all the emails they get sent, determine whether or not these numbers will affect their sales, and then pay a team to do the math to figure out if the customer support time they spend dealing with these emails and other issues coming from one branch of their company (in this case, sponsorship of eSports, or if you want to regulate it to SC2 then do that) is worth it. Teams can look at things as an issue of morality or ethics, sponsors look at things as an issue of return on investment. If they spend time fighting PR bushfires, that's time they're not spending handling other issues or developing other parts of their company. | ||
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MaGariShun
Austria305 Posts
On May 02 2012 02:01 ScienceRob wrote: @ Destiny: I recommend a book: The rise and fall of the third Reich. The public endorsment of racial slurs has in fact caused the deaths of many millions(beyond the Nazi), in fact it is hard to not be aware of it. did you just really compare the FUCKING HOLOCAUST with destiny saying "nigger" on stream? | ||
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Slike
Greece127 Posts
I really dont understand why every time a group of people on the internet dont approve of some player/caster/whatever or the way he acts they start mailing his sponsors or team . Is because even if you stop watching and his viewers lower he ll still have a high viewer base (because guess what , people like him) ? I really hope all of you people emailing sponsors / teams and whatnot get your emails ignored , or even better get a "We dont care" response although thats highly unlikely for popularity reasons. Bottom line is , stop watching , stop caring. If something offends you , or think it offends others , ignore it and stop supporting it. Making huge whine threads emailing sponsors and asking TL to take action will not change the fact that Destiny is popular , a lot of people tune in his stream to watch him do exactly what he does and like him as a player. Have your oppinions but dont tell people what to watch and do or even worse force them your oppinions and what you think is "worthy" of watching. | ||
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Treva
United States533 Posts
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:54 nimbim wrote: Why is everyone so upset about words? I simply don't understand it. Insults, niceties, sarcasm and truth, in the end you have to make that decision for yourself anyway, since words cant relay what the person wants to say. So how about you (person who is upset about this) decide today that there shouldnt be any derogative term for any race and instead of "gook" read "garble". How about it? Words are more powerful than you think. Two things: The stuff Destiny says really is hurtful and is the reason why I don't watch this stream. You should by all means make your opinion about it heard. If he says something on stream, he puts it out there as a public figure and should face the consequences for it (he has posted enough to show that he is absolutely aware of that and has no problem facing consequences). Comparing it to the orb situation is not the best way to go about it. Orb denied what he was doing and faced consequences only after there was no way out. Destiny doesn't deny anything. So, go and tweet, write, contact Quantic and tell them your opinion. Voice it here in TL or anywhere else but don't go straight to sponsors. They are supporting the entire Quantic team as well as countless other teams and projects. If you want consequences for Destiny, write to Destiny's employer but don't make his actions bigger than they were by contacting sponsors which might affect a LARGE amount of teams and events. By doing that you have other people facing the consequences for Destiny's actions. I truly respect that Destiny stays true to his nature and doesn't do PR stuff he doesn't believe in. I just wish he wouldn't stand up for immature and disrespectful behavior. For that I have absolutely no respect. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
Since when has publicly endorsing certain words served to further racism? The single most insane thing I have ever read on TL | ||
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