EPTLiar Game Mini Mafia - Page 18
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:27 Ace wrote: pro shit. I would have come up with this an hour from now so I'll just take credit for this. this is where we ##drink | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:27 Ace wrote: pro shit. I would have come up with this an hour from now so I'll just take credit for this. If you want, you can just copypaste all my arguments if gonzaw starts pressuring you and take credit for that too. Saves you a lot of effort that would be wasted otherwise. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Hey Cephiro, if you yourself say you aren't doing anything productive, then how are you a useful townie? Also, why are you so quick to call gonzaw out as tunneling you when he's only been talking about you for two pages of the thread? That's hardly tunneling, it's pressure, and you're reacting very badly to it. Why don't you want to be talked about so badly? Do you have some secret reason for needing to avoid scrutiny? ... Really, I'll make sure the next game I join has a reading and english comprehension test before entering. As for trying to answer more seriously, you are right, I am probably not the most useful townie right now. Does that make me scum? No, it doesn't. There are many others that are not being useful in the way you want them to. Are they also all scum as well? I say tunneling because he admit he would be happy to tunnel if so needed, and tunneling is something you shouldn't do in any circumstances. Although, I guess each and every one of us have our own opinions and limits about what is pressuring and what is tunnelling. You can make cases on me every single minute for all I care, I'll respond each of them if that's what is required to get the fact I am a townie into those thick heads of yours. Why I don't want to be accused with bad cases one after another that are further continued with confirmation bias and exaggeration? Because it's a waste of good town (or scum) effort that could be directed to something useful. As for having secret reasons, sure, I'll come out of the closet since you all keep asking for my secret reasons. I am a vigilante, I breadcrumbed it when I was talking to Ace about how guns still work. Satisfied? You don't think I'm being serious about claiming vig? Why not? Standard D1 play no? + Show Spoiler + If you take the claim seriously, do me a favour and get yourself lynched. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:15 Cephiro wrote: Are you scum trying to make me look bad or are you just that thickheaded? If you want me to be more productive in-thread, then how about you stop making these horrible cases I have to keep responding to. I'll post something productive when I think it is needed. I'm not gonna start posting fluff-productive crap just for the sake of making you smile. So where have I claimed I am dominating the game in PM-Land? You keep exaggerating my claims all the time on purpose, either you are unconciously using confirmation bias to convince yourself you are right, or then you are just scum doing it on purpose. If you need to know what I'm doing in PM-Land, then ASK instead of crying aloud in the thread. Or maybe you could try to earn my trust and I could reply you like anyone else I trust. Doesn't sound that hard no? For all you know I am not necessarily even pushing an agenda, but only sharing opinions and reads, yet you make it look like I am pushing for some epic plan via PMs? The "dominating PM-land" and the "hidden shit that will end the world" are obviously hyperboles. The thing is that you seem to think that you can abstain from posting in the thread just because PMs exist, and that makes it impossible to do anything for people not in the PM-loop (whether it exists or it doesn't exist and you are bluffing). I made the "horrible case" because you weren't contributing, you refused to give out scumreads when asked, and you were very aggressive against all plans being mentioned (and of course, because you weren't "productive"). Okay then: what are you doing in PM land? Are you pressuring people? Asking for reads, or giving them yourselves? Why don't you want to post anything in the thread? Why won't you post reads in the thread? Why won't you pressure people in the thread? Why do you want to be "excused" and want me to "concentrate on someone else" and let you live til lategame just so I can "analyse your play later"? That's good. Now just think a bit more before you post, at the current state your cases are in my opinion easily scrubbed off, which is something you don't want to happen, whether you are town or a scum making a fake case on a townie. So tell me how are you going to ensure you get the scum in the majority? And then ensure no-one votes them? How is it scrubbed off? Please: if someone thinks my case against Cephiro is total crap, please state so and state why I make a case against you and you instantly discredit me, turn aggrressive against me and basically misdirect everything I'm saying. Why don' t you thoroughly explain why my case is horrible and can be scrubbed off? Please I'm waiting. Also wtf? (at the bolded bit) What does that have anything to do with what we are discussing? Bolded is false, although it is one of the best methods for doing so. I will share my reads when I feel it contributes to the thread. At the moment I do not possess a completely pre-made case on anyone, and I'm not currently making one either. If you want to hear very vague opinions about why I think someone is leaning a certain way, sure. Or if you want me to make some super-complex-game-saving theory which busts all 6 scum to you right now, then you're best off looking elsewhere. No-one does such with certainty at this stage of the game. So you don't have any "pre-made" cases on anyone, you are not making cases on anyone and you don't feel you have any reads worth contributing... ...then what are you waiting for? Are you really justifying your play by saying "yep, I don't have anything to contribute so I'm not doing anything". That's scummy as shit. And take the bolded bit, again totally misdirection and strawman. I never asked you to make a super complex plan to kill all 6 scum instantly, I (or rather other people) asked for your reads and thoughts on what's happening, and asked you to contribute more (or rather accused you of not doing that). You are going to tell me that "no-on does such at this state of the game"? Tunneling in any case is retarded and just makes you look bad. Concentrated pressure while still being open for other options however is not. You can keep tunnelling me on all you want, but all you are doing is waste time of at least one townie effectively. I like how you keep up the pressure, but even if I was scum your current case is not enough, or then I've overestimated the level of our co-players. You're best of dropping it because you are currently hardcore tunneling an useful townie. Why do you think I am open and even giving you tips of making a better case on me later if I was mafia? Why do you bring up some "hidden" info shit up again? Especially about anything that would destroy the world? Are you trying to make your post look more dramatic on purpose? Now, are you finally done and ready to move to something useful, or are you going to keep tunneling? I may have chosen the word "tunneling" bad, but the point still stands. You want me to "concentrate" on someone else and "drop" this case against you...just because? You say you are an "useful townie" and use that as evidence for why my case is horrible and I should turn my attention off you. Can't you see how stupid that is? At chaoser, wherebugsgo and shit: Really? You won't even post original content? Here: + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 18:14 gonzaw wrote: @syllogism: Maybe we can have a plan for using the Round B votes as well. For instance, if we unanimously decide that Player X should be lynched (and he's eligible to be lynched of course), then we can do this: Player 1-Gives player nº2 5 votes Player 2-Gives player n3 5 votes ... Player X-does whatever he wants Player X+1-Gives player nºx+2 5 votes .. Last player- Gives player nº1 5 votes Players not in Round B vote whoever they want but not X. That way, the only player lynched will be player X and all the rest will be saved. However this depends on people unanimously deciding to lynch player X and following the plan, which I doubt will happen. We can come up with other things when the time comes, since it also depends on how many people are in Round B. Speaking of which syllo, what do you think about the plans regarding Round A being discussed at the moment? chaoser, will you respond to the cases made against you? Will you contribute anything at all other than bickering about the plans? Really, chaoser, Ace, wherebugsgo, Cephiro, VisceraEyes, etc are only just bickering and bickering about the plans, and ignoring everything else said to them or happening in the thread. Surely all of you can't be mafia at the same time right? That would be too easy. So please start contributing and trying to hunt scum instead of just repeating the same "oh oh but you can't know who is in the majority! lol hoho" crap over and over again. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
my only real contribution has been disseminating it via PMs and suggesting that we introduce an element of accountability that otherwise would not be there. In other words, if we were to assign all five votes for everyone, and they were to sheep along, we would get no information about who they believe is actually town. However, if we instead only assign four of those votes, the general gist of the plan is still followed but there is a small element of accountability introduced that requires players to justify who they think is town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
They might be exempt from lynch but that doesn't exempt them from being mafia or being accountable to the same things everyone else will be accountable for. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I know that suggested plan, but the point is that nobody will unanimously determine 1 player to be lynched. So if someone thinks that player is town, they will just give him 5 votes to try to save him. If there is a very obvious scum then yes it works, but I think we can come up with something better, like some in-game voting system that's used to determine who votes who and stuff. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:52 gonzaw wrote: To be honest...I just copypasted it from the manga so it's not like I "figured out" anything >_> I know that suggested plan, but the point is that nobody will unanimously determine 1 player to be lynched. So if someone thinks that player is town, they will just give him 5 votes to try to save him. If there is a very obvious scum then yes it works, but I think we can come up with something better, like some in-game voting system that's used to determine who votes who and stuff. so in other words, you're apparently pissed that certain people are "bickering," you are apparently concerned that chaoser is not putting forth "original" ideas, and that we have to come up with something better, yet you are content with adding more bullshit to the thread, like this and your previous post? This is what I meant by "I hope you don't play the game the same way you did LI or I'll end up subconsciously ignoring you." | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:41 Cephiro wrote: ... Really, I'll make sure the next game I join has a reading and english comprehension test before entering. As for trying to answer more seriously, you are right, I am probably not the most useful townie right now. Does that make me scum? No, it doesn't. There are many others that are not being useful in the way you want them to. Are they also all scum as well? I say tunneling because he admit he would be happy to tunnel if so needed, and tunneling is something you shouldn't do in any circumstances. Although, I guess each and every one of us have our own opinions and limits about what is pressuring and what is tunnelling. You can make cases on me every single minute for all I care, I'll respond each of them if that's what is required to get the fact I am a townie into those thick heads of yours. Why I don't want to be accused with bad cases one after another that are further continued with confirmation bias and exaggeration? Because it's a waste of good town (or scum) effort that could be directed to something useful. As for having secret reasons, sure, I'll come out of the closet since you all keep asking for my secret reasons. I am a vigilante, I breadcrumbed it when I was talking to Ace about how guns still work. Satisfied? You don't think I'm being serious about claiming vig? Why not? Standard D1 play no? + Show Spoiler + If you take the claim seriously, do me a favour and get yourself lynched. So instead of having a tantrum and screaming that you're a townie, why don't you show that you're a townie by doing something useful? Your response to Gonzaw's case so far is to yell over and over that you're town. That's not going to convince anyone more than someone yelling that someone's scum over and over as a case. Gonzaw said that you haven't done anything contributory. So, instead of doing something contributory, you waste a bunch of time having a back and forth with him. If his case is so horrible, and you're town, then why are you so worried about it? You say it won't stick, but instead of ignoring it, it looks like you're putting all your effort into fighting it. That doesn't seem like it fits to me. Instead, it looks like you feel inherently guilty and so you feel the need to address it. Also, you say you're going to keep responding to cases to convince people you're town, but doing so does nothing to convince anyone of anything. You can refute what Gonzaw says, or show his case is bad, but that in no way shows that you're actually town, just that Gonzaw's case is weak. So, if you want people to think you're town, give them a reason to think so! It's pretty simple, but you don't seem to get it. Crying that you're town doesn't make it so, playing for the town does. Your reactions to Gonzaw are just making you look scummy to me. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:44 gonzaw wrote: The "dominating PM-land" and the "hidden shit that will end the world" are obviously hyperboles. The thing is that you seem to think that you can abstain from posting in the thread just because PMs exist, and that makes it impossible to do anything for people not in the PM-loop (whether it exists or it doesn't exist and you are bluffing). I made the "horrible case" because you weren't contributing, you refused to give out scumreads when asked, and you were very aggressive against all plans being mentioned (and of course, because you weren't "productive"). Okay then: what are you doing in PM land? Are you pressuring people? Asking for reads, or giving them yourselves? Why don't you want to post anything in the thread? Why won't you post reads in the thread? Why won't you pressure people in the thread? Why do you want to be "excused" and want me to "concentrate on someone else" and let you live til lategame just so I can "analyse your play later"? If you are trying to make a serious case, then stop using hyperboles. Does it look like I am abstaining from posting? When I am online I am constantly responding to anything going on as I read it, how about you try to blame some of the real lurkers of that? And yeah, sure, I'm just bluffing about everything. In reality I am here sitting on my ass, trying to make a record on how many cases I can get on myself as townie without dying. You are twisting my words AGAIN here. You keep exaggerating and lying, if you keep doing it I see no reason to respond to you anymore. You claim I have refused to give out my _scum_reads when asked. That is false. All I have refused is that I did not give any of my reads to syllo. Do you have a problem with that? If you think I've been aggressive so far, then you clearly don't know my play at all, which is why your metagaming arguments are even more useless than they ever could be. I am doing several things in PM-Land, which of certain are none of your concern. I can say I am both asking and giving opinions and reads, but I see no reason to tell you more. Your last paragraph is a copy-paste with a few new words from earlier posts of yours. Stop making up the same lies all over and over again. I am not going to respond to the same questions five times if you haven't learned to read. Here's a free tip: You don't make a proper case by asking same questions over and over again until they are annoyed and can't be assed to answer it for the 5th time. On May 01 2012 09:44 gonzaw wrote: How is it scrubbed off? Please: if someone thinks my case against Cephiro is total crap, please state so and state why I make a case against you and you instantly discredit me, turn aggrressive against me and basically misdirect everything I'm saying. Why don' t you thoroughly explain why my case is horrible and can be scrubbed off? Please I'm waiting. Also wtf? (at the bolded bit) What does that have anything to do with what we are discussing? How is it not? From my point of view you are just repeating same points over and over, exaggerating, unconciously (or on purpose but pretending not to) using confirmation bias. And you keep attacking me only when there are several other players that do many of the aforementioned things in a worse manner than I. I don't need to discredit you. All I am saying your case on me is horrible so far, which in my opinion it is. No need to misdirect. All I'm saying is do everyone a favour and make one proper case on me once you have more material, rather than posting the same questions over and over again and pretending to be a retard and not understanding my answers, or just skipping them altogether. If you were properly reading my posts, you wouldn't even ask questions such as your confusion about my bolded part. On May 01 2012 09:44 gonzaw wrote: So you don't have any "pre-made" cases on anyone, you are not making cases on anyone and you don't feel you have any reads worth contributing... ...then what are you waiting for? Are you really justifying your play by saying "yep, I don't have anything to contribute so I'm not doing anything". That's scummy as shit. And take the bolded bit, again totally misdirection and strawman. I never asked you to make a super complex plan to kill all 6 scum instantly, I (or rather other people) asked for your reads and thoughts on what's happening, and asked you to contribute more (or rather accused you of not doing that). You are going to tell me that "no-on does such at this state of the game"? I have reads, but there is no point in it for me to share them at this point, as I do not have enough evidence to back it up. I'd rather wait a moment longer and make a proper case, rather than you who are grabbing at every single small straw and trying to make something out of it. The last part was simply the same exaggeration you keep using, I wanted to see if you'll call me out for something you are constantly doing yourself. Also, if you didn't misunderstand my messages on purpose, you would clearly understand that the bolded sentence was refering to the exaggerated line just before it, basically: No-one provides certain all scum with certainty at this point of the game. Feel free to prove me wrong however. On May 01 2012 09:44 gonzaw wrote: I may have chosen the word "tunneling" bad, but the point still stands. You want me to "concentrate" on someone else and "drop" this case against you...just because? You say you are an "useful townie" and use that as evidence for why my case is horrible and I should turn my attention off you. Can't you see how stupid that is? CAN YOU PLEASE STOP TWISTING MY WORDS EVERY FUCKING TWO SENTENCES YOU MAKE? If you want a proper case, don't twist things as to how you see them, but look at them objectively. You're just wasting everyones time at the moment. Read my response to Wiggles if you still didn't find enough reasoning. You are YET AGAIN asking me the SAME QUESTIONS for god knows how many times already. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:53 chaoser wrote: one, you posted that in response to syllo, who wanted palmar to be king. Unless it's just one person in the minority, the plan will fall apart. The more people in the minority group, the more likely the votes will be fucked up because there's more people who aren't in the cycle and that means more chances for votes to not go correctly and we wil lbe unable to account for their votes and figure out a discrepancy if it comes up. not to mention you don't even bring up the idea that people should only give 4 votes to people instead of all 5 that wbg brought up to me. How is that stealing? You posted the exact same one posted before, and it was like 80% of your post. Also I said I didn't think that idea was good the moment I posted it, so whether it gives 4 or 5 votes is irrelevant. And what does that have to do with syllo? Palmar made that plan of his way after I mentioned that to syllo. Now chaoser, can you respond to my case and Foolishness case against you? Do you have any reasoning behind any scumreads of yours other than "Palmar is scum"? On May 01 2012 09:55 wherebugsgo wrote: so in other words, you're apparently pissed that certain people are "bickering," you are apparently concerned that chaoser is not putting forth "original" ideas, and that we have to come up with something better, yet you are content with adding more bullshit to the thread, like this and your previous post? This is what I meant by "I hope you don't play the game the same way you did LI or I'll end up subconsciously ignoring you." What bullshit are you talking about? Yes, you guys are only talking about how you hate the plans being mentioned, and that's it. Are you going to refute that? For instance wbg, what do you think about my case on chaoser and Cephiro? Do you have any scumreads? If so, why do you think so? About Cephiro: Omg this is the Toad incident all over again. Okay, I won't argue more with you and this is the only thing I'll say: Cephiro is not posting any reads, contributing at all, and is only trying to argue the hell out of me right now and clog up the thread instead of addressing the issues I mentioned So town, read this, read Cephiro's posts, and tell me what you think; I won't clog the thread up any more with this stupid back and forth Cephiro is making | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So instead of having a tantrum and screaming that you're a townie, why don't you show that you're a townie by doing something useful? Your response to Gonzaw's case so far is to yell over and over that you're town. That's not going to convince anyone more than someone yelling that someone's scum over and over as a case. Gonzaw said that you haven't done anything contributory. So, instead of doing something contributory, you waste a bunch of time having a back and forth with him. If his case is so horrible, and you're town, then why are you so worried about it? You say it won't stick, but instead of ignoring it, it looks like you're putting all your effort into fighting it. That doesn't seem like it fits to me. Instead, it looks like you feel inherently guilty and so you feel the need to address it. Also, you say you're going to keep responding to cases to convince people you're town, but doing so does nothing to convince anyone of anything. You can refute what Gonzaw says, or show his case is bad, but that in no way shows that you're actually town, just that Gonzaw's case is weak. So, if you want people to think you're town, give them a reason to think so! It's pretty simple, but you don't seem to get it. Crying that you're town doesn't make it so, playing for the town does. Your reactions to Gonzaw are just making you look scummy to me. Well, since you clearly know how to prove oneself as townie, as I believe at this point of the game you are confirmed town to everyone, would you please tell me how I should respond to that case? I've done more than yell over and over that I'm town, but if his case consists of yelling me scum over and over, why should I put any more effort in countering his case? If he is a townie, he should understand by now that repeating the same points over and over is not a proper case. Who says I'm worried? For all I care you can start making scum cases on me too. I just have a habit of answering accusations instead of running away or trying to sidestep them. I have nothing to be afraid of, why should I not defend myself? Do you think it would look better if I just ignored all your cases on me? Now that would make me look really towny wouldn't it? By refuting Gonzaw's case I am trying to get him to understand that he needs to step up his play as town if he wants to catch scum. Although if he's the scum, I guess that effort is all in vain. If you think I'm scummy, well, that's your problem for being on the wrong track. Maybe you'll see the light at some point. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 10:07 gonzaw wrote: About Cephiro: Omg this is the Toad incident all over again. Okay, I won't argue more with you and this is the only thing I'll say: Cephiro is not posting any reads, contributing at all, and is only trying to argue the hell out of me right now and clog up the thread instead of addressing the issues I mentioned So town, read this, read Cephiro's posts, and tell me what you think; I won't clog the thread up any more with this stupid back and forth Cephiro is making I addressed every issue that you pointed out. If you really can't read worth that, that's not my problem. Poor townies that end up wasting their time on reading all that crap. So gonzaw, you claim that I have not addressed the issues you've mentioned, but you've sidestepped every question I've posed you, such as why are you not pressuring others that are guilty of the same things, maybe in an even worse manner? Such as your jab at Ace which didn't even get any kind of response really. Although, you'd do everyone a favour if you just stepped back and thought about things for a while instead of trying to convince everyone I am scum. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:20 Katina wrote: There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance. Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up. This to me is a way to downplay what mafia do. Anyone who has played a game with Ace when he is red, myself when I am an active red, bugs, foolishness, sandro day 1, know that deception in pm's can be relatively easy. As such the expectation of a 2-1 split would make sense however it is entirely possible people vote in a block of 3 at near no danger to themselves. This is a very simple concept. Now, I say this is a scumtell as its downplaying a very simple mafia move, as well as covering up for the absolute statement she used before of "the mafia team will always be voting in a 2 to 1 method" This is an absolute. It speaks with a level of assurance behind it, thus one made with discussion with people. Only mafia would really need to decide on how they intend to vote. Ace so far is making a ton of sense, will continue to read now. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
About your question: "Why are you not pressuring others that are guilty of the same things?" What is that supposed to mean? I think chaoser is scum and I pressured him. I am suspicious of wbg and I pressured him. I don't really think Ace is that suspicious (because he played similarly in Space Station Mafia), but he doing jack shit at all is still worrying. Now I ask you this question: "Why do you want me to pressure other players and not you?" About the PM: So which of the two Mafia do you belong to, the Red Hat Rat Pack or the other one? I just can't believe that you would play that horribly as town, which is why I'm starting to become quite sure that you're scum trying to set me up. So now you OMGUS? *sigh* Why wouldn't you post it in the thread if you thought I'm scum? I said it before, this is just like that Toad incident. I called him out of not contributing and not caring about the game and he spent like 5 days tunneling me and arguing with me and yet not addressing what I was accusing him from, and ended up FoSing me saying things like "you will die tomorrow" without any reasoning whatsoever I think you are doing the same thing. @BC: Please read the thread and post your thoughts on my plan, and on the cases being made on chaoser and Cephiro | ||
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