EPTYou and jaj22 are both not making any sense to me.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII - Page 14
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
You and jaj22 are both not making any sense to me. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 09:45 MidnightGladius wrote: You're not even going to vote for me? Hell, I had an internal debate about the bold red, but if it makes you feel any better: ##Vote MidnightGladius | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote: I love the activity though, so refreshing  So much for the activity. Neither DimmuKlok's defence nor Steveling's reads have shown up. MannerKiss produced one post with town reads and the obvious target. TKHawkins and Zelblade haven't shown up at all. MidnightGladius apparently thinks that telling people they make no sense is a valid defence. C'mon guys, you can't all be scum. I'm off to bed. Hoping that someone pulls an awesome town-leader performance overnight and gets a proper vote going, because it's going to be seriously tough to get a majority on scum at this rate. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On February 16 2012 05:59 gumshoe wrote: Leave this scared place! before your flames of spam leave it a burning hollow. Your precence here will result in a natural massacre so tragic that both town and mafia despite their differences shall find eternal commonality in death, as they are all reduced from happy newbie newbs to smoking newbie corpses! (Kidding, I have a bad relationship with hyperbole.) You can already see from here, before the game even started, the nature of his posting. You have a bad relationship with hyperbole? No shit. Your posts wreak havoc and confusion even in the /in period of the game. On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote: The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!) That's WIFOM scum in its best right there. You assume ofcourse that everyone will think exactly that and dismiss their suspicions for you. And it worked actually, only a handfull of players remain cautious towards you. Myself was joking around with it at first glance. Only after I filtered you, I begun to see it for what it's worth. Laborious scum play. On February 18 2012 06:20 gumshoe wrote: Well you'd be an idiot not to at least slightly accuse someone for such a dumb poll ) : Another obvious scum minded WIFOM. You say so yourself that it would be naive for someone not to judge you based on that poll. Yet most of us thought of it as either a joke or bad/naive town play. Have you guessed that would happen? That you would get away with that? Ofc now, I use WIFOM on my part to say that, but here comes your posting to validate me and my reasoning. On February 18 2012 01:19 gumshoe wrote: As of now i really dont get any bad vibes from him,but i didnt really expect to suspect anyone this early in the game, that said gladus first posts explain the odds distribution in the game in a refined but obvius way, his other post was ano obvius but not hostile critique of my poll( the poll was also meant to garner hostile potentialy opotunity seeking mafia responses but his response was just polite and reasonay dismissive) he has not provided ano opinion on lynching lurlers In 2 separate posts you accuse 2 different people of not questioning your poll. The reasons or the purpose you do that is irrelevant. What matters is that the only way you can do that is if you had already assumed that noone would hold you responsible for this poll. Because if they wouldn't, then you would simply be commiting suicide. There's no logical reason to do that whatsoever. So, it's clear that you used WIFOM logic in this poll. Now, although initially you fooled some of the most naive of us(like me) when some other players like Echelon and Midnight, started to doubt you, you gradually changed colors and stance. At first you feel the need to complement yourself, On February 17 2012 11:00 gumshoe wrote: Which this poll is perfect for! after taking more heat you go to (read the bolded parts) On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote: Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : next few posts it comes down to On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote: T To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature could provide the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. That said I doubt that Ech would take this huge and obvious of a risk this early on(as he did) if he was maf, we still have tons of time, if Ech backs off we shall know if he's trying to hide after taking so much heat and therefore he's probably worried about an investigation or a lynch. His only route is to keep being an aggressive poster and hopefully dig his way out of the ditch with some phoenix wright quality analysis. I also really don't like Ech's controversial move of casting doubt on a specific player for not yet posting when there are several players still lurking. I don't care if you wanted to draw him out you could've just asked for his opinion on something. to finally go to On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote: Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short. You brought up this proposal rather meekly, no authority no anger, I gotta say its a bit suspicius. My current list of people I find suspicious Steveling( too light, doesn't seem stressed at any point isn't very aggressive. Also has suggested a no lynch, terrible option for town in this game because as I said where one short. Manner kiss(could just be a disillusioned player if so hes useless to us) DimmuKlok. You say almost nothing for half a day and then show up suddenly and accuse a) the most obvious seeming runt in the litter (manner kiss) and b) the second most obvious seeming runt in the littler(me) without suggesting anything new whatsoever. The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)You also post for the first time in a while in relative tangent with Steveling who also hasn't posted in sometime... Both your posts are regarding lynching, one of you saying we should lynch lurkers another saying we shouldn't. Not so sure what i think of you but I definitely don't trust you. Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's. So as we all see, you try to tone down the polls meaning as more and more people are on to you. To top if all off you admitted that you lied! On February 18 2012 02:18 gumshoe wrote: I thought this was the liar game!( manga reference for the win!) I know it wasn't right to admit I lied, if i lie its better to just stick with it considering you didn't really have any proof that i didn't vote townie just your word, and i could just say I voted late by accident , the reason the told the truth is because I felt that I had to own up the big blunder I caused. I felt that by clearing it all up I could help us move on from this discussion. How in the name of earth am I the first to make a case against you is beyond me. You basically yelled "IM SCUM SUCKERS", while using that dubious poll to shift the blame to others and wifoming yourself out from the poll's sticky situation. Lets look now at how you approached those who accused you based on the poll. People that as you said in your own words On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote: A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. So you had every reason to push a case against the two of them. Lets see how you handled it. There were 2 of these players. MidnightGladius and Echellon. Your last response towards Midnight was On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote: Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's. Your previous one was this,(bolded) On February 18 2012 05:18 gumshoe wrote: I agree with you Gladius, on all accounts, but my problem with all your suggestions is their so easy. Need to put pressure on someone? Look to the guy who messed up at the start of the game. Should we or shouldn't we lynch? Of course we should! It'd be foolish not too. Who do we lynch? how about the guy everyone hates and has not contributed whatsoever? As suspicious as I am of manner he could very well be just a disillusioned townie who really doesn't want to play a game in which he has no power, which is mega unlikely but still possible. As chaotic as my play is yours seems almost too by the book. You almost seem like a Damon Gant just waiting to burst out in a fit of demonic fire/lightning and ferocious claps! So, after OMGUS him with that last sentence, then for no reason at all you back off of him. And all that after prophesying that those who pursue you will be mafia. Why was what? If you did plan to not pressure him at all, then why the OMGUS stance? Sense? Zero. The other guy who accused you was Echellon. This was your last dialog with him concerning the matter, On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote: I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least! Really? You apologize? How cute. You will notice how that WIFOM poll plot is activated again on this quote as well. "Don't try to accuse me cause I know that you wouldn't be so stupid to do so!" Your play is scum 100% gomshoe. You post in quantity but not in quality. You lie. You so admit it yourself. You make obvious WIFOM play. In fact your play is so weird that even in the off chance that you are a dazed towny it's still better to kill you off now. I can't imagine what messy situation you will cause in the 3rd day for example. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 11:16 Steveling wrote: I present to you, Gomshoe the Wifom Jester! You can already see from here, before the game even started, the nature of his posting. You have a bad relationship with hyperbole? No shit. Your posts wreak havoc and confusion even in the /in period of the game. That's WIFOM scum in its best right there. You assume ofcourse that everyone will think exactly that and dismiss their suspicions for you. And it worked actually, only a handfull of players remain cautious towards you. Myself was joking around with it at first glance. Only after I filtered you, I begun to see it for what it's worth. Laborious scum play. Another obvious scum minded WIFOM. You say so yourself that it would be naive for someone not to judge you based on that poll. Yet most of us thought of it as either a joke or bad/naive town play. Have you guessed that would happen? That you would get away with that? Ofc now, I use WIFOM on my part to say that, but here comes your posting to validate me and my reasoning. In 2 separate posts you accuse 2 different people of not questioning your poll. The reasons or the purpose you do that is irrelevant. What matters is that the only way you can do that is if you had already assumed that noone would hold you responsible for this poll. Because if they wouldn't, then you would simply be commiting suicide. There's no logical reason to do that whatsoever. So, it's clear that you used WIFOM logic in this poll. Now, although initially you fooled some of the most naive of us(like me) when some other players like Echelon and Midnight, started to doubt you, you gradually changed colors and stance. At first you feel the need to complement yourself, after taking more heat you go to (read the bolded parts) next few posts it comes down to to finally go to So as we all see, you try to tone down the polls meaning as more and more people are on to you. To top if all off you admitted that you lied! How in the name of earth am I the first to make a case against you is beyond me. You basically yelled "IM SCUM SUCKERS", while using that dubious poll to shift the blame to others and wifoming yourself out from the poll's sticky situation. Lets look now at how you approached those who accused you based on the poll. People that as you said in your own words So you had every reason to push a case against the two of them. Lets see how you handled it. There were 2 of these players. MidnightGladius and Echellon. Your last response towards Midnight was Your previous one was this,(bolded) So, after OMGUS him with that last sentence, then for no reason at all you back off of him. And all that after prophesying that those who pursue you will be mafia. Why was what? If you did plan to not pressure him at all, then why the OMGUS stance? Sense? Zero. The other guy who accused you was Echellon. This was your last dialog with him concerning the matter, Really? You apologize? How cute. You will notice how that WIFOM poll plot is activated again on this quote as well. "Don't try to accuse me cause I know that you wouldn't be so stupid to do so!" Your play is scum 100% gomshoe. You post in quantity but not in quality. You lie. You so admit it yourself. You make obvious WIFOM play. In fact your play is so weird that even in the off chance that you are a dazed towny it's still better to kill you off now. I can't imagine what messy situation you will cause in the 3rd day for example. Stevie your back! Ill get to you in a bit. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 09:58 MidnightGladius wrote: So you're just going to vote me for no given reason, promise to post reasoning, nudge someone else to attack me, and then leave? You and jaj22 are both not making any sense to me. Ill address you! lets take a look at your first post shall we? "It is such a pleasure to start another game: let the paranoia flow, and the productivity falter!" the first thing you say...that just seems completely unnecessary ) : "In response to DoYouHas, this is my second real game here. The earlier ones were way too large and chaotic to be of much use." your very quick to discredit your own experience, your first two posts so far involved some cute innocent encouragement for a scenario in which the mafia thrives (implying the ideal game is one where mafia have the upper hand) and your second post makes you out to seem pretty meek and inexperienced, in other words not a threat. I wont hold you too much to that second post because were all noobs here. After that you posted some speculation on how the number of roles will play a role, which was pretty obvius and not especially helpful ) : Your next four posts all start with me and then move on to address common issues. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((The vets watching us are going to have a field day with that one, gumshoe :/ As you obviously can't ascertain anyone's alignment through this poll, and the polling isn't closed only to players of this game, what exactly about the mafia were you planning on studying?)))))))))))))))))))))))) the first one you just laughed at the obvious flaw in the poll. Same as Jaj nothing to read there. You then dont post for almost two pages. Which means your present but don't see fit to participate, perhaps because your busy with something else. Next qoute! (((((((((((((((((((((((((((gumshoe's posting seems pretty odd so far. I can imagine him not knowing that non-players could still vote in his poll, but the fact that he thinks that he can compare voting patterns in an anonymous, arbitrary poll with actual vote pattern analysis, coupled with his rather silly explanation for why the poll didn't work (lurking town players trolling en masse with mafia joining the "wagon"? Really?), doesn't seem right. Even if you don't think that there's anything substantive to discuss, there's no reason to fabricate something that isn't likely to help us at all. However, I don't really get the feeling that he's scum, just new. I don't want to make the same mistake I made last game, when I was certain that questionable Day 1 play by itself meant scum. EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset If you claim that your "he's posting the scum QT" threat was a joke, then you're expecting us to let you get away with saying anything you want, as long as you say that you're not being serious. Secondly, you claim that you never accused sl00sh of being mafia, but there's no denying that he would be posting in the scum QT if and only if he were truly mafia. You're not looking too friendly at the moment, and I have to wonder what might be on your mind. You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching. )))))))))))))))))))) In this second post two page later you act suspicious of me and point out several things that are almost "too newbish to be newbish" but do not accuse me like Ech, you basically call me scum in all but name porbally because your potentially afraid of catching heat like Ech did, you then actually call ech scum in all but name as well, just like you did to me. I almost feel like Ech was on your mind when you were thinking about how to raise the suspiciun aimed at me, so you just incorporated him into your post while you were at it. You only address the two people who have taken heat knowing that their safe bets. You have contributed nothing to town whatsoever at this stage of the game. ((((((((((((((((((gumshoe, I am having a really hard time reading your intentions, because you've basically done everything that the beginner's guides warn against: lying, posting lists without much content, derailing the thread, and making unclear points. If you're going to continue doing this, it's going to make the game a huge headache for the town. I don't think that you're mafia, but please look over the guides, and try to post more productively. On the topic of lynching or not: there is no reason not to lynch Day 1. It is the most reliable way for the town to go forward, as we can then begin looking at voting patterns and doing behavioral analysis. If we don't lynch, we're in basically the same spot during Day 2, except with one fewer innocent player. As to who we lynch, I say that we put pressure on lurkers and threaten them with a lynch if they don't contribute. It establishes a basic precedent on the quality of content that we expect out of certain players, and then we can take their future posts and make some contrasts. The common argument against lynching a lurker is that mafia will only have to pretend to contribute, or stay just above the least active players. I say that that's fully acceptable, as both of those behaviors will be red flags in the days to come, especially if the town keeps up and stays consistent with activity levels. With that said, I'm going to put my vote on MannerKiss. He has done nothing for us. MannerKiss, here's your opportunity to show us that you have an interest in helping us win this game. Who is your #1 target so far?)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) This next post which happens over 12 hours later, starts off once gain with me! You accuse me of violating basic rules, you start hyping me up as an enemy of the town as either a) a reckless poster or b) mafia scum, you once again call me scum in all but name. You then make the obvious decision to be pro first day lynch, which really shouldn't be a decision considering that not lynching is a sure way to give mafia an advantage and finally you then decide to vote for Manner Kiss... the most obviously distrusted player, huh pretty big move there. ((((((((((((((((((Christ in buckets, it's FakePromise all over again :S Gumshoe's statistical analysis is misleading and flawed. I'd rather not clutter up this topic with the details, but in non-technical terms, he's making WIFOM assumptions in setting up the problem, not counting the distribution of outcomes properly, and I don't even know how what he means by [quote=gumshoe]There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly.[/quote] At this point I'm going to have to assume malicious intent. Several of us have warned him about this, and he's continuing to try and derail the discussion. He's been spamming even more than before, using really bizarre logic to defend himself, and he still has yet to provide much in the way of content. In a way, this is worse than lurking, and it's way beyond what I would expect an innocent newbie to do :/ ##Unvote: MannerKiss ##Vote: Gumshoe)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Finally we arrive at your first big move all game. Early on you were talking about how the ratio of players would affect the game, which really wasn't different from me trying to figure out how the higher quantity of mafia players to town players would affect lurker lynching. Regardless this is your big moment, you call me out as mafia elevating me above Manner Kiss, you don't address any of the other events like Sluush and ask's fight, you just keep your eyes on the prize. Even if you fully think I am mafia you can adress the problem of lurkers, or involve yourself in one of the other conversations, instead you remain tunnel visioned and focus only on me. You havent even tried contributed to town in any other way nut accusing me in this last post. In the day since your first posted about me, you have posted 4 (including that first comment) times in total and each time you began by addressing me. The hostility level of these 4 posts was like this post one. Jockingly mocks me. Post two. Says im probally a scum or a noob and is now suspicious of me but doesn't wanna make any judgements just in case Post three. Begins portraying me as a threat regardless of wether or not I'm mafia or a townie, conditioning the town to lynch me on probably day two if no greater suspect appears after manner is lynched. post four. Accuses me in a 'THIS WAS THE LAST STRAAAAW" manner. Theres an obvious progression of hostility in each of these posts that seems almost systematic. Almost as if you've been clearly building up to your accusation. After that you only posted to defend yourself against Jaj's claims. So basically, your total contributions amounts too Pointing out things I do that people before you have already pointed out. Placing suspicion on Ech Voting for manner kiss and me deciding that we should lynch period Accusing Ask and jaj two constructive players who've been active on multiple topics the whole the whole game and have taken risks to get information. Oh and noting that the game is getting exciting. As of now that is it, I eagerly await your defence. | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
I have no other option that expressing me my reads. Let's start Steveling: For a moment, I thought that you would have a more cooperative attitude towards the thread, but the only post which I've seen of content is this one: On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone. Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on. But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation. So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town. What do you guys think? After that, you only attacked gumshoe, targeting mannerkiss with no reason whatsoever and post content less posts regarding lynches + random fluff. I'm expecting a lot more of you. You have been reading the thread long enough to build some accusations. EchelonTee: What's with the over aggressive and 'flashy' way of posting? I thought that after your talk vs sl0osh your posting style could have changed, but instead you post short lines which clearly lack a basis. My suspicion towards is raising because we don't need these kind of posting here. It looks like you want to work by your own. I hardly see any attempt of trying to lead the town to a healthy discussion. Instead, you are creating a confusing atmosphere to us. What is your plan? Which are your goals? Your intentions are not very clear... Probably the most confusing thing you did in the whole game is jump to vote at MG just after jaj22 opened a case against him. On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote: He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladius more after these messages! Seriously? No reasoning? Not any argument behind? Please, take a look to his behavior. I find it really scum and definitely NOT pro-town. This also applies to your earlier stand against sl0osh. MidnightGladius: You are in the very edge of what I consider constructive posting and what is just repeating what others said. I look you more to the path of constructiveness, but I'm expecting more about you. Your posting was slightly better in NMM3, although limited still (you were vig that game). Be a little more aggressive, but that's all. DimmuKlok: Please post more. You have only targeted the most obvious players at that moment. Also your 1st and 2nd were very fluffy. If you don't contribute more you will get targeted. Alderan: He looks very town for me at least. You made your stand clear from the start and you are pressuring Dimmu. Looks very neat so far. Mannerkiss: When you get back home, you'd better have good reads/accusations because your absence is really hurting us. Your semi analysis in your last post targets common players as well. I want to see more. jaj22: I don't have a clear picture of you yet You have been replying a fair amount of posts and looking forward information. I wouldn't vote for MG that early though, but it's up to you and we'll see how things come into the light after some hours. blae000: Perhaps you've only have made a few posts, but they are good quality ones. He looks to have good intentions. I would like to read more about him though. TWhawkins This has been his only contribution so far: On February 17 2012 13:56 TKHawkins wrote: Welcome. First game on this forum. Anyway, I don't think Gumshoes poll is scummy. It's more likely he just thought "he I wonder if this idea would work." Clearly the answer is no and he didn't really think it through. Seems like more of newbie attempt at something more then anything else. I'm sure the obsever quick thread is already LOLing hard at us. I laughed too (and didn't vote since I hadn't known the game had started). As for the policy on Lurker hunting, it's obviously a bit early to call people lurkers since many people might not even know the game has started yet (though definately not too early to discuss how to handle lurkers). It is best not to go after lurkers right away. The mafia generally aren't going to be completely inactive at the start. Rather, they are going to try to blend in. Scum post a reasonable amount, but don't contribute. And finally, the Sl0osh vs Ech thing, I do think it's suspicious for Sl0osh to be acting defensive already. We need to hear more. Please, don't be shy. Come with some accusations. Your posts somewhat seem to you to look interested, but your post count says to opposite. Janaan: Hard to read. He has good intentions and makes good points, but I still i want to hear more from him. Looking forward to his posts. gumshoe: OK i'll be honest with this one. Many times when I saw his posts, i just the feeling to grab my laptop and smash to the ground. I'm pretty sure that everyone is conscious of this posts and ideas. He has been slowing down the posting for a while and in fact has given good well developed opinions against jaj and somewhat to MG. Anyways, that drama we saw in the first hours didn't really made a good organized discussion later on. I'm glad that your are calming down, gum. DoYouHas Very active, pointing good posts and having a very good analysis in his posts. A very good town read from him. sl0osh Your posts have been more concrete after the clash with ET. You are slowly getting to that style I loved about you back in NMM3. I'm expecting you to build a very good solid case in the future. That would be it. I really want to see EchelonTee with more productive and well developed posts. His individualism in this thread make me feels he has the most scummy behavior. I'll wait to your response before I cast my vote, specially the one regarding the MG jumping. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
The problem I have with Gumshoe's arguements is that they seem generally like you're just attacking Midnight just because he was attacking you. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the analysis is invalid, I just question the motivation behind them. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 11:16 Steveling wrote: I present to you, Gomshoe the Wifom Jester! You can already see from here, before the game even started, the nature of his posting. You have a bad relationship with hyperbole? No shit. Your posts wreak havoc and confusion even in the /in period of the game. That's WIFOM scum in its best right there. You assume ofcourse that everyone will think exactly that and dismiss their suspicions for you. And it worked actually, only a handfull of players remain cautious towards you. Myself was joking around with it at first glance. Only after I filtered you, I begun to see it for what it's worth. Laborious scum play. Another obvious scum minded WIFOM. You say so yourself that it would be naive for someone not to judge you based on that poll. Yet most of us thought of it as either a joke or bad/naive town play. Have you guessed that would happen? That you would get away with that? Ofc now, I use WIFOM on my part to say that, but here comes your posting to validate me and my reasoning. In 2 separate posts you accuse 2 different people of not questioning your poll. The reasons or the purpose you do that is irrelevant. What matters is that the only way you can do that is if you had already assumed that noone would hold you responsible for this poll. Because if they wouldn't, then you would simply be commiting suicide. There's no logical reason to do that whatsoever. So, it's clear that you used WIFOM logic in this poll. Now, although initially you fooled some of the most naive of us(like me) when some other players like Echelon and Midnight, started to doubt you, you gradually changed colors and stance. At first you feel the need to complement yourself, after taking more heat you go to (read the bolded parts) next few posts it comes down to to finally go to So as we all see, you try to tone down the polls meaning as more and more people are on to you. To top if all off you admitted that you lied! How in the name of earth am I the first to make a case against you is beyond me. You basically yelled "IM SCUM SUCKERS", while using that dubious poll to shift the blame to others and wifoming yourself out from the poll's sticky situation. Lets look now at how you approached those who accused you based on the poll. People that as you said in your own words So you had every reason to push a case against the two of them. Lets see how you handled it. There were 2 of these players. MidnightGladius and Echellon. Your last response towards Midnight was Your previous one was this,(bolded) So, after OMGUS him with that last sentence, then for no reason at all you back off of him. And all that after prophesying that those who pursue you will be mafia. Why was what? If you did plan to not pressure him at all, then why the OMGUS stance? Sense? Zero. The other guy who accused you was Echellon. This was your last dialog with him concerning the matter, Really? You apologize? How cute. You will notice how that WIFOM poll plot is activated again on this quote as well. "Don't try to accuse me cause I know that you wouldn't be so stupid to do so!" Your play is scum 100% gomshoe. You post in quantity but not in quality. You lie. You so admit it yourself. You make obvious WIFOM play. In fact your play is so weird that even in the off chance that you are a dazed towny it's still better to kill you off now. I can't imagine what messy situation you will cause in the 3rd day for example. Theres a similar trend between you and glados, you both want to portray me as mafia but are equally willing to kill me if I'm a townie because I seem like a risk. If you just said I was mafia, that would be a case, instead your trying to say that killing a bad player( in a newbie game) is just as good as killing scum. Regardless of my crazy posting if I am a townie I will vote and build a case against the player I find the most logically suspicious(glados right now) , i will not openly accuse someone at random just to spark discussion , rather I'll let them come to me by setting myself up as the trap. If you think I am mafia and you are a townie, vote for me, but if I flip green don't you dare think that it was still a good decision to lynch a townie who was actively posting(albiet somewhat chaotically) and answering questions as best he could. It's never a good idea to lynch a townie instead of scum especially not in a game where a miss lynch costs more than usual, if you think I'm an awful townie just ignore me, but don't convince yourself that I'm more of a threat then the people WHO WANT TO KILL YOU! Now on to you! Up until just a few posts ago you were still dealing with the fallout of a dumb suggestion. You asked for a no lynch... and then blamed your bad decision on inexperience. Thats a bit fishy to me, especially when the discussion TO lynch has already been had at length, so your inexperienced and unobservant. So after such a silly suggestion that you admitted was silly(remind you of someone and some poll? I spy some hypocrisy!) you decide to post some unique analysis on several players you've analyzed at length right? Nope! You accuse me! The go to guy for everyone who wants an easy contribution! You try to overcome the stigma of "don't comment on gumshoe, were all sick of him!" by saying that that is the atmosphere I want, in saying so you side step the entire point, you can comment on me, just comment on other players too, no ones stopped reading into me, they've just broadened out because they've realized that focusing on me too long is detrimental to the game (and also that a complete newbie who has less than a hundred posts on team liquid let alone on tl mafia is probably not this elaborate and risky) , the point is to keep all your options open. You don't have to stop suspecting me, I encourage you too, what I did deserves suspicion, but don't just focus on me, You have made almost no contributions this game, and your first major one was a stupid plan and the next one was an accusation against me. I'd like to hear your opinion on a few other people or topics, in tangent with your opinion on me if you wish, but running this same track will help no one. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:04 Janaan wrote: Ok, Gumshoe, just a side note, next time you post a case with multiple quotes like that, please use spoilers amd regular quotes. It took me a couple read-throughs to even distinguish between the quotes and your own words. The problem I have with Gumshoe's arguements is that they seem generally like you're just attacking Midnight just because he was attacking you. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the analysis is invalid, I just question the motivation behind them. I understand your reservations, the reason though that I focused on Gladose's assault on me is because that was pretty much the only thing he did until he was accused of being scum. His contributed nothing but obvious suspicions and the suspicions directed at me grew almost systematically despite the fact that my posting got better as time went on as opposed to worse. Also I'll remember the quotes thing next time. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
On February 18 2012 10:37 Janaan wrote: Midnight, what are YOUR reads right now? You put forward MannerKiss as a pressure vote, then change to Gumshoe one post later because you didn't like his statistical analysis. Do you have any other suspicions? Any decent town reads? MannerKiss is actively lurking and needs to step it up or die. Some of the other lurkers are active candidates for modkills at this point, but he's not, and that means that we should pressure him. However, gumshoe's posting is actively hurting us, and while I'm not certain that he's mafia, I'm growing increasingly convinced. I would consider both of these votes to be pressure votes. I'd honestly rather pressure gumshoe to quiet down and concentrate than pressure MannerKiss to speak up :D My strongest other scumread lies on EchelonTee, for the reasons I mentioned earlier: His sequence of 1) being glad that there was activity 2) accusing me without a case 3) saying he would provide a case 4) telling DYH to support my lynch 5) not presenting a case 6) leaving the discussion seemed really suspicious to me. I'm not going to offer you town reads, because I don't feel that they help the town find and lynch mafia, and they let the mafia know who to target to slow down the town's momentum. If I think a player is town, that doesn't mean that we're in agreement on any particular read, and vice versa. On February 18 2012 10:56 jaj22 wrote: So much for the activity. Neither DimmuKlok's defence nor Steveling's reads have shown up. MannerKiss produced one post with town reads and the obvious target. TKHawkins and Zelblade haven't shown up at all. MidnightGladius apparently thinks that telling people they make no sense is a valid defence. C'mon guys, you can't all be scum. I'm off to bed. Hoping that someone pulls an awesome town-leader performance overnight and gets a proper vote going, because it's going to be seriously tough to get a majority on scum at this rate. You apparently think that nonsensical attacks should be taken seriously. If nothing else, vote with the proper formatting so that it will get counted properly. You're missing a colon at the moment. On February 18 2012 12:23 gumshoe wrote: Wall of text. That's the kind of posting that I really don't to have to deal with in the lategame :S | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:32 MidnightGladius wrote: MannerKiss is actively lurking and needs to step it up or die. Some of the other lurkers are active candidates for modkills at this point, but he's not, and that means that we should pressure him. However, gumshoe's posting is actively hurting us, and while I'm not certain that he's mafia, I'm growing increasingly convinced. I would consider both of these votes to be pressure votes. I'd honestly rather pressure gumshoe to quiet down and concentrate than pressure MannerKiss to speak up :D My strongest other scumread lies on EchelonTee, for the reasons I mentioned earlier: His sequence of 1) being glad that there was activity 2) accusing me without a case 3) saying he would provide a case 4) telling DYH to support my lynch 5) not presenting a case 6) leaving the discussion seemed really suspicious to me. I'm not going to offer you town reads, because I don't feel that they help the town find and lynch mafia, and they let the mafia know who to target to slow down the town's momentum. If I think a player is town, that doesn't mean that we're in agreement on any particular read, and vice versa. You apparently think that nonsensical attacks should be taken seriously. If nothing else, vote with the proper formatting so that it will get counted properly. You're missing a colon at the moment. That's the kind of posting that I really don't to have to deal with in the lategame :S I put alota work into that wall of text! Can you at least read a bit of it? | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5201 Posts
look at jaj's reasoning, then my reasoning. they're similar. i think u scum for same reason. u havent even responded to jaj's post, juist say "he dont make sense". u cant even respond legitimately. oh I'm scummy just for accusing you, eh? that's called OMGUS. u have no case on me brody. respond to jaj's case on u or die fr phone | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:23 gumshoe wrote: Theres a similar trend between you and glados, you both want to portray me as mafia but are equally willing to kill me if I'm a townie because I seem like a risk. If you just said I was mafia, that would be a case, instead your trying to say that killing a bad player( in a newbie game) is just as good as killing scum. Regardless of my crazy posting if I am a townie I will vote and build a case against the player I find the most logically suspicious(glados right now) , i will not openly accuse someone at random just to spark discussion , rather I'll let them come to me by setting myself up as the trap. If you think I am mafia and you are a townie, vote for me, but if I flip green don't you dare think that it was still a good decision to lynch a townie who was actively posting(albiet somewhat chaotically) and answering questions as best he could. It's never a good idea to lynch a townie instead of scum especially not in a game where a miss lynch costs more than usual, if you think I'm an awful townie just ignore me, but don't convince yourself that I'm more of a threat then the people WHO WANT TO KILL YOU! Now on to you! Up until just a few posts ago you were still dealing with the fallout of a dumb suggestion. You asked for a no lynch... and then blamed your bad decision on inexperience. Thats a bit fishy to me, especially when the discussion TO lynch has already been had at length, so your inexperienced and unobservant. So after such a silly suggestion that you admitted was silly(remind you of someone and some poll? I spy some hypocrisy!) you decide to post some unique analysis on several players you've analyzed at length right? Nope! You accuse me! The go to guy for everyone who wants an easy contribution! I didn't blame my no-lynch-cause-only-4-hour-left fail to inexperience. Where did you see that? Pls quote it. It was just a mistake on my part. That's even more lies coming out from you. You say that you are the go to person to blame and you leave it at that. Yes you are the person that seems more suspicious to me? So? You are not posting any arguments. You just whine that we accuse you. The other axis on your ''defense'' is that I don't seem to interested at least at the moment on anyone else. Dude I made a case on you, you either couter argument or not, you can't say " That's not fair, pls blame someone else too". For yet another time you don't make sense. Fyi I did check all filters. The less solid for obvious reason was yours. With more discussion I'll form more opinions. And tbh I didn't read your wall of text either. I almost had a seizure first time I saw it,xD, pls learn how to format it in an appropriate way. Pm me if you want. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5201 Posts
can ppl stop ignoring my post on dimmuklok. stop saying that i'm doing nothing and posting "flashy", i posted some analysis. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
1) My accusations against you have grown in intensity without reason 2) I haven't contributed significantly to town Let's be very clear here. You say that your posting has been getting better, but I strongly disagree. Early on, you had a bad plan. Then, you posted shaky reasoning for your plan. Then, you admitted to lying and misrepresenting the intentions of your original plan. Then, you started posting long lists and walls of text full of point-by-point analysis and confirmation bias. You can't just keep doing this. As to my levels of contribution, you're using that argument in a flawed way. I'm responding to my accusers, presenting my thoughts, and trying to make my positions as clear as possible. The town will have plenty of evidence about my behavior to go through in the coming days. What more can you reasonably expect of me? EchelonTee, you're free to do as you please, but when you say "More to come after this message," that creates some expectations. When you fail to live up to those expectations, that confuses me. As for jaj's case, what of it? I'm not contributing? Really? | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:49 EchelonTee wrote: trackdoor, my plan is to lynch scum. as townie, i'm nost supposed to have elaborate plans. why would u assume that i have a master plan can ppl stop ignoring my post on dimmuklok. stop saying that i'm doing nothing and posting "flashy", i posted some analysis. OK, fine. Now I would like to hear some analysis about your vote on MidnightGladius | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Last point though, my main problem with you is that your posting that was directed expressly towards me got more hostile as I generally started contributing more information. You never once doubted your suspicion you just grew steadily more suspicious of me. Same thing with Ech, you suspected him at the start of the game and you still suspect him now, more so, anyone else you suspect? Oh yeah Manner, the easy pick you made from before, you have basically said the exact same things as you said earlier before you were under pressure,your presenting old information as if its new and useful, its really neither. To me that seems pretty scummy. Also are me and Ech on the same team? So let me get this straight I go on irc with him instantly the moment the games started, tell him about my "awesome" poll, get the go ahead from him cause its such an awesome plan and tell him to call me scum to draw attention to me and him so wed be flamed so much that eventually it would seem too obvious that we were actually scum? Acuse one of us, or at least say its one or the other because the above is a theory far more incomprehensible than any of my posts. Seriously you still haven't contributed anything whatsoever, your proof against Ech is that he voted for you and backed off, he told us in advance he was going out long before he accused you. Weak sauce man , also wait till he presents his case sometime before the lynch before you say he doesn't have a case, maybe he wants to see you squirm a bit more. Oh one last thing, someone has a suggestion for you "You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching." Guess who said that? | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On February 17 2012 15:26 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone, I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started. Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. Something to add to the scummy actions of DimmuKlok: I didn't really notice this at first, and just now saw it while looking through his filter. He says that previous to the game starting, he'd checked every night to see if we'd started. Now that it has, he's nowhere to be found. Not neccesarily incriminating, but at least worth noting, along with previous posts against him (primarily Alderan's). We NEED you to start being active, DimmuKlok. For now, though... ##Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
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