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On December 15 2011 02:52 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:35 Shinta) wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 zeehar wrote:On December 15 2011 02:21 Taiki wrote: However, if people actually think that Naniwas behaviour is ok and "professional" western eSports clearly has a long road ahead of itself before eSport ever will be considered main stream. this man speaks the truth. This. No more need be said. Until kids learn what professionalism is, eSports will never go mainstream. ESPN and major sports broadcasting networks will be too scared to host eSports on national and international television, because they will do research and see that eSports in a Westerner's mind is nothing but a game for fun that you play with your friends without any necessary level of conduct or sportsmanship. Don't argue "professional athlete's act in unsportsmanlike ways", because the truth is that they do, but the sport is already considered a professional sport in the eyes of the general public. Not only that, but when a professional athlete DOES act out and fucks up, they are fined a SHIT TON OF MONEY. Tens of thousands of dollars worth of fines for making a big mistake on national television. Unless you want NaNiWa to pay a bunch of money in fines to retain his Code S spot, I suggest you leave it as is and learn to deal with the fact that NaNiWa fucked up big time. On December 15 2011 02:34 TheBanana wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 rhs408 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:58 Chronald wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 rhs408 wrote:
sorry double post
You have watched American Football right? Most games? Players, ALL THE PLAYERS, leave the field BEFORE THE GAME IS OVER. When the results of the match are final, they END THE GAME. Simple as that. To say NaNiwa did something wrong is like telling someone who points out your mistake they are retarded. GOM messed up, NaNiwa called them on it, and GOM lashed out like a child. What about proxy 2-gate? It has a ~0% winrate in GSL, but players still use it. Isn't this the same as preventing interesting games? When I see someone going for this strat I turn the vod off and either watch the next game, or the next match. Guess what? I've never been wrong about guessing who loses, its the proxy-gater. By this same ruling, GOM needs to revoke the seed of each player who has proxy-gated their opponent because it offends the audience. Yes, I watch NFL games every Sunday/Monday/Thursday. Players don't leave the field in the middle of the 4th quarter when they are losing 45-0 (which is what Naniwa did). They play the game out. They only leave the field when the game actually is over (team which is losing has no opportunity to run more plays before time expires). And anyone who doesn't play with their full effort during those last minutes will surely get benched for the next game(s), if not released from the team. And worker rush + a-move with hands on chin and not using keyboard =/= proxy 2-gate. About as unprofessional as you can get when it comes to playing SC2 at a live, televised tournament. You don't make any sense, and the last part of your first paragraph is just lies. One of the most succesful and talented players in the NFL of all time is notorious for his lack of effort, with no consequence to his starting job. Also in the NFL it's frowned upon if the winning team keeps trying in the 4th while being ahead 45-0. It's "running up the score", "unsportsmanlike" and "unprofessional". I find it silly, but it still is the reaction it gets. If you follow the NFL you should know that. Also if a team is too far behind even the losing team is seen taking a knee to end the game. LOL NO. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS FALSE INFORMATION. How the hell can you be so stupid... When a team is winning 45-0, it's not frowned upon at all for them to keep trying. THAT'S THEIR ******* JOB YOU *****. They get paid MILLIONS to play a game. and NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when a team is losing 0-45, they NEVER just take a knee and give up. Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING PAID MILLIONS TO PLAY THE ******* GAME!!!! When players or teams stop trying, THAT'S when they get criticized. Don't be such an ignorant person ffs... Yeah, sure, it's not common knowledge for any NFL-fan at all, I made it all up. I probably wrote this wikipedia-page too right?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_up_the_score
Read the very article you linked....
Consequences of running up the score:
The most common negative consequences of running up the score are injuries to a game's starting players, lack of experience for the non-starting players on the team, and opposing teams remembering a shellacking and plotting revenge in a future meeting.
Running up the score is considered poor sportsmanship by many fans, players, and coaches, albeit with differences in opinion on how big an insult it is.[1][2][3] Allegations of poor sportsmanship are often brought up soon after a team scores multiple times near the end of a one-sided match.[4] However, Florida State coach Bobby Bowden contended that it was not his job to call plays inconsistent with his regular offense. He felt that the prevention of further scoring was the responsibility of the opposing team's defense.[5]
In other words, it's not really bad sportsmanship. People who don't fully understand the sport think that it is a form of bullying if a better team completely pummels a lesser team. The fact of the matter is, this is professional sports. If a team is better than a lesser team, it is their paid job to pummel them as much as possible. The only reason you would not continue to play your hardest, is because it is a waste of your effort, and a risk to your players. At this time, if a team feels this way, they will put in their lesser lineup in an attempt to win the game anyways, while not putting themselves at risk.
Beating the shit out of your opponent is never unsportsmanlike.
Seriously, I just read even more of that "Running up the score" article, and it even states reasons why Running up the score is acceptable. You need to use your eyes and brain kid.
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United States22154 Posts
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Just a quick thought: Jjakji and Leenock went to 6 games. Jjakji had the series won in the sixth game, 4-2. So why didn't they make them play the 7th game? One could argue that we paid for a best of seven, not a first-to-four.
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On December 15 2011 03:06 Tump wrote:
gom pulling a kespa, what a shame.
stop asking players to play games for nothing so you can hype up and profit from some meaningless rivalry game (naniwa and nestea).
gom just showing their true colors here, and its about greed.
Well imo they should play those games if they get payed for just participating.
Agree on everything else.
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Sorry I do not have the time to read all the post and i stopped watching starcraft since the last MLG. So what happen was:
1- Naniwa vs Someone
2- Naniwa is already out of GSL (group stage?)
3- Naniwa did a worker rush?
4- Naniwa loses his S code seed?
If so although Naniwa was stupid, i find the GSL was alot more idiot.
In the last world football cup, Russia needed some one to play 140% against another country. But since that country was already out, they offered a mercedes car to the players if the won the game.
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It seems ridiculous how many people are basically agreeing that its o.k for the players to piss on the money the viewers pay to see the tournament. And how its o.k from a player to not suck it up for fifteen minutes for the fans to enjoy. In the end the players play to make money. But the money don't appear from thin air. The money are actually your money. The money you pay to go in the money pool and in tournament organization.
Gom has a limit of how much they can do and enforce with the format of the tournament only. There are other rules that should be enforced too. So it's unreasonable to keep saying the format of the tournament is bad and bears all the fault and that Naniwa behaved properly.
I can only say I'm less of a Naniwa fan after this mess and I like Gom more than before.
I mean, what would happen if you would have a contract to provide services/entertainment/etc. and wouldn't do your job because you're not in the mood to? Basic ethics question for any kind of job out there. No matter how unpleasant or badly payed. Because if you don't like it, it is your responsibility to give it up and not waste other peoples time and money.
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On December 14 2011 19:04 Remb wrote:
I hate Naniwa. He is immature, spoiled and entitled. Separately GOM's action is equally unethical as it did not break any rules. I am angered by Naniwa and equally angered by GOM's reaction. It is despicable on both sides.
I feel like I lose interest in the legitimacy of GSL because GOM chose an easy cop-out to make its Korean viewers happy. The Blizzard Cup and the GSL Code S are separate entities and Naniwa broke none of the rules of play.
the best post in this thread by far in my eyes. I agree 100% sir
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On December 15 2011 03:10 RHMVNovus wrote:
Just a quick thought: Jjakji and Leenock went to 6 games. Jjakji had the series won in the sixth game, 4-2. So why didn't they make them play the 7th game? One could argue that we paid for a best of seven, not a first-to-four.
best-of-x series always end when one player cannot win. it's the fundamental concept of such a format.
round robin series, by nature, continue until every player has played an equal amount of games.
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So happy this happened. Naniwa is a joke, he has been completely disrespectful at every tournament I've seen him in. The whole MLG mess with Nestea really put it over the top for me, this needed to happy to fix up his attitude towards the entire community.
If Gom says get in there and play your god damn heart for 10 minutes because we are supporting your ass to be here, you better well do it. It's your job.
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"amateur prize money hunter" they give NaNiwa the boot for being disrespectful and then they say such disrespecting things? How retarded and hypocritical, I certainly won't be paying for a GSL pass this year, they can forget about that if they just want to be able to disrespect people like they're perfect.
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On December 15 2011 03:10 RHMVNovus wrote:
Just a quick thought: Jjakji and Leenock went to 6 games. Jjakji had the series won in the sixth game, 4-2. So why didn't they make them play the 7th game? One could argue that we paid for a best of seven, not a first-to-four.
Thank god. This is like what me and other people were thinking but couldn't explain. You didn't pay to watch Naniwa play 4 games, you paid to watch a round robin to figure out who advanced to the next round, just like when you pay to watch a tournament, you dont pay to watch MC or MVP or whoever play 5 games ever round, you pay to watch a first-to-3-wins, to see who advances to the next round. People are saying, "well the game shouldnt have been played, but it was so it was naniwa's responsibility". No. If in every tournament, you made them play 5 full games, the games after someone won 3 games already would be idiotic.
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I was expecting GOM to do something like this sooner or later. Especially after Naniwa said in the pre-Blizzard Cup interview that he only cared about Code S ( "most prestigious" ) and that the Blizzard Cup was just another tournament for him.
I won't watch GSL until Nani is back which might be never, so that's it. I can't support a tournament that is so childishly managed. I got MLG, NASL, IPL, and DH to keep me entertained.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
I think everybody that thinks what naniwa did is ok because of stupid format or whatever are fucking retarded. Tournament and format aside - these progamers play 50 fucking games a day that has absolutely no value but practice and he chooses not to play one game vs great opponent and use it as practice if he allready cant advance in tournament. This is just totally emotional and childish behaviour. He just needs to grow up, he is holding to his wounded childish emotional being like nobody! GROW THE FUCK UP! big fan of naniwa, hahaha.
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On December 15 2011 03:15 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:10 RHMVNovus wrote:
Just a quick thought: Jjakji and Leenock went to 6 games. Jjakji had the series won in the sixth game, 4-2. So why didn't they make them play the 7th game? One could argue that we paid for a best of seven, not a first-to-four. best-of-x series always end when one player cannot win. it's the fundamental concept of such a format. round robin series, by nature, continue until every player has played an equal amount of games.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international/leagues/449_Liquibition:_Broodsport
Played out to 7. See? Best of Seven, played out. Round Robins can also be played out.
Or both can be cut short when they cease to serve a tangible purpose.
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This is absolutely and irrevocably preposterous. It is common knowledge that we, as Foreigners, are entitled to everything. Those so-called "Koreans" ought to make an effort and adapt to our superior culture and our advanced way of thinking; they ought to bow and apologize and shine our shoes or else we will boycott the Starcraft scene and deprive them of our amazingly talented and authentic professional gamers. I hereby ask that GOMTV gives TT1 a seed in the ro4 of Code S, and I demand that Mr. Chae flies all the way to where I live then gives me a fruit basket as well as a kiss on a cheek.
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so....he decided to thow away a game? is that not his choice?
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United States32935 Posts
Closed, 55 pages of negativity based on an incorrect quote.
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EPT
