EPTNewbie Mini Mafia VIII - Page 16
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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Dittert
United States97 Posts
As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote: Hi I just got back from lifting. I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic. I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote: note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote: Top town candidate so far besides myself is probably Xatalos, although his case against ArcticFox is highly misguided. Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: On April 13 2012 05:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Townies have no need to duck responsibility, their innocence will prevent them from being lynched. Mafia on the other hand will use their newbie status to duck responsibility if they make a bad read Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! | ||
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trumpetarn
Sweden32 Posts
Over to the real part of this. Acrofales said @Trumpetarn: if you had a gun and had to shoot someone right now. Who would it be and why? Who would I shoot? I think I’d go for Dittert, he hasn’t contributed a lot in the discussion and his statements is pretty thin. Actually I think that the only thing he really said during this is his pretty small accusation of willz22912 whom I feel is pretty townie for the moment at least. Though If he shows up and start to contribute more I might just change my mind but this is who I would go for now having not too much reads on other players. @imallinson I hope that by me trying to me more active you will drop your suspicion reading the top of this post is some of an explanation but not enough I belive my best defense probably is to just post more and more of my own thoughts | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions? If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not? For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Glad to see you post Dittert. Innocence will save you, a townie will act like a townie and mafia like a mafia. No matter how hard they try the Mafia will always make mistakes, and as long as you are actively speaking we will be able to see the difference. You've put some pretty good information up, so I'm going to take you off. I don't like your comment about an agenda though, as my only agenda should be helping the town. Me asking questions is my way of scumhunting, so I will continue to call out people on what I see. ##Unvote | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions? If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not? For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on? This whole post reeks of scum to me. "Why are you continuing to waste discussion": well there is no such thing as wasted discussion if it is an accusation. If he thinks you are scum he has the right to that opinion. The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. "I'm not even pushing for your lynch", so the only time we are allowed to challenge you is if you are attacking us? The second paragraph is pretty bad you are flat out telling him to stop talking and that his opinion is worthless, this is very anti-town. It doesn't matter if he can't defend it others will analyze his post and make according conclusions of their own. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:47 BroodKingEXE wrote: Mafia look at the scum lists and figure out who has the best sense of who they are. They then kill them You are trying to dissuade town from being transparent and posting their thoughts for fear of being a target by Mafia. I had this opinion too, why share your information so openly so early, but I learned from Gonzaw in Aperture Mafia that it's better to give 100% effort as town no matter if you die, in order to help the rest of the town figure out who's scum. Transparency and an active town is key to winning, you seem to be against this for fear of your own mortality, this is bad for town. So far you have managed to post numerous times about random things and calling out the lurkers, but you have yet to support any of your actions with evidence. You initially vote for Dittert and now you are willing to suddenly drop the vote based off 1 post? You are also willing to change your mind to Yomi, another candidate with multiple people voting for him and an easy lynch? What parts of his post do you specifically agree with when you say [quote= BroodKingEXE]You've put up some pretty good information up, so I'm going to take you off.[/quote] So far you've been just following people's thoughts and not posting your own or your own reasoning. Be more transparent. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 10:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: This whole post reeks of scum to me. "Why are you continuing to waste discussion": well there is no such thing as wasted discussion if it is an accusation. If he thinks you are scum he has the right to that opinion. The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. "I'm not even pushing for your lynch", so the only time we are allowed to challenge you is if you are attacking us? The second paragraph is pretty bad you are flat out telling him to stop talking and that his opinion is worthless, this is very anti-town. It doesn't matter if he can't defend it others will analyze his post and make according conclusions of their own. Okay, let's waste some time then since we're both here. Do you think I'm scum, and do you agree with Dittert's suspicion of me? If so, please post why. I don't care about your opinion if you do nothing to support it, POST EVIDENCE. If you really think I'm scum, then go ahead and make a case. I'm trying to lead town to avoid lynching Dittert and he keeps posting things that will continue to get him lynched. Also what is this supposed to mean? The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. So how do you know who's mafia and who's opinion to ignore? Scumslipping perhaps?This is a team based game, we need to be working together, I want to work with him, but if he's going to continue being suspicious of me, I'm going to write him off as well as his opinions. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Currently, yomi is my primary suspect, throwing alarm bells all over the place. His posts have been overly defensive when questioned, while not actually answering anything. On April 12 2012 12:31 yomi wrote: nothing to contribute? I am one of the only people to post something substantive, specific, and concrete. I have looked over what's been said and formed ideas. For example I think you are mafia. On April 13 2012 00:48 yomi wrote: just to clarify since apparently my posts are incomprehensible, when I say "don't like brood" I mean I think he may be mafia. Primarily I look at this, and pair it with this: On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote: note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? A bizarre, knee-jerk OMGUS response to a simple question. Also, still no mention of Brood. He then later answered it as such: On April 13 2012 01:42 yomi wrote: which? why vote for dittert? for the third time: I am voting for Dittert because he proposed a policy which I thought was bizarre and ill advised. More than that, I thought that proposing any policy at all was suspicious. Am I really not writing clearly because I feel like I have made one post in this thread and then explained it 5 times. More confrontation, still no information about why he mentioned Brood was on his scum radar (at least twice, three times if you include his first post in the game that he continues to say is "concrete" -- + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote: Hi I just got back from lifting. I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic. I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. Overall, I've felt his play so far is nonsensical, confusing, and confrontational, which is something I would expect from mafia rather than town. ##Vote: yomi That's where I'm comfortable right now. I'm interested to see his response when he gets home from class though. I also want to see more from imallinson. His play is very suspicious to me, between flip-flopping on his stance on Xalatos' case against me multiple times, his long post on Trumpetarn that doesn't actually say anything concrete, then a few hours later changing up his vote ("I think in the interest of actually getting a response seeing as none has been given yet I will change my vote to trumpet."), a general lack of firmness in his posts, then posting the vote count (again, in an attempt to seem useful while not actually posting anything), he seems like a very likely candidate as well. Do you have any other reads in addition to Trumpetarn? Dittert's logic is also making no sense to me. Every step of the way has seemed like either scum or a completely new town, but you can only ride the "I'm new" train for so long. His top 3 town choices are completely out of nowhere, and while he also voted for Yomi, the logic of how he got there boggles my mind. I could still see him being new town, but the longer this goes, the scummier it looks. vonKlaust, I still want to hear more from you as well. Your posting has been very defensive, without actually scumhunting. The only thing I saw was an OMGUS vote on HiroPro, and a lot of parroting. What are your reads now? | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
What parts of his post do you specifically agree with when you say You've put up some pretty good information up, so I'm going to take you off. So far you've been just following people's thoughts and not posting your own or your own reasoning. Be more transparent.[/QUOTE] | ||
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Dittert
United States97 Posts
On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? Well, as I said before, I'm trying to drive a vote on you because I think you are mafia. I'm trying to accomplish a victory for the town via your lynching. You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions? I named AFox as well. It seems likely to me that if you 3 are the mafia, everyone else is probably town. If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. Because my case makes sense. It provides a consistent story that explains the seemingly random actions of 3 people. Whether or not I'm sitting at my computer at 7pm EDT tomorrow shouldn't really affect whether or not you believe in my case. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. I'm sorry that you think the fact I won't quit my job to play TL mafia is unacceptable. I am still not quitting my job. You are playing really poorly for town, Finally, something we agree upon! I admit to playing really poorly for town. I shouldn't be saying everything I think. I shouldn't be revealing the entirety of my case and suspicions. Seeing as I'm already in the spotlight from my newbie RNG mistake, however, I don't really see the harm in just playing straight up from here on out. If I'm right, then maybe we can wrap this up quickly. I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. Why are you the one who gets to give me chances to defend myself? Other than the fact that you've convinced everyone else that you're "obviously town." You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? At the moment, only Yomi is trying to lynch me. I have an opinion on him. And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. Well, I explained myself pretty well, I think. Yomi has accused all kinds of people (KB, Brood, myself, to name 3) without making any substantive cases of any kind. Yelling loudly does not necessarily make you innocent. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not? We've been over this before. Yomi claimed to have attacked me first, but really you did. That's a factual inaccuracy. I read in the mafia guides that a key mafia tell is trying to rehash old things over and over again. Seems scummy to me that you would bring it up again after 1) we've already discussed it; and 2) you could easily look it up in my tiny filter. I don't have many posts, so it wouldn't take that long. I don't know if that should have any bearing on yomi being scum or not. It's not really the crux of my case. For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? No, because he actively sought out the alignment of HiroPro, something mafia wouldn't need to do. Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on? Well, I admitted that part was a little weak. I can change my read if you want, since I now think someone else is definitely town, but I won't say who or why for fear of endangering his life. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
1. I'm not asking you to quit your job, I understand RL concerns will always take importance over a forum game. I am only suspicious in your eyes, you even say yourself that you probably won't get the vote through on me, because I'm "Ralph Nader" ;p 2. You've successfully solved the puzzle in 1 day? My god it was ArcticFox, Yomi, and willz22912 the whole time?! Really, based on what? 3.You have already stated you agree you are playing poorly as town, why should fellow town give your case any credibility? Why should we believe you over me? I have defended you because I think you have been misguided, and I believe that you are really town, do you really think that everyone who voted you initially had no cause and that they were all wrong for thinking your actions suspicious? 4. Okay, so I attacked you first over your RNG lynch proposal. That is indeed a lie by him, is that enough to justify lynching him in your eyes? 5. KB is at the top of your list because he actively sought out the alignment of HiroPro by making a really terrible pressure-vote that was pretty much ignored by everyone and he himself stated it didn't do anything? 6. If you want to keep your town read to yourself fine, but doing so for fear of endangering his life is a really poor reason and anti-town. Town is supposed to be transparent, if you hide your opinion of this person now, why should the town believe you when you claim he was your top town read the whole time? This part goes out to everyone. Continue to be transparent with your scum reads, and ignore your mortality. Hiding things for fear of your death D1? It takes until Night1 for Mafia to kill someone, and it will still be only 1 person at a time. I'm already pretty sure I'm getting taken out first because I'm the most active, so I'm not hesitating in posting what I need to. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: Okay, time to post. As for lurking, I was at work, where they expect me to... do work and not play TL mafia. I'll be at work tomorrow too. And Saturday! Just FYI, I will actually miss the voting cut-offs due to work, so don't expect any last-minute shenanigans from me. As for my thoughts, I'm still on the willz22912 kick. He has my ##FoS. Here's what I think went down: He saw my bad play and jumped on it, trying for a mislynch. I have explained already here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). After that, yomi enters the discussion: It struck me that he appeared to be jumping on the willz and AFox bandwagon. At this point, I was already suspicious of those two, so yomi siding with them made me suspicious of him as well. Surely though, he couldn't be so dumb as to list out the mafia team right there, could he? Realizing I had no way of figuring that out (maybe it's so dumb is clever, etc.), I let it be. The next post that caught my attention was this one: I think this was a ploy to distance yomi from AF and to increase the distance between AF and myself. Seeing as how at the time there was an "AF might be mafia" sentiment floating through the thread, this was a good way to link me to scum. Note how even though he lists the 1/2/3 mafia as AF/me/hiropro, he doesn't vote for #1, he votes for me. As for willz, I found this post intriguing: Why would you refer to yourself as the top town candidate unless you wanted to reinforce this belief in people's minds? No one is even remotely accusing you of being scum except for crazy ol' Dittert with his RNG ideas. This seems scummy to me. After all that, I'm ready to cast my vote. ##Vote: Yomi First off, this is not even a little bit an OMGUS vote, even though yomi did vote for me. I'm voting for Yomi over willz for several reasons. 1. I don't think anybody else will vote for willz, so essentially a vote for him is like a vote for Ralph Nader. It may be a good idea, but it's a wasted vote. 2. Everyone else seems to think he's town, as far as I can tell. With this being my first game, I admit that my reads may be off. As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. Yomi, on the other hand, has not really posted anything of value. His filter is more or less a repeated cry of "yes, I'm posting valid things! I shouldn't have to explain myself!" His vote is currently for me, which due to my lack of posting, is about the "safest" vote you can make. As for my accusation that Yomi was lying, he did in fact make a statement that can be proved factually false. He had the tools at his disposal to check the facts before he posted. I don't know what else you want to consider "a lie." What you do with that information is up to you. I'm not advocating we policy lynch Yomi because of this "factually incorrect statement." I'm advocating we lynch him because his behavior is consistent with my understanding of scummy behavior. Acrofales asked for my top 3 town reads, so I'll include those as well. 1. KB - His first vote on HiroPro was clearly to try and get a read on HiroPro's alignment. Mafia don't need to get reads on people's alignment, they already have them. He also did not jump on the "Dittert must be scum for his RNG idea" bandwagon. If he was scum, this would have been an ideal opportunity to try and frame an innocent. 2. Brood - He's reasonably active, but it's more like a scattershot than a laser. He's asking questions of everyone with seemingly no real agenda. Even though I think Brood is town, I also think he says some really stupid shit. For example: Really? Your innocence will save you? Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch trials. 3. imallinson - He seems normal? I don't really have a strong inclination for anyone in this third town spot. He asks for KB's read on Hiro, which seems helpful to the town. Okay, discuss! I agree with his stuff about Yomi bandwagoning. Yomi started off with a very powerful statement accusing 3 people and telling town reads on another 2 people. He then proceeds to provide no information on why he made those decisions. His only response is that he didn't like how the policy discussion was started. Its not really a valid statement, because he said three people were leading the discussion (dittert, KB , and me), so he would have to had some reasoning as to why he chose dittert (he obviously comment much more on my posts). His distancing theory is a little far fetched (I mean really how could the Mafia do something that obvious). His comment on how Yomi picked the him out of the line-up was correct in my eyes. Yomi could've easily listed those names ala carte, but choses to rank them and not follow the rank. I also think his observation on your "I'm a townie declaration" puts you further up on my list of possible scum. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
The only people who know for sure are Mafia and a DT if we have one, but the DT can't use his ability until nighttime, so we can't even rely on that. What are you trying to show or prove by posting this? I'm trying to get Dittert to drop his suspicions on me, he continues to keep them and is progressively adding additional people into this conspiracy he alone sees. He thinks the Mafia team consists of myself, ArcticFox, and Yomi. He claims this because of his original theory against me (that no one else is willing to agree with), my actions towards defending ArcticFox from Xatalos and me calling out Yomi to post more? Town needs to defend other town from mis-lynches if they feel it is a mistake. I don't particularly need to believe in Dittert, but I don't need him being lynched by everyone else because he was an easy lynch. Do you not agree with this? Do you not want someone to defend you if you are town? You are continuing to propose poor decisions on the part of town, adding to my suspicions of you. Also @ BroodKingEXE, where's the response to this: On April 13 2012 10:42 willz22912 wrote: Okay, let's waste some time then since we're both here. Do you think I'm scum, and do you agree with Dittert's suspicion of me? If so, please post why. I don't care about your opinion if you do nothing to support it, POST EVIDENCE. If you really think I'm scum, then go ahead and make a case. I'm trying to lead town to avoid lynching Dittert and he keeps posting things that will continue to get him lynched. Also what is this supposed to mean? So how do you know who's mafia and who's opinion to ignore? Scumslipping perhaps? This is a team based game, we need to be working together, I want to work with him, but if he's going to continue being suspicious of me, I'm going to write him off as well as his opinions. You continue to dodge the question, do you seriously believe I am Mafia, if so, WHY. Don't keep posting comments on my posts if you're not going to do anything with them. How am I supposed to know who's really town and who's really Mafia, the answer is I don't. But I've seen mistakes like Dittert's play before, and I'm trying to convince others to ignore it, but if you've read the thread, Dittert was the #1 target for many people for his rng lynch proposal, and then for his followup case on me. I'm trying to get him to stop so he stops accruing suspicion, if I was Mafia, why wouldn't I let him continue to clog up the thread and then lynch him for being so suspicious like everyone else wanted to? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
I remind you that you called me out on one post but did nothing of substance with that accusation. Now you've posted 3 more posts on this page adding to your filter without anything useful being added as well. I leave that for everyone else to ponder. Good night. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Brood -- I want two things from you. First, I want your best scum reads -- 2 or 3 will be sufficient. Second, I want you to answer for the inconsistency between: On April 13 2012 10:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: This whole post reeks of scum to me. "Why are you continuing to waste discussion": well there is no such thing as wasted discussion if it is an accusation. If he thinks you are scum he has the right to that opinion. The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. "I'm not even pushing for your lynch", so the only time we are allowed to challenge you is if you are attacking us? The second paragraph is pretty bad you are flat out telling him to stop talking and that his opinion is worthless, this is very anti-town. It doesn't matter if he can't defend it others will analyze his post and make according conclusions of their own. And: On April 13 2012 11:59 BroodKingEXE wrote: @willz at the moment I dont see anything particularly damning about your other posts, but why waste time engaging dittert? If you really think he is a newbie, then he is really no threat to you. We as a town haven't come to a consensus to vote for you. I think that yomi's baseless accusations are still more damning. Your second comment here is confusing. It both says that willz isn't reading scummy and that he's wasting time engaging, while your first comment says that he's reading scummy and there's no such thing as wasted discussion. I want you to elaborate on your thoughts here, as I don't want there to be any miscommunication. Things got heated, and I want town to calm down a little bit and use reason and logic rather than flaring up and arguing. --------- As for willz, you're very obviously coming off as town to a lot of people (myself included), but looking back through your filter raises some red flags. You keep asking for people's scumreads while not posting any accusations yourself, except to point out inconsistencies in more or less everyone who isn't just lurking. You're calling for transparency while keeping your reads to yourself -- which is probably why Brood and Dittert are reading you as sounding scummy. When you post your case and your vote tomorrow, I would also like your other best reads, as you have asked of most of the rest of town. Your reasoning has been to "make sure mafia don't get defensive", which sounds reasonable, but you then call out other people: On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote: What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion. I agree with your logic here, but the only read you've given out is imallinson, who frankly is just as easy of a pick as Dittert at this point for their usefulness, and was still quite lurky when you threw out the idea. I'm very interested in seeing who else you have in mind. ----------- Dittert, you're not getting off scot free either, as they're primarily arguing over the posts you've made. You've claimed myself, willz, and Yomi as your top scum suspects. What is your reasoning? Provide some facts to back it up. Your summary is that Yomi is throwing around baseless accusations and that's your reason for voting for him (catch 22, as you're doing much the same thing), your case on willz is that announcing yourself as town is obviously something mafia would do (please, please, PLEASE go look up what WIFOM means,) and I'll quote you for your case against me: On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. The conclusions that have been drawn is that the case against me was so full of holes it more resembles swiss cheese than a case. Is there more to it than that? If there is, present the facts so we can argue them. Acro was also right about your town reads -- they are morbidly interesting. I want to delve deeper -- what is the reasoning behind your town picks? KB seems to be contributing this evening, but Brood's posts are very fluffy so far so it's hard to get a read either way (you even said the things he said sometimes sound, and I quote, "stupid"), and iamallinson is a terrible choice -- please read his filter and say that he's your 3rd best town read right now. Are these still your top town reads? Why or why not? ------------- In summary, discussion is great, but let's get it more focused. Arguing without any real aim except to rile each other up serves no real purpose except to confuse the town. Let's get some real answers out here so we can make some real decisions. | ||
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Dittert
United States97 Posts
... ... ... inconceivable. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 13 2012 13:53 Dittert wrote: ArcticFox, do you really think I don't know what WIFOM means? That just seems... ... ... ... inconceivable. Cute. Also, irrelevant and distracting. You need content far too much to be wasting time with this. That's the kind of comment that makes people think you aren't taking the game seriously and gets you lynched. If you understand the concept of WIFOM, you'll understand why so many of your comments have reeked of it. If you're actually town, the time for playing the noob card and making jokes is over. Make a solid case with some good logic and post it. Make yourself useful. You can start by answering my post above if you need a starting point, and go from there. | ||
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