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On March 11 2012 00:10 Hawk wrote:
No that trade is awful hahahah
That is a huge gamble. Even if he turns out to be pretty good, they've very much torpedoed their chances of getting immediate help from a good young player unless they strike gold in the next two drafts that follow. At worst, RG3 is terrible and they don't have the means to draft someone who has franchise potential early on.
I don't think I need to start talking about the Skins and their recent 'success' in free agency
Personally, I am intrigued by RG3 and think he can be decent if placed in a good system. The kid put up solid numbers even when he played oklahoma, texas etc. I just really doubt that is anything the Skins have atm.
Can't take you seriously man. Just the same old media crap.
Shanahan has a good history of finding good players for his system in mid-rounds (RBs, WRs e.g.Brandon Marshall 4th, etc.) and ZBS Oline players are typically found in 3-6th rounds.
If you grab a franchise QB you're going to at least stick with him for 3-4 years to see if he develops anyway, so even if he's a bust or mediocre I don't see why this is any different than using the 1sts we would've had to draft another QB which we wouldn't do in those next couple years anyway.
Our "success" in free agency is actually fairly good since Bruce Allen became GM. Bowen, Cofield, Wilson, Licht, have all been fairly solid starters. Chester is debatable.. not good but not horrible. Trades (carriker, hightower, mcnabb, brown) have been the mixed bag though -- we shall see how this one pans out in the end.
Sorry but the days of Haynesworth, Sanders, Stubblefield, etc are over. THANK GOODNESS CERRATO IS GONE.
On March 11 2012 02:07 Curu wrote:
The thing is all those 1st rounders are likely to be top 10 picks. Even with Cam Newton having one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history, the Panthers still ended up picking in the top 10; if RG3 performs at the absolute highest level, the Redskins will still likely end up picking in the top 10. The Panthers's are arguably better all around than the Redskins too.
The Redskins gave up by far the most anyone has ever given up for a draft pick and they didn't even get to pick the QB of their choice. They only get whichever one Indianapolis passes on...
It was a great, great trade for St. Louis who gained a boatload of high picks and lost basically nothing from their standpoint.
Unlikely all the 1sts will be top 10. I do concede we do have a particular tough schedule next year but things change year to year in the NFL.
Our D was ranked 13th and we gave up 4 less PPG than the panthers (their defense is really really bad...) and that's WITH grossman turning the ball over > 2x per game -- 13 games with 20 INTs and 8 fumbles. So our defense, all things considered is decent and will get better after the TOs are reduced.
Offensively a good QB can mask for Oline play, and make mediocre/good receivers look a lot better. For example, see Indy last year.
Considering the alternatives in Manning who likely is not coming here, Flynn who will get a huge contract and who is questionable IMO, then you got Orton...? Draft you have Luck/RG3 then a bunch of projects like Tannehill, Foles, Weedon, etc.
I think overall considering the situation it was a good idea for our team though it still is a huge gamble. Absolutely not as horrible as you guys are making it out to be. The Rams obviously did magnificently. How RG3 pans out (or Luck if Indy decides to take RG3) will be judged in the next 3 years. Trades are not zero sum -- you can have win/win situations.
And hell, I'd take this price for the potential RG3 has over the Cutler and Palmer trades anyday.
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Anyway, here's the main thing for me regardless whatever justifications and arguments and whatnot.
Teams with franchise QBs are playoff and super bowl contenders every year without a doubt. Sure, there are teams without them that make the playoffs.... but they are not perennial contenders. Just look at the super bowl winning QBs for the last 15+ years. It's pretty rare to have such a great D to carry them to a victory.
If you can get a guy that is good enough he can help pull you out of the mediocrity. See Brees with the Saints, Matt Ryan with the Falcons, etc. I hate to be cliche but it is a QB drive league now, especially with the NFL rules protecting WRs, illegal contact, etc.
Look at all of the 10+ years drafts with players not taken as QB... lots of repeat drafters there.... and the common theme is they don't have an answer at QB. And that is WITH taking tons of talent on OL, DL, WR, RB, etc.
If you think there's a guy who can become that you gotta roll the dice. Otherwise, you're still stuck in mediocrity regardless of what you do with those draft picks.
Alright I'm off to the wild blue yonder... need to eliminate message boards for a while. Lotta work to do. 
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I mean people pretty much universally damned the Falcons trade last year. Difference was both those first round picks (and all the other picks too) were in the late 20s. The Redskins gave up 3 first rounders that all have very good chances of ending in the top half of the round.
Getting a franchise QB is much more important than getting a star WR, that's undeniable. But the price the Redskins paid for RG3 is something along the lines of what Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Matthew Stafford would command (the elite 4 are pretty much untouchable regardless of what's offered). Can RG3 be as good as those guys? Certainly but it's far from a sure thing. If he does pan out as good as those guys it's certainly worth it.
The thing that bugs me the most about the trade is that despite all the Redskins gave up they don't even get to without a doubt pick the guy they want. What if they think RG3 is the best prospect in the draft and the guy they want but then the Colts throw a curveball and pick him? By all accounts the margin between Luck and RG3 is paper-thin with a slight advantage to Luck but when you're giving up 3 first rounders shouldn't you expect to be able to choose the one you want?
The thing with Brees is that they got him for free. They didn't have to sacrifice any of their team or picks to do it so they could surround him with a great Line, great WRs, etc. Ditto with Matt Ryan; just look at how much the Falcons spent to put the pieces around him (and consider that before getting him they already had a Pro Bowl RB in Michael Turner, Pro Bowl WR in Roddy White): trading a boatload of picks for Julio Jones, a 2nd rounder for Tony Gonzalez, traded into the 1st for LT Sam Baker. But the Falcons still aren't able to get over the hump, partly because as good as Matt Ryan has been he still hasn't entered elite status and partly because one of those pieces, Sam Baker, became an absolute bust.
I don't know too much about the Redskins but I doubt their overall offense is good enough to contend for a SB even if RG3 turns into an elite QB. There are very few QBs who can carry their team to the SB regardless of offensive talent around them; Tom Brady is one, Peyton Manning another (possibly Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees but both have always had great teams around them). That's about it. Other QBs, even if they are great, need the pieces around them.
Of course if RG3 pans out that's great for the Redskins but they're still likely out of serious contention for 5+ years as they surround him with the talent he needs. And if he busts the Redskins are hugely set back, lacking both a QB and any shot at acquiring the pieces to put around one.
Even with how great Peyton was early in his career just look at how many first rounders year after year the Colts spent on surrounding him with an offense. If RG3 pans out like Peyton (absolute best case) the Redskins lack the picks to surround him with talent.
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On March 11 2012 02:53 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 00:10 Hawk wrote:
No that trade is awful hahahah
That is a huge gamble. Even if he turns out to be pretty good, they've very much torpedoed their chances of getting immediate help from a good young player unless they strike gold in the next two drafts that follow. At worst, RG3 is terrible and they don't have the means to draft someone who has franchise potential early on.
I don't think I need to start talking about the Skins and their recent 'success' in free agency
Personally, I am intrigued by RG3 and think he can be decent if placed in a good system. The kid put up solid numbers even when he played oklahoma, texas etc. I just really doubt that is anything the Skins have atm. Can't take you seriously man. Just the same old media crap. Shanahan has a good history of finding good players for his system in mid-rounds (RBs, WRs e.g.Brandon Marshall 4th, etc.) and ZBS Oline players are typically found in 3-6th rounds. If you grab a franchise QB you're going to at least stick with him for 3-4 years to see if he develops anyway, so even if he's a bust or mediocre I don't see why this is any different than using the 1sts we would've had to draft another QB which we wouldn't do in those next couple years anyway. Our "success" in free agency is actually fairly good since Bruce Allen became GM. Bowen, Cofield, Wilson, Licht, have all been fairly solid starters. Chester is debatable.. not good but not horrible. Trades (carriker, hightower, mcnabb, brown) have been the mixed bag though -- we shall see how this one pans out in the end. Sorry but the days of Haynesworth, Sanders, Stubblefield, etc are over. THANK GOODNESS CERRATO IS GONE.
hahaha, wait, why don't you refresh us about your prediction for the Skins before you go spouting off about how you can't take anyone seriously.
It's a flipped first, two additional firsts and a second for an unproven rookie. It's a huge gamble, even if it was for Luck. The fact that it's for the second best QB who is much less of a sure thing is crazy. At best, he is good but the team around him still blows and they're out of three high draft picks which tend to at least pan out to be starters for a few years. At worst, he is terrible, and not only do they need help everywhere else that they can't draft, but they need a new franchise qb.
That isn't the same media shit. It's basic common sense--crappy team with a history of overpaying for mediocre FA talent because no one wants to come to a dysfunctional franchise otherwise blows three high picks for a potential player. It's a huge gamble no matter how you cut it, and a massive overpayment
And the bit about Culter (palmer was insane, so forget that), at the very least with that, they knew what they were getting in the player: very good, but not great qb who is certainly good enough to take the team to the playoffs with halfway decent help around him (or none, as is often the case with the Bears O). No one has any clue how Luck pans out, let alone RG3
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I agree with the sentiment that Redskins overpaid. Even if RG3 turns out to be a very valuable quarterback, it's very very difficult to fill holes on your team without first round picks.
That being said, I don't think the Redskins are in that bad shape. With a pretty horrendous, turnover prone offense the Skins still had a top 15 defense. This is a defensive group with a good young nucleus of players (though I doubt Landry sticks around). While their receiving corps is pretty poor, the FA crop of wide outs is at the best it's been in years, and the Redskins finally have some cap space to work with (and a deep pocketed owner to boot). It's a foregone conclusion that one of the big name wideouts will be paid by the Skins to come help RG3. The Redskins also have a decent offensive line with some young early draft choices on it to hopefully provide stability for the future upfront.
Then, there's the Mike Shanahan factor. The guy is great at finding late round talent. He also has a reputation for developing good running backs (or RBs that succeed due to his system- semantics, I say!). After how terrible the Skins offense was last year, people forget that Tim Hightower was productive in Arizona, and started off having a decent season for the Skins before a season ending injury. With him back, it's really likely the Skins ground game (combined with RG3s abilities) will be above average- and an above average running game is the best friend of a rookie QB.
Three first rounders and the second rounder this year is a LOT to pay, but I don't think the Skins are out of their minds here. Frankly, this trade reminds me of the Marshall Faulk trade with Indianapolis. St. Louis got the better deal (they got Superman!) but Indianapolis loaded up with key guys after acquiring all those picks, drafted Edgerrin James, and it ended up being a decent swap both ways. It's true, the Skins ultimately aren't getting to pick their guy after dealing it all away, but who really loses in this rare draft class. I view this QB class like the Eli/Rivers class. Whichever of the top two you get, you're doing well for yourselves. From the Redskins perspective, it doesn't matter that they're not choosing between Luck or RG3 for themselves, because you can't really lose between either. Overpaying the Rams now assures that you get one of these two top tier prospects. Ultimately, if Matt Flynn was a better bet for an investment, he'd have been drafted in the first-sixth round by someone. Nobody already in the NFL wants to play in Washington because they know better lol, so what free agent QB is going to go there anyways? Of the available QBs, Washington has lined themselves up to snag one of the top 3 (and top 2 long term). Not so bad.
I think they overpaid, but I like the trade for the Redskins. The NFC East is so volatile as it is, it won't take the Redskins a whole lot be competitive in that division.
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51265 Posts
seriously can't believe they gave suckchez an extension.
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On March 11 2012 11:36 GTR wrote:
seriously can't believe they gave suckchez an extension.
It wasn't that surprising that he would get an extension - what is surprising is the size of the extension.
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Someone was sayign to me this somehow reduces his cap hit, but I've seen different things about that?? If so, given the fact they can cut him whenever, that is not bad really
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Well... Mark does have really nice feet...
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Seahawks and Chiefs fan wondering if Peyton is snubbing them or not now because of a Denver beat writer claiming they're both out? Heh.
6 hours in Arizona but 2 whole days of Denver too btw.
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On March 12 2012 00:32 DannyJ wrote:
Well... Mark does have really nice feet...
Ah.. ah hahahaha ah... I see what you did there 
But yeah, the jets were ridiculous with this contract. All the more reason for mark sanchez to not to any work and enjoy being coddled. And when you have literally half your team questioning this kid's work ethic, and you give him a contract extension, there's gonna be trouble in that locker room. I can easily see the jets having a losing record next year. Too bad because I think that team with rex ryan is one of the most entertaining teams in the league, especially after that hard knocks season.
I think RG3 will be good, but i don't know about the redskins. i don't think shanahan is the right guy to develop him. it'd be awful if rg3 is a bust because of this. think the browns would have been better
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I think most people expected the Jets to get rid of terriblechez and sign Flynn or maybe draft a new QB.
As a Dolphins fan I'm happy they decided to keep him.
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I feel like every five minutes I'm checking nfl.com to see if Peyton has told the Broncos his signing on or not. Man, I hope he ends Tebow-mania soon!
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On March 11 2012 03:53 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 02:53 eshlow wrote:On March 11 2012 00:10 Hawk wrote:
No that trade is awful hahahah
That is a huge gamble. Even if he turns out to be pretty good, they've very much torpedoed their chances of getting immediate help from a good young player unless they strike gold in the next two drafts that follow. At worst, RG3 is terrible and they don't have the means to draft someone who has franchise potential early on.
I don't think I need to start talking about the Skins and their recent 'success' in free agency
Personally, I am intrigued by RG3 and think he can be decent if placed in a good system. The kid put up solid numbers even when he played oklahoma, texas etc. I just really doubt that is anything the Skins have atm. Can't take you seriously man. Just the same old media crap. Shanahan has a good history of finding good players for his system in mid-rounds (RBs, WRs e.g.Brandon Marshall 4th, etc.) and ZBS Oline players are typically found in 3-6th rounds. If you grab a franchise QB you're going to at least stick with him for 3-4 years to see if he develops anyway, so even if he's a bust or mediocre I don't see why this is any different than using the 1sts we would've had to draft another QB which we wouldn't do in those next couple years anyway. Our "success" in free agency is actually fairly good since Bruce Allen became GM. Bowen, Cofield, Wilson, Licht, have all been fairly solid starters. Chester is debatable.. not good but not horrible. Trades (carriker, hightower, mcnabb, brown) have been the mixed bag though -- we shall see how this one pans out in the end. Sorry but the days of Haynesworth, Sanders, Stubblefield, etc are over. THANK GOODNESS CERRATO IS GONE. hahaha, wait, why don't you refresh us about your prediction for the Skins before you go spouting off about how you can't take anyone seriously. It's a flipped first, two additional firsts and a second for an unproven rookie. It's a huge gamble, even if it was for Luck. The fact that it's for the second best QB who is much less of a sure thing is crazy. At best, he is good but the team around him still blows and they're out of three high draft picks which tend to at least pan out to be starters for a few years. At worst, he is terrible, and not only do they need help everywhere else that they can't draft, but they need a new franchise qb. That isn't the same media shit. It's basic common sense--crappy team with a history of overpaying for mediocre FA talent because no one wants to come to a dysfunctional franchise otherwise blows three high picks for a potential player. It's a huge gamble no matter how you cut it, and a massive overpayment And the bit about Culter (palmer was insane, so forget that), at the very least with that, they knew what they were getting in the player: very good, but not great qb who is certainly good enough to take the team to the playoffs with halfway decent help around him (or none, as is often the case with the Bears O). No one has any clue how Luck pans out, let alone RG3
The Cutler trade was miles smarter. The Bears got a guy that already proved he could play in the NFL. Selling the house for a guy that could turn out to be Ryan Leaf, or Vince Young, is not a good idea. HUGE risk there, I agree 100%.
I'm hoping that when I wake up this afternoon, Peyton is a Bronco. Cross your fingers, guys! :D
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Manning turns up at Broncos day1.
"Ok so we brought you here to teach Tebow how to throw, we're starting the Messiah, hope you don't mind"
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If NFL.com is to be believed he's looking more and more likely to go to the Broncos or maybe even the Titans. I still hope the 'Phins sign him. Otherwise yet again we'll have missed the mark, meaning we'll either have to go after Flynn or stick with Moore and hope he can play as well (!) as last season.. Past that I really hope somehow some way they snag Barkley next year..
EDIT: Im referring to Manning, obviously. Edited for Clarification..
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I hope it comes out Mark Sanchez is actually an amazing quarterback, who is so good he can intentionally throw games at will while making them seem legit. He makes just massive amounts of money betting on himself, because he's also some math whiz, and has planned out a lavish life after he retires at the end of this season. But, just before the playoffs, he foolishly accepts a make-a-wish meeting with some kid named Carson, who clearly doesn't know shit about football, where little Carson begs Mark Sanchez to win him the Superbowl, because it will maybe somehow cure his inoperable brain cancer (editor's note: it won't). Mark, generally seeing himself as the superhero in the movie that is his life, smiles dashingly and agrees.
Mark has an heroic performance in the ACF Championship game, where he rallies his team multiple times after going partially snow-blind to defeat a snarling Tom Brady and sullen, withdrawn Belichick. Mark snacks on the defending Giants as a desert, putting up gaudy numbers, and tearfully screaming out "THIS IS FOR YOU, WILSON" in the post game press bazaar, forgetting that the boy's name was Carson. Belichick, in a moment of uncommon public emotion, gnashes out from the back of the press room, "I'LL HAVE MY REVENGE," and proves to be right he releases documentation proving both Sanchez's criminal behavior and rather modest genitalia.
I hope all of this happens because about 2 years ago I bet my friend $20 -- while drunk -- that we would see the words "Dirty" and "Sanchez" in a New York Times headline. I believe the above might be my best shot. The only other way I could see it happening were if I somehow became the editor of the New York Times, and that seems about as likely as, well...
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Jack McCoy rules
I have no idea why Peyton would wanna go to the Titans or Broncos. Both teams are pretty shitty. The Broncos have no offensive support there (Knowshaun ain't that hot and the wideouts are Garcon level at BEST, and really not even that good). Titans at least have CJ and Britt, if Britt doesn't work his way out of the league before then. I guess both have better than average D's but still...
I would think the Cards are the best fit. Best offense to slot into, decent enough D, and a relatively weak division outside of the Niners.
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If Peyton is fully healthy and went to the Cards, the sweet, sultry music he could play with Fitz would be a treat to behold. It would also be another hilarious foot note in the story of Kevin Kolb.
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EPT
