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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience. My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
I posted that poll way too early in the game to organize a hostile response with Ech, so now the huge grand arching plan that Steveling accuses me of would have to include Ech running back and forth to pm me a few minutes before that poll went up and his response landed. Logically one of us is probably mafia and one of us is probably town, that or both of us are town which could spell the worst case scenario if one of us is lynched on the first day and the other is lynched on the second or murdered on the first night. I think as things stand the ideal move is to lynch one of us today, if the person lynched is mafia that will all but clear the other of suspicion. But if the one lynched is town then you guys need to approach the situation a bit more cautiously, because its very possible that you could end up lynching two townies. so the best options are either lynch me or ech because we were opposed to one another at the very start and were the most suspicious posters, or vote for hawk because he still hasn't posted. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit. I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience. My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours. Do You, in what way did you expect it to be debated? | ||
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DimmuKlok
United States225 Posts
It's1 in the morning here, so I'm going to leave it at that for now and get some sleep. Today(Saturday) is going to be very similar to yesterday when it comes to posting pattern for me. I understand that my availability is hurting the town, and I apologize, but I'll be contributing as much as possible. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit. I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience. My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours. I did read your defense on gumshoe. I stopped taking it seriously after this On February 18 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote: gumshoe has done a number of things that are not helping the town. The have been pointed out quite a few times so I won't go into depth about them now. Things like derailing, cluttering, unclear-ness, lying, a few inconsistencies. The reason is quite obvious I think. Not that I believe that your play is bad or scummy DYH, but there's a point up to you can excuse one's behavior. Just look at gums last post, I won't comment on it, but just take a look at how hes trying to use "statistics" again(oh my) to prove his point. Anyway, I think all that should be said about gum have been said. Lets move on for now. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
The only way it has been discussed that I have seen is through statements similar to, "I can't believe people are ignoring gum's anti-town play". Moving on... On February 18 2012 15:52 gumshoe wrote: As a suggestion, for the upcoming votes, there seems to be two major posting suspects, me and Ech. I can almost assure you that were not both mafia. I posted that poll way too early in the game to organize a hostile response with Ech, so now the huge grand arching plan that Steveling accuses me of would have to include Ech running back and forth to pm me a few minutes before that poll went up and his response landed. Logically one of us is probably mafia and one of us is probably town, that or both of us are town which could spell the worst case scenario if one of us is lynched on the first day and the other is lynched on the second or murdered on the first night. I think as things stand the ideal move is to lynch one of us today, if the person lynched is mafia that will all but clear the other of suspicion. But if the one lynched is town then you guys need to approach the situation a bit more cautiously, because its very possible that you could end up lynching two townies. so the best options are either lynch me or ech because we were opposed to one another at the very start and were the most suspicious posters, or vote for hawk because he still hasn't posted. This is another bad plan gum -_-. I have already explained why I think you are town, and I am far from convinced of ET's scumminess. So from my perspective the only value in your plan is a lynch for information, which is dumb. There is still time on the clock to take apart all the cases that have been presented by quite a few people and really try and get a sense of what is going on. And should that fail I am actually pretty content with landing on someone like MannerKiss or another fluff poster. We need to lynch according to the most likely to be scum, I will try to make my case for who that is early tomorrow so there will still be time for voting. | ||
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TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
Manner still hasn't given a good explanation as to why he was able to post once, then 3 hours later respond literally within 5 minutes of being accused on the thread, and then go silent again. He posted since, but still didn't say anything to address it. Janaan On February 17 2012 17:11 Janaan wrote: 3. Something I'm really concerned about right now is that there seems to be a few players who have posted since the game started, but only in the most fluffy of ways. Specifically, jaj22, DimmuKlok, trackd00r, MannerKiss, and to a lesser extent, Steveling and TKHawkins. I understand if they didn't have the time to do more than just check in at the start of the game, but still, for so many people to just put out one or two fairly useless posts is overall not a good pro-town atmosphere. We HAVE to find some way to get people involved and posting. One player that concerns me right now is MannerKiss. First he gets called out to provide some decent content by DoYouHas, then he posts a single sentence acknowledging DoYouHas's post, but doesn't post any content. I'm getting slightly scummy vibes from his play right now. It's worth looking into as we go forward. In that quote he basically accuses almost everybody who had posted in the thread at the time of being lurkers or scummy. Its not really helpful to spray such accusations without backing it up. He complains about "fluff" posts but does not include Gumshoe in his list of people who are posting fluffy. He then kinda jumps onto a DimmuKlok bandwagon based entirely on Alderan's post. He says all the right things but isn't really contributing. @Trackdoor, just a question. I seem to recall you being one of the few who didn't want to lynch lurkers. But your analysis seems to be mostly, this guy is posting a lot so he's town. Have you changed your policy on lynching lurkers or is this just your way to make them post? | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On February 18 2012 16:17 Steveling wrote: I did read your defense on gumshoe. I stopped taking it seriously after this The reason is quite obvious I think. Not that I believe that your play is bad or scummy DYH, but there's a point up to you can excuse one's behavior. Just look at gums last post, I won't comment on it, but just take a look at how hes trying to use "statistics" again(oh my) to prove his point. Anyway, I think all that should be said about gum have been said. Lets move on for now. Its not statistics - _ - Ech was the first guy to attack me, He seems suspicious and he's opposed to me, were not both mafia because there just wasn't time or reason to organize this big a backstab at the start. So say if Ech turned up mafia, that he would mean when he accused me he knew I wasn't mafia. If I turn out to be mafia it means Ech was right in calling me so and is a townie because as I said there wasn't enough time to set up such an elaborate back stab. If the lynchee is town then its best to drop the whole case for the moment to avoid a second mislynch. Also you've addressed one aspect of do's post, and disregarded the other. Yes Do defended me, but he also listed who stands where on the gumshoe front, no one has discussed any of the results of his findings. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:48 Steveling wrote: And tbh I didn't read your wall of text either. I almost had a seizure first time I saw it,xD, pls learn how to format it in an appropriate way. Pm me if you want. Just want to clarify, PM's and outside communication (such as irc) is FORBIDDEN (outside of mafia talking to each other) It would be a shame for people to get modkilled / make the game unfair unknowingly. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On February 18 2012 16:25 TKHawkins wrote: It's past 2 am and I just got done catching up. Will just fill in a few quick thoughts before going to bed. Manner still hasn't given a good explanation as to why he was able to post once, then 3 hours later respond literally within 5 minutes of being accused on the thread, and then go silent again. He posted since, but still didn't say anything to address it. Janaan + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 17:11 Janaan wrote: 3. Something I'm really concerned about right now is that there seems to be a few players who have posted since the game started, but only in the most fluffy of ways. Specifically, jaj22, DimmuKlok, trackd00r, MannerKiss, and to a lesser extent, Steveling and TKHawkins. I understand if they didn't have the time to do more than just check in at the start of the game, but still, for so many people to just put out one or two fairly useless posts is overall not a good pro-town atmosphere. We HAVE to find some way to get people involved and posting. One player that concerns me right now is MannerKiss. First he gets called out to provide some decent content by DoYouHas, then he posts a single sentence acknowledging DoYouHas's post, but doesn't post any content. I'm getting slightly scummy vibes from his play right now. It's worth looking into as we go forward. In that quote he basically accuses almost everybody who had posted in the thread at the time of being lurkers or scummy. Its not really helpful to spray such accusations without backing it up. He complains about "fluff" posts but does not include Gumshoe in his list of people who are posting fluffy. He then kinda jumps onto a DimmuKlok bandwagon based entirely on Alderan's post. He says all the right things but isn't really contributing. @Trackdoor, just a question. I seem to recall you being one of the few who didn't want to lynch lurkers. But your analysis seems to be mostly, this guy is posting a lot so he's town. Have you changed your policy on lynching lurkers or is this just your way to make them post? I tried to clear my first post up a bit, my intention was not accusations against the people I mentioned. My intention was merely to encourage those people to post more content. As far as Gumshoe is concerned, I had already adressed him in my first point, so I didn't bother mentioning him any further. That seemed reasonable to me at time. As far as my DimmuKlok vote is concerned, I had already been thinking he looked slightly scummy before Alderan posted, and for essentially the same reasons as he did. I could have done my own analysis of his posts, but instead I just referenced Alderan's post, and moved on. The vote itself was actually more of a pressure-vote, not a we-must-lynch-him-now vote, so I didn't feel a full-blown case from me would be neccesary, especially since the work was already essentially done. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
There is alot back and forth, but two names that stick out the most to me is Ech and gumshoe. Ech: *He starts off by posting: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote: Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. It may not be the biggest anti-town play ever. But its definitely not a pro-town post. One line, calling someone out at the very beginning for making a mistake. I agree, first thing I though when I saw the poll was :"dafuq is this guy doing? scum much?" But then again, posting this oneliner doesnt feel pro-town to me. *Then he continues with: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:23 EchelonTee wrote: I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs. If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT. Which I also find anti-town more then pro-town. The lynching lurkers part is fine, but the last sentence is overly agressive so early in the game. If it was a way to get him to post and it turns out your town, I dont like your style. With this short agressive post you are not giving anything valid to the rest of us in town. *After an ok post where he defends himself from a FOS, this mess starts: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 12:05 slOosh wrote: Heartily agree that we cannot just talk about policy forever. However. Why did you post that last line? On February 17 2012 12:11 EchelonTee wrote: Because I wanted you to post. On February 17 2012 12:13 slOosh wrote: By threatening me with the label of mafia if I didn't? On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote: did you feel threatened? :D and so on.... Earlier I said I sided with Ech.. I filtered him to read up on his actions and started to regret taking his side in that arguement. While sloosh may have been overly defensive, he atleast brought up some points in his posts. He asked some questions. Ech responded with (again) way to agressive post, with no points or questions that could force out some useful information. Then it got out of control imo. Both of them coming of as suspicious, and continuing the posting while it should have stopped. But the very first posts(I quoted) is examples of posts i get suspicious of from ech. *After the situation with sloosh settles down, I just dont get what Ech is trying: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 13:32 EchelonTee wrote: You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!! Indeed, I'm glad that you are.  Giving excuses for his agressive posting. Which he also did earlier. And then this post: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 16:25 EchelonTee wrote: Oh WOW I totally went crazy, for some reason I thought sloosh double fos'd me, when it was DoYouHas who first did so. holy overreaction, batman. lol @ MannerKiss dropping a one liner and fading away More excuses, ok he might have realized he overreacted. But it's the last sentence that makes it weird, calling out MannerKiss. While MannerKiss did do that, this was after Ech vs Sloosh and people where talking about them, suspecting them. So this to me feels like this: "oh, my bad.. Btw, this guy doesnt look town at all lol".. The perfect moment to drag himself out of the hole by pointing at someone else. *He gives a reasonable FOS on DimmuKlok, but sort of out of nowhere. I'm not going into it, because I doesnt provide anything in my case. *Lastly there is like 7-8 posts with one liners and just general bullshit.. Examples: + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 09:43 EchelonTee wrote: No. I will eat a baby if that happens. + Show Spoiler + not really, but seriously, no. On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote: He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladius more after these messages! On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote: you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing None of his last post gives anything to the town, while he looks active and sort of discussing with others. It's not "OMG YOUR SCUM" but it's absolutely not pro-town. This is the reason why Ech is on top of my list at the moment. Others: I will go much, much lighter on the others as Ech was my main case. And I dont really have any strong reads, just speculations. *The second name i mentioned was gumshoe: I think everyone agrees he is spamming alot. Answering to (nearly) every singel post in this thread. Looking very active, but he doesnt really give his read, or information to us in town. It's alot of fluff, I'm actually having a hard time reading his posts laltely, because everytime I wonder what the point hos that huge post of his was. But the deal is sort of the same: not the most obviouse scum, but I dont read his posts thinking he is town either. I'll go even ligher on the rest. *I got surprised when I saw Zelblade post, thinking "who is this". He doesnt have alot of posts, but the few he has makes more sense to me, and feels more pro-town. I'm not very suspicious, but would like to se more activity(And I know I'm in the same boat, not beeing able to post as much as others) *trackd00r Maybe the biggest pro-town player in my book. Quality posts and always trying to read players, not posting any bullshit to bring the chaos. *Jaj22 feels like he is trying to get the best information possible. I'm not sure I agree with him on everything, but I dont really see him as scum either. *Janaan Dont agree with every point he is making, and he is not posting insane amount of posts. But feels like a pro-town player, trying to help. *Steveling felt weird to me when he started talking about no lynching, but apparently was missinformed with the rules of 48 H daytime. Then goes on to talk alot about gumshoe(and really, who can blame him for beeing a little mad). But not to much content to feel 100% safe, imo. Looking forward to see more posts. *MannerKiss - still way to inactive. Should come out with some quality posts or else he is starting to feel like a lynch. Just because he is not helping us in any way. *DimmuKlok has said he is going to have problems posting. Hard to say anything about him really. The only thing I can say is: he is apologizing alot, and he might even be lying. I dont know though, sort of in the same boat as mannerkiss. *Alderan 1 good post, the rest is just short answers. Might be trying to come of as active, while just trying to dodge the bullet. Not very town feel about this guy, but I want to see more content before saying anything else. *TKHawkins to inactive, and in the same boat as MannerKiss. Could be that he just can't post or doesnt care, or he just trying to stay under the radar. *DoYouHas Had mixed feelings about this guy for a while.(look into my filter to see my post about him earlier) But after that post he started to act more pro-town. Looking to force out information. Still not sure, though he's probably town in my book. *MidnightGlasius started off talking statistics for to long imo. Then I got the feel he might be town with a couple of posts forcing people to post and answer, before he went back to fluff. Maybe beeing abit to worried about what people think of him, instead of just contributing to the town as best as he can, after he defends himself. Not really sure about this guy. *Sloosh I started of siding against him, then I re-read it(him vs Ech) and figured maybe he made more sense then Ech. I think that argument got way out of hand to early to big of a read of it. Wish he could give some read instead of responding to posts with a couple of lines. Neutral to him. I think that's all? If I forgot someone it's probably a lurker without any posts or I dont really have a read/feeling so I just forgot him. Not to confident in my english so this took a while, and there may be posts that got posted while I was writing this. But you get a general idea! | ||
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
Since ET is at the top of your list, could you vote for him? I see no point in you holding your vote like this. @DoYouHas, who do you think we should lynch? As for gumshoe, I agree with your read on him - I just dont feel that the scum team will let him post like that. Maybe im missing something here, but assuming that gumshoe is town, I dont really think your list of those who had attacked and supported him is very useful at all. I believe that both townies and scum have motivations to attack or support him. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
On February 18 2012 20:45 zelblade wrote: @blae000 Since ET is at the top of your list, could you vote for him? I see no point in you holding your vote like this. @DoYouHas, who do you think we should lynch? As for gumshoe, I agree with your read on him - I just dont feel that the scum team will let him post like that. Maybe im missing something here, but assuming that gumshoe is town, I dont really think your list of those who had attacked and supported him is very useful at all. I believe that both townies and scum have motivations to attack or support him. Point of holding my vote is because it's users who havent posted much that I dont really have a read on, and another name I'm looking at (as I wrote). I dont really see the point in actually voting now. If a player dont respond to reads/being accused of acting suspicious - then thats something you might use in your case agains that player. As of right now he is on top of my list, gumshoe is up there and the rest is either town/neutral to me. So my post will (hopefully) give players a chance to react, either to my read on them or my read on another player. Which will allow me to re-think my reads. Throwing out a vote on ET now seems like an overkill, he probably gets the point, specially since i'm not the only one looking at him. But if you dont think my post in it self will do the job, and you want some agressive posting - I will do this: FOS: EchelonTee | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Making a list about everyone with 3 liners is not helping, it's just fluff. Anyway,my pro town reads so far are trackd00r and sloosh. Not too sure about anyone else so far, with some clinging towards scum a bit more and some towards town a bit more but nothing I can make a case on. My 2 lengthy posts were on gom and midnight, I wanna post one more solid analysis but I'm trying to set my sleep schedule right, so I'm staying 30 hours up,Q_Q. So dunno if I will have the courage for filtering and analysing, just a heads up guys. I'll be here though till a few hours till the 1st night comes(that's if I don't fall asleep, xP). | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
On February 18 2012 21:25 Steveling wrote: I appreciate the effort blae but as a general rule of thumb, if you are gonna spend 1-2 hours catching up with the thread, then please make some solid analysis based on one or two players. Making a list about everyone with 3 liners is not helping, it's just fluff. Anyway,my pro town reads so far are trackd00r and sloosh. Not too sure about anyone else so far, with some clinging towards scum a bit more and some towards town a bit more but nothing I can make a case on. My 2 lengthy posts were on gom and midnight, I wanna post one more solid analysis but I'm trying to set my sleep schedule right, so I'm staying 30 hours up,Q_Q. So dunno if I will have the courage for filtering and analysing, just a heads up guys. I'll be here though till a few hours till the 1st night comes(that's if I don't fall asleep, xP). Ok, without going to much OMGUS I'll just say my thoughts on ET felt a little bit more then 3 lines, no? And the reason I didnt go in depth on gumshoe is because everyone was/is doing it, I'm just saying I agree. And again, I dont want to be a dick. But your sleep-schedule and one-liner pro-town read doesnt really help town in the game either. If you dont think my little summary at the end helped, that's fine. That was my thoughts after reading through the 5 pages or so, that I missed overnight, taking a few notes here and there. If you think my posting is stupid, keep it to your self, as it doesnt provide anything useful in this game. It just leads to an argue on how to lay out posts and play this game. | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
Zelblade, I'm glad you are posting again @DYH: Sorry for ignoring your post regarding gumshoe. It's well... I can't explain the situation anymore. I know that he is town because otherwise, their teammates would have told him to shut up and calm down. I'm very afraid that gumshoe style of posting brings more confusion a chaos to the thread. From now, I'm not going to get into more of his drama if there isn't a very good reason to do so. @TKhawkins: There is a huge difference between a player who posts lots of content less posts and one who post a few but deep and content. For example blae000 hasn't posted a lot of times, but his posts are good. Ech and gumshoe, in the other hand... I still believe that ET is our best candidate for lynching. I've already given my explanations why, as well as others. He hasn't replied my post yet. Sorry, but I cant wait any longer. ##Vote: EchelonTee MannerKiss, please show up again with something new, or I'll consider switching my vote. | ||
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TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
I do not think he'd actually listen to scum telling him not to post like that. After all, people have already told him not to post like that here and he ignores everybody. He's definitely giving noob vibes. But a noob could be town or a noob could be mafia. The moderators assigning roles randomly don't care who gets what role. The idea of "he's acting too noob so he must be town because mafia would stop him" is a flimsy argument because he could just be a noob. I don't see how we are supposed to decide his innocence or guilty solely based on that. @Trackdoor. Alright, I get your explanation on the lurker thing. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I didn't respond to it because I agree with it. I don't really like defending people before they need it, although in this case that may have been an error. I'll go a bit further than your defence: If Gumshoe is scum, he's such a rare and special species of scum that I want to put him in a cage and charge people to visit. The closest thing I've seen is Sheth's spammy scum style, but Gumshoe is a tier or two above that. It's much more likely that he's an over-enthusiastic townie. Also I see a lot of new players are suspicious of ET because he's playing flashy and aggressive. These are not common scum traits: Flashy play makes you the centre of attention, which scum want to avoid. Aggression is normally strongly pro-town - we're not here to be nice to each other. Every time a player makes an accusation, that's something you can use later to find scum by association. The players you should look out for are those who just do the easy things. I'll repeat, as it's important: FLASHY AND AGGRESSIVE PLAY IS NOT SCUMMY. ET is a good enough scum player that he can maybe pull off this style, but it's more likely that he's just town on a victory high. | ||
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ZBot
194 Posts
Current votes: MidnightGladius (2): EchelonTee, jaj22 EchelonTee (2): zelblade, trackd00r gumshoe (2): MidnightGladius, DimmuKlok (2): Janaan, gumshoe MannerKiss (0): Not voting: Alderan, slOosh, DoYouHas, MannerKiss, Steveling, TKHawkins, blae000 The Day deadline is at 2012-02-19 09:00:00. (That's approximately 6:40:59 from now.) | ||
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EPT
no reason to suspect as of yet
