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On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else?
Because being GM doesn't mean shit. The fact that combatex and deezer are GM just prove that GM is meaningless on the NA server. They wouldn't even be able to take 1 game out of 10+ off of even low tier pros at a tournament.
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On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else?
Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. For the average gamer Starcraft is really fucking hard.
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On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master.
no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that.
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On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:
[quote]
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2.
If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2)
Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that.
Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow.
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On February 08 2012 06:17 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:
[quote]
Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say.
People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that. Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow.
lol, where are you getting your imaginary numbers from? also you "cba" to do it because your making the shit up on the spot. 0.1% or less of all starcraft players that play this game is a STUPIDLY huge underestimation. especially when you dont have proof. the only people that even know the real numbers is blizzard.
also high masters range is usually the top 10 or 15 players in a master league division. the numbers change alot tho because of inactivity and all that. a rank 1 can be moved to rank 20 if he hasnt played in awhile but can just get back into the top 5 range easily once he starts to play again(destiny as an example since this thread is about him). thats why its nearly impossible to even make a estimation like you just made which is based purely on a random guess.
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On February 08 2012 06:19 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:17 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that. Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow. lol, where are you getting your imaginary numbers from?
I just checked on Sc2ranks, man do I love that site. If high master is >1000 points. Yeah, I just defined high master right there. You can come up with a better definition. + Show Spoiler +
IWhole master league is 3.9 percent. Again, how can you say something is easy when only 2 to 3 percent of the population is able to reach this.
Edit: Lol, I didn't read it correctly. What sc2 ranks says is that around 2.5 percent of all the master players is >1000. Which gives us a number of around 670 people being in high master. Whatcha know, that's around 0.1 percent. (I did not include GM, there are 1233 GM players)
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On February 08 2012 06:25 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:19 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:17 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that. Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow. lol, where are you getting your imaginary numbers from? I just checked on Sc2ranks, man do I love that site. If high master is >1000 points. Yeah, I just defined high master right there. You can come up with a better definition. + Show Spoiler +If i'm reading it correctly it means about 2 percent of all players are high master. Whole master league is 3.9 percent. So I was wrong. Again, how can you say something is easy when only 2 to 3 percent of the population is able to reach this.
first off 2-3% of players can be hundreds of thousands of players depending on how many ppl actually play SC2.... doesnt sound like such a low number now does it? 2ndly you have to factor in inactivity and the ammount of ppl that only play this game for fun without any intentions of ever becoming good at the game. just because someone is unwilling to take the time out of there day to get into masters doesnt meant its hard to get into. getting into masters league, like i said before, comes mainly from dedicating yourself to the game every day. same as GM, but even more extreme dedication then masters.
and when i say "dedication" i am talking about the ammount of games you play a day and the time u take in practicing build orders/timings/etc. not hard to do if you know how to do it.
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On February 08 2012 04:32 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 04:17 drgoats wrote:On February 08 2012 00:53 FuxFux wrote:
A game that requires no skill such as LoL might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to StarCraft 2 is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic.
If you read his reddit posts you will see that this statement is exactly the thing that he is angry at the SC2 community about. Calling LoL a game that takes no skill is purely ignorant. It is the sort of statement that creates an unnecessary separation between the two game's communities. Tic-tac-toe requires skill too. So does basketball on a 3 foot hoop. So does soccer with a 30 foot wide goal and no goalie. What we're talking about is skill ceiling. LoL has a fairly low skill ceiling. Dota 2 is decently higher. Sc2 is even higher. But in SC2, pure mechanical skill and mermorization will get you very far(some say, way too far), whereas in Dota 2/LoL/HoN, pure mechanical skill is about 10% of the skill required to play the game well at a very high level. Apples, Oranges, LoL sucks, in my personal opinion.
I cannot agree that those games have less of a 'skill ceiling' because there is no way to really figure it out if they do or not. Just because the game is easier to play mechanically doesn't mean that it is not highly complex at the top levels. Chess requires very little APM to play but I still think it has a very high 'skill ceiling'.
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On February 08 2012 06:25 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:19 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:17 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:33 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
idra does and he says basically the same thing. stephano hasnt said it directly, but he thinks the game is easy. It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that. Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow. lol, where are you getting your imaginary numbers from? I just checked on Sc2ranks, man do I love that site. If high master is >1000 points. Yeah, I just defined high master right there. You can come up with a better definition. + Show Spoiler +If i'm reading it correctly it means about 2 percent of all players are high master. Whole master league is 3.9 percent. So I was wrong. Again, how can you say something is easy when only 2 to 3 percent of the population is able to reach this.
It's easy. I get masters with 2 races and I don't need to put in any effort at all and I'm nothing exceptional. You have a bunch of hardly active casuals and people who don't come in contact with the community and have no help or any resources to get better at the game. Yes it's 2%, but most people are not even contenders.
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On February 08 2012 06:34 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:25 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 06:19 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:17 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 06:14 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 06:11 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:59 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:50 Recognizable wrote:On February 08 2012 05:41 Ballistixz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:36 Recognizable wrote:
[quote]
It's because Idra's reference point is Brood War. Starcraft 2 might be easier then Brood War. It's still better then..... almost everything else in terms of individual skill. I can only think of quake, and if I try really hard maybe 3/4 other games. you dont need to play brood war to understand how easy this game is. infact SC2 was built purposely to be easy for the casuals to get more into it without the stress of being a top notch pro like it was in BW. No, you don't know how easy most other Multiplayer games are. Go play some Call of Duty and then come back at me. Starcraft 2 is one of the most challenging multiplayer games there is. Also I find it rediculous that players like Idra and Stephano say this game is easy. Yes it's easier to pick up and play, but we haven't even come close to the skill ceiling. I play on a European GM level and I can tell you I find this game extremely hard, I can write books on the amount of mistakes I make in a single game, from just the accuracy of my mouse control, to the speed in which I select units and add to my control group, fundemental army positioning mistakes, not reacting well to the opponent. Ofcourse I can write a book about all the mistakes I make in a single game, the truth is however. I can also write a page about the mistakes Idra makes in a single game. We haven't even touched the skill ceiling. Most games are still being decided by some kind of midgame timing in my experience and rarely go to the lategame where alot more is to be done. ??? there are alot of "easier competitive" games out there. yugioh, halo, F2P MMOs, P2P MMOs, etc. but it doesnt change the fact that SC2 is among the "easy" brand of competitive games. as far as skill ceiling, here are the requirments to get from say plat to high rank masters in SC2. great excution of build order(which comes easily by simple practice), flawless timing(again, comes with practice), great macro, decent micro, great scouting abilities (knowing when to scout and what to scout for), not getting supply blocked good unit control. thats all you really need. if you dont have these traits then your pretty much diamond level. ALL of those traits can be gained by simply playing the game and practicing OFTEN. its not hard to do at all. now what seprates masters from GM? pure raw games. thats it. play alot of games while ur high lvl masters and eventually you will get into GM. now what seprates a GM player from a pro player? FLAWLESS execution of all the above traits i mentioned, which again comes with tons and tons of practice and dedication. also i dont see how you can be a GM player and still find the game "hard". look at deezer and combat EX. both GMs level. do i even need to say anything else? Yes, so you must practice alot. Isn't that what defines how hard the game is? Just like you I see starcraft mostly as a game of mechanical skill with some strategy and reacting to your opponent. Doesn't take away the fact that there is so much shit to do nobody has even perfected this. How can you say reaching high master is easy when there are like 0.1 percent of all starcraft players are high master. no it doesnt. also 0.1% of all starcraft players are high masters? cant take your post seriously after that. Yes, it's probably smaller. Just do the math if high master is like >1000 points. Just by taking a guess it seems to be a really fucking small percentage of players. I cba to do it right now, but if you want I can update tommorow. lol, where are you getting your imaginary numbers from? I just checked on Sc2ranks, man do I love that site. If high master is >1000 points. Yeah, I just defined high master right there. You can come up with a better definition. + Show Spoiler +If i'm reading it correctly it means about 2 percent of all players are high master. Whole master league is 3.9 percent. So I was wrong. Again, how can you say something is easy when only 2 to 3 percent of the population is able to reach this. first off 2-3% of players can be hundreds of thousands of players depending on how many ppl actually play SC2.... doesnt sound like such a low number now does it? 2ndly you have to factor in inactivity and the ammount of ppl that only play this game for fun without any intentions of ever becoming good at the game. just because someone is unwilling to take the time out of there day to get into masters doesnt meant its hard to get into. getting into masters league, like i said before, comes mainly from dedicating yourself to the game every day. same as GM, but even more extreme dedication then masters. and when i say "dedication" i am talking about the ammount of games you play a day and the time u take in practicing build orders/timings/etc. not hard to do if you know how to do it.
Yeah, I gave you some numbers to work with. Based on top 8 in my own division meaning >1000 points. 670 people being in high master. That's a pretty low number out of a couple hundreds of thousands.
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A game that requires no skill such as LoL might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to StarCraft 2 is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic
What the flying fuck. I honestly was reading this, thinking about how you sounded like a broken, whiny record, and how this must have been an elaborately constructed troll.
I was wrong.
No skill? Owning noobs? Kid, some people actually have some skill in LoL. And if you attempt to say that SC2 has all good players and a greater depth of strategy than League of Legends, you are an idiot on a grand scale. Similarly, if you attempt to make the converse statement, than I call you an equal idiot.
Both games require skill-this is true. Both games are capable of taking immense amounts of time and effort. However, your misconception appears to be threefold-that first, because LoL is a bad game because it is free. Second, because you spend all of your time playing SC2, a LoL community cannot exist. And finally, that League of Legends has a lower skillcurve than SC2. I will address each argument, giving myself equal tiem to beat on your ignorance.
First, LoL is free. You appear to regard this as being more friendly towards "noobs", but I see it as a good thing. I'm certainly not the only one who has intentionally flunked myself into bronze in order to see how bad it is. I have seen a person take 30s to order drones to mine. I have seen planetary fortress rushes without the "planetary fortress". I have seen a Rammus take BT and other DPS items. I have seen idiots at all level of play, and it makes no difference. I have seen the worst mistakes, from MMA blowing up his own command center, to a misplaced ward letting Udyr tear apart a lane. These are bad mistakes, and the fact that you can classify one being more "nooby" than the other shows that you are nthing more than a BIGOT and a TROLL.
Second, LoL had a community. Here on TL, we talk about SC2. However, should you take the time, you may notice that there is a LoL subforum that gains pages almost as fast as any thread in SC2. Also, there are many major LoL sites, from MobaFire to Solomid, that carry out a function similar to TeamLiquid. Pretty much, if you think that SC2 is superior because of the community, you are totally wrong and are making a fool of yourself. You cannot possibly justify yourself, there being more LoL streams on stream sites, more players than SC2, and greater and greater prize pools and tourneys. If you say for a second that SC2 is better because of the community, you are a FOOL.
Finally, LoL has just as large a skillcurve as SC2. While players might not be clicking all over the map, they must still concentrate upon their game. Games hinge upon warding(scouting) and engaging(same term applies), and doing this improperly gives you opponent the decisive advantage. In essence, small things matter in LoL, and as a player gains greater experience, they learn to do this better, making them less nooby. I'm sure that we all have had moments of "oh shit mutas in mah minerals" and "holy crap fiddlesticks OP RQ". You get the same noobs becoming better and better as they keep playing, and the fact that you appear to be ignoring that league of legends had RANKED GAMES AND ELO QUEUEING. just shows your total ignorance.
So, TLDR- you're an elitist idiot, play games before you spout out your stream of pointless crap and pontification.
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LoL and SC2 use two different types of skill. Its valid to say that LoL players lack skill at xxx (for instance, none of them will hit 300 APM), while it is valid to say LoL players have increased skill at xxx (for instance, teamwork which is a broad category that is largely invisible in SC)
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This is ridiculous (the whole thread)
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I've played Dota 1/2, WoW and SC2 all on a level that is imo just beneath/among the very best players and in all 3 games I have played some top tier players (well SC2 not really top top tier players but I laddered against Grandmaster players at some point  )
I personally think SC2 is BY FAR the most challenging and both mentally and physically demanding game from these 3. LoL, Dota and WoW are all more challenging when played in a team. Coordination is everything in top level clan wars. Playing queue games without voice and only "laddering" with less teamplay involved is really relaxing and isn't even close to the challenge SC2 offers as far as I am concerned, and even in high end teamfights I don't see the teambased games as challenging as Starcraft is. But its not only about the challenge, from my experience the SC2 community in average is just stronger and there are a lot of good players in the Top 1500-2000 of every region. Getting good at Dota or WoW is really easy if you get some advice from good players, even in a pretty short amount of time. Getting good in a team is what you need to put effort into.
I don't really care what other ppl say though, I know my point of view and I know a lot of ppl that agree with me, if someone else thinks LoL is the pinnacle of skill compared to Starcraft (lol) I'm fine with that.
Also skill =! ladder ranking.
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A game that requires no skill such as LoL might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to StarCraft 2 is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic
That's the message I would like to forward to all LoL players. Truth hurts so either suck it up or change to sc2 either way you're fighting a lost battle. ! Compare scene and impact of those 2 games and you will have your clear answer which game provides players with ability to prove a real skill !. RIP LOL
User was warned for this post
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On February 08 2012 06:00 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:21 atmuh wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. beat me to it Really?
Kind of funny really, Recreational players trying to tell someone who's doing this on a professional level how starcraft is really played. Do you guys realize that there are no other professional players in this blog that are arguing with Destiny? It's because he's right. He knows the ins and outs of the competitive scene better than most of us could dream.
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On February 08 2012 07:21 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:00 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 05:21 atmuh wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. beat me to it Really? Kind of funny really, Recreational players trying to tell someone who's doing this on a professional level how starcraft is really played. Do you guys realize that there are no other professional players in this blog that are arguing with Destiny? It's because he's right. He knows the ins and outs of the competitive scene better than most of us could dream.
I did. And he completely ignored my post. I didn't even insult him or offend him, I did bring arguments and did agree with him on certain stuff, but no, he's not "right" with everything he says and lots of progamers would disagree.
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On February 08 2012 07:21 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:00 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 05:21 atmuh wrote:On February 08 2012 05:17 Djzapz wrote:On February 08 2012 05:13 Destiny wrote:On February 08 2012 04:08 rei wrote:On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote:
I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me.
My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested.
We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? Just write everything off I say as QQ and go ask other pros. I've tried to explain it too many times, but if you don't actually play the game at a high level it's too easy to dismiss everything I say. People mostly dismiss what you say because you haven't really played SC2 at a high level so it's hard to take your word that SC2 is easy. beat me to it Really? Kind of funny really, Recreational players trying to tell someone who's doing this on a professional level how starcraft is really played. Do you guys realize that there are no other professional players in this blog that are arguing with Destiny? It's because he's right. He knows the ins and outs of the competitive scene better than most of us could dream.
The reason few people argue is because its pointless.
Casual argument is stupid. Anyone that say LoL is only for casuals are ignorant. It has no anticompetitive elements unlike say brawl or ogermagi.
Easy argument is equally stupid. The simpler a game becomes the more nuances there are and the more unforgiving it becomes.
LoL is a lot less about strategy and more about tactics. It has to do with game design. A game will never be "easier" than another if it has equal or more choices than chess.
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LoL is a terrible game, I won't even get into how shitty the community and pubs are on there. Fuck that. It's more about luck then skill, what skills do you need in LoL honestly? learning to last hit, laying wards, know what all the champion abilitys and shit do, what builds to do etc. Is that really harder then SC2? I have played at least a thosand games of both and the answer is no.
Destiny is just stirring shit up I think, it's all he does.
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On February 08 2012 07:56 Enki wrote:
LoL is a terrible game, I won't even get into how shitty the community and pubs are on there. Fuck that. It's more about luck then skill, what skills do you need in LoL honestly? learning to last hit, laying wards, know what all the champion abilitys and shit do, what builds to do etc. Is that really harder then SC2? I have played at least a thosand games of both and the answer is no.
Destiny is just stirring shit up I think, it's all he does.
I honestly hope this is sarcasm, b/c what you just described takes skill.
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EPT
