|
On December 15 2011 01:55 Sweepstakes wrote:
People need to ask themselves these questions:
1. Did you enjoy watching Naniwa vs. Nestea?
2. Would you want this to happen again?
Assuming that you answered "No" and "No", you should be grateful that GOM did what it did.
I know from watching the game myself, I feel cheated and never want to see this happen again. Naniwa still doesn't know the meaning of the word "professional". Just blatant disrespect for his fans, his competitor, GOM, Quantic, and their sponsors.
I guarantee that if he does this again he will be teamless for a long time.
1. I dont care
2. I dont care
as the match is meaningless, I closed the stream before the match as I asssume GomTV would just cancel the match like they did for up and down
what annoys me most is how GomTV can twist the rules as they want, they play the meaningless matches in blizzard cup and not in up/ down, they give code S in MLG best finishing non code S player except that is Naniwa, and even the Blizzard cup itself, I dont really understand how they can suddenly add gomtv #4, #5 instead of the best finishing player who's not already earned a ticket in respective tourney (namely Sen , XiGua)
|
On December 15 2011 02:13 Chronald wrote:
Did NaNi actually offend you as a fan? I guess if you take offense to something like this you simply don't understand high level strategy games, and I can respect that. However, in a forum full of people who claim to understand strategy and high level though, to see this much blind rage is saddening. It isn't like he threw a match in the finals, or planned this ahead of time with NesTea (which would have made this match FIXING, not THROWING), all he did was not play in a joke game.
It was not a joke game, and I was offended. We paid for those matches, and he didn't play. It was a very interesting match, even if it was nothing more than a show match given their history from last MLG. We were robbed of that.
Imagine if every NFL team who didn't make the playoffs just threw the rest of their game. It would ruin football. That isn't sportsman like and it isn't okay.
|
On December 15 2011 02:19 canikizu wrote:
And you know what, the first time I watch it when I came to America, I thought that was stupid, unprofessional.
I guess now it's time for some people to taste that feeling.
this post does not make sense at all.
what made you think it was "unprofessional"? do you even know what the word "professionalism" means? it means to do your given work to your fullest ability. these guys (nfl players) are paid to do what they do, the vast majority do their job while giving 100% of their effort. the same applies to any sport.
|
On December 15 2011 02:01 Chronald wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:56 makk wrote:
The premier league also has pointless matches. If a team is already guaranteed to be regulated they still play the remainder of their games even if they mean nothing. They don't just go out and kick the ball into their own net or something.
What Naniwa did was unprofessional and deserves to be punished (imo) Of those meaningless matches, how many are actually interesting to watch? How many actually get watched by anyone except die-hard fans? Do we really want to copy silly formats of antiquated sports? No, I would rather GOM fess up and promise to not use a useless-match-inducing format again.
You are wrong. Many of those games are watched nonetheless because these are still proffesional atheletes at work and it's enjoyfull to watch. Those matches, I might say, are most likely watched more by people who don't care rather than die-hard fans.
The fact that he had to play a meaningless match and didn't want to makes him, imo, even worse than a little child, he should go back to EU/NA where ever he is from and play what he wants to. I'm suprised he's still in a team...
|
On December 15 2011 02:04 darkhorz wrote:
I am not looking to defend Naniwa here. I don't appreciate what he did. It's not a big deal though, in my humble opinion, as the outcome of the game was inconsequential.
I must admit I find it extremely unprofessional to take steps as to revoke a seed from Naniwa with the grounds of him displaying disrespect and then continue to suggest he's an amateur prize hunter. That is double standards and the sign of an organisation getting carried away by simple controversy that has received more attention than it really deserves.
They are acting more disgraceful than Naniwa did.
People has paid to see all these games and Naniwa is paid for playing out all his games. Naniwa has agreed to participate in the turnament, thus playing out all his games should be the obvious thing to do as a professional gamer. The people who pay to watch these games are fans who in turn let progamers make a living of gaming.
If you pay for 6 batteries, you expect to get 6 batteries, not 5. If you pay for a season of games from GOM, you have the right to see every single game played out in the VODs, not people throwing games (because they apparently don't matter).
Naniwa doesn't have a seed, he's being considered for one and throwing a match clearly according to GOM means that you're not worthy of getting a seed. Mr. Chae acted a bit unprofessional and said something he clearly shouldn't have. However, if people actually think that Naniwas behaviour is ok and "professional" western eSports clearly has a long road ahead of itself before eSport ever will be considered main stream.
|
On December 15 2011 02:20 Mity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:02 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
100000000% the correct decision. Naniwa doesn't deserve to be a pro gamer unless he changes his ways.
Though the format is also partly at fault, it doesn't matter, Naniwa is a selfish arrogant bastard who doesn't give a shit about fans, about esports, about honour. Just prize money. Fuck him. He was kicked out of his home at 16 for playing Warcraft III too much and had to stay at a friends, but then never gave up on his passion and dreams. He doesn't deserve to be a progamer because he doesn't want to waste time with pointless matches that don't mean anything? If you want to watch matches that don't matter then go watch someone's stream.
He deserves success in gaming, but he does not deserve to reap the rewards of the esports community when he actively seeks to damage it just cuz he doesn't have a personal stake in something.
|
What really bothers me about this, is that this is the same garbage we went through when Painuser threw his matches at NASL. And apparently people didn't learn.
This cannot happen if E-sports is going to be considered legitimate. People tune in to see these matches, and if they are just thrown, it is going to alienate the causal fan.
This generally doesn't happen in the NFL, NBA, or any other major sport, and when it does there is a high price to pay for the players/coaches that do so. The same should happen here. This sport is about the fans first not the players. The fans watch the players and provide them with a living with the expectation that they will receive quality entertainment.
If the fans do not receive quality entertainment, then the players will have to make a living doing something else, and we no sport.
I am proud that GOM did the right thing.
|
On December 15 2011 02:21 Taiki wrote: However, if people actually think that Naniwas behaviour is ok and "professional" western eSports clearly has a long road ahead of itself before eSport ever will be considered main stream.
this man speaks the truth.
|
If you pay for 6 batteries, you expect to get 6 batteries, not 5. If you pay for a season of games from GOM, you have the right to see every single game played out in the VODs, not people throwing games (because they apparently don't matter).
Thats a terrible analogy. It's more like if you pay for 6 batteries and they all don't work. Just like people didn't pay for 6 matches that didn't mean anything at all, you get that for free on streams.
|
It said in certain GSL and indeed many other formal rule listings for major gaming events that disrespect against the crowd or opposing players is seen as a violation. By probe rushing he is respecting, not disrespecting Nestea's drone control.
P.S. This p/^^#d me right the f#&% off. This should never be allowed to happen and if I or if a group of us has any power we should force GSL to change their decision and in doing so help change the lacking format of the tourn.!!!
|
lol. This isn't even a punishment... You give a baby a toy, the baby acts out, you take the toy away from the baby. Sure it's punishment, but it's not like you're giving the toy away so the baby can never play with it again.
NaNiWa was going to very nicely be given a free Code S spot, just because GOM thought it would be awesome to have a NaNi vs NesTea rivalry, plus NaNiWa is a really good player.
NaNiWa fucked up and completely disgraced himself, his team, and his fans by showing a ridiculously horrible showing, and refusing to play a game against NesTea on live Television.
imo he should be banned from GSL for several months, not just stripped of the Code S gift he was going to be given.
|
[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 02:21 Taiki wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 02:04 darkhorz wrote:
If you pay for 6 batteries, you expect to get 6 batteries, not 5. If you pay for a season of games from GOM, you have the right to see every single game played out in the VODs, not people throwing games (because they apparently don't matter).
.[/QUOTE]
So say I paid for the previous GSL season and the up and down matches come. Now theres potentially what like 9 or 10 games to be played but usually they only play 6 or 7 because people get eliminated (just like Nani and Nestea were)...
|
....What? I'm actually really surprised so many people are backing Naniwa on this one. IMO, that's just plain poor sportsmanship on his part. No, the match did not matter for the tourney results, but it DID matter to the viewers, and it SHOULD matter to Naniwa for his own pride. Simply put, he was being a big baby and disrespected the audience as well as NesTea.
|
On December 15 2011 02:25 Mity wrote:Show nested quote +If you pay for 6 batteries, you expect to get 6 batteries, not 5. If you pay for a season of games from GOM, you have the right to see every single game played out in the VODs, not people throwing games (because they apparently don't matter). Thats a terrible analogy. It's more like if you pay for 6 batteries and they all don't work. Just like people didn't pay for 6 matches that didn't mean anything at all, you get that for free on streams.
The point still stands. People have paid to watch be able to watch every single VOD played out. Naniwa has been paid for playing out his matches. There is something wrong if the customers aren't getting what they paid for whatever reason.
Also, people live in different time zones. If I hadn't been sick this week, I wouldn't have been able to watch a single game game if I didn't pay for it.
|
question : did finishing 4th or 5th in the group have any prize money?
|
On December 15 2011 02:14 rhs408 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:58 Chronald wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 rhs408 wrote:
sorry double post
You have watched American Football right? Most games? Players, ALL THE PLAYERS, leave the field BEFORE THE GAME IS OVER. When the results of the match are final, they END THE GAME. Simple as that. To say NaNiwa did something wrong is like telling someone who points out your mistake they are retarded. GOM messed up, NaNiwa called them on it, and GOM lashed out like a child. What about proxy 2-gate? It has a ~0% winrate in GSL, but players still use it. Isn't this the same as preventing interesting games? When I see someone going for this strat I turn the vod off and either watch the next game, or the next match. Guess what? I've never been wrong about guessing who loses, its the proxy-gater. By this same ruling, GOM needs to revoke the seed of each player who has proxy-gated their opponent because it offends the audience. Yes, I watch NFL games every Sunday/Monday/Thursday. Players don't leave the field in the middle of the 4th quarter when they are losing 45-0 (which is what Naniwa did). They play the game out. They only leave the field when the game actually is over (team which is losing has no opportunity to run more plays before time expires). And anyone who doesn't play with their full effort during those last minutes will surely get benched for the next game(s), if not released from the team. And worker rush + a-move with hands on chin and not using keyboard =/= proxy 2-gate. About as unprofessional as you can get when it comes to playing SC2 at a live, televised tournament.
You don't make any sense, and the last part of your first paragraph is just lies.
One of the most succesful and talented players in the NFL of all time is notorious for his lack of effort, with no consequence to his starting job.
Also in the NFL it's frowned upon if the winning team keeps trying in the 4th while being ahead 45-0. It's "running up the score", "unsportsmanlike" and "unprofessional".
I find it silly, but it still is the reaction it gets. If you follow the NFL you should know that.
Also if a team is too far behind even the losing team is seen taking a knee to end the game.
|
On December 15 2011 02:25 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:21 Taiki wrote: However, if people actually think that Naniwas behaviour is ok and "professional" western eSports clearly has a long road ahead of itself before eSport ever will be considered main stream. this man speaks the truth.
This.
No more need be said.
Until kids learn what professionalism is, eSports will never go mainstream.
ESPN and major sports broadcasting networks will be too scared to host eSports on national and international television, because they will do research and see that eSports in a Westerner's mind is nothing but a game for fun that you play with your friends without any necessary level of conduct or sportsmanship.
Don't argue "professional athlete's act in unsportsmanlike ways", because the truth is that they do, but the sport is already considered a professional sport in the eyes of the general public. Not only that, but when a professional athlete DOES act out and fucks up, they are fined a SHIT TON OF MONEY. Tens of thousands of dollars worth of fines for making a big mistake on national television.
Unless you want NaNiWa to pay a bunch of money in fines to retain his Code S spot, I suggest you leave it as is and learn to deal with the fact that NaNiWa fucked up big time.
On December 15 2011 02:34 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:14 rhs408 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:58 Chronald wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 rhs408 wrote:
sorry double post
You have watched American Football right? Most games? Players, ALL THE PLAYERS, leave the field BEFORE THE GAME IS OVER. When the results of the match are final, they END THE GAME. Simple as that. To say NaNiwa did something wrong is like telling someone who points out your mistake they are retarded. GOM messed up, NaNiwa called them on it, and GOM lashed out like a child. What about proxy 2-gate? It has a ~0% winrate in GSL, but players still use it. Isn't this the same as preventing interesting games? When I see someone going for this strat I turn the vod off and either watch the next game, or the next match. Guess what? I've never been wrong about guessing who loses, its the proxy-gater. By this same ruling, GOM needs to revoke the seed of each player who has proxy-gated their opponent because it offends the audience. Yes, I watch NFL games every Sunday/Monday/Thursday. Players don't leave the field in the middle of the 4th quarter when they are losing 45-0 (which is what Naniwa did). They play the game out. They only leave the field when the game actually is over (team which is losing has no opportunity to run more plays before time expires). And anyone who doesn't play with their full effort during those last minutes will surely get benched for the next game(s), if not released from the team. And worker rush + a-move with hands on chin and not using keyboard =/= proxy 2-gate. About as unprofessional as you can get when it comes to playing SC2 at a live, televised tournament. You don't make any sense, and the last part of your first paragraph is just lies. One of the most succesful and talented players in the NFL of all time is notorious for his lack of effort, with no consequence to his starting job. Also in the NFL it's frowned upon if the winning team keeps trying in the 4th while being ahead 45-0. It's "running up the score", "unsportsmanlike" and "unprofessional". I find it silly, but it still is the reaction it gets. If you follow the NFL you should know that. Also if a team is too far behind even the losing team is seen taking a knee to end the game.
LOL NO. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS FALSE INFORMATION. How the hell can you be so stupid... When a team is winning 45-0, it's not frowned upon at all for them to keep trying. THAT'S THEIR ******* JOB YOU *****. They get paid MILLIONS to play a game.
and NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when a team is losing 0-45, they NEVER just take a knee and give up. Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING PAID MILLIONS TO PLAY THE ******* GAME!!!!
When players or teams stop trying, THAT'S when they get criticized. Don't be such an ignorant person ffs...
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On December 15 2011 02:25 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:21 Taiki wrote: However, if people actually think that Naniwas behaviour is ok and "professional" western eSports clearly has a long road ahead of itself before eSport ever will be considered main stream. this man speaks the truth.
Im wondering about that too.
Imo naniwa made a mistake. No question about that. But, GOM could have handled that much more professional too..
Mr. Chae's statement, assuming it was translated correctly, is plain ridiculous and way more amateurish than what naniwa did.
For naniwa i really hope he gets over this soon and starts to own again. In code S.
|
link/vid to naniwa's actions that got him banned?
why wasn't this added to OP?
|
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
What about dropping mules during the GSL november finals Jakji vs Leenock? That is offending the opponent, no?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
