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hey guys just got back. skimmed through a bit seems there's a lot to respond to. unfortunately I have to sleep and get up early, have an interview tomorrow. won't be able to read through and respond thoroughly till tomorrow afternoon.
I will just say that I can't believe arctic and dittert playing dumb anymore. Maybe it really is me and I'm not being clear but I don't think that's the case. I think they are pretending to not understand some pretty straightforward statements. I'm not going to reiterate myself over and over again to you guys as it is getting ridiculous.
you accuse me:
I read in the mafia guides that a key mafia tell is trying to rehash old things over and over again.
yet you are the one that is doing this. you are the one that keeps bringing up my first post and saying it contains no substance.
you (and others) keep saying I haven't said anything. I reiterate what I have said to try to make clear what I have said and then get accused of not saying anything anymore.
I want to make a bigger contribution than going in circles with you. Which I plan to do tomorrow.
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Okay, I have to spend all morning doing bureaucratic crap. This post is mainly a throwaway post. I just wanted to get this opinion out there:
HiroPro's posting is either scum or insultingly bad town. He trumps up random reasons for thinking someone is scummy, despite having done the exact same thing himself. When caught out his excuse is that he cannot look at timestamps. He moves his vote around without explanation and seems more interested in creating strife within town than finding scum. A decent analysis when I get back.
I am no longer as firmly in the willz is town camp. The way he has been posting at night set my alarmbells a ringing. Will have to take a better look in a couple of hours.
Sorry, that's all I have time for at the moment. Just wanted this out there.
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vonKlaust, I want to hear why I'm your biggest Mafia read at the moment. So far you've only said that you're "unsure" about me, and that the flaws in my ArcticFox case could have been just "bad reasoning", yet I'm the most likely person to be Mafia? You have never actually made a case against me or said anything definite about me, except that I'm your main Mafia read (without any real reasoning). For now, I'm keeping my vote on you, but you can try to convince me otherwise.
trumpetarn, you HAVE to post something. I have a feeling Mafia wouldn't lurk so hardcore (big risk of policy lynch or Vigi shoot), but that's just WIFOM, and you might actually only want us to think like that. Even if you are town, you are completely useless right now. I don't have any clear read on you, except that you are a detriment to us with your playstyle. Please step up your game or stop playing forum Mafia.
HiroPro, I'm a bit suspicious of your (apparently) careless reasoning for wanting to lynch vonKlaust. Was your reasoning really based on misread time stamps? I find it hard to believe you would accidentally misread his filter so badly and then decide he should be lynched. Also, you haven't done yet anything outside of tunneling against me and vonKlaust. I want to hear your top Mafia reads and a convincing case of your own, not just jumping on someone else's bandwagon with weak reasoning.
imallinson, I noticed a couple of suspicious things about your filter. First of all, this:
On April 13 2012 04:18 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 03:52 Xatalos wrote:On April 13 2012 03:41 imallinson wrote:
EBWOP: I think I've said all I want on Arctic at the moment. He definitely has gone some way to alleviating my suspicions of him. I'm going to read through some of the more lurky players filters to see if there is anything suspicious there beyond them not posting. Hmm.. I'll definitely want to hear your opinions on other players than ArcticFox or Dittert. Willz was right in that you didn't really push anything of your own, but rather followed behind. That doesn't look good in my eyes. Also, I wonder about your fast change of heart earlier - your first reaction was to label me as a possible Mafia for suspecting you (OMGUS reaction) and right after that you started agreeing with me on everything. How does that work? I never thought you were mafia and wasn't trying to label you as such. I was just pointing out that what you had said about me wasn't quite accurate. Also this was before you had posted your suspicions on Arctic. You posting those suspicions definitely reinforced you as being probably town in my head.
This post is an almost complete lie. If you look at my filter, I made my case against ArcticFox FIRST and only noticed your (suspicious) post after that. So your reasoning for first saying I'm Mafia and then backing off is extremely questionable, based on this post at least. And you say you never suspected me to begin with? Then what was this post all about:
On April 12 2012 16:54 imallinson wrote:
@ Xatalos
I didn't mention blue reads at all. I said lurker lynches can get a blue who is trying to hide in the shadows. I never mentioned anyone I thought was blue or how we would figure a blue out. You seem to be looking so hard for slip ups you are making some yourself.
What is that if not accusing me of a Mafia slip? You never said directly I was Mafia, but looking at this sentence, I can see no reason to post it unless you thought I was Mafia. So why did you say later on that you never thought I was suspicious at all?
Other potentially suspicious bits from your filter:
- Your first post is very vague and hesitant, typical for a Mafia first post.
- Your two Mafia reads so far have been ArcticFox (easy to jump on after me) and trumpetarn (a hardcore lurker who wouldn't defend himself). If Acrofales had flipped town, you could have just put the blame on me instead of yourself. Going after trumpetarn is very easy and harmless for you, because even if he flips town, nobody will blame you for being suspicious of an anti-town lurker.
- Your sudden vote list is a "classic" Mafia tactic to appear useful without actually being useful. It's not really a reason to lynch you, but also considering the other stuff, it all adds up.
I could be swayed to vote for either imallinson or HiroPro for today, but for the moment, I'm still keeping my vote on vonKlaust - at least until he answers sufficiently.
Dittert has apparently become more active in the thread, but I'm not yet sure what to make of his posts. I'm a bit more suspicious of yomi, in fact... He keeps making excuses for his lurking, makes lackluster accusations and acts inconsistently (thinks BroodKing is the most likely Mafia, yet votes for the easiest bandwagon target at the time: Dittert). I definitely want to hear your Mafia reads, yomi, and I want you to make a unique case against someone.
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Okay, the Brazilean consulate is the most mindnumbing, stupid bunch of paperpushing bureaucrats in the universe. RAAAAAGE. Monday I get to go again :S
So far I have FoS'd Dittert and Yomi. I am no longer as suspicious of Dittert as I find his participation during the night a bit better. I still don't understand his reads, but at least he seems to be trying to make reads and argue them. He also got Willz to post some interesting stuff, so I think there's better targets for now. That is not a freebie pass, Dittert. I agree with ArcticFox that you have to post more and explain your reads better.
My cursory reading this morning made me very suspicious of Hiro. I am taking a closer look at his filter, I think he might be just newbie town, as I do not see a scum motive behind his reasoning. He goes in the Dittert category. Here are my findings:
+ Show Spoiler [HiroPro's "case"] +On April 13 2012 01:16 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 15:57 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The person I want to lynch the most right now is: ArcticFox. Here is what I got from his filter so far: On April 12 2012 08:34 ArcticFox wrote:
Let's not waste Day 1. Too many times I've seen people say it's not important. We can find out plenty as long as everyone posts. Please be active so we don't waste our first lynch on a bored townie. The sooner everyone posts, the sooner we can get to the real scumhunting. On the surface this looks like friendly advice to fellow townies, but this is EXACTLY the kind of posting I did on A Game of Thrones Mafia as a Mafia Framer. His attitude seems like he wants to appear useful, but he doesn't really say anything useful - the opposite of actual townies who want to be useful, but don't care as much about their appearance. The overall feel I get from this post is "please don't lynch me, I'm being useful!" On April 12 2012 08:58 ArcticFox wrote:
I hope our blues this game are as clever as you were that game, KB.
Discussion is good. Idle chat is not.
As you newer people confirm, please post shortly after with your thoughts on these policies as well. First of all: why discuss about blue roles at all? This is the same mistake I did in A Game of Thrones Mafia - we kept talking about blue roles in the Mafia chat, so subconsciously I mentioned possibilities about the blue roles even in the normal thread. And what do you mean with "idle chat is not good"? So far this "idle chat" has been very useful (certainly much more useful than silence or the trolling/flaming we had in A Game of Thrones Mafia...). Also, you keep mentioning policies, which is something Mafia loves to do - you can appear somewhat useful without actually contributing anything. On April 12 2012 09:21 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 Dittert wrote:
Not RNG lynch... RNG proposed lynch. I was trying to gauge people's reactions to things. If we RNG and hit scum, surely at least 2 people will jump up to defend that person or risk losing one of their own. If no one really cares about killing that person, they're probably town. Verrrrry WIFOM reasoning. Be careful of that. It sounds logical, but discussing motive rarely leads anywhere. What if scum decides to bus? What if someone jumps up to defend because they think RNG is silly, or they have a blue read on him? This line of reasoning leads nowhere fast, and it's best to ignore it. You're tripping my scum-o-meter pretty hard right now. Got any better suggestions? There he goes again, talking about blue roles. It's too bad it probably ends now after I mention this, but I would have wanted to see how many times he can talk about blue roles / blue reads during the game, since this is the second time already in only 7 hours... And if you think Dittert is Mafia, why not vote for him or even put any real pressure on him? It looks like you just want to fake pressure an obvious target (a suspiciously acting townie) or put some distance between yourself and a fellow Mafia (if he gets lynched, you can claim you "pushed for his lynch" all along). On April 12 2012 10:28 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 10:17 HiroPro wrote:LaL seems to be a standard play. I'm all for lynching liars above all else. It sets a good tone that we won't allow scum to get away with it either. What do you mean by this? You say that lynching lying townies scares scum? I don't follow. I would prefer not to have to policy lynch at all, but liars and lurkers is a good place to start if we don't have any solid scumreads by the end of Day 1. So in short -- more people should post so we have more information to go on and can avoid a policy lynch. You look like you want to make a policy lynch, since you keep talking about policies, but still try to appear as if you "want" to lynch a Mafia player (if something too obvious comes along and you have to bus your teammate). I got a pretty solid Mafia read already in just a matter of hours, so this discussion is definitely not "useless"... ##Vote: ArcticFox I don't like this case at all. You start off by saying ArticFox's posting reminds you of your own posting as mafia in AGOT - this has no relevance at all; ArticFox isn't you - meta from another game with someone else playing is an awful reason to think someone is mafia. And policy discussion that early on with very few people online is perfectly normal. Show nested quote +
I have a hard time figuring out the 3 Mafia from this back-and-forth action, but if we manage to find even one today, it should make it easy to figure out the rest tomorrow.
Why the sudden shift in tone? A few posts ago, you were 70 or 80 percent sure that ArticFox is mafia, in this same post you say that either yomi or Dittert is mafia, and yet at the same time you have a hard time figuring out who mafia is? You sound like a mafia member getting a bandwagon rolling and then jumping off before it crashes. ##Vote: Xatalos
I agree that the ArcticFox case was bad. However, that does not make Xatalos scum. I pointed this out just before I went to bed. So far I was just unimpressed with Hiro's play. The problem came during the night, when he decided to switch his votes to vonKlaust:
+ Show Spoiler [Voteswitch] +On April 13 2012 07:11 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 07:01 Xatalos wrote:
Just my luck... Right as I post, HiroPro decides to suddenly post. Well, what do you think about my latest post, HiroPro? Am I still your only Mafia read? I like the case against vonKlaust a hell of a lot better than the one you made against ArticFox. The whole "i'm confused thing in the beginning is slightly scummy, but the bigger thing against vonKlaust for me is that he that he says that Xatalos has "several potential scumslips", is his prime suspect, but then doesn't vote for him. Someone who doesn't back up their scum reads with a vote is looking around for support too much to be town. ##Unvote: Xatalos##Vote: vonKlaust
Now I have to say that I am not a big fan of the case Xata made on vonKlaust either, but basically we have Hiro's suspicions of vonKlaust here:
1. vonKlaust applied pressure without voting. According to Hiro voting for your prime suspect is mandatory and not voting is scummy. This logic is bonkers. Voting is just a tool and so is not-voting. I have pointed this out a number of times in the thread so far. You have a different opinion? Fine, but at least take away from this that it is not a scumtell. If you want proof, I urge you to look at Xatalos' play on D1 in GoT mafia: he was perfectly happy to throw his vote all ways at once (and that was seen as a scumtell). A vote is a TOOL, not something you have to use when you are suspicious. The only thing you HAVE to do with your vote is use it once a day to decide the lynch. Everything else is optional.
2. vonKlaust thought Xatalos was town, but then switched and thought he was scum. Switching your suspicions is not a scumtell either. It is simply being open to new evidence.
We continue reading:
On April 13 2012 08:03 HiroPro wrote:
Because the reason for me suspecting him was his bad case.....
Obviously if he posts an actual good case, he doesn't appear as mafia to me.
And the case against you has merit. I would also still like to know why you never voted for Xatalos if he was your strongest mafia read.
Mafia members can't make good cases? That's bonkers. Mafia members can often make better cases than town, because they don't have to take into account that the person they are accusing might be town. They already know he's town (or in the case of bussing a buddy, scum) and can look through someone's filter with the most malevolent intentions. Townies, on the other hand, try to hunt scum without being malevolent and disregard things that, if blown up, look like giant scumslips. That's why it is important to make up your own mind, rather than just sheeping other people's opinions.
Most of the rest of his posts follow a similar reasoning. It is just plain wrongheaded and illogical. He jumps to conclusions about how mafia plays, which are almost invariably wrong. However, when reading through it all, I don't see malicious intent, just ignorance. HiroPro, I want you to give me something other than suspicions of vonKlaust. Please tell me who else you think is scum, with reasons.
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So it looks like you think HiroPro is just a bad townie, Acrofales? What about my case on imallinson then? And what exactly was bad about my case on vonKlaust? I don't understand why he tries to act all confused, yet he seems to think I'm probably Mafia, without presenting any reasoning for his suspicion.
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And the other thing I noticed during the night: willz. I really didn't like his discussion with Dittert and it made me go back to his filter. Note that up until I went to bed last night I thought he was quite townie. However, the more I read through his filter, the more convinced I am that he is not the townie willz I think he is.
Part I - The Non-Contribution
His posts on April 12 can be summarized as this: shooting down policies (fine). While I personally find this productive, there's no reason scum would not take it upon himself to do this. It's a risk-free way of sounding like a townie.
We do note that he has promised a more aggressive meta than his play in Newbie V. I took a (brief) look at his filter in that game and found him to be quite open with his opinions and posting many cases against who he thought was scum. So far I have seen nothing like this kind of play. It has been far more defensive than anything else.
The first post that I didn't like came here:
+ Show Spoiler [Willz' shooting down of BroodKin…] +On April 13 2012 06:03 willz22912 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 05:09 BroodKingEXE wrote:I'm going to vote for Dittert. So far his only attempt at an accusation is wiliz. He states that wiliz may be lurking or working. We have far more solid cases than a lurker right now. His second argument makes sense, but he is missing the point. Wiliz thinks Dittert is a bad townie, usually bad townies are Mafia. + Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote:@Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:05 willz22912 wrote:
Lynch all liars is dumb, don't dwell on that.. How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 willz22912 wrote:
If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). He also flat out claims a lie, that could've easily been a mistake (his post against yomi). He doesn't seem to want to follow the way of the town (we have come to the conclusion that we aren't going to policy lynch). Overall I think he needs to put in better input for the amount of gunslinging he is doing.
##Vote: Dittert
What is this vote? You're going to vote him because he's a bad town and that's "usually mafia" ? Dittert's case against me is mostly OMGUS, it has no basis, and I don't need any defending and you don't need any other explanation other than he made a really bad case against me? Put more effort in your reasoning, Dittert is way too easy of a target, and I stand by my opinion that he's just a newbie town that had his idea shut down really hard and is scrambling to come up with something to contribute. Post your opinion on anyone else besides Dittert for your top scum picks, don't tunnel on him.
What Willz does here is not contribute. Everybody can see that Dittert's case is bad. BroodKing is not defending Willz, he is accusing Dittert of inventing a shitty case to get out from under quite a bit of suspicion. Willz's stance here is an idea of what is to come: an extremely hostile play to shut people up and a rabid defense of Dittert.
Sidenote: sometimes a bad case is just a bad case. Sometimes it's not. Everybody can make up their own mind and voice their opinion. willz' firing up into a rage over BroodKing here set my spidersense tingling.
His only contribution with reads on people comes here:
On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote:
Top town candidate so far besides myself is probably Xatalos, although his case against ArcticFox is highly misguided. There were no serious attempts to catch any blues in a blueslip(inadvertently outing their role through something they said). The discussion on policy lynching is now since dead, and no one has tried to bring it up again. Bringing a case on him based on this + his meta thinking behind of what Mafia would do based on his experiences from GoT makes for a fairly lackluster case. As long as he doesn't tunnel himself onto a single person, I'm fine with his activity and his reasoning otherwise (I also convinced him to take a look at imallinson which he overlooked)
I'm waiting on responses from at least half the thread, I'm not going to make a case based on this little posting, that's not going to convince anyone. I will have a case written up and posted at least 4-5 hours before deadline tomorrow(~1-2pm est), so that's enough time for discussion. Specifically, I'm calling out Yomi, BroodkingExe, HiroPro, imallinson, trumpetarm to post something, at least either their top town or scum read and their own opinions. I'm tired of seeing people pick on the easiest targets with little to no explanation.
This is just really bad. He calls out the easiest targets in the thread as suspect of being scum... and then says it's bad play to call out the easiest targets with little to no explanation. He was being pressured into giving his reads and throws out the easiest names around (with the exception of Dittert, who he has taken into protective custody), with no explanation. Even I was duped into thinking this was a somewhat useful contribution, but really, it's not. It is a throwaway list by a scumster.
Interesting here:
On April 13 2012 06:40 willz22912 wrote:
EBWOB : "I personally am giving a lot of people the benefit of the doubt for being a newb or having their first game." should be the correct sentence.
Acrofales, what do you want me to say currently before they respond? I see 5 lurkers and I could pick any of them for various reasons, I'm willing to be patient and catch them slipping. If you want to question me, ask me my opinion on one of your own reads. Why should I be the only one contributing, my opinion is no more important than any of yours because this is a team-game. I can't win the game single-handedly, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to be the first person killed by Mafia, so I have to make the cases I make ironclad, and make sure of my reads before I die.
Well, if you had actually been contributing, this would be a valid point. However, so far you have seemed very reluctant to give anything away at all. 4-5 hours before the deadline is a perfect time to trump up a case on whoever is a likely town to be bandwagoned. At the moment I would much rather lynch you than one of our lurkers.
Part II - The Dittert Controversy
Part I was something I noticed upon going through his filter. Part II was what made me want to take a good look at his filter in the first post. Particularly this post:
On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote:Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote:@Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:05 willz22912 wrote:
Lynch all liars is dumb, don't dwell on that.. How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 willz22912 wrote:
If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote:
Hi I just got back from lifting.
I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic.
I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote:On April 13 2012 01:00 ArcticFox wrote:
EBWOP: Also for Yomi -- why is the vote for Dittert if you're sure Brood's scum? note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote:
Top town candidate so far besides myself is probably Xatalos, although his case against ArcticFox is highly misguided. Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: YomiFirst off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 05:09 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Townies have no need to duck responsibility, their innocence will prevent them from being lynched. Mafia on the other hand will use their newbie status to duck responsibility if they make a bad read Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions?
BroodKing already pointed out what's wrong with this. It is an extremely defensive reaction to someone who nobody is taking seriously (sorry Dittert, but you really need to step up your posting). He is trying to drive a vote on you, because he thinks you're scum. Your overreaction in defense makes me think that he may be right.
If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you.
You are playing a very insidious game. In the first paragraph you shoot down Dittert's opinion without even responding. Now you try to make it out as if you are protecting him from the evil mislynch. I am not yet sold on Dittert's innocence or scummyness, but this behaviour is scummy: either you are protecting the poor noobie townie (for no good reason other than to look good), or you're protecting your scumbuddy. Two things I can't think of a town reason for doing: we don't coddle noobs, we leave them to improve or die.
You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not?
For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on?
Now that you've pulled Dittert's teeth it's easy to ask him for his opinions: nobody will listen anyway! You also twist his words. He actually gave some decent reasons for voting Yomi and it didn't read very OMGUSy to me. I agree that his town reads made me boggle.
BroodKing points out quite a bit of this. How does Willz respond? Not to the content. No, with a big fat OMGUS:
+ Show Spoiler [ Oh My God, BroodKing, yoU Suck!!!] +On April 13 2012 10:36 willz22912 wrote:BroodKingEXE, I've taken a look through your filter (and I suggest everyone do the same) you have very little constructive posts of substance, and you wasted the beginning of D1 talking about policies. You keep harping on the importance for town to have narrowed it down to 1-2 candidates very early, why should we give Mafia the opportunity to blend in and bandwagon on a likely lynch? I also highly disagree with this line of thinking: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:47 BroodKingEXE wrote:On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote:On April 13 2012 06:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:
We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP. What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion. Mafia look at the scum lists and figure out who has the best sense of who they are. They then kill them You are trying to dissuade town from being transparent and posting their thoughts for fear of being a target by Mafia. I had this opinion too, why share your information so openly so early, but I learned from Gonzaw in Aperture Mafia that it's better to give 100% effort as town no matter if you die, in order to help the rest of the town figure out who's scum. Transparency and an active town is key to winning, you seem to be against this for fear of your own mortality, this is bad for town. So far you have managed to post numerous times about random things and calling out the lurkers, but you have yet to support any of your actions with evidence. You initially vote for Dittert and now you are willing to suddenly drop the vote based off 1 post? You are also willing to change your mind to Yomi, another candidate with multiple people voting for him and an easy lynch? What parts of his post do you specifically agree with when you say [quote= BroodKingEXE]You've put up some pretty good information up, so I'm going to take you off. So far you've been just following people's thoughts and not posting your own or your own reasoning. Be more transparent.
Sure, BroodKing's filter isn't the best out there, but he finally brings up a decent point and you respond by deflecting it. Classic scum play.
The non-contribution continues here with more muffling of Dittert's voice:
On April 13 2012 11:37 willz22912 wrote:
How am I supposed to convince him he's on the right track, let him lynch me? How are we supposed to prove the alignment of each other? I can't prove to him that I'm town, I can't prove for everyone else with 100% certainty what alignment he is.
Huh? Lets reconstruct:
1. Dittert is town and has a (rather harmless) case on willz
2. Willz goes apeshit defensive over it and tries to smother Dittert with the blanket of protection
3. Dittert keeps posting
4. Willz throws up his arms and says "what can I do?! Let him lynch me?"
This is nonsense. Firstly, there was no real danger you were going to get lynched here. You could just have gone through his case and dismantled it paragraph by paragraph. It would have been rather easy. Instead you play the dramaqueen card. WTF sir, wtf?!
The only people who know for sure are Mafia and a DT if we have one, but the DT can't use his ability until nighttime, so we can't even rely on that. What are you trying to show or prove by posting this?
Adding extra wifom. Even DT checks aren't guaranteed. There may be a framer and/or a godfather. The only people who are confirmed are dead people.
I'm trying to get Dittert to drop his suspicions on me, he continues to keep them and is progressively adding additional people into this conspiracy he alone sees. He thinks the Mafia team consists of myself, ArcticFox, and Yomi. He claims this because of his original theory against me (that no one else is willing to agree with), my actions towards defending ArcticFox from Xatalos and me calling out Yomi to post more?
Town needs to defend other town from mis-lynches if they feel it is a mistake. I don't particularly need to believe in Dittert, but I don't need him being lynched by everyone else because he was an easy lynch. Do you not agree with this? Do you not want someone to defend you if you are town? You are continuing to propose poor decisions on the part of town, adding to my suspicions of you.
Trolololol. If you wanted Dittert to drop his case you would address the case instead of trying to smother it. It's a pretty bad case, so it shouldn't have been that difficult. Now I want you to address this case, or will you try to smother me too?
Also @ BroodKingEXE, where's the response to this: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 10:42 willz22912 wrote:On April 13 2012 10:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote:Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote:@Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:05 willz22912 wrote:
Lynch all liars is dumb, don't dwell on that.. How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 willz22912 wrote:
If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote:
Hi I just got back from lifting.
I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic.
I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote:On April 13 2012 01:00 ArcticFox wrote:
EBWOP: Also for Yomi -- why is the vote for Dittert if you're sure Brood's scum? note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote:
Top town candidate so far besides myself is probably Xatalos, although his case against ArcticFox is highly misguided. Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: YomiFirst off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 05:09 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Townies have no need to duck responsibility, their innocence will prevent them from being lynched. Mafia on the other hand will use their newbie status to duck responsibility if they make a bad read Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions? If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not? For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on? This whole post reeks of scum to me. "Why are you continuing to waste discussion": well there is no such thing as wasted discussion if it is an accusation. If he thinks you are scum he has the right to that opinion. The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. "I'm not even pushing for your lynch", so the only time we are allowed to challenge you is if you are attacking us? The second paragraph is pretty bad you are flat out telling him to stop talking and that his opinion is worthless, this is very anti-town. It doesn't matter if he can't defend it others will analyze his post and make according conclusions of their own. Okay, let's waste some time then since we're both here. Do you think I'm scum, and do you agree with Dittert's suspicion of me? If so, please post why. I don't care about your opinion if you do nothing to support it, POST EVIDENCE. If you really think I'm scum, then go ahead and make a case. I'm trying to lead town to avoid lynching Dittert and he keeps posting things that will continue to get him lynched. Also what is this supposed to mean? The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. So how do you know who's mafia and who's opinion to ignore? Scumslipping perhaps? This is a team based game, we need to be working together, I want to work with him, but if he's going to continue being suspicious of me, I'm going to write him off as well as his opinions. You continue to dodge the question, do you seriously believe I am Mafia, if so, WHY. Don't keep posting comments on my posts if you're not going to do anything with them. How am I supposed to know who's really town and who's really Mafia, the answer is I don't. But I've seen mistakes like Dittert's play before, and I'm trying to convince others to ignore it, but if you've read the thread, Dittert was the #1 target for many people for his rng lynch proposal, and then for his followup case on me. I'm trying to get him to stop so he stops accruing suspicion, if I was Mafia, why wouldn't I let him continue to clog up the thread and then lynch him for being so suspicious like everyone else wanted to?
This is quite an unfair question: he stated one post of yours was scummy, you dodged his post with an OMGUS and respond that you want him to post a case when he hasn't really accused you of being mafia at all. Here, I'll do it for him.
##vote: Willz22912
I challenge everybody to read through Willz filter twice: once when you "know" he's town and once when you "know" he's mafia. I guarantee that only the mafia one makes much sense.
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yomi said he'll be making a "bigger contribution" before deadline. I'm willing to wait for that before I make a case against him, but right now, I wouldn't mind lynching him. trumpetarn has been lurking for, what, 30 hours now? At this rate he doesn't even need a Vigi shot, since he'll be modkilled... I want to see more people place their votes already, or the last hours of today might become a real mess of hasty voting. Your votes will also improve my reads on you. I also want to see Willz's big contribution he said he would release 5 hours before deadline (in my opinion, too late, but whatever...).
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On April 13 2012 18:08 Xatalos wrote:
So it looks like you think HiroPro is just a bad townie, Acrofales? What about my case on imallinson then? And what exactly was bad about my case on vonKlaust? I don't understand why he tries to act all confused, yet he seems to think I'm probably Mafia, without presenting any reasoning for his suspicion.
Verdict's still out on imallison. I will look at your case in more detail, together with his filter, later. I don't consider him a high priority at the moment. If people really want to lynch him, I'll take a better look, but for now I want people focused on Willz, and to a lesser extent Yomi.
The reason I didn't like your vonKlaust case was because the noob card can have two explanations: scum using the noob defense, or an actual noob having no clue what to do in the game. I read through vonKlaust's filter and all I really got was the feeling of someone being genuinely confused by the game. Could be that he's a great actor, but I was inclined to believe him. The "confused/newbieness" was the only real point in your case. I agree that it's not good play. I just don't see any scum agenda in there.
I also thought that he was doing a good job of pricking through bullshit (which does not make him town, but at least makes him useful). I found his defense to your and HiroPro's cases sufficient. He pointed out the scummy part of your post so far. It set my alarmbells tingling too (as I pointed out earlier), but I disagree with his case. I like that he's starting to post his reads with reasoning and is vocal in his defense. I am opposed to a vonKlaust lynch.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 13 2012 15:40 Xatalos wrote:imallinson, I noticed a couple of suspicious things about your filter. First of all, this: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 04:18 imallinson wrote:
I never thought you were mafia and wasn't trying to label you as such. I was just pointing out that what you had said about me wasn't quite accurate. Also this was before you had posted your suspicions on Arctic. You posting those suspicions definitely reinforced you as being probably town in my head. This post is an almost complete lie. If you look at my filter, I made my case against ArcticFox FIRST and only noticed your (suspicious) post after that. So your reasoning for first saying I'm Mafia and then backing off is extremely questionable, based on this post at least. And you say you never suspected me to begin with? Then what was this post all about: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 16:54 imallinson wrote:
@ Xatalos
I didn't mention blue reads at all. I said lurker lynches can get a blue who is trying to hide in the shadows. I never mentioned anyone I thought was blue or how we would figure a blue out. You seem to be looking so hard for slip ups you are making some yourself. What is that if not accusing me of a Mafia slip? You never said directly I was Mafia, but looking at this sentence, I can see no reason to post it unless you thought I was Mafia. So why did you say later on that you never thought I was suspicious at all?
it's not accusing you of a mafia slip at all at the time you were throwing accusations around like crazy, this was about 12 -14 hours in mind you, I was merely suggesting you maybe should calm down and think more logically that saying 4 or 5 people seem scummy with no evidence to back it up. town can make slip ups as well.
On April 13 2012 15:40 Xatalos wrote:
Other potentially suspicious bits from your filter:
- Your first post is very vague and hesitant, typical for a Mafia first post.
- Your two Mafia reads so far have been ArcticFox (easy to jump on after me) and trumpetarn (a hardcore lurker who wouldn't defend himself). If Acrofales had flipped town, you could have just put the blame on me instead of yourself. Going after trumpetarn is very easy and harmless for you, because even if he flips town, nobody will blame you for being suspicious of an anti-town lurker.
- Your sudden vote list is a "classic" Mafia tactic to appear useful without actually being useful. It's not really a reason to lynch you, but also considering the other stuff, it all adds up.
- Over half the people here had hesitant first posts.
- I picked trumpetarm at random out of the people who were lurking to make a case either way on because Willz suggested I make a case on someone who wasn't in the spotlight to put my own opinions out there. I'm not sure what Acrofales getting lynched has to do with anything no one has really suggested he might be scum. And ArcticFox was me agreeing with your case. If people agreeing with you makes them scummy I don't know what to say.
- The vote list was because Willz had just asked if we could have a separate vote thread because it was hard to figure out where the votes were. I don't see how that is in anyway scummy.
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Okay, I just got up and caught up with the thread, and that huge post by Acrofales did change my priorities here somewhat:
Before, my biggest scum reads went something like this: Dittert, yomi, HiroPro, maybe BroodKing (?)
I had my vote on yomi to get him to contribute something useful, which isn't going to happen until shortly before the deadline so it's useless on him for that purpose and better off on one of my bigger scum reads.
Now Acrofales has posted his suspicion on willz, I see some extremely good points in that post and did as he said (read through willz's filter (1) "knowing" he was mafia and (2) "knowing" he was town) and the mafia explanation really does make a lot more sense.
Now my scum reads go as follows: willz, probably Dittert, and likely one of yomi and HiroPro the lurkers.
With this in mind, and the fact that willz really needs to explain himself, I will change my vote to him for he is my biggest scum read right now.
##Unvote
##Vote: willz22912
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imallinson, I like your answer. Your calm counter-arguments make sense from a townie perspective. However, you should at least post some more. You have been pretty silent and Mafia are usually in the category between lurkers and active posters, where you fit perfectly at the moment. Post more and your townieness will become more clear. (btw there was a typo in my case, I meant ArcticFox, not Acrofales)
Acrofales, your case against Willz seems good on the surface, but I'm not sure about him. I'd want to at least see his upcoming "big contribution" before voting. However, I will look through his filter once I get home and see if I agree with you.
More than Willz I would want to lynch Yomi right now. But he also claimed he wants to contribute closer to the deadline... Hmm, I don't like this delaying of contribution Willz and Yomi are doing. I'll reconsider my vote a bit later when I can read the filters in peace.
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On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote:
Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions?
If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you.
You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not?
For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on?
I think this part is interesting. Earlier in the thread he wrote
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 03:34 willz22912 wrote:
If you want to be more active and useful for town yourself, take a moment and just pick a player (preferably someone not already under suspicion) and post your opinion on that person (including me if you want) whether he is looking pro-town, neutral, or anti-town. Don't lurk for fear of nothing to say. Try and contribute, and getting posts down where people can judge your reasoning and have a mental history of your opinions will be the reason you stay alive versus being targetted for lurking. This is targeted towards the players with less than a page of filter at this point. It's still midway through D1, but you need to step it up.
Not only have Willz not done this himself, but Dittert is pretty much doing what Willz is asking here. He looks into Willz filter and determines he thinks Willz look wierd. Instead of propperly judging his reasoning like Willz said would be the thing we should do he appeals to Dittert's loyalty by writing:
I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you.
and
I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish?
Willz says he have done alot of contributing, but he really has not.
Earlier he responded to my explanation to BroodKing by writing:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 05:31 willz22912 wrote:
Feedback on other people's ideas is not enough. You just recently made a post about Xatalos' case against Arcticfox when numerous people have already commented on it. Post your top scum read or top town read and have a unique opinion.
But when asked to contribute and share his own opinions we get:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 03:23 willz22912 wrote:
I'm leaning strongly towards imallinson at this point because he hasn't posted anything unique for himself, he's been hiding behind supporting your case against Arcticfox. Other reads I have now I am not willing to divulge at this point so they don't get defensive early, I'm curious to see how some of my suspects proceed as we still have 29 hours to go till deadline. I'll post a case on my vote target after I collect more evidence.
On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote:
I'm waiting on responses from at least half the thread, I'm not going to make a case based on this little posting, that's not going to convince anyone. I will have a case written up and posted at least 4-5 hours before deadline tomorrow(~1-2pm est), so that's enough time for discussion. Specifically, I'm calling out Yomi, BroodkingExe, HiroPro, imallinson, trumpetarm to post something, at least either their top town or scum read and their own opinions. I'm tired of seeing people pick on the easiest targets with little to no explanation.
A very thin accusation of imallinson, and a promise to contribute later.
I am very curious why you would even be suspicious of anyone in the first place when you're at the same time saying that your case wouldn't convince anyone and that you need more evidence. I didn't think of this earlier, but this doesn't make much sense to me. He has actually done what he accused me of. He has mostly been giving feedback to other peoples posts. When he haven't done that he have been writing general posts about how we should behave as town.
I get the feeling that Willz is playing with an agenda. He hasn't contributed all that much, but he claims he has, and he quickly established some kind of leader role for town.
I have a feeling that this:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 02:58 willz22912 wrote:
Newbie town are scared to voice their opinion so they latch onto a strong leader, but then if that leader is really mafia, then we have a bad situation for town.
is what's happening.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@ Xatalos
I feel like I've been posting a decent amount, I'm certainly not the most prolific of posters, but I've stopped posting as much about other people's analysis because I was criticised for it earlier. I'm kind of waiting for a response from trumpetarm beyond "I'm not here that much so I can't post a lot." I still haven't actually seen a proper defence from him yet. I'd also like to get a read on Hiro but he still hasn't posted anything of worth besides the weakest of cases against you then following you in jumping on vonKlaus.
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For now I put my vote on Willz.
##Vote: willz22912
We'll see if he gets the promised killer case going.
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My other FoS right now is Hiro, since he seems to have disapeared once again since our battle last night.
His contributing has been absolutely minimal.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@ Kharad
Seeing as you unvoted yomi do you still think he could be scum? Also why do you think Willz is more scummy?
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EBWOP: I'm just not understanding the jump entirely because yomi never really defended himself.
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Yes I think he could be scum. It's just that with how few posts he has made thus far there is not really as much evidence as with willz's lengthy filter that currently exists and has been thoroughly analysed. I'm keeping an eye out for yomi though.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
OK, that makes sense. Yomi seems to fit into the same category as Hiro and trumpetarm. They are all a bit on the suspicious side but haven't posted enough to get good evidence on.
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Good morning all. Just had a quick read of the thread.
Yomi's looking even more scummy to me after that post last night. I'm even more confident in my vote with yet another post from him that says nothing. I'm still waiting for that big analysis and vote post after all the pressure he put on me yesterday to do the same.
I'm glad more people are catching on to the willz filter. There's a lot of aggression and calling out of the bad logic of other people, without actually giving the town any information of his own. That's what I was getting across with my comment last night. I'm still more confident in my yomi vote than a willz vote as of right now, but both reading very heavily red, and I'm just as interested in reading willz long and informative vote post today (which should be coming in 4-5 hours)
I'm still waiting on Brood and Dittert to come on and provide useful things. Specifically Dittert. I went to bed last night after calling out his utterly useless Princess Bride post when I put out an easy list of things for him to discuss -- I figured I'd wake up to at least a post of ideas, whether they were bad or not. Instead, he's disappeared. I'm hard pressed to still call him harmless at this point, but we have better targets at this moment.
Trumpet and Hiro -- Step in and contribute. Hiro's posts are full of logical fallacies and parroting, with his filter only seems large because of an argument with Brood. Trumpet doesn't even have a filter to consider. Both of you -- who's your best scum read, and explain why?
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EPT
