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On May 01 2012 10:10 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 09:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So instead of having a tantrum and screaming that you're a townie, why don't you show that you're a townie by doing something useful? Your response to Gonzaw's case so far is to yell over and over that you're town. That's not going to convince anyone more than someone yelling that someone's scum over and over as a case.
Gonzaw said that you haven't done anything contributory. So, instead of doing something contributory, you waste a bunch of time having a back and forth with him. If his case is so horrible, and you're town, then why are you so worried about it? You say it won't stick, but instead of ignoring it, it looks like you're putting all your effort into fighting it. That doesn't seem like it fits to me. Instead, it looks like you feel inherently guilty and so you feel the need to address it.
Also, you say you're going to keep responding to cases to convince people you're town, but doing so does nothing to convince anyone of anything. You can refute what Gonzaw says, or show his case is bad, but that in no way shows that you're actually town, just that Gonzaw's case is weak.
So, if you want people to think you're town, give them a reason to think so! It's pretty simple, but you don't seem to get it. Crying that you're town doesn't make it so, playing for the town does. Your reactions to Gonzaw are just making you look scummy to me. Well, since you clearly know how to prove oneself as townie, as I believe at this point of the game you are confirmed town to everyone, would you please tell me how I should respond to that case? I've done more than yell over and over that I'm town, but if his case consists of yelling me scum over and over, why should I put any more effort in countering his case? If he is a townie, he should understand by now that repeating the same points over and over is not a proper case. Who says I'm worried? For all I care you can start making scum cases on me too. I just have a habit of answering accusations instead of running away or trying to sidestep them. I have nothing to be afraid of, why should I not defend myself? Do you think it would look better if I just ignored all your cases on me? Now that would make me look really towny wouldn't it? By refuting Gonzaw's case I am trying to get him to understand that he needs to step up his play as town if he wants to catch scum. Although if he's the scum, I guess that effort is all in vain. If you think I'm scummy, well, that's your problem for being on the wrong track. Maybe you'll see the light at some point.
I'd respond to the case either by:
A) Ignoring it if it's really that "horrible"
B) Pointing out where I've actually been doing useful things or scumhunting
C) Showing that I'm capable of scumhunting by actually joining relevant discussion in the thread
As I just finished saying, if you think his case is so bad, why are you putting so much effort into arguing with him? It's not serving any useful purpose as compared to say, spending your time looking for scum or doing pretty much anything else. Instead, it's an excuse to shit up the thread and look like you're doing something when you're not.
Also, you look pretty worried to me. For someone who's saying they're not worried, you seem to care a lot about one person's weak pressure on you. Is the whole town going after you? Are you even in danger of being lynched? It doesn't seem that way, so your posting looks like a gross over-reaction. There's nothing wrong with defending yourself from a valid case, but that's not what you're doing, or at least not what you claim you're doing.
In your own words, Gonzaw's case is horrible, but you're putting in tons of effort to defend against it. If it's so terrible, you shouldn't worry at all because you shouldn't get lynched off it unless the town is very, very, bad. Also, the way you're defending against it makes you look irrationally defensive, given the way you've completely blown up over it. So, there's even more to it than the fact that you're making big defense posts in the first place; there's the fact that you've become incredibly emotional and defensive very quickly, and for almost no reason.
If every person reacted the same way you did to slight pressure, the game would be completely unplayable. But, normally people don't react that way, and that's why it's a scum-tell.
Finally, you don't seem to get that you have done nothing to refute Gonzaw's case. If you want to refute it, start scumhunting or commenting on the scumhunting going on in the thread. Stop being useless.
p.s. Your sarcasm is cute.
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Cephiro, what will you answer this Round A? YES or NO?
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On May 01 2012 10:28 gonzaw wrote:
@Cephiro: If one of my issues I want you to address is "Cephiro is not posting any scumreads", then you have not addressed it at all, since you haven't posted any scumreads yet
I have answered this question several times. I will post my scumreads in thread once I have more evidence to back it. Unlike you, I don't feel like going around blaming everyone for whatever my little mind could come up with. I have already had multiple discussions about my reads with people via PM. I consider PMs a very good way of sharing opinions about your reads before working on a proper case on them.
The people that have asked me for my reads in PM have mostly received them, instead of crying out loud here in the thread asking for scumreads without evidence. Do you really want me to post scumreads without backing them up that bad?
On May 01 2012 10:28 gonzaw wrote:
About your question:
"Why are you not pressuring others that are guilty of the same things?"
What is that supposed to mean? I think chaoser is scum and I pressured him. I am suspicious of wbg and I pressured him.
I don't really think Ace is that suspicious (because he played similarly in Space Station Mafia), but he doing jack shit at all is still worrying.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 09:44 gonzaw wrote:At chaoser, wherebugsgo and shit:Really? You won't even post original content? Here: + Show Spoiler +On April 30 2012 18:14 gonzaw wrote:
@syllogism: Maybe we can have a plan for using the Round B votes as well.
For instance, if we unanimously decide that Player X should be lynched (and he's eligible to be lynched of course), then we can do this:
Player 1-Gives player nº2 5 votes
Player 2-Gives player n3 5 votes
...
Player X-does whatever he wants
Player X+1-Gives player nºx+2 5 votes
..
Last player- Gives player nº1 5 votes
Players not in Round B vote whoever they want but not X.
That way, the only player lynched will be player X and all the rest will be saved.
However this depends on people unanimously deciding to lynch player X and following the plan, which I doubt will happen.
We can come up with other things when the time comes, since it also depends on how many people are in Round B.
Speaking of which syllo, what do you think about the plans regarding Round A being discussed at the moment?chaoser, will you respond to the cases made against you? Will you contribute anything at all other than bickering about the plans? Really, chaoser, Ace, wherebugsgo, Cephiro, VisceraEyes, etc are only just bickering and bickering about the plans, and ignoring everything else said to them or happening in the thread. Surely all of you can't be mafia at the same time right? That would be too easy. So please start contributing and trying to hunt scum instead of just repeating the same "oh oh but you can't know who is in the majority! lol hoho" crap over and over again.
Is that what you call "pressuring wbg"? Also, can you please stop trying to be super-clever and metagaming, all you do is bring up stuff that people did in PREVIOUS GAMES. Read THIS GAME instead. Also, nice wishy-washy contradiction. "I don't think Ace is suspicious because of his meta, but it is still worrying." <-- So are you concerned of him or not?
On May 01 2012 10:28 gonzaw wrote:
Now I ask you this question:
"Why do you want me to pressure other players and not you?"
I have replied this question several times as well. Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again?
Final time: Because you are wasting your time on me if you are a townie.
On May 01 2012 10:28 gonzaw wrote:
So now you OMGUS? *sigh*
Why wouldn't you post it in the thread if you thought I'm scum?
I said it before, this is just like that Toad incident. I called him out of not contributing and not caring about the game and he spent like 5 days tunneling me and arguing with me and yet not addressing what I was accusing him from, and ended up FoSing me saying things like "you will die tomorrow" without any reasoning whatsoever
I think you are doing the same thing.
So if your play makes me suspicious it's omgus? You do realize that making a case on someone to distract others is something scum could very well do, which is why your point of OMGUS is just a clever way to sidestep accusations if you were scum.
Why I'm not posting here if I think you are scum? Because your filter is full of crap. There's nothing to separate you from a horrible townie or an pain-in-the-ass-annoying scum to me so far. Once I've got enough proof in my opinion to validate you as either, I'll post. As I've said multiple times before, I don't feel the need to go all "OMG HE MADE A TYPO, SCUMSLIP" on everyone about every smallest thing. I find one proper case much better than three horrible ones.
I find it funny how you are trying to turn it the other way around though, making a comparison to Toad tunneling you, trying to make it look like I am the one that tunnels you, when I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor?
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On May 01 2012 10:43 gonzaw wrote:
Cephiro, what will you answer this Round A? YES or NO?
None of your concern. I have sent in my answer already.
On May 01 2012 10:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
A) Ignoring it if it's really that "horrible"
B) Pointing out where I've actually been doing useful things or scumhunting
C) Showing that I'm capable of scumhunting by actually joining relevant discussion in the thread
As I just finished saying, if you think his case is so bad, why are you putting so much effort into arguing with him? It's not serving any useful purpose as compared to say, spending your time looking for scum or doing pretty much anything else. Instead, it's an excuse to shit up the thread and look like you're doing something when you're not.
A) In my opinion no town player should ignore even bad cases made on them. You shouldn't use the quality of an case as an excuse to escape defending yourself, a real townie would have no need for that.
B&C) Done and done. If I however was to post a small case on someone right now, don't you think I'd get more tunneling for "trying to sway the attention away from me?"
I don't mind being in the center of the spotlight at all, it's just I feel sad for the townies that actually might waste their time in vain being deluded.
The rest of your post is mainly bringing up B & C further, which I have already responded to how I will act to multiple times. If you're not fine with it, then keep crying or get me killed.
I sincerely hope you two are not townies. -_-
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United States2095 Posts
Its day 1, I'm comfortably ignoring all of that cephiro / gonzaw have typed so far.
If someone could make a TL:DR ?
Or is it just : I THIKN YOUR MAFIA
NO I THINK U R
forever el fin ?
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anyone continuing random useless discussion should be up for lynches if they end up in the majority of shot. The level of spam I am wading through is painful and outright useless in any productive sense. VE/meapak are guilty of this (moreso VE), and gonzaw/wiggles bashing on cephiro is just as useless. Unless you have new info for a case to make lay off the spam, it buries real posts like
On May 01 2012 07:56 prplhz wrote:
I'm very unsure about what's going on and why we're not going with the Palmogisfield-plan. Most of this has just been people not wanting to cooperate and I'm very unsure why. I'm pretty sure we could find a couple people that most everybody wouldn't vote for day1 and it only makes sense to throw them into the minority for more information (and hopefully better odds) in round B.
Ace is doing his usual and very useless "you can't have any reads on day1" thing. Then he's like "I'm just going to be an asshole no matter what you do" which is equally useless. All Ace can do day1 is yell at other people for having bad reads.
I kinda like Mr. Wiggles but I don't exactly know why. I also like Foolishness and Palmogisfield. I don't have any scum reads.
I feel like you're all speaking in russian. I'm looking forward to round B because then I'll have five votes like the rest of you that I can use however I want.
Dunno.
Hi I am coming into contribute and post nothing of real quality aside from "i like bad plans".
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Added in a filter link at the bottom of the OP. Sorry for the lag time on it. If I missed any questions addressed to us please bring it up again in thread or pm.
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On May 01 2012 10:51 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Its day 1, I'm comfortably ignoring all of that cephiro / gonzaw have typed so far.
If someone could make a TL:DR ?
Or is it just : I THIKN YOUR MAFIA
NO I THINK U R
forever el fin ?
TLDR:
Gonzaw: "CEPHIRO IS SCUM! BECAUSE X"
Cephiro: "NO I'M NOT BECAUSE Y"
Gonzaw: "CEPHIRO IS SCUM BECAUSE X"
Cephiro :"NO I'M NOT BECAUSE Y"
Gonzaw: "CEPHIRO IS SCUM BECAUSE X"
Cephiro: "CAN YOU JUST STFU AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL?"
Gonzaw: "CEPHIRO IS SCUM BECAUSE X"
Cephiro: "WHATEVER"
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On May 01 2012 10:45 Cephiro wrote:
I have answered this question several times. I will post my scumreads in thread once I have more evidence to back it. Unlike you, I don't feel like going around blaming everyone for whatever my little mind could come up with. I have already had multiple discussions about my reads with people via PM. I consider PMs a very good way of sharing opinions about your reads before working on a proper case on them.
The people that have asked me for my reads in PM have mostly received them, instead of crying out loud here in the thread asking for scumreads without evidence. Do you really want me to post scumreads without backing them up that bad?
I've already said this, but I don't want you to make gigantic cases that catch all 6 scum, I want your thoughts and reads.
Why? I don't want to see if you will catch some hidden scum I never saw, I want to see your thought process and held you accountable for your actions in the game.
I.E I want you to give us information so we can figure out your alignment (basically why everybody in the game even posts at all in the thread).
So every little "non proper case" works. If you think X is a little bit scummy, but you don't know why then post "I think X is a little bit scummy, but I don't really know why". If you think Y is very scummy but you want to make a good case later, then post "I think Y is very scummy but I want to make a good case later".
See how it works?
It's called transparency, and you have none of it at the moment.
Is that what you call "pressuring wbg"? Also, can you please stop trying to be super-clever and metagaming, all you do is bring up stuff that people did in PREVIOUS GAMES. Read THIS GAME instead. Also, nice wishy-washy contradiction. "I don't think Ace is suspicious because of his meta, but it is still worrying." <-- So are you concerned of him or not?
Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out.
Meta is a very effective tool. Most people use it very badly and just say things like "Oh, he was active in that game when he was town, he's inactive right now so he's scum".
You have to analyze behaviour and motivation when you use meta.
Here is your filter from DF2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=183812
You can instantly find differences. For instance, you are calm and analytical. In this game you are overcome by "emotion", you are very aggressive and you don't have a focus on things, you just cling on to something (arguing with me for instance) and stay with it for the rest of the game.
When people accuse you (syllogism for instance) and start shitting on you you keep your cool. Now someone FoSes you for the first time and you go on a rampage.
In that game you obviously care about the game. You post your thoughts every once in a while to keep up with discussion, and you do it in a straight manner without misdirecting or anything.
Here you don't care about discussion either. You started shitting on people for pointing out plans. Then when people want your reads you tell them you won't post shit. Then when someone takes notice of this and FoSes you you flip your shit and tunnel the hell out of him, without even caring about other things from the game. For instance, you don't care about the most important part: finding scum.
+ Show Spoiler [To save some space] +So if your play makes me suspicious it's omgus? You do realize that making a case on someone to distract others is something scum could very well do, which is why your point of OMGUS is just a clever way to sidestep accusations if you were scum.
Why I'm not posting here if I think you are scum? Because your filter is full of crap. There's nothing to separate you from a horrible townie or an pain-in-the-ass-annoying scum to me so far. Once I've got enough proof in my opinion to validate you as either, I'll post. As I've said multiple times before, I don't feel the need to go all "OMG HE MADE A TYPO, SCUMSLIP" on everyone about every smallest thing. I find one proper case much better than three horrible ones.
I find it funny how you are trying to turn it the other way around though, making a comparison to Toad tunneling you, trying to make it look like I am the one that tunnels you, when I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Yes Toad tunneled me. Did I tunnel Toad? Yes, perhaps (although it was on scum so I guess it's justified). Is it almost the same situation right now? Yes. For instance, Toad did the exact same thing you are doing right now: Cephiro this game: I find it funny how you are trying to turn it the other way around though, making a comparison to Toad tunneling you, trying to make it look like I am the one that tunnels you, when I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Toad on LI: On April 11 2012 02:19 Toadesstern wrote:
just shut up gonzaw, please. Your bringing things that are clear town treats to the discussion EVERY TIME and end up saying that's a mafia treat which is just bullshit.
I am not going to talk about new reads unless I'm 100% certain about those reads because it's night. Therefore yes I am not talking about new reads, thanks for figureing out I'm a townie and telling everyone.
Also I'm not tunneling you. I'm saying you're an idiot and that people must not listen to a word you say regarding me BECAUSE YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SHOOT ME, although everyone keeps telling you you're wrong. Tunneling would be telling everyone to kill you because I think you are mafia and honestly I really doubt you're that pushy and wrong at the same time when everyone in here tells you you're wrong.
I thought being a little tunnelish is a town treat for you but you're so overdoing it. I'd really like people to check gonzaw if there's a DT wandering around not knowing who to check for :p
Also: I've yet to go as far to say I am suspicious of you for constantly pushing a case that poor? Then what about this?: So which of the two Mafia do you belong to, the Red Hat Rat Pack or the other one?
I just can't believe that you would play that horribly as town, which is why I'm starting to become quite sure that you're scum trying to set me up.
None of your concern. I have sent in my answer already.
Yes it's of my concern, and of the concern of all town.
Why? Because I want you to be in the majority.
If you are really town, then you wouldn't mind being in the majority, right? You have all Round B to convince us you are town, so you've got nothing to hide, right?
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If you are Town of course you mind being in the majority lmao.
Who the hell wants to be a possible lynch candidate?
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Okay, after really hitting my head in the wall after reading your latest post (and boy that hurt!), I ask you of one thing.
Make one more post, which contains all the relevant things you want me to answer.
After seeing you try to rely on meta that badly, I've lost hope considering you, so I don't want to continue jabbering this any further than needed. Make one short post (or PM), I'll respond, and we'll leave it at that.
FYI: I voted in such manner that I should be in the majority, I have no fear of being in majority. You seem to like the idea of hiding behind Palmar's forgiveness though?
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I'll just mention this while we are at it:
I will held you accountable for your behaviour in the thread
If you think you can go all dandy in PM-land and do shit at all in the thread you are mistaken. PMs weren't added to take all the game there. So still contribute in the thread, post reads, post your thoughts about discussions, etc, and it will be fine.
I will held you accountable as if PMs don't even exist, so don't get all contempt with doing shit in the thread.
Again, let's try to minimize the negative impact PMs have in games.
On May 01 2012 11:14 Ace wrote:
If you are Town of course you mind being in the majority lmao.
Who the hell wants to be a possible lynch candidate?
If you are town, then you can prove you are town to people, so you don't really have to worry.
It's like telling people "Who the hell wants to be a possible lynch candidate?" in any normal game in existence even when they don't have a single vote on them.
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Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway?
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On May 01 2012 11:18 Ace wrote:
Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway?
This game seems to be a fine example of what we talked about on irc during SS
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@Cephiro: Only one question:
Who do you think is scum and why?
The fact that you are still missing the point baffles me.
FYI: I voted in such manner that I should be in the majority, I have no fear of being in majority. You seem to like the idea of hiding behind Palmar's forgiveness though
What are you implying?
I don't care about being in the majority either. Even more, I think it will be most likely that there will be more NOs than YES' this round. I know this, yet I still voted NO to follow the plan.
On May 01 2012 11:18 Ace wrote:
Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway?
Orrr maybe you can stop discussing about this useless shit and give us your reads?
Where the hell are Palmar and syllo? And Foolishness for that matter
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On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote:
Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out.
I stopped reading at this bullshit here.
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You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple:
If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority?
Scum.
Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players.
Lol wow this is easy.
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On May 01 2012 11:25 Ace wrote:
You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple:
If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority?
Scum.
Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players.
Lol wow this is easy.
don't forget that if mafia do the 2-1 voting system everyone seems to think is going to happen then they might be able to lynch one or two random mafia. instead of just townies.
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On May 01 2012 11:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote:
Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out.
I stopped reading at this bullshit here.
I meant Round A of course
On May 01 2012 11:25 Ace wrote:
You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple:
If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority?
Scum.
Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players.
Lol wow this is easy.
I'll try to keep my cool in here, but it's getting very hard to.
No, all townies won't jump into the majority, because hopefully all townies will follow the plan. This means that some townies will be in the minority, and hopefully most scum are in the majority.
Now, if you are a regular townie, you don't know if you will be in the majority or minority. Since you have to follow the plan for the sake of town, then it shouldn't matter to you if you are in the majority or minority, since it will ultimately help town (by you complying with the plan).
If you are a townie, and did end up in the majority, then you prove to others you are town and let scum die instead. So if the plan is followed perfectly, and you do your part in establishing your innocence in Round B, everything is all good and dandy and only scum die.
In more general terms, if you are town, and you being in the majority is more helpful to town, then you shouldn't have any worries about being in the majority yourself.
That is what I explained to Cephiro.
Now Ace, can you please stop bullshitting, answer my question and post your reads?
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EPT
