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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:31 Radfield wrote: Lets imagine all town followed a plan of putting the most pro-town players on the minority, and everyone else on the majority. Where does that plan go wrong? The most Pro-Town players aren't the Confirmed Town players. That is a dumb idea. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:28 gonzaw wrote: So why not create discussion about something else? Why not contribute in other manners? Why not doing anything productive other than bickering against every single plan being discussed and then disappearing from the face of the earth? Also like I said, I don't see you being this "opposed" to plans. I read Death Factory and you were making plans all over the place. I don't believe you when you say "I honestly think all D1 plan discussions are stupid". Just because I am not doing something productive in your opinion, _in the thread_, does not mean I wouldn't actually be doing productive stuff. Everything I do has a reason. As for "disappearing from the face of earth", as much as I like mafia games, even I have a life to live. I am not opposed to plans if they are good. So far I don't like what I see, and I have no game-breaking plan to offer either. Just because I was doing some "super-mega-epic-plan" in an earlier game does not mean I would do it in this game. Just stop trying to metagame, you are shooting yourself in the head. Whatever I have done in any games before does in no way relate to what I do now. I do not say that "All D1 plan discussions are stupid", but that statement is true to my opinion when we are talking about the D1 of this game in this thread. On May 01 2012 08:28 gonzaw wrote: How about BOTH making a plan and finding scum? I'm trying to find scum and I think I found 2, so how can you tell me I'm doing otherwise? You can't seriously oppose plans because you think nobody will find scum. The plans come 2nd in finding scum, they've always been, so you can't seriously use that to justify your hatred against plans. I have no hatred against plans, you are just overthinking and confirmation biasing your own thoughts. You think you found 2 scum, well good for you. Now come up with enough evidence so that the town believes you, and then we'll see if we can get them killed? On May 01 2012 08:28 gonzaw wrote: You should give reads in the thread. You may not trust syllo, but surely you trust all townies right? If you post your reads in the thread you are 100% guaranteed THAT ALL TOWNIES WILL READ THEM. Even so, if you are doing this all in PM land, why did you say before that you will only use PMs to answer questions and stuff? Why would you make up "false reads" in the thread? Wut? I did not say I will use PMs to only answer questions, you've misunderstood once again. Also, I just explained the thing about false reads. Read it again. Basically: If I have information that I do not scum want to know, why on earth should I make it public for them? I'll gladly share my reads which do not involve information scum can benefit about in such a manner, but certain things are best kept secret, or shared with only a few chosen ones. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:39 Cephiro wrote: You think you found 2 scum, well good for you. Now come up with enough evidence so that the town believes you, and then we'll see if we can get them killed? You gonna let him just talk to you like that? If it was me there is no way that would happen. Stand up for yourself. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
That's my story. I'll provide reasoning if any of these players are in the majority in Phase B. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:39 Ace wrote: The most Pro-Town players aren't the Confirmed Town players. That is a dumb idea. I'm done talking to you, as you are deliberately twisting words and not even trying to follow along. I am actively committed to working together and co-operation. Is anyone else? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Anything beyond that is malleable. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:41 Ace wrote: You gonna let him just talk to you like that? If it was me there is no way that would happen. Stand up for yourself. Does it look like I am not replying to him? I stand by what I said. And as I already explained to him via PM, he is wasting his time on me at the moment. Most of his case is purely out of metagame, which is useless. It just won't do. I feel like I've explained anything I needed to, if you disagree, feel free to continue in thread or via PM, I am fine with either. Funny that you talk about standing for oneself when your play in-thread so far does not look much more impressive either. But I have my beliefs of why you are doing what you are doing, which is why I do not see a reason to pressure you about it, yet. If you want to pressure me for somewhat the same to an lesser extent, feel free to. I am always ready to defend myself and improve my play. Just not necessarily to fit the format of play you consider optimal. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:51 Ace wrote: I don't need to stand up for myself though - people know I'm invincible to being lynched. #FinalBossStatus Doesn't matter, guns still exist... they do the job quite well too. :p | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:39 Cephiro wrote: Just because I am not doing something productive in your opinion, _in the thread_, does not mean I wouldn't actually be doing productive stuff. Everything I do has a reason. As for "disappearing from the face of earth", as much as I like mafia games, even I have a life to live. I am not opposed to plans if they are good. So far I don't like what I see, and I have no game-breaking plan to offer either. Just because I was doing some "super-mega-epic-plan" in an earlier game does not mean I would do it in this game. Just stop trying to metagame, you are shooting yourself in the head. Whatever I have done in any games before does in no way relate to what I do now. I do not say that "All D1 plan discussions are stupid", but that statement is true to my opinion when we are talking about the D1 of this game in this thread. Yeah, I think you are not doing anything productive in the thread, why wouldn't you? I don't know what "reasons" you are talking about, how am I supposed to believe you? What "reasons" are they? If you want me to stop "wasting my time" (thing from PM), then why don't you post in the thread something productive? You are just telling me "I'm doing an awesome pro-town job in PM land, you just have to believe me. Oh I won't do shit in the thread, but believe me I'm dominating the game in PM-Land *wink* *wink*" How the fuck am I supposed to believe you? Or even if that was true (that you are PMing with people and shit), I still won't know what you are doing, so I still won't know if what you are doing is pushing a scum agenda or not. I have no hatred against plans, you are just overthinking and confirmation biasing your own thoughts. You think you found 2 scum, well good for you. Now come up with enough evidence so that the town believes you, and then we'll see if we can get them killed? I made a post pointing out the evidence I found. The only way to get scum killed is for them to be in the majority, and have nobody else vote for them. I want people to post their opinions on what I posted, and let them decide if they will vote for you/chaoser or not. If they don't, then yes I'm "trying to get them killed". I did not say I will use PMs to only answer questions, you've misunderstood once again. Also, I just explained the thing about false reads. Read it again. Basically: If I have information that I do not scum want to know, why on earth should I make it public for them? I'll gladly share my reads which do not involve information scum can benefit about in such a manner, but certain things are best kept secret, or shared with only a few chosen ones. So let me get this straight: The only way to lynch scum, is to have other townies not vote for them in Round B The only way other townies won't vote for them in Round B is if they know they are scum The only way they will know they are scum is if you post your scumread in the thread and post a convincing case against them Reciprocally, if you don't post your scumreads in the thread you won't be able to get scum lynched. So please, post your scumreads, thoughts about chaoser and other players. In response to your PM: Point is, you're best off not trying to continue pressuring me based on your current suspicions, as they've lead you to false conclusions. I don't mind defending myself at all, especially if you feel like I do something that you find scummy. But for now, you'd be best off dropping it, concentrating on others, and observing my play and see if you can find flaws later on. Even if I would be mafia, what you have wouldn't be enough to convince people. And trust me, some things are best left out of the thread. I also have not contradicted myself. Why am I best off "dropping it"? Why do you want me to "concentrate on others"? If I think you are scum, why would I concentrate on somebody else? By the same reasoning, I concentrate on someone else, and that player will tell me to "concentrate on someone else" as well. Dude, wtf is that all about? If there is some "hidden" info you have that will destroy the world if revealed, then I don't care don't post it. But contribute, post reads, thoughts, care about the game in the thread if you are town; if not you'll only make me tunnel you more. To Ace: On May 01 2012 08:41 Ace wrote: You gonna let him just talk to you like that? If it was me there is no way that would happen. Stand up for yourself. ??? Who are you talking to? Cephiro or me? Also Ace, you aren't doing anything productive at all either, so please take the same advice I gave to Cephiro and start contributing. About PMs: I'd advise you guys to post everything you can in the thread, if not this will be a fucking boring game where 70% of townies won't do shit at all, just like Space Station Mafia. Just use PMs if there are special private things to discuss, like plans, gambits, claims, special information, etc. *sigh* I remember why I hate PM games all of a sudden. This shit is so exhausting, I barely had free time since I woke up to do anything else.. I'll take a small break for now | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
A) Having a smaller number players in the majority is more advantageous than having a larger number. This should be self-evident, but the smaller the majority, the better chance town has of keeping townies alive and lynching mafia. Foolishless laid it out quite well earlier. how is it more advantageous again? if people are in risk of being lynched/killed, they're more likely to talk and so it's easier to find mafia...how is more people in round 2 bad??? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:58 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, I think you are not doing anything productive in the thread, why wouldn't you? I don't know what "reasons" you are talking about, how am I supposed to believe you? What "reasons" are they? If you want me to stop "wasting my time" (thing from PM), then why don't you post in the thread something productive? You are just telling me "I'm doing an awesome pro-town job in PM land, you just have to believe me. Oh I won't do shit in the thread, but believe me I'm dominating the game in PM-Land *wink* *wink*" How the fuck am I supposed to believe you? Or even if that was true (that you are PMing with people and shit), I still won't know what you are doing, so I still won't know if what you are doing is pushing a scum agenda or not. Are you scum trying to make me look bad or are you just that thickheaded? If you want me to be more productive in-thread, then how about you stop making these horrible cases I have to keep responding to. I'll post something productive when I think it is needed. I'm not gonna start posting fluff-productive crap just for the sake of making you smile. So where have I claimed I am dominating the game in PM-Land? You keep exaggerating my claims all the time on purpose, either you are unconciously using confirmation bias to convince yourself you are right, or then you are just scum doing it on purpose. If you need to know what I'm doing in PM-Land, then ASK instead of crying aloud in the thread. Or maybe you could try to earn my trust and I could reply you like anyone else I trust. Doesn't sound that hard no? For all you know I am not necessarily even pushing an agenda, but only sharing opinions and reads, yet you make it look like I am pushing for some epic plan via PMs? On May 01 2012 08:58 gonzaw wrote: I made a post pointing out the evidence I found. The only way to get scum killed is for them to be in the majority, and have nobody else vote for them. I want people to post their opinions on what I posted, and let them decide if they will vote for you/chaoser or not. If they don't, then yes I'm "trying to get them killed". That's good. Now just think a bit more before you post, at the current state your cases are in my opinion easily scrubbed off, which is something you don't want to happen, whether you are town or a scum making a fake case on a townie. So tell me how are you going to ensure you get the scum in the majority? And then ensure no-one votes them? On May 01 2012 08:58 gonzaw wrote: So let me get this straight: The only way to lynch scum, is to have other townies not vote for them in Round B The only way other townies won't vote for them in Round B is if they know they are scum The only way they will know they are scum is if you post your scumread in the thread and post a convincing case against them Reciprocally, if you don't post your scumreads in the thread you won't be able to get scum lynched. So please, post your scumreads, thoughts about chaoser and other players. Bolded is false, although it is one of the best methods for doing so. I will share my reads when I feel it contributes to the thread. At the moment I do not possess a completely pre-made case on anyone, and I'm not currently making one either. If you want to hear very vague opinions about why I think someone is leaning a certain way, sure. Or if you want me to make some super-complex-game-saving theory which busts all 6 scum to you right now, then you're best off looking elsewhere. No-one does such with certainty at this stage of the game. On May 01 2012 08:58 gonzaw wrote: Why am I best off "dropping it"? Why do you want me to "concentrate on others"? If I think you are scum, why would I concentrate on somebody else? By the same reasoning, I concentrate on someone else, and that player will tell me to "concentrate on someone else" as well. Dude, wtf is that all about? If there is some "hidden" info you have that will destroy the world if revealed, then I don't care don't post it. But contribute, post reads, thoughts, care about the game in the thread if you are town; if not you'll only make me tunnel you more. Tunneling in any case is retarded and just makes you look bad. Concentrated pressure while still being open for other options however is not. You can keep tunnelling me on all you want, but all you are doing is waste time of at least one townie effectively. I like how you keep up the pressure, but even if I was scum your current case is not enough, or then I've overestimated the level of our co-players. You're best of dropping it because you are currently hardcore tunneling an useful townie. Why do you think I am open and even giving you tips of making a better case on me later if I was mafia? Why do you bring up some "hidden" info shit up again? Especially about anything that would destroy the world? Are you trying to make your post look more dramatic on purpose? Now, are you finally done and ready to move to something useful, or are you going to keep tunneling? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:59 chaoser wrote: how is it more advantageous again? if people are in risk of being lynched/killed, they're more likely to talk and so it's easier to find mafia...how is more people in round 2 bad??? As I said, Foolishness laid it out pretty well earlier. Remember that our goal for Round 2 is twofold. Keep townies alive, and kill scum. Both of those things get harder to do the more players there are in the majority. The reason it gets harder is because the town's voting power gets spread out, while the mafia's stays consistent. I'm honestly not that interested in discussing it though, I'm too busy measuring my girth. In other news, if people are this unwilling to co-operate in round 2, we've almost already lost. People helter-skelter voting in round 2 just ensures that mafia have maximum ability to manipulate the totals. If you would like to work together in round 2 to intelligently and cooperatively place votes in a fashion to keep the maximum amount of townies alive, while simultaneously killing off the scummy players, please PM me. I intend to form a block of townies who want to work together when placing their votes. This will not be a clandestine operation, but one with transparency and reasoning, and one in which everyone gets a say. If you would like to join in and cooperate in round 2 please PM me. If you want to just vote however you see fit, then please PM Ace, as he's forming a dick measuring and beer drinking club. It's less work and more fun, so make sure you PM him. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
If you have a system in place to make it so that round 2 proceeds in an orderly manner then everything works out perfectly. I sent this to WBG already but I'll post it here as well. for round two, it's based on whoever has the lowest points will be lynched right? so I was thinking of basing it on a gradient system. Most scummy, no points. We then have the rest pass points in a system following the player order. so lets say it's like 5 people in the majority and 1 person in the minority. that's 25 points. lets say we think a is mafia. so the players are a, b, c, d, e, f we think f is townie so he's in minority cause we need one. we move onto round 2. b gives all his points to c, c gives all his points to d, d gives to e, e gives to b. If we all circle then a will have zero points. even if mafia was trying to save a, the two teams members would have to give 6 points total to save him. Because of the circle system, there's no way a can make back the deficient with his 5 points for both his teammates; one of his teammates will be adjacent to someone without 5 votes. That person is also mafia then. f will be giving his votes, spread as evenly as possible, into the crowd of b, c, d, e. If things look wrong then f is suspicious. WBG suggested to me that we do it so that everyone only cycles 4 votes and they give their one vote to whomever they want so that accountability would be an element and I agree. There's no way a would be able to get out of this situation unless his teammates out themselves. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:24 chaoser wrote: here, let me ask a question to you radfield. What's the difference between people in the minority and the majority? Minority can't die right? Why would you take away a threat to a player like that? It makes no sense. If you have a system in place to make it so that round 2 proceeds in an orderly manner then everything works out perfectly. I sent this to WBG already but I'll post it here as well. for round two, it's based on whoever has the lowest points will be lynched right? so I was thinking of basing it on a gradient system. Most scummy, no points. We then have the rest pass points in a system following the player order. so lets say it's like 5 people in the majority and 1 person in the minority. that's 25 points. lets say we think a is mafia. so the players are a, b, c, d, e, f we think f is townie so he's in minority cause we need one. we move onto round 2. b gives all his points to c, c gives all his points to d, d gives to e, e gives to b. If we all circle then a will have zero points. even if mafia was trying to save a, the two teams members would have to give 6 points total to save him. Because of the circle system, there's no way a can make back the deficient with his 5 points for both his teammates; one of his teammates will be adjacent to someone without 5 votes. That person is also mafia then. f will be giving his votes, spread as evenly as possible, into the crowd of b, c, d, e. If things look wrong then f is suspicious. WBG suggested to me that we do it so that everyone only cycles 4 votes and they give their one vote to whomever they want so that accountability would be an element and I agree. There's no way a would be able to get out of this situation unless his teammates out themselves. pro shit. I would have come up with this an hour from now so I'll just take credit for this. | ||
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