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On April 11 2012 23:35 ghost_403 wrote:I take it back. Most of the problems I had with what VE said stem from discussions that arise from the case the Toads brought up. Right now, I find Toads a lot scummier than I find VE. Gonzaw's defense of Toads strikes me as fishy, but there's no way I'm going to discuss a Gonzaw lynch right now. His Phase 1 portion of his eye cancer causing wall of text poast makes me mad. There's no reason for it at all. It doesn't prove his innocence, and it wasn't in response to something that someone else brought up. So why address it at all? I don't see a good reason for it. Reading it was a waste of my time. Aaaand the next guy talking about wifom? What do you suspect we do instead? Everyone keeps saying after lynches and nightkills "reread the thread and try and figure out what's going on". That's what I am doing. I know I am not 100% confirmed but what I said to me is the most logical conclusion. Again, why should I ask people to protect Jackal d1 when VE actively tried to discredit him making sure noone is going to protect him so he can singlehit.
Yes that's an educated guess but I am pretty sure we don't have mafia tripplestacking ST and 4 townies shooting each other and frankly that's what VE says I am not considering. Sure it's possible but how in the world would someone think about such a scenario?
Because he needs to think of such a stupid scenario for a vote on me to make sense at all.
At that time in the game I had a couple of votes. I wake up, see a horrible end for a night, think that at least I'll have some peace now and concentrate more on actually winning than on defending from the worst cases I ever saw. Noone is going to want and lynch me because of how clearly this should make sure that I am actually a townie and next thing I see there's a couple of votes on me and people bandwagoneing me without a reason while I am still basicly confirmed imo. That's why I had to spell out why it's wrong and how a Toad-Vote MAKES NO SENSE from a townie perspective. What kind of townie would assume such a weird scenario as the most plausible thing?
Also I am pretty sure VE knows I am looking incredible good right now taking what happend over night into consideration. There's no point denieing that. Of course I am not 100% confirmed, there's no 100% confirmed but HOW IN THE WORLD is lynching Toad after d1 lynch and n1 hits?
I am trying to understand what happened and again. I am pretty certain I have a good idea what happened and that backs me up. Yet VE and gonzaw get in this thread telling people that I am the lynch for today, saying "we cant possible try and read something out of lynches or nightkills, because that's wifom".
No it's not. This game is about figureing out what makes sense, what is likely to be the case. You need 20 different assumptions to make sure your case works? Well that might be right but why are you considering something like that when something with only 1 very reasonable assumption makes perfect sense as well?
Combine that, a couple of the other things he said, and the fact that I thought he was scum way back on Day 1, and you arrive at ##vote toads
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My Thoughts on VE vs Toad
Toad:
+ Show Spoiler +During all of day 1, I didn't really think this guy was that scummy at all. Just recently, with his "big" cases did I notice his scumminess sneaking through. 1. Desperate to confirm towniness: On April 11 2012 15:19 Toadesstern wrote:
Phase 2 - Votes on Day 1
More onto why I am "confirmed"
Look into the people who voted d1 and how they voted. We killed a townie with Janaan. I am pretty sure there's plenty of mafia on him as we had A LOT of troubles getting a lynch at all.
Town was probably derping hardcore d1. I guess VE read that I think Hassy is mafia but did not comment on it because he did not think it was a threat because everyone ignored it. Once WBG got in the thread and placed his vote and I did the same he suddenly says he thinks Hassy is Mafia out of nowhere and places his vote there.
There's 2 options here:
EITHER Hassy is simply mafia and VE did not think it was a threat at all considering we only had like 4 hours left and need 16 people on Hassy and therefore wanted something to later point back and say "lookielookie, I tried killing hassy d1" only to switch later to janaan.
The other option is Hassy being a townie, although I doubt that's possible. In that case VE just did whatever he wanted to because both targets are town.
This whole quote is complete bullshit. Its all WIFOM, and doesn't confirm town at all. It would be good for tricking people not thinking that you are town. Why do you doubt Hassy being a townie is possible? Wtf. Explain please. Your whole confirmed townie relys on this, and its not even a fact. Also at many other points during the game you said how confirming town was important, when really, if you scum-hunt and put in effort people will think your town. Making yourself look town shouldn't be your concern espeically on day 1. 2. The case on VE felt really really forced. There were some decent points that I noted as well, his behaviour day 1 was really odd. But then just to make it bigger, you added in a shit load of meta and WIFOM. That should be added as an addition to the case, but it seemed like this was the big focus of your case, and was 50% of it rather than an addition. Sorry Im not lynching basing purely on WIFOM and meta. 3. Attempt to tunnel the town in day 2. Self Explanatory. YOU DIE TOMMORROW thing with Gonzaw. It was purely OMGUS, and sorry but your 1 vote doesn't decide the towns action toad. He is basing it off day 1 opinions not even waiting for information we get from the night kills and further discussion. Also the comment saying we lynch hassy then VE and we win. Wat
VE:
+ Show Spoiler +Initially through day 1, with all the vote switching and generally awkward playstyle I felt like you were scummy for sure.
But as of today your case against Toad so far has been way better than his case against you, your defense on his case also seemed legit. Your case is based more on his actions this game and not WIFOM and meta. Also why would you try adn push a Hassy case if Janaan was town.
WIFOM, I think that mafia killed Midnight so that people would go for you, also I think Zealos is scummy, and he is actively defending Toad without any reason. More on that later though.
Side Cases
Zealos
+ Show Spoiler +This case is all about, inconsistencies, lurkiness, lack of opinion, and avoiding. I already pointed out Zealos random loyality to WBG, without explanation. Then after im done, he gives up and avoids it all together. Fuck it right the spotlights not on him. On April 10 2012 22:19 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:00 Zealos wrote:
I think he is posting actively and making an effort, which is more than can be said for a lot of players that just seem to be either lurking or inactive.
Whether or not WBG is a fantastic town or not, I would still argue he is a town player. Well seeing how 6 of your last 7 posts are about WBG im interested in why you so actively defending him or promoting his "awesome" play this game. It's not like he was a huge target and you thought he really was town. Its either a noob sheeping behind a player he has respect for , or a scum buddy protecting another scum buddy. Honestly, its like your OMGUS for him, Hassy says something about him negatively and you automatically assume hes scum? + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2012 20:17 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 12:58 Risen wrote:On April 10 2012 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Faithless cowards! Hassybaby!
I'm DEAD tonight. Please refer to ANY game I've been in for the last 2 months. My D1 reads are reaching Legendary status. I'm going to again request medic protection. AGAIN. PLEASE protect me tonight.
WBG makes a good target too...but PLEASE PROTECT ME TONIGHT! Quit directing blues, scum. I'm apparently the only one who thinks as much but as soon as people like sputnik, michaelthe, and johnnywup are gone you're going to be looked at hard by everyone else. It's funny you of all people should talk of how to act as a blue role ^^ On topic though, I still want Johnny dead, he's useless, and I'll show you why in the day. I would also say Hassy is also very scummy. Going at WBG, are you kidding? He's one of the few useful posters right now, and probably one of the strongest town players in the game. On April 10 2012 20:24 Zealos wrote:
Well, I'm not a veteran of these forums, but it seems like WBG is giving a lot of pro town reads and promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. He may well be a good scum player, but that isn't relevant. On April 10 2012 20:40 Zealos wrote:
It would mean at worst, that he is just a bad town, however, the way in which he is honest about his reads means he isn't trying to hide his agenda, which is townie play imo, and even if comparatively he isn't good town, I would still bet he's a lot better than some of the newer players here. Read: Me
It also means I didn't read the thread thoroughly enough today ^^ On April 10 2012 20:52 Zealos wrote:
I'm pretty sure you were the first to bring up his past play? (being good at mafia and not town)
I originally stated that I thought his town play was good, and was promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. I am failing to see what exactly you are scared of from WBG, are you scum? and afraid of him catching you out? Maybe you just want to make the whole thread get derailed again? I feel this is the last we should talk of his past play, and instead look at the fact he has been playing strong all game, and if I can avoid it, won't be lynched any time soon. On April 10 2012 20:55 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 20:53 Hassybaby wrote:On April 10 2012 20:52 Zealos wrote:
I'm pretty sure you were the first to bring up his past play? (being good at mafia and not town)
I originally stated that I thought his town play was good, and was promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. I am failing to see what exactly you are scared of from WBG, are you scum? and afraid of him catching you out? Maybe you just want to make the whole thread get derailed again? I feel this is the last we should talk of his past play, and instead look at the fact he has been playing strong all game, and if I can avoid it, won't be lynched any time soon. Then that's the last we'll speak about it. I only want you to use your own brain, and not follow him because you think that he's a better player overall. I did use my own brain, if you read my original statement. But ok. Who do you think is the most scummy so far? WBG? Or someone else? Lol 6 posts. Why is him being good scum not relevant? He hasn't done anything really townie in my eyes so maybe hes tricking the shit out of you. Or you both are just scum. Also you mention him actively scum-hunting, can you back it up? Cause honestly I don't see it in his filter. I find the quote of you at the top of this post really ironic cause besides throw down a vote and blow your load for WBG you haven't done anything to influence this game or help the town in any way. Step up your game in day 2, your presence in day 1 didn't affect anyones decision on anything, nor bring any new opinions to the table. Lets just say I wouldn't cry if you were shot. Here is him defending WBG, cannot back it up and just ignores it. On April 11 2012 17:51 Zealos wrote:
It's a fair point you make in the 2nd half of the post, and should have said that to begin with, instead of getting so pissy. I think it's easy to point me as inactive as I miss most of the discussion while I am asleep, and have to catch up and try to post something useful in the morning.
I think WBG is very difficult to analyse. I am leaning towards scum, but I think VE would be a stronger lynch for today. Kenpachi seems useless, making odd votes and not often trying to make a case about it, or convince the rest of town to vote the same way.
I think you are town. However, I also think you are getting too emotionally attached to the game and need to step back and look at the bigger picture. An angry town is a bad town, we need to analyse posts with objectivity in order to get the best reads.
Scum
VisceraEyes
Possibly Toad, based on the VE flip
Suspicious
Kenpachi
Zelblade (inactivity and unwilling to post, I'd like him to answer the same questions as me)
The people I think are town
Jitsu
ET
Gonzaw
Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia) What, now WITHOUT REASON WBG is leaning scum. Why? Explain yourself damnit! Also this is one of his posts responding to me saying hes useless. This is his idea of scum hunting. Making a list. Great job. On April 11 2012 19:24 Zealos wrote:
Oh, and I also think Johnnywup is scum. Randomly stated in Day 2. Says his explanation is from day 1, lets check that out. On April 09 2012 18:41 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 15:20 Risen wrote:Going to quote my long post at the end of the previous page so it doesn't get lost by people scanning the thread. What do you guys think of this? I put a good amount of effort into it :/ + Show Spoiler +On April 09 2012 14:41 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 12:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yo Risen who would you kill right now?
Name some scum and give some reasons.
As for gonzaw, about what you said about vets not taking action: there's several things to consider here.
1. You don't need to post all the time to "take action." Some of the best scumhunters on this forum, e.g. Foolishness, sandroba, syllogism, Incognito, Ver, etc. don't often post that much, especially not day 1. In fact, I think they actually perform better because of it.
2. Sometimes it takes a while to discern bad play from actual scum play. I've always had a hard time doing that and right now I can honestly tell you that there must be townies in the game who are not playing well, because I think they are scummy and there cannot be a scumteam of 15 people.
3. There are probably a million real-life excuses any one of these players could come up with to explain their (in)activity that would be completely alignment-irrelevant. I, for example, originally intended to be a replacement but I was graced with a role PM by GM on game start. Ok I have to go work out right now, I promise I'm going to be analyzing people/posting my thoughts on them in a giant spoiler tomorrow morning. Thought I'd have plenty of free time but my sister guilt tripped the shit out of me and made me be a family kind of guy today. + Show Spoiler +I really don't like VE. I originally thought oh hey he's just trying to get a wagon started on me so he can get some analysis of anyone who agrees with him, but he's been harping it for so long now. It seems really dumb to me. I want him to be town so bad b/c I like his posting otherwise. Contrary to my earlier posting, I'm not getting any scum vibes off ET and I really like his posting thus far (past our little shit storm early on) Zephirdd seems pretty cool to me. He freaked out when I initially called out ET, but he since has shown a little faith in me. Also, I like that he's calling people out for scummy shit, like michaelthe's vote. Kenpachi is useless, but it's day 1 and I'm not expecting real contributions, just action (he isn't acting much either, but he posted some thoughts on sloosh. How he doesn't understand why sputnik is suspicious is beyond me) MG calls VE out on his bullshit meta read and he also hates the dual personality troll FourFace. Seems solid to me. Blazinghand comes out of nowhere with a post on Fourface, and while he caught flak for it because lets face it, Fourface is one of the easier targets in this game, at least he's posting. He also calls out S.T for his trash. I don't think anyone has talked as much as Tunkeg, or been as useless. I think he spent way too much time pushing his "random" vote that NO ONE ELSE THINKS IS RANDOM. He makes a meta call on Toad which is ok, leaves room to grow on later. I absolutely do not like what he did, but hey at least it got people talking. Oh and this On April 09 2012 07:38 Tunkeg wrote:
Also some more funny statistics from my list. Town is 6-14-1 (tie) in 2012 (including Game of Thrones). For the last 15!!! games town is 2-13. Why, well I'd say because players suck at reading the game (I am pretty sucky at this as well). But at least I don't just vote on anyone who have an idea that isn't to my liking. The ones voting for me now are the ones who makes town lose every game, they don't have a clue whats scummy and whats not... What the fuck kind of useless shit is this? Jackal is trying to troll me early on, but I got what I wanted out of the ET tunnel so it's no biggie. As for the rest of his posts, dude wtf is it with you and Tunkeg? Everyone knows his "random" shit is retarded, you don't need to go on and on about it, and that's almost literally all you've done. Not being useful at all, and if Tunkeg just wanted to pressure Jackal then I'd say he's doing a good job, because Jackal hasn't done anything good this game. Whoops how could I forget this! On April 09 2012 11:35 Jackal58 wrote:
Janaan is scum. Yeah... Stormtrout. You're doing great bro, keep on truckin. Lyter you always amaze me. This is his standard town play from what I've seen. He doesn't participate and he just makes sure he sin't modkilled for inactivity (which he hasn't done yet, better get on that bro). I honestly never wanted to play another game with him after GoT but I'm not a host. I'd never allow him in my games but whatever. Adam has a single post in this game, and even though he nailed my case against ET as paper thin, I think he's absolutely useless. Then again, it's easter, maybe he's busy. We'll see tomorrow. I don't like Katina's vote on Toad, but to be honest I don't blame him for it entirely. At the time I thought Toad's post was largely useless as well. He's pushing pretty hard on Toad right now, we'll see how it develops. I hate his instant town read on ET. Screams bullshit to me. Pretty scummy just because of that one thing, but I don't know if one thing makes him scum. Grackaroni is posting largely filler. Oh Tunkeg's case against Jackal is stupid? Thank heaven you told me that. I thought it was air-tight! Then he says this On April 09 2012 03:27 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 03:22 Zephirdd wrote:
Grack, do you really believe 4F is the easiest target right now? What do you think about the S.T who looks much like a noob scum(as pointed out by BH)?
4F is definitely the easiest target. He said that he will not justify his votes and that he doesn't care about the game. You can tell he is the easy target just from the last couple posts alone voting for him. It's still day1 but I think that S.T looks like a noob scum because he is a noob scum and I think that Tunkeg was trying to protect him by chainsaw attacking BH. What the... Wha... I don't even... What does that last line even mean? Artanis posts something along the lines of "Don't lynch people just because they're bad" Sweet dude. Any thoughts on anyone who's been posting? He's lurking, what can I say? I like hassybaby's posting style tbh. On the other hand, he's made one post of substance since the game started. Within that post, though, he fingers who he thinks is the best lynch target and explains his actions. Jitsu. You've called me out for saying I voted ET for his smileys, when I've made it clear since that it was an idiotic case meant to generate discussion and flush out someone looking for an easy bandwagon. How am I conforming? I'll wait for him to read through everyone's filter tomorrow since he had to go to sleep tonight apparently. Ghost has made some posts, but he's in the same boat as the lurkers. Mementoss doesn't appear scummy to me. He's got one substantive post, but it's quality. I'll wait to see more from him since he says he's keeping an eye on filters. I don't get what Toads didn't like about my post where I called out Katina. He's generating discussion, though, asking questions that aren't heavily biased, and I like that. The one thing I think is super pro-town is discussion, and he's been doing just that while generating it himself. Not a lynch target imo I haven't read through much of gonzaw's filter, but he's posting a lot and I haven't seen a case on him. I'm not voting for someone day 1 who is talking that much. I like talking. Talking is pro-town. I'll go more into depth on this in the morning when I read through filters and analyze more heavily. I hate johnnywup and I want him dead. Why? Because of this. On April 09 2012 11:07 johnnywup wrote:
I'm willing to kill Risen if it comes down to it. I Doesn't mention me a SINGLE time before this. Suddenly sees a potential train on Risen developing and drops a little line that will pave the way for him later should he decide to vote me. I hate, hate, hate him and I hope he's lynched today or shot tonight (unless he wants to come in and try to justify that?) Time for another person I dislike. Fourface. I don't care that there's a huge wagon on him right now. How can you not dislike this guy? Is he trying to protect himself by appearing as an easy lynch so therefor don't lynch him b/c scum looks for easy lynches? WIFOM or something idk, thinking about dual personality players makes my head hurt and I hate it. I don't like newbie claims. Pregame jokes aside, I don't think I'm a noop is a good defense and posting it isn't doing anything to help you look town. Just gives people a reason to doubt your analysis. I feel like he defended himself from gonzaw in an adequate manner. Don't think he's a good vote Day 1. Ohhhh zealos. I don't like how he definitively says townies are voting for ET. How do you know they're townies? Maybe they're scum. Not something huge, but it's worth noting. Also... On April 09 2012 05:40 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:30 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And it's my tunneling that started discussion of ANYTHING in the first place VE, you're full of horse manure. We've had plenty of discussion not based around the use of smiley faces in a post. You just seem to be making pointless points followed by a poor ramshackle defense. Yeah I know we have, which is probably why I said I STARTED the discussion of anything in the first place, not that it was ALL we had discussed. Reading comprehension. Don't know whether he's being intentionally thick or just misread it. I don't like sputnik. Sorry but a blend post and an outrage post at being called out for a blend post aren't working in your favor. slOosh hasn't posted anything useful. Sweet you called out Tunkeg... anything else to add? I can't tell anything with wbg, I can't tell if he voted ET just to try and flush out someone like FF or what. I like that he appears to be taking the game seriously now, though. Zelblade calls out something he shouldn't call out, and then doesn't do anything else useful with his posting. Don't like him. michaelthe has a point that most day1 reads are going to be crap, but you have to try. Otherwise why not just nolynch? (I am NOT advocating this at all) Well fuck. I was supposed to go work out at ten, but it's looking like eleven now. Got a little wrapped up in that. To answer the original question. Who would I kill? I would kill johnnywup. In keeping with this. ##unvote EchelonTee
##vote johnnywup I like your point on Grack, and it's one that hasn't been talked about much already. I agree that he seems to be posting a lot of filler and not really deciding on much. He seems like a pretty typical lurker, and I would lynch him if no better target appeared. BUT: I think Johnny seems the strongest target atm. You make a good point when you notice him just jumping on with no real reasoning. As I said earlier, people who just vote with no analysis or reason for their vote seem very scummy for me, so I'm going to agree with you on that point. ##vote: johnnywup But, this makes no sense Zealos. Your reasoning for voting and finding Johnny scummy is his bandwagoning early on Risen, but who you thought was strongly town and defended WBG, did the same thing to the same person. Inconsisent in his views. Making shit up on the spot. On April 12 2012 00:37 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 00:05 Mementoss wrote:On April 12 2012 00:01 Zealos wrote:
In general we need more towns actually posting thoughts, instead of just agreeing and disagreeing. Come on people, atm, it could just be mafia leading the entire discussion. Coming from someone who just jumps in and agrees and disagrees and never posts full out opinions on things, just vague general nonsense. Never scum hunts and waits for others to do work for him to come in later to agree or disagree with it. Show nested quote +I'm pretty sure you were the first to bring up his past play? (being good at mafia and not town)
I originally stated that I thought his town play was good, and was promoting a scum hunting atmosphere. I am failing to see what exactly you are scared of from WBG, are you scum? and afraid of him catching you out? Maybe you just want to make the whole thread get derailed again? I feel this is the last we should talk of his past play, and instead look at the fact he has been playing strong all game, and if I can avoid it, won't be lynched any time soon. Show nested quote +VE has posted a LOT of useless filler. At the start of the game he said to be the "policy police" to which he follows with no policy all game (or something along those lines)
He also seems very happy to have the town in complete chaos, and does little to actually find scum. If we don't lynch VE today I would be pretty sad after Toads case, and should VE flip scum, then we can re-evaluate Toad.
##Vote: VisceraEyes Show nested quote +
It's a fair point you make in the 2nd half of the post, and should have said that to begin with, instead of getting so pissy. I think it's easy to point me as inactive as I miss most of the discussion while I am asleep, and have to catch up and try to post something useful in the morning.
I think WBG is very difficult to analyse. I am leaning towards scum, but I think VE would be a stronger lynch for today. Kenpachi seems useless, making odd votes and not often trying to make a case about it, or convince the rest of town to vote the same way.
I think you are town. However, I also think you are getting too emotionally attached to the game and need to step back and look at the bigger picture. An angry town is a bad town, we need to analyse posts with objectivity in order to get the best reads.
Scum
VisceraEyes
Possibly Toad, based on the VE flip
Suspicious
Kenpachi
Zelblade (inactivity and unwilling to post, I'd like him to answer the same questions as me)
The people I think are town
Jitsu
ET
Gonzaw
Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia)
^^ I have made stances and useful posts, if not in the VE and Toad style of posting a huge wall of text in the guise of "Being active" Also, Marvel's only real criticism is just a lot of use of the old catchall catchphrase WIFOM, which VE himself called out to be a pointless phrase, and only leads to pointless discussion. Points out people being useless, and need to work on scumhunting, like he has been doing all game. Oh wait, here is what he was doing. Lets go through it. 1st post, OMGUS, you think WBG is scummy, YOUR SCUM! 2nd post, WIFOM, toad flips scum VE is town and vice vera, not scum hunting 3rd post, Summary: -Kenpachi useless, no shit -WBG leaning scum hard to analyse, then why is he leaning scum and not null? Explain -Here is a cop out list, so it looks like I have opinions, without having to explain myself! Brillllliant! Overall Zealos has been posting enough so people know his name. But has not brought a unique case or idea to the table, basically just states what he agrees and disagrees with and has been inconsistent with his own opinions. Also against VE for being a hypocrite, posting a case against Toad just because OMGUS. Well don't you rememeber when Toad did this to Gonzaw? YOU GUNNA DIE TOMMORROW GONZZZZAW. <- direct quote btw. Inconsistent yet again in his thoughts. Can't keep together his made up story.
WBG:
+ Show Spoiler +Look at his filter. Initially starts with fluff and explaining himself. Then goes to asking everyone questions about anything, while avoiding following up on the answer. Or actually giving his opinion on anything. "There are currently two people I'd like to lynch, one whom I won't mention because I want to see him post more without my intervention." Avoiding stating his opinion with statements like this. I want to see what other people post so I can agree or disagree or restate it. Derp, I don't have an opinion I am scumm. On April 10 2012 05:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also of note he wants to line up the lynches and gives no regard to the possibility that he could be wrong. He's actually trying to dictate day 2's lynch today (by saying we should kill St tomorrow)
##unvote
##vote Hassybaby Inconsistency. Just like his scum buddy Zealos. His reason for voting Hassy was for saying who we should lynch afterwards. Which is a poor reason and was barely dug into hassy's case at all, UNTIL VE was like here is a case, and WBG was like oh man I agree. That is why I suspected him too I just never said it. Why is this inconsistent thinking? This reason for voting hassy doens't apply to Toad? Toad did the exact same thing saying Hassy then VE and we win. On April 10 2012 09:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
From my perspective, I found it somewhat odd that people were all of a sudden willing to lynch Hassy. I didn't expect it, but I didn't care much because I need support to be able to kill Hassy anyway. So far the support has not come from suspicious players to me (I count one potential scum in the Hassy lynch supporters, unless I'm just being bad right now)
To me this indicates one of a few different possibilities;
1. Hassy was scummy to several people but not brought up because of the current sentiment to lynch Janaan (i.e. potential resistance to a new lynch this late would make it difficult or possibly even impossible to kill Hassy)
2. Janaan is scum and Hassy is town, which indicates scum want to kill Hassy over Janaan. We'd find out relatively quickly if that were the case, though, I think. (and by that, I mean within a cycle or so) So far I don't find any glaring indications of this.
3. Both are town, both are scum, or Hassy is scum and Janaan is town; in the first case, anything goes. In both of the second cases resistance to a Hassy lynch is just indication of a good lynch. His posts consist of shit like this. Wasting time, not important and derailing discussion. Look through his filter. Look how much independant (aka not being prodded or copying another case) scum-hunting he did. Thats right you can't find any. Trying to get town cred by not being on the Janaan train until later. Completely off Hassys ass after the flip, without really giving a good reason for it. After being so confident he was a scum. Defended Vig against toad yesterday, but wanted vig against michael and Jackal, two people dead and town. On April 10 2012 13:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
I meant ST would make a good DT check, not ghost, sorry. Trying to waste DT check? ST would be a horrrrible DT check. He had a high chance of being shot that night, and was just a shitty shitty player. On April 10 2012 13:24 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 13:20 MidnightGladius wrote:I've done a preliminary gloss of the votes. Three players (VE, johnny, michael) all voted first for Janaan, then switched to Hassy, then switched back to Janaan. That in itself is unusual enough to merit some discussion, but VisceraEyes moved his vote from Risen to Jackal to Tunkeg to Janaan to Hassybaby to Janaan, a total of 5 switches. Now, normally I don't like playing by meta, but I figured that this needed to be checked up on. In terms of Day 1 voting: In SoaF, town VE voted: Cyber_Cheese, EchelonTee, Cyber_Cheese (lynching town C_C) 2 switches In LII, [green]town VE[/town] voted: Caller (no lynch) 0 switches In C9++, town VE voted: johnnywup, Tobon, Jackal (lynching scum Jackal) 2 switches In Storm, SK VE voted: redFF, Dirkzor, redFF, (unvote), redFF, BloodyCobbler, Blazinghang, BloodyCobbler, (lynching town redFF) 7 switches In Arkham City, scum VE voted: kitaman, layabout, Sheth (lynching town C_C) 2 switches Unfortunately, the search results don't go any further than that. While I dislike making reads on meta alone, and I don't consider this sufficient evidence one way or the other, I do have to conclude that a town VE, on average, switches fewer times, while scum VE, on average, switches more times, and that at the moment, he has switched a notably high number of times. Now, let's look at his behavior, and we can see how he attempts to justify his actions: In his first post, VE advocates lynching a lurker, if no scummier alternatives are found. However, he soon revises his position to insist on a scum lynch. Why the change in focus? Remember, throughout this, he's been gently pushing Risen, and after announcing his change in lynch policy, more explicitly pushes for Risen and WBG, but still doesn't place his vote. When he does, however, he states: On April 09 2012 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Now, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep voting for you unless I'm convinced that you're being straight up with this ruse bullshit. Right now I think it's nonsense, but because you're suspicious of Bugs (someone I'm also suspicious of), I'm willing to entertain the idea that maybe THIS time town could actually be that dumb. Prove me wrong guy. (emphasis mine) This is followed up with: On April 09 2012 10:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Risen is the guy I'd kill today. 100%. It might be leftover rancor from JubJub and letting Caller get away, but his little bullshit earlier is basically a carbon-copy of the stupid shit Caller pulled and I'm not letting it fly this game.
I'm willing to consolidate at the end of the day, but if I had a bullet it would have Risen's name on it. However, he unvotes Risen, though Risen hadn't done much to respond to VE's bolded concerns above. VE then targets lurkers. Remember what he posted earlier about aiming for a scum lynch? Here it is, again. Apparently, they're on the radar again, and VE immediately votes for Jackal. Well, that's Switch #1. Switch #2 comes in his very next post, to Tunkeg (in the interests of consolidating). He even has a pre-emptive anti-bandwagoning warning in place, but there is absolutely no justification here. None at all. He then unvotes Tunkeg, again providing no reasoning. In the same post, despite pegging Hassy and Toad as scum with a great deal of conviction, he does Switch #3 and votes for Janaan, as a lurker. Despite saying that he wanted to lynch Hassy, he put his vote elsewhere, on another growing bandwagon, this time Janaan. VE was the 12th person to vote for Janaan. This is followed by quite a bit of pushing for Hassy, which VE even acknowledges is unlikely to swing enough votes onto Hassy in time. However, he does see this as an opportunity to commence with Switch #4, and place his vote on Hassy, encouraging all of the players to sheep with him and draw votes onto Hassy. Unsurprisingly, Switch #5 back onto Janaan follows after Hassy fails to gain more than a few votes. He defends this switch by claiming that he was okay with lynching Janaan as a lurker all along, again contradicting the policy in his very first post. Also note that the only post that refers to Janaan is the one that has Hassy and Toad in big red bold letters as scum, with barely any reasoning on Janaan. And that's that. I don't like what I see here. VE broke faith on two of his very first promises, giving up on the "atmosphere police" and waffling on his lurker lynching policies. He switched votes unusually frequently and (for the first three) without reason. His last vote switch would have achieved nothing but the threat of a no-lynch, and his attempts to defend his switch from and back to Janaan is unsupported by his actual posting patterns. VisceraEyes is scum. Your "analysis" based on his vote switching doesn't determine anything, particularly because, as you mentioned, he only switched his vote twice in Arkham where he was scum. Just because there's one instance of him switching a lot in Storm (a game full of really stupid plays day 1) that doesn't carry anything over to this game. All you've done in this post really is summarize VE's play...summarizing VE's play doesn't show us why he's scum. In fact, his switch back to Janaan to ensure that we actually lynch someone is a pretty pro-town move, albeit one that CAN be made by both alignments. If he was scum I doubt he would have supported a Hassy counterlynch to begin with unless Hassy was also town (and that would have been a brilliant move by any scum) Defends VT earlier.. But yet nothing new has come in play. And now he is voting for VE. ... Since it seems between VE and Toad, just defending his scum again? (vigshot and lynch) On April 11 2012 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Toad continued herpin and derpin all the way to his coinflip Vig shot on chaoser in Arkham bugs...you really think he's going to be "figurable" later?
I don't. I think he looks bad enough now. sure, that's fine if you disagree. Toad is one of those players who is generally so unreadable for me I just ignore him and let the other mafia die first. So far we haven't been in a situation where Toad would become readable; we need to see whether he will be willing to kill mafia or not. As no mafia have flipped, how do we know he is? Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:49 MidnightGladius wrote:
Johnny is on neither of your lists, but he looks pretty bad to me. He admitted to pointlessly sheeping VE, has provided no substantial scumreads on his own, and is not particularly active. What's your reasoning for not mentioning him anywhere? If a player admits to something that is normally really bad to admit, chances are they are not actually scum because scum usually would not purposely admit something like that. New scum, at any rate. Johnnywup is a relatively new player, and while he has said some (somewhat suspicious) things, I don't find him as scummy as other players because he actually has been relatively active and transparent. Those are luxuries not normally afforded by scum.He has certainly been more active than most of the targets I proposed. He has as many posts as you do, for one. New players sheeping well-known players isn't necessarily a scummy trait, IMO. Johnnywup's town team in C9++ won almost solely because they sheeped sandroba and VE, for one. I actually thought him saying that he was sheeping VE was simply indicative of him tending toward a strategy that previously proved effective. Defneding Johnny for no reason. His reason is that hes more active and transparent. Doesn't back this up. And these surely aren't Johnnys traits. Hes been pretty lurkish as far as I can tell. Basically just read through WBG filter. Count the fluff. Its mostly just discussing random shit that has nothing to do with scum-hunting, but at first glance it looks half useful.
BH:
+ Show Spoiler +Done in Blazinghand style: If image doesn't work please right click and open in other tab it is important. Hey I can try to discredit people in shitty paint drawings. I was wrong about ST eating my hat now. Oh shit, night time. Sleep through whole phase. Back to lurking!
Other Thoughts
@ET: I believe your claim, IMO closest thing to a "confirmed town" right now (50%)
@Grackaroni,Katina - Stop fucking lurking
@Gonzaw: I think your town right now, based on my new thoughts on Toad. Your activity is great, but the tone in your posts feel like LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I AM IMPORTANT. Stop doing that. It feels like your cutting off any discussion from anything other than your cases and are so active you drown things out. You don't let people form there own cases and opinions cause you question to death.
All that being said.
##Vote: Toadesstern
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On April 11 2012 23:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:02 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 09 2012 03:52 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 03:38 Katina wrote:
Toad is looking scummy to me. He says a lot in his few posts without saying anything. I start zoning off halfway through his posts. Has anyone actually read his posts all the way through? He tires to look like he's contributing with his long posts when he's just rambling on and on and on...... Toad is all over the place and doesn't have a focus.
##Vote Toadesstern What's your point on me when you say I'm not having focus? My reasoning on saying WBG is suspicious to me? My post about how I don't want people to troll the first 24 hours like people usually do? I haven't said much so far because I've been told to post less the last couple games from people like WBG and BC so if you'd say I'm looking weird because I'm not my usual spammy self I'd agree to a point as I'm trying to be less spammy but I don't really see your point on me. I just can't see how you could possibly say I'm saying nothing when I'm one of the VERY few people in here who actually talk about scum reads while explaining them and why people are scummy rather than just "yep, think X is scummy". I mean half the thread is talking about wether or not a random lynch is something useful or if Tunkeg is weird for suggesting such a thing. That's all stuff that's incredible easy to do for mafia because that's stuff that people can have different opinions on and you can't be "wrong" on that matter. So again, what's your point on me because imo everything you said about me makes me look townish (obviously I'm trying to look townish because of what you quoted from foolish) while the other stuff we got so far (as mentioned, the tungek stuff / random lynch) should be considered a nullread. Wait, what? Can you explain the bolded bit please? Townies don't "try to look townish"...you're missing the point of what Foolishness said entirely. Townies try and find and destroy scum. In doing so, they "look townish". They don't "try" and look townish so the rest of town can find scum easier - in what way does "trying" to look townish help you find scum? Sure townies try to look townish as in they should give the thread a chance to properly read them. For example Kenpachi is not doing that which is the reason I don't like him. So I am trying to make sure to you that I am actually a townie because that leaves you guys with one less option to lynch into. Way to fail on that one Toad. VE is right, and *especially* he is right when the game is so early. There is no way you can confirm yourself as town, so trying to make yourself look townish is fruitless, dumb, and scummy. So Toad has kinda backed himself into a hole here, and has to continue on with it Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:49 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 04:38 Katina wrote:On April 09 2012 03:52 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 03:38 Katina wrote:
Toad is looking scummy to me. He says a lot in his few posts without saying anything. I start zoning off halfway through his posts. Has anyone actually read his posts all the way through? He tires to look like he's contributing with his long posts when he's just rambling on and on and on...... Toad is all over the place and doesn't have a focus.
##Vote Toadesstern What's your point on me when you say I'm not having focus? My reasoning on saying WBG is suspicious to me? My post about how I don't want people to troll the first 24 hours like people usually do? I haven't said much so far because I've been told to post less the last couple games from people like WBG and BC so if you'd say I'm looking weird because I'm not my usual spammy self I'd agree to a point as I'm trying to be less spammy but I don't really see your point on me. I just can't see how you could possibly say I'm saying nothing when I'm one of the VERY few people in here who actually talk about scum reads while explaining them and why people are scummy rather than just "yep, think X is scummy". I mean half the thread is talking about wether or not a random lynch is something useful or if Tunkeg is weird for suggesting such a thing. That's all stuff that's incredible easy to do for mafia because that's stuff that people can have different opinions on and you can't be "wrong" on that matter. So again, what's your point on me because imo everything you said about me makes me look townish (obviously I'm trying to look townish because of what you quoted from foolish) while the other stuff we got so far (as mentioned, the tungek stuff / random lynch) should be considered a nullread. I'm saying that you are acting like Mafia bcause they don't have a focus, ramble, don't contribute, etc. You try so hard to direct everthing back onto me instead of responding to what I said. You say that you're not being your usual spammy self but I didn't even bring that up as an arguement. You're being dodgy and responding to a arguments against you that weren't even made little frog. Why do you have to act townish? That's a pretty interesting thing to say.... If your town then you shouldn't have to say your acting townish. That sounds Mafiaish. I brought that up because I said I don't understand what you're talking about when imo I'm one of the guy who IS actually taking stances in this thread which I consider to be focussed while the other stuff we got so far (stuff mafia can easily talk about) may appear focussed but actually isn't useful to find mafia at all because again: Those are topics you can have different opinions on very easily. So again, I don't understand what you are talking about when you say I am not focused because I think I am. That's why I brought up my not so spammish self because that COULD be a reason for people to think I'm weird although it really shouldn't be so I figured that's maybe what you're really referring to. I am not acting townish, I am trying to make sure to you guys I am a townie.
#1 priority: Make sure everyone knows you are town
#2 priority: Find and lynch mafia yourself#1 helps everyone in this game figure out mafia because there's less people to consider, #2 is nice once you've got #1 covered. If you got #2 covered you only need to start convincing people :p I never said I'm acting townish which is a completly different thing. No. #1 priority: find and lynch scum. Possible nice side-effect of #1: you look town to people. People with more knowledge of toad's meta than me: does a town Toad normally try to look so townish?Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote:
Sup guys. lynch Hassy tomorrow, lynch VE the day after that and we win.
I read this, did a double-take, and had to then go backwards in his filter again to have another look. From where the sudden certainty on VE?! All toad posted previously on the VE matter is this: Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 03:48 Toadesstern wrote:
VE looks really weird. I don't think his play is off. However I had the same feeling about him in C9++ where I said that I'd probably instalynch VE as a townie based on the fact that he changed his style so weirdly in that game. So it's the same as Tunkeg: I'm getting a weird feeling and I'm not sure if I like that or not. I'd like to give him more time as well as I think I'm pretty decent in figuring out VE. I called him mafia in Storm (SK), I called him mafia in AC (mafia) and I called him a liar who's fakeclaiming on purpose in L which made me think he'd be a mafia in that game. The liar who fakeclaimed was right but the mafia read was wrong. So again, I'd like to see some more from VE to properly understand what I'm seeing from him this game.
VE looks weird? a weird feeling? and he's not sure yet. He seems to have leapt from this to WE SHOULD LYNCH VE. Ok, that's fine - let's continue down your post (beyond the pointless waffling about previous games) to see why should we lynch VE. Let's have a look at the damning evidence he has lined up against VE: Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote:
(pretty sure VE is a mafia who's being stupid on purpose though)
However I don't like VE requesting medic protection for him and wbg only ... wow. Mindblowing case. But at least we know it's Hassy and VE he's after, don't we? Wrong. Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 02:48 Toadesstern wrote:On April 11 2012 02:34 gonzaw wrote:
Thank you Toad for another pointless post from you.
1)
Yes you are tunneling me, even if you "think" I'm town. The only focus of your posts is trying discredit me, arguing with me and saying how I'm an idiot. You can't possibly say that's untrue, that last post of yours is proof of that.
2)
I'm not tunneling you, or if I am I try not to. I'm giving you plenty of opportunities to redeem yourself by asking for your reads and thoughts of the game so far, which you clearly refuse to do and instead try to discredit me more.
3)
P.S: I can't possibly believe anyone will think those things I pointed out are town traits. Filler and fluff-filled posts that say nothing, not contributing at all, not giving reads when asked, not commenting on what's happening in the thread, being too verbose and making heavy posts that ultimately say nothing are the opposite of town traits.
@Katina: Please post your thoughts on the events of the last day.
What do you think of ST? What do you think about the Hassy wagon that formed 5 hours before the day ended? What do you think about the people involved in them, or about the people that opposed it and decided to keep their vote on Janaan? Ok screw this, you die tomorrow. Seriously. I am going through this one by one. 1) Thanks for repeating what I just said. It's night. I'm not going to make big cases at night and tell everyone what I said. You're basicly asking me to help mafia here. 2) That's a lie. There's not a single question I did not answer. Show me a question from ANYONE (not even only you) in this thread I did not answer. I told you about my reads, you even agreed that I did that yesterday and said something along the lines "well yes you did, but I shouldn't have to ask you, you should be telling me your reads without me having you to ask you" which is obviously again asking me to help mafia. 3) You haven't pointed out a SINGLE THING until now. You keep on saying I am wishy washy and not taking stances. I know I am posting walls of text a lot but I AM taking stances. I said what I think about tunkeg, I said what I think about Janaan, I said what I think about Ghost & Hassy, I said what I think about WBG, I said what I think about Kenpachi, I said what I think about VE. How am I not giving reads? And again, everything else is what I do all the time although I don't think I'm not contributing. People actually already said stuff along the lines "yes Toad posts wall of text but he is contributing and although it's a little heavy on text you can see what he's trying to say". So no that's just not true. Not to begin with the fact that you keep on saying my style is completly different from my other games yet you haven't shown a single example of something like that, but keep on saying so while complaining I haven't shown that my style actually is the same as one of the games. Newsflash, even if my style is completly different (which a lot of people already said is bullshit) compare L with Storm, or AC with Storm, or L with AC. Is my style exactle the same all the time? Hell most people called me out in Storm because my style was so different that game d1. What was my alignment in all those 3 games?!?!? Right town. There's simply no way you're that wrong. I'm getting you lynched tomorrow. What a massive OMGUS. "Forget my other lynches guys, I don't like gonzaw's argument so he is now #1 LYNCH." What really? Finally comes the massive gonzaw/VE post. Massive WIFOM on the nightkills, and continuing OMGUS on gonzaw. Perhaps more noticeably, he talks about himself an awful lot. The best way of clearing yourself as town is to hunt scum, yet the massive scumhunting post was actually very little of the sort. This is the first time I read Toad's filter in its entirety, and I am surprised. He is coming across as pretty scummy and I'm pretty happy right now for him to be today's lynch.
Could someone please explain this guy that he's wrong and I am actually right? I don't think he's believing me for whatever reason.
Making sure noone thinks you are mafia IS #1 priority. Ask any vet on this forum. ANY. Palmar, rad, wbg, gm, syllo, they will all tell you that it is. Except for sandro maybe.
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@Rest of thread:
Mainly Toad
Stop quoting huge fucking posts and putting 2 lines of shit under them. At least spoil the quote, then we know what your talking about but don't have to ruin the readability of the thread.
Also I know your just trying to make your filter look bigger than it is. Its okay.
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On April 11 2012 23:57 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:53 Zealos wrote:
I don't find Toad's case to be all that bad. If you care to pick it apart properly then I would be all ears. Last I checked VE did that himself. And I did too. Care taking a look at those and than say that Toad's case is "not bad"?
I answered those and explained why what VE says is wrong on so many levels. I'm not sure I actually commented you post as well.
So no, I don't think anyone picked my case apart and I therefore I think it holds. Haven't read anything that makes me think otherwise until now oO
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Mementoss, I could try and make a whole new unique view on things, but right now the we need to decide about the VE versus Toad case.
I am siding with Toad as I think he case is better than VE's. I don't think it is watertight or perfect, but between the 2, it seems VE is more keen to just stir things up and cause no progress for town, until the point where Toad makes a case against him, to which he makes a big long load of fluff up about Toad.
If we can lynch VE today then we'll be back on the right track in my opinion.
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@Tunkeg You need to read everything or at least skim if you are so slow at reading, if you stop reading people you "think" are town you will never be convinced otherwise god dammit. Your brain seems to have a switch. Sometimes it uses logic, sometimes it doesn't.
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On April 11 2012 17:51 Zealos wrote:
The people I think are town
Jitsu
ET
Gonzaw
Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia)
Hey Zealos, can you enlighten me as to the reasons why you think those four players are Town? I would appreciate it.
I'm not too sure if the case on VE is scum driven, or only partially being pushed by scum. I haven't read thru Toad's case in total yet, but I will be looking at both Toad's and VE's cases on each other in the future. Just skimming it, both have solid points, and both have shit points.
The reason I am think the VE votes are partly scum driven is reasoning like this.
On April 12 2012 00:07 Tunkeg wrote:
Why I think VE is scum:
1.Holding a low profile on day 1. Posting just enough to not be called a lurker, just too little to get any attention. He comments on the obvious stuff, and try to look active, but never really take a hard stance on anyone. “Well this 95 % of town on day 1, you can’t seriously think THIS is why he is scum” Well, no not alone, but together with the rest it makes sense. He makes some “cases” near the end of day 1. But don’t stick to his reads. Way to go if you are town…
2.Vote vote vote, BUT, with no reasoning behind it. You guys have mentioned it before, but this is such a big read that I must include it. He vote Risen for his case on ET, really a pisspoor reason for a vote. He then votes Jackal, for giggles. He then votes me, for no reason, and to concolidate he says (NOOO, he did it to get in on a bandwagon that was seemingly out of control), he makes his HB=scum, Toad=scum but I go for janaan post, switches to HB when it starts to get in motion and then back again. Especially his consolidate votes are just utterly rubbish. “But a lot of other players did this as well, why aren’t you calling them scum?” Well, most of them are dead and/or noobs, I expect more from experienced players!
3.ME SO ANGRY, ME TYPE IN CAPS. He is clearly pretending to be angry, just like he did in AC. He have responded to pressure the same way in this game as he did in AC. The caps typing was the final nail.
4.He have overall been superwierd in this game.
Also I suck at writing cases, but I know I am right on VE though. Also when VE flip I know 100% the next target. Not been mentioned thus far, but won’t derail the thread with it. We need to stay focused and we need to lynch VE. We need to keep it simple, lynch the scummier player first (Read Ace’s journal from Death Factory 2!)!
How in the world is any of this indicative of him being 100% scum.
Your first point maintains the fact that he is lurking the thread. What about Johnnywup (I believe it was) who hadn't posted shite all night, but when Gladius mentions his name one time, he comes out with a quick defense before disappearing again. Keeping a low profile isn't really trying to vote switch a Hassybaby lynch at the last minute.
Your second point is partially invalid either. He votes Janaan after how many other people put votes on Janaan with little to no reasoning? Similar to the point on lurking, why would you single out Viscera when so many other players are guilty of it this game as well? My town attitude is to attempt to get a lynch on Day 1. If it misses, it misses, and we learn and recoup. At the point of his post, Janaan was probably (if i'm not mistaken) in the lead for lynch votes, and a miss-lynch would have been pretty bad.
I also don't see how jumping votes from one person to another is anti-town. Because you want to move your vote around and place it on players that you feel could cause reactions from other players? Sounds town to me. I guess if you could explain your reason as to why you think it's scummy to switch your votes, I might follow you, but all you are doing is giving a summary of his votes on Day 1 and not actually say why the act is scummy in and of itself.
The last two points are just plain silly. He's scum because he talks in caps lock? Viscera does that regardless of alignment. He's an enthusiastic player. You are really stretching this one to say that typing in Caps is a scumtell.
And the super-weird reasoning is strange too. How is he playing super weird? What makes you think he is playing super weird? I could say you are playing super bad, but it wouldn't matter unless I actually said it.
This is one of the reasons I think the VE case is a scum generated, or a scum pushed case. That, and the fact that right after Toad came out with the case, there was a massive swing of votes in his favor.
There is still a lot of time to review both of those cases on either player. I suggest everyone takes some time, clear their heads, and afterwards, re-reading both of them and taking notes. It already looks like VE v. Toad is going to be the Day2 lynch (regardless if other people have better suspects) so we might as well get it as right as possible.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I'm right and you're wrong isn't a defence. Two main cruxes of my post
1) you fingered VE as certain scum without making any sort of case until much later (see filter and my post)
2) you abandoned Hassy/VE to OMGUS gonzaw, twice saying "I will certainly get you lynched tomorrow".
Please answer these 2 at the very least.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
EBWOP: sorry, forgot to quote, above is aimed at Toad of course
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On April 12 2012 01:24 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 17:51 Zealos wrote:
The people I think are town
Jitsu
ET
Gonzaw
Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia)
Hey Zealos, can you enlighten me as to the reasons why you think those four players are Town? I would appreciate it.
Sure.
Jitsu = You have made no "Scumslips" as such all game, and have been promoting a protown atmosphere so far. You haven't been spamming up the thread constantly, and your posts have good substance.
ET = Claimed the vig hit with no-one trying to counter-claim. He had no reason to lie, and so I think he is town.
Gonzaw = Very outspoken, and has been making very solid cases. These sorts of posts:
+ Show Spoiler +I found this post pretty bad
1.I don't like this tone. He tries to undermine his own play right here, saying "bear with me while I get a handle...".
2.Why say this about VE? You "like" him because he wants to get rid of lurking in a proactive way? Are you kidding me? You are telling me you never played a game where people discussed lynching and killing lurkers?
It's more fluff to make it appear he's contributing.
3.Notice the words he uses. "I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic"; "I've got my eye on you".
First of all, he finds that behaviour from sloosh suspicious, which is totally bullshit since no sane scum with the Stealthy trait will directly talk about it in the thread instead of PMing the mods in the first place.
Second, he doesn't even seem to directly confront sloosh. He says "I find it interesting", seems too wishy washy to be an actual accusation. Again, seems like a classic scumtell of accusing someone without directly confronting them, hoping someone else will read it and confront sloosh about it; or to put some doubt in sloosh so he can come back to said suspicious later, while nobody notices said suspicion right now.
4. Again, more fluff. What motivation does he have to post this? Just more fluff (which is just a "retelling" of what's happening in the thread, it serves no purpose) to make his post look bigger. Each individual thing from your post isn't enough to make one think you are scum, but the fact that you made all of them in a single post looks very bad. I'd say you are scum, specially since you've posted almost nothing at all since, yet your post seemed to imply you were eager to participate and kind of "enthusiastic" about the game, which you clearly aren't.
That isn't too damning though, maybe it's the time-zone or something, but whenever I find lack of participation when one was eager to do so before suspicious I'm generally right.
##Vote: Janaan Regarding other lynch "candidates":
FourFace:
I still don't get what he's trying to do; but I don't see how his actions make him scum. He acted like this in previous games; I'd prefer if he's ignored, or at least the discussion is not about him. Saying he's "creating chaos" is only right if people start arguing about/with him and let the thread be clogged up with pointless "Oh 4face is anti-town oh oh" stuff.
Tunkeg:
His "win/loss ratio" list didn't do any good; but it's not an alignment tell.
I find his tone and posting style weird, like saying things like "Phone home, goddammed alien" and shit. That's certainly NOT the way he played when we played together; and apart from discussing his list/random lynch, and discrediting BH I haven't seen him contribute that much.
I don't know what to think about his behaviour (seems trollish, but again that doesn't determine his alignment); but I wouldn't be against killing him if he doesn't step up his game like I know he can do.
Wherebugsgo:
I dunno why, but I don't think he's scum because I think he would play better if he was scum; and I know some people think he plays "bad" as town.
Apart from some trolling of him, I don't find him scummy, and wouldn't want him lynched today.
Sputnik:
He's very aggressive, and so far he hasn't done anything scummy IMO.
Waiting for more contributions from him.
About Risen vs ET and other stuff:
The Risen vs ET thing has been fully covered I think.
2 players clogging the thread and going against each other because of some petty stuff. Nothing suspicious here, it actually makes me think both are town because of that.
I think Risen and ET are town for other reasons too (small ones actually), but if it doesn't help mentioning them I won't.
Although it was stupid for Risen to do so, but I can see where he's coming from (making "playful" posts, full of smileys, etc); but his execution was very bad.
I would like leaving him alone for now.
If you have any questions to me ask away. I chose not to comment on ALL interactions this game or ask questions to everybody since that didn't do very good last time I did it.
@sloosh: I'd like more contributions from you, you say that we shouldn't spend time arguing about the spreadshit, but you don't do anything yourself.
I wouldn't be against lynching Toad though; will post more about him after people comment on Janaan.
VE and BH are interesting cases.
Blazinghand:
Hmm, yes he seems to go against "easy" targets. And he didn't contribute anything at all other than going against ST and 4Face. I don't like this lack of contribution from him; and I know he's capable enough to contribute when he's town.
If he doesn't, then kill him by all means.
VisceraEyes:
Now he is more interesting yet. He did appear to be active (at one point) like he uses to when town.
However, I don't think he's acting like he does when town. He's not aggressive, and seems too neutral.
He asks some people questions, but then he's just around, and doesn't seem to make any stances.
He does make a stance on Risen, but way too late; and I don't think his reasons are too compelling either. He isn't contributing or pressuring people as much as I'd like.
I find his attitude weird as well, he say he will be the "atmosphere police", but I don't see him doing anything about it. He seems too playful as well, directly talking about Jackal and how he's "a boss"; or saying "If you want to vote for scum, perhaps try on a nice Risen? Or maybe I could entice you to indulge your fantasies and lynch a wherebugsgo? ".
So yep, I think both are suspicious and I'll keep my eye on them. (Also a good point about VE)
All make me think town, as they have good substance and are making an attempt to scumhunt.
The Toad point is fairly self explanatory and has been discussed to death he has been pushing super hard for a VE lynch, and it just depends how it flips.
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Mementoss, no bullshit here - what I'm about to say transcends whatever read you have on me. Please believe me when I tell you that I truly appreciate your attempt at formatting your post in an easy to read format that I'm able to follow easily and understand exactly what you're thinking.
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On April 11 2012 23:40 Tunkeg wrote:
Here is the scumteam and how they play the game now:
Viscera "Oh I am fucked anyways time to make some accusations on my scummate BH" Eyes
Adam "I will stab VE in the back and accuse BH for town cred" 4167
Ka " I love VE so much, don't kill him" tina
Blazing "I don't give a fuck about what you geezers are doing" Hand.
I am totally in Toads corner on this one. I am as certain as I have ever been i na mafia game --> VE is scum. Toad is bad at finding scum, I am bad at finding scum, but when we team up we are a beast. In Arkham City we hit scum everyday together. You can say we are T and T = TNT.
My post on why VE is scum comming up!
Hi, I was saw this and thought it was interesting.
If you have been reading the thread you would see that I think VE is scum and I would be more than happy with a VE or Toad lynch today.
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On April 12 2012 01:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Mementoss, no bullshit here - what I'm about to say transcends whatever read you have on me. Please believe me when I tell you that I truly appreciate your attempt at formatting your post in an easy to read format that I'm able to follow easily and understand exactly what you're thinking.
That was a useful post clearly designed to steer us to victory.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 01:16 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:35 ghost_403 wrote:I take it back. Most of the problems I had with what VE said stem from discussions that arise from the case the Toads brought up. Right now, I find Toads a lot scummier than I find VE. Gonzaw's defense of Toads strikes me as fishy, but there's no way I'm going to discuss a Gonzaw lynch right now. His Phase 1 portion of his eye cancer causing wall of text poast makes me mad. There's no reason for it at all. It doesn't prove his innocence, and it wasn't in response to something that someone else brought up. So why address it at all? I don't see a good reason for it. Reading it was a waste of my time. Aaaand the next guy talking about wifom? What do you suspect we do instead? Everyone keeps saying after lynches and nightkills "reread the thread and try and figure out what's going on". That's what I am doing. I know I am not 100% confirmed but what I said to me is the most logical conclusion. Again, why should I ask people to protect Jackal d1 when VE actively tried to discredit him making sure noone is going to protect him so he can singlehit.
Yes that's an educated guess but I am pretty sure we don't have mafia tripplestacking ST and 4 townies shooting each other and frankly that's what VE says I am not considering. Sure it's possible but how in the world would someone think about such a scenario?
Because he needs to think of such a stupid scenario for a vote on me to make sense at all.
At that time in the game I had a couple of votes. I wake up, see a horrible end for a night, think that at least I'll have some peace now and concentrate more on actually winning than on defending from the worst cases I ever saw. Noone is going to want and lynch me because of how clearly this should make sure that I am actually a townie and next thing I see there's a couple of votes on me and people bandwagoneing me without a reason while I am still basicly confirmed imo. That's why I had to spell out why it's wrong and how a Toad-Vote MAKES NO SENSE from a townie perspective. What kind of townie would assume such a weird scenario as the most plausible thing?
Also I am pretty sure VE knows I am looking incredible good right now taking what happend over night into consideration. There's no point denieing that. Of course I am not 100% confirmed, there's no 100% confirmed but HOW IN THE WORLD is lynching Toad after d1 lynch and n1 hits?
I am trying to understand what happened and again. I am pretty certain I have a good idea what happened and that backs me up. Yet VE and gonzaw get in this thread telling people that I am the lynch for today, saying "we cant possible try and read something out of lynches or nightkills, because that's wifom".
No it's not. This game is about figureing out what makes sense, what is likely to be the case. You need 20 different assumptions to make sure your case works? Well that might be right but why are you considering something like that when something with only 1 very reasonable assumption makes perfect sense as well?
Combine that, a couple of the other things he said, and the fact that I thought he was scum way back on Day 1, and you arrive at ##vote toads
Please commentate this. I don't understand what you are thinking by you making text red. Thank you. Im pretty sure you did this before. I read it. Some is odd. But you haven't even given a point of view. How is this supposed to convince anyone of anything? Im sure not everything in red is bad, you must have key points.
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On April 12 2012 01:24 Zealos wrote:
Mementoss, I could try and make a whole new unique view on things, but right now the we need to decide about the VE versus Toad case.
I am siding with Toad as I think he case is better than VE's. I don't think it is watertight or perfect, but between the 2, it seems VE is more keen to just stir things up and cause no progress for town, until the point where Toad makes a case against him, to which he makes a big long load of fluff up about Toad.
If we can lynch VE today then we'll be back on the right track in my opinion.
So a quarter through the day your already set? Even though you don't think both cases are "watertight". So you're willing to allow town to have what you think is a non-watertight lynch, with 30 hours left in the day? Are you kidding me? You can discuss other things, while giving your opinion on VE and Toad. What if we lynch one and they flip town? Then no-one talked about anything else all day and we get shit all of information cause we didn't discuss anything else.
TLDR; Town needs active discussion not tunnelled discussion, espeically with so many hours left in the day.
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When I say in my opinion, it doesn't mean I am set with no more room for discussion. It means, based on the current set of data, I think that a lynch of VE would be the strongest move, and would be the one most likely to lead to put up back on the right track. It is just an issue of miss-communication on that note.
What do you think we should be discussing other than VE v Toad?
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On April 12 2012 01:24 Mementoss wrote:
@Tunkeg You need to read everything or at least skim if you are so slow at reading, if you stop reading people you "think" are town you will never be convinced otherwise god dammit. Your brain seems to have a switch. Sometimes it uses logic, sometimes it doesn't.
I am ignoring you for the rest of the game
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On April 12 2012 00:25 VisceraEyes wrote:The Toadesstern Case Phase 2 - Malicious Mudlinging and the Fecal Thread - In which we see how the posts Toad started making an "effort" are really only designed to throw the thread into disarray and make reading it a chore.
My first case falls into this category and can be found here. To add to it, Toad has said that no one thought he was scum D1 and is actually using that in his case against me....but Katina clearly thought he was scum (hence the vote and subsequent D2 vote). Also gonzaw thought he was scum. Also I thought he was scum. But none of us thought he was scum. *shrug*
The following posts were made all in response to Gonzaw. At the time, Gonzaw was one of a few people who were after Toad because he hadn't been properly contributing to the hunt for scum. Let's take a look. Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 07:30 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 06:58 gonzaw wrote:
Regarding other lynch "candidates":
FourFace:
I still don't get what he's trying to do; but I don't see how his actions make him scum. He acted like this in previous games; I'd prefer if he's ignored, or at least the discussion is not about him. Saying he's "creating chaos" is only right if people start arguing about/with him and let the thread be clogged up with pointless "Oh 4face is anti-town oh oh" stuff.
Tunkeg:
His "win/loss ratio" list didn't do any good; but it's not an alignment tell.
I find his tone and posting style weird, like saying things like "Phone home, goddammed alien" and shit. That's certainly NOT the way he played when we played together; and apart from discussing his list/random lynch, and discrediting BH I haven't seen him contribute that much.
I don't know what to think about his behaviour (seems trollish, but again that doesn't determine his alignment); but I wouldn't be against killing him if he doesn't step up his game like I know he can do.
Wherebugsgo:
I dunno why, but I don't think he's scum because I think he would play better if he was scum; and I know some people think he plays "bad" as town.
Apart from some trolling of him, I don't find him scummy, and wouldn't want him lynched today.
Sputnik:
He's very aggressive, and so far he hasn't done anything scummy IMO.
Waiting for more contributions from him.
About Risen vs ET and other stuff:
The Risen vs ET thing has been fully covered I think.
2 players clogging the thread and going against each other because of some petty stuff. Nothing suspicious here, it actually makes me think both are town because of that.
I think Risen and ET are town for other reasons too (small ones actually), but if it doesn't help mentioning them I won't.
Although it was stupid for Risen to do so, but I can see where he's coming from (making "playful" posts, full of smileys, etc); but his execution was very bad.
I would like leaving him alone for now.
If you have any questions to me ask away. I chose not to comment on ALL interactions this game or ask questions to everybody since that didn't do very good last time I did it.
@sloosh: I'd like more contributions from you, you say that we shouldn't spend time arguing about the spreadshit, but you don't do anything yourself.
I wouldn't be against lynching Toad though; will post more about him after people comment on Janaan.
I'd like to hear what wbg got to say about the wbg part :p The most important part of this post is, unbelievably, it's length. Look at the post Toad quoted. Look at the sheer enormity of it. Look at the content contained within the quoted confines. It's huge guy. Now look at Toad's response. "I'd like to hear what wbg got to say about the wbg part :p" Really Toad? You quoted that monster only to make a throwaway comment about bugs? Someone who is on your scum-radar right now for the "stupid shit" he's doing? What about the rest of the post? There's a bunch of content in there that you're not even addressing. Why? What was the point? This quote ALONE takes up like a quarter of 1 page man, what the eff? It serves no purpose but to shit up the thread guys, and it doesn't stop there. It does sever a purpose. Figuring out wbg. I know wbg disagrees with what was said about wbg and wanted to know if he talks about it. He did not, making it more likely for wbg to be town. WBG is really manipulative as mafia, he would have quoted that part and explained why it's wrong to gain towncred and look more townish because surely people would think no mafia will say that a townread on you is wrong, would he?
So yes. Inspite of you not noticing what I am doing, it actually does have a purpose. Yet you keep on saying you're the mighty VE who is so awesome at mafia. How is it that someone that awesome doesn't even understand the most simple of questions? Right, because you are not asking yourself questions to try and figure stuff out.Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 08:08 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 07:51 gonzaw wrote:About Toad:Here's what I think of him: On April 08 2012 19:35 Toadesstern wrote:Sup guyses, here I am. Anything important going on other than noobs bashing each other? I'm referring to that Risen vs ET conversation I just read and I don't know what to make of Risen yet. I have no idea what Risen is trying to achieve as he clearly is stretching when talking about / with ET imo. However I really liked this post he did: On April 08 2012 15:14 Risen wrote:On April 08 2012 14:46 Katina wrote:
EchelonTee, I have made the observation that your posting is different from jubjub. I don't remember you swearing or USING CAPS TO EMPHASIZE A POINT. Last game you were active but very laid back and you turned out to be Mafia. That scratches out one person I have to worry about being mafia. The fuck? How does that make him instantly town? The only way you could make the judgement this early is if you KNEW he wasn't town. As in, hi scumI'm off to bed at this point. Hopefully the euros will get in this thread and keep it active. I mean, I don't like the post itself but the message itself is okayish. What Katina said is wrong and if that's not some kind of joke it's definitively weird and has to be pointed out. So I'd really like to have less of those "yo dude, I didn't accuse you in the first place - sure you did - no I didn't - WHAT?!?!" posts as they're pretty useless (useless like wbg's vote) and more of those "that's stupid, stop it" posts (as long as they've got at least a little tiny bit of an explanation so everyone can understand what's going on in your head) and if someone keeps doing stupid things although we told him to stop it we lynch him the next day. Pretty easy. And yeah, you know I agree with VE when he said shooting/lynching lurkers is a nice thing to do. I agree that I don't like to lynch them early on because that gives so little information and it's really easy for mafia to just hop on lurker-wagons which essentially would give us 0 information. Of course that only works if we actually have vigs, so if there's no dead lurkers by the end of day 2 or day3 we might have to overthink that one. Someone else here right now? I just woke up an hour ago or so and I don't like pretending to talk to someone when I really am not. If there is someone else around here: Remember how I said I'd like to shoot VE pregame if I end up being a vig? Right now I'd shoot wbg instead if I had a gun, thoughts anyone? I found this a bad first post (although not as bad as Janaan's). His whole post is based on a "good post" Risen made (which isn't actually that good at all I think), and dwelling on that; and then just talking fluff (IMO) about the whole Risen vs ET thing. Then talking about lurkers, which is mostly fluff again. What I find about most of his posts, is that he talks A LOT about irrelevant stuff, and drags it way too much. He posts some fluff, and instead of being clear about his reads and intentions he spends paragraphs discussing some things which again, are irrelevant, or he spends a lot of time discussing things he could have said with just 1 sentence. For instance this post: On April 09 2012 01:20 Toadesstern wrote:On April 08 2012 23:59 slOosh wrote:On April 08 2012 19:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Pretty easy. And yeah, you know I agree with VE when he said shooting/lynching lurkers is a nice thing to do. I agree that I don't like to lynch them early on because that gives so little information and it's really easy for mafia to just hop on lurker-wagons which essentially would give us 0 information. Of course that only works if we actually have vigs, so if there's no dead lurkers by the end of day 2 or day3 we might have to overthink that one.
So what is your conclusion on the matter of lurkers? Lynch them or no? On April 08 2012 21:18 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd actually say Risen and WBG are the only ones being suspicious for me right now. I don't think ET is that weird.
However I liked the one post from Risen I quoted so that's given me a little townread.
Right now it really feels like what I thought about VE in storm. I had a bunch of things that made me think he's town, I had a bunch of things that made me think he's mafia and I didn't know what to make of that and he ended up being 3rd party but of course this is only day1 based on a couple hours of our game :p
To you WBG is suspicious but Kenpachi isn't? What exactly makes WBG suspicious? 1) Lynch them if we need to. I'd rather see them shot and have our lynches on people were we force people to take a stance as it's quite easy for mafia to be on a lurker-lynch and argue that that's just normal as everyibe did that as well and there's very little reasoning involved other than "the guy is a lurker". However telling people you think X is scummy, Y is scummy and Z is scummy because of *insert analysis here* and seeing all 3 flipping town is a little worrying unless you're a retarded compulsive vig like SOME PEOPLE tend to be. So that's why I'd like to have real lynches and keep the lurkers for our vig/vigs if we got some unless we don't have a legit real lynch candidate around. In that case lynching a lurker is fine as a safe option imo. 2) Funny you mentioned Kenpachi. He's the guy I'd like to shoot if I had to shoot someone other than wbg right now. But that's not because he's suspicious but because he's Kenpachi. I totally hate that "style" and he will be a controversial topic at some point in this game imo. I doubt he's going to be helpful at all all game long and he's probably going to lurk all the time while sometimes posting a couple of oneliners that have nothing to do with the thread but may or may not benefit his own ability to judge people based on reactions. That's how I feel about Kenpachi and long story short = he's a null for me and I doubt he's going to go highly either the one or the other way in reads so if I had to shoot it'd be a coinflip option which is bad but really a secure shot because it's not like shooting Kenpachi is going to harm the game like shooting a Vet would if that guy turns out to be a townie. Also I find a kind of "neutral" tone in his posts. Like he doesn't care that much (but take this with a grain of salt). Also, what Katina says is kind of true, he lacks some "focus". He does start saying Risen is suspicious, and then WBG and Kenpachi are (although he then says Ken is null, well whatever). But then he goes off topic with the previous stuff I mentioned, then spends paragraphs and paragraphs discussing how he "tries to appear town". And he solely focuses on discrediting Kenpachi and FoSing WBG, and I don't find his reasons compelling, nor clear enough. I'd want him or Janaan lynched instead of the other candidates today. So people, I ask you again: What do you think about Toad and what I mentioned in this post?
About Janaan:His first post was very bad, and it is sufficient for a Day 1 lynch on him IMO. Yes, I want him pressured, and I want other people's thoughts on him and if they agree on lynching him based on his 1st post, and lack of participation considering the enthusiastic tone of his post. Mostly, I want him lynched; but again I'd prefer to reap the benefits from this pressure on him as well (i.e opinions from other people, how Janaan handles the pressure, etc). Ok so you never played with me I guess? Newsflash: I do everything you said as town ever since my 2nd game of mafia, also known as the "hyshes-disaster" Seriously, all you've got on me is me making these wall of texts and while I can understand some people don't like that it's what I do and I if you've got nothing except for that it's just the worst case ever... You're taking a meta argument and you're saying "here's what toad does every single game, he does it this game as well, therefore he has to be mafia" which is just awful. I mean please go ahead and just look realy short at my filter in other games I play town. My most recent games as town are L, AC and Storm if I'm not forgetting something. You will see very soon that I'm doing that kidn of thing all the time by just opening a single filter of my previously played games. Could you explain what you're referring to when talking about a neutral tone because I don't see that? And he solely focuses on discrediting Kenpachi and FoSing WBG, and I don't find his reasons compelling, nor clear enough. Do you want me to focus on more different people? That's kind of weird? So do you find my lack of focus (which I can't see) weird or do you find me focusing on things weird? What is it? Oh and I never said Kenpachi is suspicious (I think?), I said he's not trying to show people if he's town or not and that I don't like him because I doubt that he's going to change that attitude making him a nice vig hit imo. Again, huge post, but responds hugely. What does he say? Well to the meta argument he says "It's what I do" and to the content from this game he doesn't even respond to gonzaw's question at all. The problem gonzaw had (and he made it clear) was that he didn't think the reasoning Toad provided for being suspicious of Bugs and Kenpachi was sufficient, or even clear. Toad's response? "What do you want me to do? You say you want me focused but you don't want me focused...which is it?"............completely ignoring the issue at hand, his unclear reasoning for being suspicious of Bugs and Kenpachi. Oh, he also admits, again, that he doesn't find Kenapchi suspicious but wants him dead. Don't wanna call that lurking townie suspicious, nooooooo. Why do you keep on talking about Kenpachi ALL the time? I made it pretty clear I hate kenpachi and therefore I'd like to want him dead. Do I have to say it's a policy thing yet another time or are you still ignoring that?
Yes the reason I provided for thinking kenpachi was sufficient BECAUSE IT'S A POLICY THING.
I already explained wbg like 10 times but okay here we go again: I am trying to figure out wbg. Therefore I point out stuff about him and ask him why he did that. I want to hear explanations. What's so hard to understand about that? OH right, it's the fact that you don't try to understand people because you already know their alignment and therefore don't have to figure them out. Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 08:51 Toadesstern wrote:On April 09 2012 08:33 gonzaw wrote:Toad: No, I'm reading Arkham City and I find your style different from here. You are way too verbose this game. In AC, you didn't seem to make big "fluffy" posts, and when you spoke you were concise about your thoughts (even if you had many of them and wrote paragraphs about them). Also, AC was a game with special mechanics, so talking a little bit too much about them was fine. There are no strange mechanics here, so there's no reason for you to do so this game. Same as L, I see your filter there and find you make concise points, have a different attitude than here (you seem too "diplomatic" and "verbose" in this game, which is very different to your attitude in those 2 games) So no, I'm not saying "Toad is playing just like AC and L so we should lynch him"; at most I'm actually saying you are playing completely different. Now that we are talking about them here are the filters I'm talking about: AC: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=40853L: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853On April 09 2012 08:08 Toadesstern wrote:
Do you want me to focus on more different people? That's kind of weird? So do you find my lack of focus (which I can't see) weird or do you find me focusing on things weird? What is it?
That's not the "focus" I (and surely Katina) am talking about. I mean that you go and pressure Kenpachi/wbg, but then you start rambling with Katina/sloosh about lurkers and why you act like you act, etc. Then you go back to Kenpachi/wbg, but then you start rambling about why you are "trying to act like town". You just mention those players every once and then, but it gets lost in the middle of your posts. It's like your reads take a backseat to the other stuff you are discussing. It seems that your FoS on Ken/wbg/Risen goes unnoticed, it's like you don't really care about it. I don't see you actively voting them, pressuring them, asking other people about them, etc. Again, not mentioning I don't find your reads and reasons for them compelling enough. Could you explain what you're referring to when talking about a neutral tone because I don't see that? It relates to that "lack of focus" thing I said earlier and how it seems you don't "care that much" about the game. I want other people's thoughts on this first though. I'm answering the 2nd part first because that's really easy and short: Take a look at the timestamps. I did my first post when I woke up. That was something like 11am german time because I wasn't awake earlier. From that point on I keep talking about my thoughts & reads, also about WBG (Kenpachi really is more like a sidenote, I just happened to actually play a couple of games with him) because I thought his vote was stupid beyond belief. That's why I wanted to know why. Now remember the timestamp. WBG is from the US, I am from germany. Want me to go on post about WBG while he's clearly not here? There was no point in focussing more about wbg when I wanted him to answer my question and he wasn't there so naturally I'm ignoring it for the next couple of hours until he actually gets in here. Sounds pretty simple, doesn't it? On your 1st point: I don't think I am. Yes I was very much more "in your face" in both L and AC but both are games I played with a pretty confident mindset based on the games before those. In Storm for example I changed that completly and people said the exact same thing about me being very diplomatic because I took a hard beating in AC and didn't want to ruin another game. I mean it's day1 after all. Maybe I'm more fluffy on day? Also consider that both AC, Storm and L were MASSIVLY staked with vets so I didn't think I had to be as active as usual (just imagine what would have happened if I tried to be active those games :p ). This game however is different as we've got way more new people and I feel obligated to explain my thoughts a little more first to establish a town atmosphere in which people actually explain their thoughts (although according to you I'm overdoing tat) and secondly to not get another "hyshes-disaster". However I don't think I am diplomatic. If I'd try to be diplomatic I'd dish out a couple of town reads as they're easy to do and not talk about what I think is suspicious. More arguing with Gonzaw, more dancing around the issue. He AGAIN sidesteps what he ACTUALLY finds suspicious about Bugs. Again. This time Gonzaw was even more specific and talked about Toad's rambling at Katina and slOosh...but Toad is like, as wordy and as meaningless as ever with his post. There are some other things I found interesting in this post too. Again, there's nothing to be told here. WBGs vote was horribly bad. That the reason I wanted to understand why I did that because he clearly knew it was bad. That's the reason I said wbg is suspicious and I NEVER talked about something else about wbg1) He uses the words "very much more in your face" to describe his play in AC and L, citing a more confident mindset...but then later uses the words "didn't think I had to be as active as usual" to describe his play in AC and L. He's just making up shit as he types man! Read the underlined statements and see if you can reconcile them. I couldn't. 2) Read the bolded statement. Then read the italicized statement inside of it. Then read the name. Then read the italicized statement. Then read the bolded statement. Then read the name. Then look at the top of this post and look at the color of the name there. Then read the italicized statement again. WE HAVE A REAL LIVE SCUMSLIP!!!In what WAY is "dishing out town reads" easy as a townie? I don't know anyone's alignment, does Toad? What is he even talking about? He's talking about how easy it is to dish out town reads because he forgot for a second that he's scum and knows everyone's alignment!Fucking unreal. Wat? "IF i were mafia I'd dish out townreads because they're easy". That reads as "IF I were mafia I'd (only only in that scenario) be talking about townreads a lot because they're easy to do". As in "as mafia I have information about townies, therefore if I really am mafia you'd see me talking about townreads nonstop.
I don't see what your point is.
I am basicly saying "If I am X then I would do Y because as X I'd have more information, therefore Z is easier".
I am explaining what he'd would see if I actually were mafia and yes, as mafia townreads are easy.
These next few quotes are from his back and forth with ghost_403...someone he I'm sure still attests to think is scum, yet never pushes and never comes back to after the day post. Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:11 Toadesstern wrote:On April 10 2012 00:00 ghost_403 wrote:Tunkeg has been the standout scummy player to me in this thread thus far. His not-so-random lynch is a terrible idea on so many levels, making him either scum or an idiot. Ironically, by his own logic, this makes him an ideal lynch. This managed to derail the thread for quite some time, which really stops the town from functioning efficiently, especially in such a big game. In addition, his posts on this page, including such gems as On April 09 2012 22:04 Tunkeg wrote:
In the land of the fools the king is better of dead... is basically him giving up. I vote we bandwagon the hell out of him and lynch him today.##vote TunkegAlso, looks like michaelthe and janaan both rolled scum. So sad. That's an interesting choice of words. "I vote we bandwagon the hell out of him". Is it just me feeling that that way or is the word bandwagon a pretty negative one? I always picture it as something like an avalanche when people say stuff like "that's the worst bandwagon ever" because if you talk about a good lynch you use the word lynch and not bandwagon, don't you? Imo that word is implying that a negative outcome is pretty likely because of that meaning. It's like already implying that a tunkeg-lynch would be a townie lynch. Am I the only one reading that phrase so negatively because in my book "bandwagon" is a really strong, negative word? Here we see Toad's "scumdar" pinged when ghost_403 uses the word "bandwagon". Stop laughing I'm serious. He considers it a "negative" word. Cool. Neat. But the "negative" connotation that he's referring to corresponds to people on a lynch candidate with no reason, not a word to describe the outcome of a lynch. So it's not at all implying what Toad says it implies. At all. This is baseless mudslinging of a lurker over semantic use of a word. Scumhunting Supreme. Nah I am using the word that way. I made it pretty clear that I think bandwagon is negative itself and not only the guys on the bandwagon. Therefore I asked people if they think that way as well because it's not one of my usualy vocabulary I am using in german all day long.
So if you're telling me that I'm using the word wrong. Fine. That's the reason I asked in the first place, to get some other people commenting on wether or not I am right with that one.Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:22 Toadesstern wrote:On April 10 2012 00:20 ghost_403 wrote:
Toadstern, you're on my naughty list too. I was giving you the opportunity to jump on board and at least look a bit townie. Bit too late now. so you're ignoring what I just said and respond with an OMGUS because I am apparently on your "naughty list" and because of what I just said I am looking worse to you, or what are you referring to with "bit too late now" ? Anyways, sounds incredible solid. Discredit by dismissal. Classic scum move. FINALLY you're agreeing with me at one point... oh wait, you were talking about my post?Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:On April 10 2012 00:28 ghost_403 wrote:
@Toad: And your post wasn't? Instead of taking sides in the "lynch Tunkeg" discussion, you pointed out how a phrase that I used in my post had a negative connotation. The language that I use to communicate my ideas should be completely irrelevant compared to the ideas themselves. I want to lynch Tunkeg because I think he's scummy, and I want other people to help me do that. Discuss. the point is that I think I found a mafia who needs to dump his vote somewhere, he figured Tunkeg is a nice option and therefore said we should bandwagon him, subconsciously leaking that you actually think/know Tunkeg is a townie. That's what I'm reading in your one phrase and that's why I want other people to tell me if that observation is correct or if I'm the only one using the word "bandwagon" in that fashion. Yes I consider that kind of thing to be pretty important. Not to begin with the idea itself being incredible stupid. If you're not a 100% sure on Tunkeg (or at least pretty sure) you're possibly giving Mafia the best option for a cop-out ever if he ends up flipping green because you're teling people "let's bandwagon this guy". Yes, I don't think we should be lynching Tunkeg today mostly because what he did is what I like to do as well although I usually only do it if I got some prove that I actually did that on purpose (read L, the masonpart with SS) or if I'm incredible pissed and don't care anymore. While I don't like that move at all because there's no reason to be pissed that early (before he did that move, I could understand him being pissed right now) and apparently there is no mason log proving that he actually did that on purpose to fish for reactions and reasons behind peoples accusations, I can see people do that kind of thing as a townie simply because I tend to do it from time to time as well. That being sad I'll put my vote on you Sir ##vote ghost_403 Wait wwwaiit...So we've got WBG, Kenpachi (but not Kenpachi), Risen, Hassybaby all as suspicious players........and you vote for ghost_403. Kay....sooooooo.... No, We had Hassybaby and Ghost as suspicious players. Therefore I voted ghost. Stop talking about Kenpachi when I made it very clear that that's only a policy thing because I hate him (and therefore isn't backed up AT ALL) and WBG who I once poked to understand what's going on in WBG-land. I made it very clear that I was okay with WBG ever since his answer for that moment. I still had my problems but I never called him suspicious based on those things because I wanted to read more from wbg.
Phase 2 Sumarry: Toadesstern, when pressed to contribute, is mostly interested in defending himself against people who don't really think he's scum. He's also interested in shitting up the thread with a ton of HUGE quotes, knowing full well it shits up the thread (he's making a conscious effort not to do it, remember) and votes for ghost_403, not any of his other scum-reads that he's accumulated in his vast amounts of scumhunting that he failed to do, on the basis of using the word "bandwagon" instead of "lynch" or something equally ridiculous. I'll rephrase it so it makes sense: Toadesstern, when pressed to defend himself, is mostly interested in definding himself against people who later on turn out to not actually think he is mafia (how could I have know by that time katina is going to do a nosedive ever after his accusations on me?). He only votes ghost_403, one of his two (!) scumreads at the end of d1.Toadesstern has GOT to die. We can only do it together because he's got some friends.
You're welcome.
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On April 12 2012 01:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
I SWEAR TO CHRIST IF YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES MAKE ME CLAIM
On April 12 2012 01:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ugh, nothing...Tunkeg's penchant for being obtuse cause a short bout of despair.
Town is going to see through this. I can make you see.
Are you fucking kidding me? Either make your claim now or never. At all comming out and saying this is just as good as claiming. So either you claim or you fuck off. I think this is another of your magic tricks. But you aren't going to make the lynch on you dissapear this easy.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://postimage.org/image/cm209lf3h/)
