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Bisutopia19137 Posts
On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say.
I feel sorry Destiny has to keep coming in here and explaining himself. It's not that the people posting in here aren't SC2 pros, it's the fact that they haven't watched established competitive gaming enough outside of SC2 to understand what makes those games so great. WCG every year was a great place for me to watch not just Brood War games but Counter Strike and all the competitive fighter games that existed. Through my experience watching those other games it becomes transparent what SC2 is lacking. I still have confidence in the future of SC2 after it's expansions, but Destiny is completely right with his way of thinking and you should really treat him with more respect.
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On February 08 2012 05:21 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:46 Recognizable wrote:Destiny, who streams 8 hours a day. Yet has no results says Starcraft takes no skill. He's just trolling. Now let us look at League of Legends. If League of Legends required no skill, it would not be considered a rising e-sport. If you actually played League of Legends enough, you would know that there are a lot of things that need to be taken into account throughout the laning phase, mid game, and late game. During the laning phase, it is all about harass trades, last hitting, positioning, and overall trying to win your lane. Midgame revolves around securing objectives on the map, i.e. dragon, red/blue buffs for your carries, and pushing down lanes. Once again, this requires thought-process and in most cases, positioning. Late game revolves around team fights and baron. Again, positioning, but now teamwork is a HUGE factor.
I've played Halo and a bit of LoL. Just to draw a comparison. In both games there is a REALLLLLLLLLLLLY small individual skill cap and what both games came down to is which team worked better together. For me personally this isn't fun. In Halo teamwork basically meant people furfilling their roles as a player and getting as much guns on one person. There probably isn't much more to LoL teamwork aswell. Anyway I was a high level Halo player but LoL i've never really played so maybe it's different. Which Halo do you play? Halo took less and less skill in the latest games but on Halo 1, a team who won was a team with the best individuals, not so much on Halo 2 but individual skill was really useful and there was quite a high skillcap for a console FPS.
Halo 1 4v4 was pretty messy bro ^^ I played them all, never played CE competitive. However, really the teamwork aspect for Halo CE and halo 2/3/reach seems to be the same. Altough a little bit more complex for CE, it's all about getting the objective done as efficient as possible(securing rockets, capturing flags, etc) Which generally means having all the players in the right positions killing the opponent as efficient as possible.
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His problem is that he thinks SC2 does not reward intelligent and strategic play enough, its a fair enough opinion. Now it would be fine to say chess rewards intelligent play more than SC2 and strategy is everything, but League Of Legends.... no, just no. I am not going to say its a bad game but i think anyone who has played LoL knows the truth and can see what kind of game it is. If LoL is the future of online gaming then RIP e-sports.
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On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy.
idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy.
as long as you dedicate yourself to pure SC2 gaming, you have the ability to become a pro player in time. ive seen people, BRAND NEW to the game starting off in bronze and getting to rank 1 master in a span of 2 months-3 months simply because they play the game to death for hours and hours a day and follow guides on TL.
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On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say.
ouch destiny, you don't even know me and you are looking down on me, but it's fine if you don't wanna share your arguments here because you feel that I am too noob to understand your reasoning.
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On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy.
It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games.
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Didn't he go to korea ?
If he did, then he just hit the korean wall.
What this dude is missing is that the hours people on top level put in this game isn't related to the game itself, but how pro gaming habits developped in korea and what they did produce.
You have to put insane ammounts of time there to be somewhat productive. Hell, it's not even sheer time input that makes you good, its the fucking sweat that pours out of it.
Practicing a starcraft based RTS in Korea, aiming toward Korean competition, is something totally different than anything else in itself.
What this man is talking about is Korean competitive environement, not SC2 itself.
In BW pro teams, often, the player playing the game on TV didn't design his strategy at all but is merely executing what he was told to execute by other people that brainstormed for a week what he should do on a given map, a given day, against a given race, against a given player.
This has nothing anymore to do with "ONLY" the game itself.
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On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games.
Yes, and I actually wholeheartedly agree with Idra's opinion that SC2 is "easy" and dull in terms of strategy in comparison to SCBW... But LoL? IdrA's actually good - and he would never ever compare a RTS to a game where you control one thing and click around.
I do realize that there's a little depth and an element of strategy to DOTA-style games but come on now, let's not be ridiculous.
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On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games.
you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW.
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The concept of one competitive game being "harder" than another is completely stupid. Even an activity such as throwing a ball into a bucket can be practised and skill attained to a remarkable level. The only get out from this is the "skill ceiling" at which no further improvement can possibly be made, for example with tic-tac-toe (naughts and crosses) any 2 people with a brain will draw every game. Neither Starcraft 2 nor LoL have skill ceilings that have been reached, so neither one can be considered "harder" than the other.
HOWEVER, I do agree with Destiny in that very high level competition is won in SC2 by standard build order wins or coin flip strategies, which require a limited amount of actual game skill. This is never the case in LoL, so you could argue that it is easier to be successful at a high level in SC2 because you can succeed using cheesey strategies or by practicing a very few strong build orders so that you can execute them without even thinking (like bunker rush or six gate or something of that nature).
Having said that, the skill barrier to entry of competitive SC2 is much higher than LoL, but I don't think anyone is arguing that.
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Destiny was trolling you, I'm on his stream right this second as I'm typing this.
He said that yes, he is an entertainer but he wants to focus on the competitive side of starcraft 2 even though his most of his money is made from the entertainment side of it.
He has no plans that he's stated to transfer to LoL, I'm sure he just does it to take a break from starcraft when he gets stressed out so it doesn't become stale.
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Why the hell would you compare difficulty of LoL with SC2?
One is a team game to the core and the other is mostly an individual sport.
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On February 08 2012 05:44 NoctemSC wrote:
Destiny was trolling you, I'm on his stream right this second as I'm typing this.
He said that yes, he is an entertainer but he wants to focus on the competitive side of starcraft 2 even though his most of his money is made from the entertainment side of it.
He has no plans that he's stated to transfer to LoL, I'm sure he just does it to take a break from starcraft when he gets stressed out so it doesn't become stale.
of course he is trolling, the OP is trolling to tho. if the OP watches his stream as much as he says he does then he would know that destiny is a massive troll. no one watches destinys stream to "learn" from him rofl. they watch it because he is funny as shit.
destiny streaming LoL at all is a massive troll to anyone that watches his stream mainly for SC2. ppl need to realize that and stop getting butthurt about what he says and stop taking it so seriously.
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On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 00:53 FuxFux wrote:I think no person can really deny the fact that Destiny lost touch with his stream viewers. The past few months, he gradually became less talkative and explanatory to people who came to him for knowledge, and learning. It is like he turned into stone before my eyes. It is not possible to be incredibly competitive and still goof off day in and day out. If you want to watch someone just "have fun" on stream and "be crazy" etc...etc..., then Dragon would be a good pick for you. I understand that this upsets some people, but, due to my desire to actually be competitive instead of only entertaining, it's something that has to have happened. Show nested quote +Still, I must say that it is surprising and shocking to find that Destiny thinks an easy, straight forward and slow-paced game such as League of Legends takes more skill than StarCraft 2. This kind of statement is in no way the result of a clear and lucid thought process. I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me. Show nested quote +Destiny, I understand that it is hard for you. I understand that you find games like LoL an easy way out, an escape. We all know that StarCraft 2 is a hard and demanding game and that improving can sometimes feel like climbing up an extremely steep cliff. My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested. Show nested quote +But I do not understand how you can just give up like this. To publicly humiliate yourself by saying StarCraft 2 requires less skill than LoL? You could have quietly made the jump and switch to play only LoL and I would shed a few tears and go on with my life. But making this statement, I feel, is generally disrespecting the entire StarCraft 2 community, and specifically all the people who followed you vigorously. I'm only publically humiliating myself to the vocal minorities that only see 1 game, their legendary Starcraft 2, as the only competitive game in the world. I still think I could defend the statement that LoL (or any MOBA, honestly, especially DotA 2) requires more "skill" in terms of strategy/intelligence, BY FAR, than Starcraft 2. Show nested quote +A game that requires no skill such as LoL might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to StarCraft 2 is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic. "No skill" game makes you sound immature and bigoted, like your blessed Starcraft 2 is the only competitive game in the world. I wish you would have been around when all of the BW-fans were saying the exact same thing about SC2, and I can tell by the tone of your post that you weren't. Show nested quote +So, I just wanted to open this thread to share my discontempt with your statements, and to let you know that I have lost all respect for you. I know that I am but one fan you lost, so I decided to open it as a thread, to be able to gather the opinion of the rest of my (yes my, not your) community. Sorry if you feel that way, then. Show nested quote +Even though I no longer respect you, I do hope you will be able to one day find redemption. My life will never revolve around seeking redemption from fans. If you want to watch someone act politically correct, then I suggest Incontrol.
Wow, that actually came off as a mannered and to the point response. I was expecting something more in the lines of:
"Listen up [insert curse], i dont know where your [insert curse] sense of entitlement comes from - but I do know my place in the eSports community is to please [insert curse] people like you. You try to belittle me, saying I'm a quitter? What if only do the things find the most constructive? And who are you to tell me, I can't do what i damn well please? This post isn't about game differences between two competitive games. It's post about some random [insert curse] whining about what he believed to be his hero and how he should always meet his own expectations. And furthermore, you have the audacity to call me out, telling me to "stop humiliating" myself when I do something that you don't like. Here's a good pro-tip as you'll ever get: Stop watching the stream and just move on. Don't tell me what I should do with my time.
Oh, and by the way - I couldn't give [insert curse] about your respect nor your redemption "
Not because it's Destiny. But because it is what it is. It's long winded diatribe about one streamer preferring one game over another. If he really wanted a discussion about LoL contra SC2 it would have started like "Destiny said X. I don't agree because of Y, Z,... Let's discuss it". He is basically attacking someone because they don't meet his standards for what streaming or progaming is.
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On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW.
No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are.
Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, because i'm bad, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done.
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Destiny has never and will never be good at SC2, so him talking about SC2 at the high levels and about GSL winners is hilarious and most likely trolling.
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Destiny is most likely trolling. In fact, that's probably one of the most killer troll moves I've ever seen. Seriously, what emotional reaction would you have if you actually thought Destiny, a famous pro player, said and believed something that stupid? Probably rage and disbelief.
The alternative is that Destiny had a major stroke on stream, something I'm not quite ready to believe.
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On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done.
??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games.
as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level.
ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication.
also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else?
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On February 08 2012 05:21 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. beat me to it
Really?
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Would i be wrong if i believed a competitive game is only as hard as the competition you are facing? Consequently, the most important the player-base, as well as presence on the e-sport scene, the tougher the game will be.
Claiming a game is more skillful than an other based on the pace of the game is just a cope out for lesser players who honestly believe a top tier LoL player wouldn't be able to handle the speed better than they could, much faster than they did.
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EPT
