EPT[D] PvZ Beating Stephano Style Roaches - Page 49
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Please have some semblance of an idea of what you're talking about. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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aznkukuboi
120 Posts
I noticed that Mana opens with FFE into 1 void + 3 phoenix harass. Then he grabbed a third into a standard deathball. His harassed worked so well that Sheth was hesitant to produce roaches in favor of infestors instead of Stephano style. Mana's end game composition was mothership, collosus, sentry, stalker, and few HT's for feedback. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
standard 14/16 3rd hatch at 21ish ~16 lings at 7:30 for safety 5-8 safety roaches shortly after made 4 spores to simulate sg w/e 10:00 - 8 roaches 30 speed lings are at P 3rd base +1 range finishes at 10:50 11:00 - 8 speed roaches 7 range hydras 60 speed lings at p 3rd base 12:00 - 8 speed roaches 19 range hydra 106 speed lings 12:30 maxed. 8 speed roaches 28 range hydra 124 speed lings (4 of the hydras and 12 of the lings haven't quite hatched, though. what to do O_O edit: 2 gases standard timing then 2nd 2 are taken at about 60 food. 58 drones in this run | ||
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CCalms
United States341 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote: while this isn't pure roach i played hyun and he did a roach/ling hydra thing.. replicated it vs ai and here's what happens: standard 14/16 3rd hatch at 21ish ~16 lings at 7:30 for safety 5-8 safety roaches shortly after made 4 spores to simulate sg w/e 10:00 - 8 roaches 30 speed lings are at P 3rd base +1 range finishes at 10:50 11:00 - 8 speed roaches 7 range hydras 60 speed lings at p 3rd base 12:00 - 8 speed roaches 19 range hydra 106 speed lings 12:30 maxed. 8 speed roaches 28 range hydra 124 speed lings (4 of the hydras and 12 of the lings haven't quite hatched, though. what to do O_O edit: 2 gases standard timing then 2nd 2 are taken at about 60 food. 58 drones in this run He did the same thing to me on shakuras and I fell to it, but I can't see that doing anything to someone with good forcefields on any other map. The reason shakuras is so hard is because the ramp up to your natural is not coverable at all and the threat of them running up it forces your army to be in awful positions. I imagine that build on antiga and I can't see it doing any damage at all unless you really delayed your colossus. I'd rather see this instead of roaches any day. | ||
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Tyrek
12 Posts
I'm not sure how you'd expect to have colossi out in time to deal with this. Either way, this seems like a more highly optimized build - if he notices your sprint to colossi as a reaction to seeing initial hydras, it opens up a reasonably large timing window in which a return to roachspam would likely crush. | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
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Pneumonia457
United States1 Post
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Treehead
999 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:29 Tyrek wrote: The problem would be the ability to differentate between the two builds - roachspam and this hydraling thing. It looks like he's dropping his hydra den at around 9 minutes, which gives you plenty of time to scout it before he gets anywhere close to maxxed. | ||
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SC2ShoWTimE
Germany722 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:52 Pneumonia457 wrote: you know for some reason protosses have stopped going chargelot archon. and from what the current metagame is right now it could really wreck zergs build order with a large quick push with attack upgrades. vs roaches? -_- when a zerg goes for ling/infestor then it is very very good but how often do we see a zerg go for such a composition? basically never. | ||
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Harstem
Netherlands261 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote: while this isn't pure roach i played hyun and he did a roach/ling hydra thing.. replicated it vs ai and here's what happens: standard 14/16 3rd hatch at 21ish ~16 lings at 7:30 for safety 5-8 safety roaches shortly after made 4 spores to simulate sg w/e 10:00 - 8 roaches 30 speed lings are at P 3rd base +1 range finishes at 10:50 11:00 - 8 speed roaches 7 range hydras 60 speed lings at p 3rd base 12:00 - 8 speed roaches 19 range hydra 106 speed lings 12:30 maxed. 8 speed roaches 28 range hydra 124 speed lings (4 of the hydras and 12 of the lings haven't quite hatched, though. what to do O_O edit: 2 gases standard timing then 2nd 2 are taken at about 60 food. 58 drones in this run Yeah I also played hyun and he did the same thing. Was on antiga, he broke down the rocks and attacked my from all 3paths. This seems pretty much impossible to stop. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Z is straight up stronger in midgame, and with so few (any?) builds that can consistently hold a third against roach spam, it's inevitable that Z will come up with some curveballs that wreck the limited options that roach spam leaves open. In related news, I think it's time for me to pick up some new games. All-in roulette in PvZ and PvP makes for a boring SC2. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:01 kcdc wrote: In related news, I think it's time for me to pick up some new games. All-in roulette in PvZ and PvP makes for a boring SC2. Don't give up, kcdc! | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:01 kcdc wrote: In related news, I think it's time for me to pick up some new games. All-in roulette in PvZ and PvP makes for a boring SC2. I was reading the strategy forums as a hope to get back into SC2 when my dota friends aren't online but this post kind of killed it. I was a zerg player (masters through s3 and then quit playing) and wanted to comeback as P. Guess I'll just sit tight.  | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:18 crms wrote: I was reading the strategy forums as a hope to get back into SC2 when my dota friends aren't online but this post kind of killed it. I was a zerg player (masters through s3 and then quit playing) and wanted to comeback as P. Guess I'll just sit tight. why would that kill your hope | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
If a well respected player is talking about PvZ/P being coinflippy allin mode it doesn't sound like a game I want to invest time into learning again. Perhaps I was being a bit dramatic but it definitely took some wind out of my sails. I don't personally think SC2 is a -great- game but it's -THE- game for competitive RTS (really competitive anything on PC) so every now and again I try and trick myself into playing again. I think we mostly play SC2 because we 1) lack options, 2) it's 'starcraft' not because it's a great game. edit; im going to stop responding in this thread about this topic. I've already derailed it enough and mucked it up. I apologize. I'll enjoy taking any discussion to PM if anyone feels! <3 | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:01 kcdc wrote: I'm coming around to the conclusion that all-in roulette is a stronger way to play the MU. Z is straight up stronger in midgame, and with so few (any?) builds that can consistently hold a third against roach spam, it's inevitable that Z will come up with some curveballs that wreck the limited options that roach spam leaves open. In related news, I think it's time for me to pick up some new games. All-in roulette in PvZ and PvP makes for a boring SC2. Didnt expect this attitude from you. Most maps the third can be held just fine for example with the quick robo after FFE, if you're comfortable against muta's it seems a decent style. It's also mostly just a map thing, some of the maps that show up in PvZ often (shakuras, korhal even cloud kingdom) are slightly difficult vs this, in the new season you can probably get a much better map pool for yourself. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote: while this isn't pure roach i played hyun and he did a roach/ling hydra thing.. replicated it vs ai and here's what happens: standard 14/16 3rd hatch at 21ish ~16 lings at 7:30 for safety 5-8 safety roaches shortly after made 4 spores to simulate sg w/e 10:00 - 8 roaches 30 speed lings are at P 3rd base +1 range finishes at 10:50 11:00 - 8 speed roaches 7 range hydras 60 speed lings at p 3rd base 12:00 - 8 speed roaches 19 range hydra 106 speed lings 12:30 maxed. 8 speed roaches 28 range hydra 124 speed lings (4 of the hydras and 12 of the lings haven't quite hatched, though. what to do O_O edit: 2 gases standard timing then 2nd 2 are taken at about 60 food. 58 drones in this run 12:30 with hydra/roach/ling and even 4 spores is quite fast, makes you wonder what a perfectly executed pure roach maxout could be if done perfectly. 10:20? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:39 Markwerf wrote: 12:30 with hydra/roach/ling and even 4 spores is quite fast, makes you wonder what a perfectly executed pure roach maxout could be if done perfectly. 10:20? only one way to find out! | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:39 Markwerf wrote: 12:30 with hydra/roach/ling and even 4 spores is quite fast, makes you wonder what a perfectly executed pure roach maxout could be if done perfectly. 10:20? I can't recall ever maxing out with Roaches before 11 Minutes...but I'm going to try right now! | ||
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