EPTI think the worst change for the game was when siege tanks got nerfed versus protoss since Terran doesn't really have any other splash damage to punish a death ball besides emp. Hence TvP is so boring.
Too Much Firepower, Not Enough Stalkers - Page 10
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
I think the worst change for the game was when siege tanks got nerfed versus protoss since Terran doesn't really have any other splash damage to punish a death ball besides emp. Hence TvP is so boring. | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
To date they have done nothing about it and I doubt they will. SC2 is still a very good game but if they addressed these issues it could be a great game. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
I'm pretty sure that Sc2 could be a much better game if blizz decides to just cut the general dps output of the units. | ||
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Vehemus
United States586 Posts
The problem in my opinion isn't how quickly units die or how much damage they do. Players will eventually become good enough that they always know when they can engage and when they can't. And they'll become good enough that they never lose their army because they weren't paying attention for a split second. The amount of focus required to keep your army alive in SC2 is ridiculous, and we all know it feels bad when your army is on attack-move command and you lost half of it in the time it took you to throw down three depots and shift-queue back to your mineral line. That's what separates the great players from those that aren't. Things like fungal growth and forcefield are another issue entirely. I don't disagree that abilities that negate micro don't belong in the game. Even concussive shell, which doesn't negate it entirely, gives the Protoss player the feeling that if he overextends for even one second he could lose a most critical unit and possibly the game. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On January 19 2012 05:12 eloist wrote: Stalkers are so versatile that protoss can remax on just stalkers late game and be fine no matter what. They actually become super difficult for zerg to deal with at this point. Playing Zerg, I eventually get overrun by a ball of stalkers in nearly every game. Don't really have that problem vesus terran because the high damage output marines do have a weakness. Stalkers do not. I think the worst change for the game was when siege tanks got nerfed versus protoss since Terran doesn't really have any other splash damage to punish a death ball besides emp. Hence TvP is so boring. Their weakness is that they don't have a high damage output like marines... | ||
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Kuskinator
United Kingdom43 Posts
On January 19 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote: Their weakness is that they don't have a high damage output like marines... And their advantage is that they are more mobile with higher survivability. "But their weakness is that they cost more!" And their advantage is that they have a larger range "But their weakness is that they don't have an insta-hit weapon!" And their advantage is that they can be warped in anywhere on the battlefield there's a Pylon etc etc | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
All units having a decent amount of health. The races having kind of similar units etc. | ||
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-Switch-
Canada506 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
I agree with you about the zoning, though. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On January 19 2012 05:47 DoubleReed wrote: No offense but this really sounds like you want to play Warcraft 3, not Starcraft 2. Just go and watch some sc bw games and see how better sc2 pace can be. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 19 2012 05:54 Belha wrote: Just go and watch some sc bw games and see how better sc2 pace can be. It doesn't sound like he wants bw at all. It sounds like warcraft 3 with units with more health all rather Protosslike, and the races all having units with identical roles. He clearly doesn't want bw. I mean ffs he says static defense is weak. It's much weaker in bw. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3306 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
The concept of SC2 is quite unforgiving. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
The person who mentioned muta's going from 20->9 in a 20 muta 5 thor fight. Don't forget how quickly that will happen in a game and if you're going mech fast the muta's can then kill off the rest of your army. It's not simply losing 5 thors that's the end of the world it's the fact that you'll have 5, 6, 7 or more tanks mopped up before you can retreat or worse the zerg simply pushes his lings in after you unsiege for cleanup duty. That situation is 100% out of the Terrans hands, he has to hope the zerg makes a mistake and loses his muta's. On the other hand the zerg needs to have 100% perfect control, if he flys his muta clump too close to the thors and loses them all the games over. Both of those situations is no fun for either player. Some people also seem to be think I'm asking for all units to be the same against each other, which I don't mean. I'll give an example, if a Terran makes 4 hellions for map control and spots 7 roaches coming from Zerg he's dead unless he has a bunker or tanks in time. Scouting is pretty good because you're seeing the roaches leave the zergs front door but at this point your infrastructure can only make marines and hellions. If you could have 8 hellions and 3 marines by the time the roaches got to your front door you'd still get totally crushed and lose to the follow up ling runby. Even with reinforcements and defenders advantage you're going to lose the fight badly because hellions are simply garbage against roaches. If the hellions are able to hold with marine support, or at least get the roach army down to a single roach so you can rewall and take that roach with scv's before the lings get there then you can swap your tech up and builds tanks or marauders. That doesn't mean midgame or lategame you'll be using hellions to kill roaches but it does mean you can hold an early allin a litter bit better. Don't forget it goes both ways too, when the hellions drop into your main you'll have more time to react with your lings to stop your entire drone line from getting roasted because the vac avoided your spread ovies (or the Terran killed them with vikings). All the people talking about position is great, and while very true there really isn't anything you can do to hold on if your vikings get taken out in a TvP against colli, or if you have 20 supply in vikings and he just makes templar instead your ground army will be very weak and get stomped out quickly. The ability for some units to absolutely stomp out another army without the direct counter being present is insane. Too many units in the game have this stomp out mechanic which is a big cause of some of the one sided battles we see, even at the pro level. | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
Yes the game has some flaws, particularly regarding certain unit or ability mechanics, but most of the post didn't really talk about the problem at all, and instead went off on tangents about units that weren't actually part of the problem. A post a while back covering potential design issues with SC2 was much better than this. | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
part of BW's charm (to me at least) was there was so many tricks that were new to me as a casual player, watching the koreans use them. The bugs/units don't work as intended.. etc made it fun. Instead of "FIX this bug", people were being creative and it became part of the game. (Why on earth do vultures/units get to jump past minerals? for ex) I don't feel that we should use BW as basis of improving Sc2 now since there are already some really fundamental design changes (Queen/Mule/Chronoboost). I'm all for improving Sc2 balance and gameplay but basing it on BW is not to my preference. even if there is a statistically/proven/agreed/whatever-we-call-it, the most balanced game in the world, there will be people complaining about random stuff.. | ||
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Blasteroids
United States36 Posts
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